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Collective Colour Vision Thread 4

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Collective Colour Vision Thread 4

Old 25th Jun 2013, 18:44
  #241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 319
Well my CPL is also a PPL - it lists CPL(A) and PPL(A) in the box marked "Title of Licence, date of initial issue and country code".

I will be booking my next medical shortly - it will be interesting to see what they will give me this time around.

I am somewhat gobsmacked that the CAA medicos are prepared to put the CVD restrictions onto a class one when this is very clearly prohibited under part med. I suppose we should welcome such rebelliousness, but it does make you wonder what is going on.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 20:49
  #242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
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I am going to place for information that came my way, regarding CAD and just for your information,

There is no reason why the CAD test at City should be different to the one at Gatwick, thresholds might differ by +/-10%.

The CAD test offers two quick screening versions, one that screens for normal colour vision and one that screens for minimum red/green colour vision requirements for a specific occupational environment. The screening versions do not quantify the severity of colour vision loss.

The full CAD, takes approx. 4mins to test for yellow/blue and ~9mins to test for red/green colour vision. This produces an accurate measure of YB and RG colour vision and makes possible a graphical representation of the results.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 22:42
  #243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
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From City University's website:

City University AVRC Statement

Acknowledgements
The new version of the colour vision test was produced with support from the UK Civil Aviation Authority. The test is not yet in use for medical certification purposes. It should therefore be used only as a guide.

Interesting!
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Old 30th Jun 2013, 07:50
  #244 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
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right guys so its still possible to get a class 1 renewal done with the cvl added to it, and for use in the uk only, i suppose that ok, for now, considering that if you keep the medical going and pass a colour vision test, at least it can be changed, rather that letting the 5 year laps and then your eyesight changes and you cannot gain the class 1 back!!!
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Old 30th Jun 2013, 16:25
  #245 (permalink)  
 
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Yes but remember that you will not be able to gain an IR on a CPL with resricted Class 1 medical as you MUST have night flying privileges for the IR, unless of course the UK CAA Medical Branch intends to break that law as well.

I can see this ending in tears for some who, having spent a small fortune gaining a ME CPL/IR all of a sudden have it stripped away from them because an EASA Audit shows the CAA Med Branch has been operating in breach of EC Reg 1178/2011 and orders the CAA to revoke their licences or face prosecution in the EU Courts.

Whilst I applaud the CAA Medics in one respect for giving individuals the chance to gain a ME CPL IR, surely they can't be so stupid as to think they can get away with this. It was different under JAR; they were able to act unilaterally but EC Reg 1178/2011 is European Law and not a 'make it up as we go along' boys club like the JAA. It appears that the Med Branch is acting in defiance of the law.

I wish they would at the very least clarify the position in writing - but that is unlikely as they would then need to accept liability.

I think a letter to CAA Legal is needed. Make them speak up as to what the hell they are up to.
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Old 30th Jun 2013, 22:15
  #246 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 207
Collective Colour Vision Thread 4

Quite right guys I only hold a class 1 medical but no license or ratings I hold the medical incase one day I can get the colour restriction removed
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Old 8th Jul 2013, 01:58
  #247 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Well my CPL is also a PPL - it lists CPL(A) and PPL(A) in the box marked "Title of Licence, date of initial issue and country code".

I will be booking my next medical shortly - it will be interesting to see what they will give me this time around.

I am somewhat gobsmacked that the CAA medicos are prepared to put the CVD restrictions onto a class one when this is very clearly prohibited under part med. I suppose we should welcome such rebelliousness, but it does make you wonder what is going on.
My gob has been well and truly smacked. I have been issued with a Class 1 complete with the VCL restriction. My AME even called the CAA while I was there to confirm that it was okay. They seem to be getting around the part med rules by adding "ILA Issued by licensing authority in accordance with MED.B.001".

