TelBoy

east sider

My feelings are, if you can - go to other JAA states to try and pass their CV tests. Then if all else fails go and get the CAA class 1 with the restrictions. Remember EASA is looming and might be an end to CV pilots all together (who knows??). At least it gets you initial out the way, so should your eysight start going, or some other stupid thing then you have renewal standards. It is expensive to keep up though if you are not using it!!

Good to see yet another will not just give up - keep going mate.

2close

Cheers troops,

BTW, my AME informed me yesterday that EASA has to take over regulation of medical matters from JAA by next year.

Not seen anything from the CAA on that one; anyone????

Blinkz

Yes I knew that, if you read through the LSST(medical) meeting notes then its in that. In fact the LSST has now been disbanded. There will be no more changes in medical regulations until after EASA take over. The head of the CAA medical dept, Dr Evans has been made chairman of the committee who is over seeing the change from JAA to EASA.

Guess we'll have to see what happens!

FAA fit / JAR unfit

Congratulations 2close.. at the end I am sure youŽll find the way!!

My best wishes for you!!

Neo_RS14

whoa...EASA, eh. Another potential show-stopper. I'm just hoping that it brings in a more enlightened approach to CVD pilots, which will then be applied in JAA member states. I mean they must be aware of the CVD approach in the USA and Oz, of course they are...It really would be interesting to know what their take on those approaches are?

There are always the accident statistics of the CVD pilots in those two countries, which can be brought forth as a testament to the fact that we are no more of a risk than a pilot with normal colour vision...I'm adimant that this must be taken on board before any new regulations are introduced regarding CVD and class 1 deviations etc...

Blinkz

Neo, thats very true. But remember that generally everyone in EASA is just the same staff as JAA. I doubt very much that there will be any changes when it gets implemented. However the fact that the CAA is chairing the committee to change from JAA to EASA might be good news, maybe they will be able to try and push the new test city have been working on.....you never know lol.

2close

Hi Blinkz, good to see you back in these pages,

I have the new style Class 1 medical, of which there are now 2 types, the first is for Single Pilot Aircraft operations carrying passengers, the second type for all other aerial work.

This, my AME explained, is the new EASA system but how CVD is going to fit into this he wasn't aware.

I am a tad concerned as possibly instruction may be seen as such a SPA op with pax - I need to clarify this with the CAA.

Also, the current deviations for CVD on Class 1 medicals are applied by the UK CAA only so whether EASA is going to take this on board remains to be seen.

However, thinking the glass is half full, they may at long last be permitting CVD pilots to operate as a member of a Multi Pilot Aircraft crew, providing the other pilot has no deficiency, as in the current OML system for other medical conditions. Fingers crossed guys.

TelBoy

With the EASA just around the corner so to speak, it seems to have added hope and trepidation all at the same time. As the UK CAA is the only JAA state to allow deviations and to be fair to them, they have raised points such as swapping an FAA class 1 with CPL and some experience for a JAA class 1 and CPL only to get swallowed by other JAA states, I hope that the EASA will be more lenient for all of JAA land, and with Dr Evans in a prominent position – lets hope.

However it is necessary for the powers to be to be able to put a sensible case forward to increase harmonisation in aviation, allowing more tolerance while ensuring aviation safety and also that the individuals human rights are not compromised. This would obviously be a huge step in the right direction and one that there is now the opportunity to take.

Now for such a case as CVD to be put forward I feel that is necessary for us ALL to write to the EASA, Dr Evans and perhaps AOPA and ICAO. This is the only way that we can put our case forward. It MUST be done sensibly and professionally and put all the facts forward. Examples are defects in CV testing, states such as the FAA who accept that if you can distinguish the tower light signals you CAN distinguish aviation colours (of course you can – its on an airfield) and such satisfy the Air Navigation Order, while on the other hand the JAA are testing for “normal” colour vision and undermining human rights by unnecessarily moving the goal posts. It must be shown that states such as Australia and the FAA do NOT have accidents due to CVD and fly millions of hours each year. Dr Pape papers should also be included etc etc.

I feel that it should also be pointed out that someone will go as far as the European Court of Human Rights if discrimination is still allowed to exist.

These are just my thoughts on the matter any how. On a personal note I think we have to do all we can now to pass a test in JAA land somehow to get an unrestricted class 1 and if not get the restriction from the CAA and fight for grandfather rights with the EASA.

2close I see what you mean about single pilot ops and instructing. Seems odd that with the restriction you cannot take a C152 up with a passenger who is paying for a pleasure flight, but can if it is a “trial lesson” – just more BS I think.

