Emirates DECs
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: HERE AND THERE
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cīmon guys!
Easy on 411...after all weīre on Holydays time...
The hardest you beat him, the more he certainly LOL. How can you be so naive? His provocative (but more realistic than generally supposed) posts has the main purpose of make fun from all that political correctness...playing the role of kind of a Devilīs advocate.
And, letīs face the facts: the ball now is on managementīs hands. For sad and unfair it could mean to all of us.
Easy on 411...after all weīre on Holydays time...
The hardest you beat him, the more he certainly LOL. How can you be so naive? His provocative (but more realistic than generally supposed) posts has the main purpose of make fun from all that political correctness...playing the role of kind of a Devilīs advocate.
And, letīs face the facts: the ball now is on managementīs hands. For sad and unfair it could mean to all of us.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spot on fullforward...devils advocate.
Now of course the EK management could have avoided all this unpleasantness by doing their hiring just slightly differently, for example, the way SV did during the very early eighties, when 747's were added to the fleet.
At that time SV was operating 16 TriStars, and when the 747's arrived, all of the TriStar Captains/First Officers/Flight Engineers were move up accordingly, which left a rather large void on the TriStar fleet.
Their solution was to hire direct entry Captains and First Officers (as well as Flight Engineers) and train these folks on the Lockheed equipment.
This has the advantage of...
Having the aircraft operated their way,
Allowed those already there to move up to senior equipment,
And, filled the seats with previously qualified pilots who had a proven record of accomplishment.
An added advantage (from my perspective) was that SV did not allow any military experience into the equation (except for Professional Flight Engineers).
Captains hired directly onto the TriStar.
First Officers hired, with no promises whatsoever of being upgraded to Command (altho a few were, ten years later after moving to the RHS of the 747 later on, after the TriStar).
No hard feelings...no unkept promises, and rather large tax-free paychecks for all.
EK could have done the same, but apparently choose not to do so. Now EK management(?) is in the untenable position of having to deal with guys who have been lied to....never a satisfactory arrangement.
Now of course the EK management could have avoided all this unpleasantness by doing their hiring just slightly differently, for example, the way SV did during the very early eighties, when 747's were added to the fleet.
At that time SV was operating 16 TriStars, and when the 747's arrived, all of the TriStar Captains/First Officers/Flight Engineers were move up accordingly, which left a rather large void on the TriStar fleet.
Their solution was to hire direct entry Captains and First Officers (as well as Flight Engineers) and train these folks on the Lockheed equipment.
This has the advantage of...
Having the aircraft operated their way,
Allowed those already there to move up to senior equipment,
And, filled the seats with previously qualified pilots who had a proven record of accomplishment.
An added advantage (from my perspective) was that SV did not allow any military experience into the equation (except for Professional Flight Engineers).
Captains hired directly onto the TriStar.
First Officers hired, with no promises whatsoever of being upgraded to Command (altho a few were, ten years later after moving to the RHS of the 747 later on, after the TriStar).
No hard feelings...no unkept promises, and rather large tax-free paychecks for all.
EK could have done the same, but apparently choose not to do so. Now EK management(?) is in the untenable position of having to deal with guys who have been lied to....never a satisfactory arrangement.
Last edited by 411A; 23rd Dec 2003 at 07:36.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: u.a.e
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ek managment in the moment is like a pilot who is not ahead of his own aircraft because someone else (the goverment) is pushing the trottle forward.
the chairmen had in the past years, because of the aviation situation, plenty of opportunitys to shop and buy cheap a/c all over the place.
unfortunately our top guys were afraid to speak up and stopp that process for a while in order to catch up with recruiting and tranining.
i believe, even if we would have, according to managment, enough "suitable" f/oīs available for upgrade, even then the company would be unable to cope with the present situation.
there is just not enough time to crew our aircrafts.
on top all this restrictions they put on their own upgradings.
why do we need 3 years in the rh seat?
that started the whole misery in the beginning. 2 years would be more than reasonable to get to know the airline and their ways of doing things.
it is just a fixing that is going on, a reacting to the undoubtly impressive expansion. it is not an acting we would need.
on top the way they play the so called crm to us.
it is very sad to see that some of our managers have absolutely no proper way of communicating with us.
taking the whole situation, they could have told us they whole deal upfront before we read it on websites or get it from forums.
it still would have had quite an impact on us, but i am sure a different one.
it sadens me to experience this relationsship with the company and i as well thought that that would be the last company i would work for.
so in the monent our 777 f/oīs are stuck because the next 777 come in 2005. no crosstraining upgrading allowed.