I Looked this up and found :-

MED.B.001 Limitations to medical certificates
(a) Limitations to class 1 and class 2 medical certificates
(1) If the applicant does not fully comply with the requirements for the relevant class of medical certificate but is considered to be not likely to jeopardise flight safety, the AeMC or AME shall:
(i) in the case of applicants for a class 1 medical certificate, refer the decision on fitness of the applicant to the licensing authority as indicated in Subpart B;
(ii) in cases where a referral to the licensing authority is not indicated in Subpart B, evaluate whether the applicant is able to perform his/her duties safely when complying with one or more limitations endorsed on the medical certificate, and issue the medical certificate with limitation(s) as necessary;
(iii) in the case of applicants for a class 2 medical certificate, evaluate whether the applicant is able to perform his/her duties safely when complying with one or more limitations endorsed on the medical certificate, and issue the medical certificate with limitation(s) as necessary in consultation with the licensing authority;
(iv) The AeMC or AME may revalidate or renew a medical certificate with the same limitation without referring the applicant to the licensing authority.
I'm not complaining as this means I get to keep my hard earned CPL, but it does make a nonsense of any European standardisation. I might even have a go at the CAD test next.
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Old 8th Jul 2013, 13:03
  #248 (permalink)  
 
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Therefore, you can now get your CPL/IR, MCC and Type Rating and apply for a job as FO but restricted to daytime flying only.........or have they added No CAT to the limitations as well, in which case.....why?

Also, why can't they issue a VCL as part of an OML?

That would permit CVD pilots to perate Commercial Air Transport as a member of a multi-crew aircraft.

There is no logic to these decisions.

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Old 9th Jul 2013, 06:20
  #249 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: West Sussex
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I have the NCAT restriction as well, so nothing has changed. At least I can (in theory) instruct for CPL or do other forms of aerial work if I want to.
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Old 14th Jul 2013, 07:57
  #250 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: West Sussex
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A friend (yes, really) has had a lifelong ambition to be a commercial pilot. He went for his Class 1 medical at Gatwick years ago and failed the Ishihara test, not previously knowing he had a colour deficiency. He assumed that this was the end of that particular ambition.

Being aware of this thread, I encouraged him to have his colour vision tested properly. (I also fail the Ishihara test, but passed a lantern test at the Institute of Opthamology which was acceptable to the CAA and allowed me to work airside. This same test result allowed me to have an unrestricted Class 2 medical).

Cutting a long story short, he decided to do the City University CAD test prior to his Class 1 medical. He was assured by the CAA that a pass at City University would be acceptable evidence of colour vision for his Class 1. He took the test and passed last week, sent the evidence to the CAA and was told he would have to undertake three more colour tests at Gatwick (at an extra cost of 125 on top of his medical fee). Apparently his pass at City was deemed to be "marginal" by the CAA.

Surely a pass is a pass. If I take an aviation exam and pass with 76% it is still a pass. I wouldn't expect to have to take the exam three more times because it is "marginal".

Has anyone come across this before?
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Old 15th Jul 2013, 12:01
  #251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
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the only difference between the two tests are that the city test is for diagnosis only and the cad at gatwick is the certified test, the protocalls for gatwick are that if you score a boarderline result ie deutuan being pass of 6 units, and you get 6.5 when they will ask you to take the test maybe 3 times to get 3 more scores and then average out the result, if you have passed at city then yes gatwick should be giving you certification, and that should be it, but we all know how accurate and fair the caa are over this and if anything they should be offering the cad at gatwick for free is they have results from city, and as you might be aware city designed the test and spend nearly 3 million on it.
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Old 23rd Jul 2013, 19:00
  #252 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: London
Age: 28
Posts: 13
Class 2 & Colour Vision

Could anyone just confirm for me whether it is 100% possible to still fly privately(PPL) in the daytime if I have red/green colour deficiency?

My previous dream of becoming a commercial airline pilot is definitely out of the window due to my colour vision (I had a colour vision test at City Uni). But if I could still at least be able to learn and fly aerobatics with a PPL in the daytime, I'll be more than happy.

So if anyone could confirm whether it is still possible to get a Class 2 Medical, then it really would be much appreciated.
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Old 23rd Jul 2013, 19:37
  #253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 4
Had contact with my colour-deficient friend today. He took the CAD test three more times at Gatwick. The main difference being that the CAA use an old CRT monitor for the test, while City use a state-of-the-art LED flat screen.

Despite this, he still managed to pass - albeit with a slightly worse score, but still with a good enough average to record a pass. Just the rest of the Class 1 medical to go now.