Well let others post their thoughts on pestering the EASA and good luck to all of you.

2close

An excellent post TelBoy and one with which I agree wholeheartedly.

May I suggest that this is undertaken as a collective effort. One well structured, objective letter with multiple signatories (e-mail signatures would be acceptable) may have more beneficial effect than several individual, emotive, subjective approaches laden with threats.

The people at the CAA are very busy and don't have a great deal of time to go trawling through stacks of individual letters so the single, collective approach may be the better option.

In order to facilitate this I would suggest an initial meeting between as many affected CVD pilots (and wannabees) as possible, followed by the preparation of the letter for the attention of Dr Evans and a subsequent meeting with Dr Evans to discuss the contents and the way ahead.

I feel at this initial stage any mention of formal legal action should be avoided - lets try to get everyone on side and batting for the same team.

This is just food for thought and lets hear some rational comments. If agreed we should arrange the initial meeting sooner rather than later.

Cheers,

2close

TelBoy

I'm in on a collective approach.

Anyone else who will back 2close post here so we can make arrangements.

2close

Hi Troops,

Could I also suggest that one of us 'volunteers' to collate personal information and ideas in preparation for the meeting.

I would be more than happy to do this but am stretched at the moment with CPL course and skills test preparation. I will be happy to assist when I'm finished.

This may possibly be unnecessary but it may be an idea to start a new thread specifically for the purpose of these discussions / actions and to ask the Mods to sticky it to the top. It may make searching a tad easier bu we'd also need to make it quite explicit that it's not for general CVD discussions but purely for the discussions ahead. Just a thought.

Cheers.

2close

Shunter

You can count me in for that.

1) 2Close
2) TelBoy
3) Neo_RS14
4) Windforce
5) Shunter
6)
7)
8)

By the way, what do I log my "dual night rating" hours as? I'm presuming the "solo" stuff is P1/S?

east_sider

I'm in as well.

1) 2Close
2) TelBoy
3) Neo_RS14
4) Windforce
5) Shunter
6) east_sider
7)
8)

I agree with 2close that this should not be about formal legal action at this stage. Let's cross that bridge if/when we come to it.

Shunter

I really can't understand why they've got away with it for so long.. a mal-administered test of highly questionable relevancy, commonly failed by over 25%(!) of people with perfect colour vision (source: http://www.city.ac.uk/avrc/members/j...lour_study.pdf - worth reading if you haven't already)

Oh, yes of course, I do understand. The good old British tradition of "shut up and roll over". Meh

Shunter

Incidentily chaps, I know the night rating can be done dual etc.. but since the IMC rating doesn't involve any solo time whatsoever, is there anything to stop you getting the rating yet being restricted to flying under supervision? Just wondered...

Neo_RS14

Couldn't agree with you more regarding the tests, about the night rating, I have no idea sadly.

TelBoy

Shunter as far as I know (things have changed over the years) that the restriction states day VFR, so if you are a required crew member that is what it means. IMC is another strange thing I think, more BS.

I hope someone can correct me, but I would advise anyone who needs a definative answer to get it in writing from the CAA themselves.

Looks like the CVD "meeting" is popular. I can't wait to meet all of you. There is a LOT of knowledge and experience to be had from us all to present our case to the CAA/EASA. The EASA is the next step in the evolution of Europen aviation and I hope it can be that we all work together for the greater good of the aviation community. We all now have this opportunity so lets take it.

Shunter

I just wondered, because it's pretty widely accepted by our fellow colour-cripples that those going the CPL route can do the night-rating dual, get signed off as required, and the CAA seem to have no problem with this.

Since the IMC is done wholly dual, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to do the course, do the flight test, get the rating - provided you aren't P1 (in exactly the same way you do the night rating). I, for example, regularly fly with a mate (CPL/IR/FI), so surely I could fly IMC as Pu/t in those circumstances whilst holding the rating (and waiting for the current garbage CVD tests to die a long and paniful death).

PS. I've got room for 3 pax to be picked up en route from Leeds to wherever is decided...

Blinkz

erm not sure what you are all talking about this VFR only thing?

The CAA for ages now have been allowing CVD pilots to fly in IFR. The only limitation on a CVD medical is no night flight.

Blinkz

As far as I am aware the only limitation on the medical is no night flying. The old restriction used to be day only VFR however the VFR was removed and it is now only no night flying. I guess the only people to ask is the CAA.