would it help if 777 captains volunteer on the airbus now?
it could reduce the number of DEC or even open up DEC on the 777. i donīt know.
any thoughts?
the chairmen had in the past years, because of the aviation situation, plenty of opportunitys to shop and buy cheap a/c all over the place.
unfortunately our top guys were afraid to speak up and stopp that process for a while in order to catch up with recruiting and tranining.
i believe, even if we would have, according to managment, enough "suitable" f/oīs available for upgrade, even then the company would be unable to cope with the present situation.
there is just not enough time to crew our aircrafts.
on top all this restrictions they put on their own upgradings.
why do we need 3 years in the rh seat?
that started the whole misery in the beginning. 2 years would be more than reasonable to get to know the airline and their ways of doing things.
it is just a fixing that is going on, a reacting to the undoubtly impressive expansion. it is not an acting we would need.
on top the way they play the so called crm to us.
it is very sad to see that some of our managers have absolutely no proper way of communicating with us.
taking the whole situation, they could have told us they whole deal upfront before we read it on websites or get it from forums.
it still would have had quite an impact on us, but i am sure a different one.
it sadens me to experience this relationsship with the company and i as well thought that that would be the last company i would work for.
so in the monent our 777 f/oīs are stuck because the next 777 come in 2005. no crosstraining upgrading allowed.
would it help if 777 captains volunteer on the airbus now?
it could reduce the number of DEC or even open up DEC on the 777. i donīt know.
any thoughts?
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: DXB
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys
I know this is slightly off thread but I have been invited for an interview (F/O not DEC) at the end of January and not being a young whipper snapper any more what is (by general consensus) a realistic time to the left hand seat?
Also, judging by the emails that I have received from the recruitment department asking how much notice I need to give in days(!), I would say that they may be a bit desperate. Are things really that bad? Is it worth going?
Cheers for now.
I know this is slightly off thread but I have been invited for an interview (F/O not DEC) at the end of January and not being a young whipper snapper any more what is (by general consensus) a realistic time to the left hand seat?
Also, judging by the emails that I have received from the recruitment department asking how much notice I need to give in days(!), I would say that they may be a bit desperate. Are things really that bad? Is it worth going?
Cheers for now.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: HERE AND THERE
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Scud!
Congrats and good luck on the interview.
Well, considering the thousands of previous posts, one can assume that nobody is sure about nothing on EK, except the fact this is a fast growing airline.
Do your search and you will assume 4-5 years is a good and realistic bet.
Happy 2004!
Congrats and good luck on the interview.
Well, considering the thousands of previous posts, one can assume that nobody is sure about nothing on EK, except the fact this is a fast growing airline.
Do your search and you will assume 4-5 years is a good and realistic bet.
Happy 2004!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sheraton, Hilton....
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scud,
when you join EK will hire about 100 DEC and you will have about 500 F/O's in front of you? make it min 7 but more realistic 8+ years.
if you would have joined 2 years ago it would have been a different story.
Good luck
when you join EK will hire about 100 DEC and you will have about 500 F/O's in front of you? make it min 7 but more realistic 8+ years.
if you would have joined 2 years ago it would have been a different story.
Good luck
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Sharp End.
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have just joined EK having come from a reasonable charter job in northern europe, I would think very carefully about coming out here as the grass definately isn't greener on the other side.
You do get to see some interesting places aroung the world, but as with most airlines the management don't give a toss about you, and Dubai is a very expensive place to live in, and pay rises are non existent.
The place is full of people from the sub continent who basically hate you, and to say that there are some vain western expats around here would be a huge understatement, do not expect to feel welcom when you arrive.
However the weather is nice, good food, interesting places to visit and a few other things, BUT choose carefully.
.....i'll have a lie down now.
You do get to see some interesting places aroung the world, but as with most airlines the management don't give a toss about you, and Dubai is a very expensive place to live in, and pay rises are non existent.
The place is full of people from the sub continent who basically hate you, and to say that there are some vain western expats around here would be a huge understatement, do not expect to feel welcom when you arrive.
However the weather is nice, good food, interesting places to visit and a few other things, BUT choose carefully.
.....i'll have a lie down now.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: here
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scudrunner, don't even comtemplate Emirates. Its possibly the worst thing I have ever done and now find it very hard to go anywhere else. I came from LHS job in the UK, was promised the world like many of my friends and then had the rules changed. You can't negotiate with management it is a 'take it or leave' attitude and crisis management as well.
The best thing you can do is stay where you are, no matter how bad it seems it is better than EK.