Incidentally, he was told that he could have had the three extra tests done at City University in the same session as the 'marginal' pass, and saved himself having to pay a further 150 for retesting at Gatwick. Worthwhile knowledge for anyone who scores a marginal pass at City.

Should I decide to go for a Class 1 myself, I know my old lantern test result will not be enough for an initial Class 1, but would probably use the same method of doing the City test independent of the CAA. I know my friend felt more confident doing the test at Gatwick with the knowledge that he knew the extent of his colour deficiency; he had experience of taking the test, and that he knew he had the ability to pass it!
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Old 23rd Jul 2013, 19:40
  #254 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 4
There are a couple of members at my flying club who have Class 2 medicals despite being colour deficient. They are restricted to day VFR only, but that suits the type of flying that they want to do.
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Old 23rd Jul 2013, 21:54
  #255 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 102
I have a red/green problem and have in the past (2005) been issued a class 2 day VFR restricted medical. It required me to push for it because the doc who conducted the initial test refused to believe I was still able to have a restricted class 2. After a couple of letters to the CAA and the doc, the CAA office in Gatwick issued me a day VFR restricted medical. Unfortunately personal circumstances meant I have not renewed the medical.

Best of luck with your quests.

Edit: Spelling

Last edited by Flyboy543; 23rd Jul 2013 at 21:56.
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Old 25th Jul 2013, 16:28
  #256 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 319
There is no problem getting a restricted medical with a colour vision deficiency. The restriction added to a class 2 (or even class 1, see my earlier post) is not "day VFR only" as some previous posters have suggested, rather it is "flights by day only". It is perfectly possible to fly IFR with a CVD restriction and I often do, using my IMC rating.

There are some other restrictions as well - you must have a radio for flights from and to airfields that have ATC and for a class 1 certificate, no commercial air transport is allowed.

The sad thing is that if the IMC rating is killed off for new pilots then the potential safety benefit of instrument flight will be denied to anyone with CVD because they cannot currently get a full IR. This is clearly very discriminatory, which is why the night qualification is not a pre-requisite for the proposed modular and en-route IRs. I would not hold my breath for these last two to be introduced though, as I understand some airlines are against them.
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Old 25th Jul 2013, 17:13
  #257 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Neither Here Nor There
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Information Needed

Hi troops,

I would be very grateful if anyone in the following categories can contact me via PM.

Issued Class 1 Medical ONLY, with restrictions
Issued Class 2 Medical ONLY, with restrictions
Issued BOTH Class 1 and 2 Medicals with restrictions on one but not the other

Issued CPL ONLY
Issued CPL/IR
Issued PPL ONLY
Issued PPL/IR
Issued CPL and PPL on same document

Issued Night Rating
Issued FI Rating

I want to build a database of EU CVD pilots as I am currently looking into an issue which has the potential to result in this being taken forward in the Courts.

There is no doubt whatsoever that the UK is the driving force behind EASA Part-MED and that they have made some very valuable concessions to the CVD fraternity.

However, reading Part-MED I would conclude that the baseline has been built on UK legislation, which differs quite considerably in some critical key areas from EU legislation and it is this that needs to be exploited.

We will require the assistance of the CVDPA and especially the Australian CVD pilots currently working in CAT operations.

But first of all, I need to know numbers and where people expect/want to go in their flying careers.
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Old 26th Jul 2013, 09:19
  #258 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London, UK
Age: 37
Posts: 35
cvdpilots already has a public member list available and a private list available for logged in members.

check it there..happy to help with data you need or to give the members a call for action.

skype me pedro_ponte
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Old 17th Aug 2013, 23:38
  #259 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brazil
Age: 41
Posts: 2
CAD test

Despite I already hold a Class 1 medical without restrictions (ATP) in my Country, my color vision deficiency always makes me reluctant in trying any position abroad.

I think a good idea is to carry by my on means, the CAD test, and so, have more chances to pass the medical exams in other countries.

So, anyone knows were could I submit myself to the CAD test?

Since now, thanks for any information.
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Old 18th Aug 2013, 10:00
  #260 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 207
what level of colour vision defiency do you have, and what tests have you done, the cad is only available at two sources in the UK Gatwick, and city university in london.. CAD is not approved by EASA only via UK CAA, it is not an aviation specific test, if you read the last few threads, it will give you more information,
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