The best thing you can do is stay where you are, no matter how bad it seems it is better than EK.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Infinity and Beyond
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nicely put mini cooper...
Scud, only come here if your current outfit is going down the toilet and there is no, zero, nada for you else to choose.
Worst choice I ever got conned into...
Scud, only come here if your current outfit is going down the toilet and there is no, zero, nada for you else to choose.
Worst choice I ever got conned into...
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DD. Three questions? I'll do my best...
1. Yes
2. Easier to ask where are my LEAST favourite layovers! Everybody seems to be avoiding Accra - no one wants to contract malaria for some unknown reason
. Casablanca, despite the romance is not popular amongst the expats...
Large and expanding route network. It's not hard to bid for and get your preferred destinations, within reason.
3. 777 vs Airbus? Been done to death already. 777 guys like the 777, Airbus guys like the airbus. There are exceptions to prove this rule!
Now I have a question for you. Why, given the subject of this thread, are you interested in Emirates?
Compliments of the season.
UAE
1. Yes
2. Easier to ask where are my LEAST favourite layovers! Everybody seems to be avoiding Accra - no one wants to contract malaria for some unknown reason
. Casablanca, despite the romance is not popular amongst the expats...Large and expanding route network. It's not hard to bid for and get your preferred destinations, within reason.
3. 777 vs Airbus? Been done to death already. 777 guys like the 777, Airbus guys like the airbus. There are exceptions to prove this rule!
Now I have a question for you. Why, given the subject of this thread, are you interested in Emirates?
Compliments of the season.
UAE
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Applying the same logic, those applicants who are successful will of course forfeit their right to complain when said management duly turn around and screw them at some future date!
Most of the anger around here is not directed at fellow operators...
Most of the anger around here is not directed at fellow operators...
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Backwater,
I fly for a US Major and have always been an airline afficianado. I have seen your airplanes at Gatwick, and have always wondered about the lifestyle in Dubai etc... Mainly airline curiosity. Thank you for the reply and I will probably ask more questions eventually.
I fly for a US Major and have always been an airline afficianado. I have seen your airplanes at Gatwick, and have always wondered about the lifestyle in Dubai etc... Mainly airline curiosity. Thank you for the reply and I will probably ask more questions eventually.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, what an eye opener this has been after a month or so absence off Pprune.
I'm currently at Air Canada (320 FO) with an interview date early in the new year. Sounds like I should hang tough and wait for AC to come out of CCAA before deciding to move the family to Dubai (assuming a successful interview
) based on the general feeling i.e. DECs etc.
Any more insight appreciated!
Cheers.
I'm currently at Air Canada (320 FO) with an interview date early in the new year. Sounds like I should hang tough and wait for AC to come out of CCAA before deciding to move the family to Dubai (assuming a successful interview
) based on the general feeling i.e. DECs etc.Any more insight appreciated!
Cheers.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sandy beach
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
320,
I would say in this relative world, most do not realize how bad things are at AC. I would most definitely be packing my bags for the Sand, especially as an FO on the 320.
Wouldn't even blink
Good luck
I would say in this relative world, most do not realize how bad things are at AC. I would most definitely be packing my bags for the Sand, especially as an FO on the 320.
Wouldn't even blink
Good luck
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello Gentleman,
I have received a DEC hold pool email back in October. I have not as yet received an interview offer. I am reading with interest of course, all of the comments on this thread.
I have always assumed that these types of airlines hiring ex-pat crews would basi-cally do what they want, or need to do. This is why I applied for a DEC position back in July of 2003, prior to the announcement for DEC positions. When I went back a few months later and filled in the flight times fully, I received the hold pool email.
I am 330 rated and current, also 3000 pic 320, along with various other narrowbody airliner PIC time, along with some FO time.
Are DECs looked down upon for taking the job? It is not a pilots fault that the situa-tion has evolved the way it has here. People simply want to rise to an opportunity.
I have received a DEC hold pool email back in October. I have not as yet received an interview offer. I am reading with interest of course, all of the comments on this thread.
I have always assumed that these types of airlines hiring ex-pat crews would basi-cally do what they want, or need to do. This is why I applied for a DEC position back in July of 2003, prior to the announcement for DEC positions. When I went back a few months later and filled in the flight times fully, I received the hold pool email.
I am 330 rated and current, also 3000 pic 320, along with various other narrowbody airliner PIC time, along with some FO time.
Are DECs looked down upon for taking the job? It is not a pilots fault that the situa-tion has evolved the way it has here. People simply want to rise to an opportunity.