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CTC Qatar Wings

Old 6th Jun 2013, 01:48
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 173
I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to post on this thread but some of these comments are just bizarre and ridiculous...

Originally Posted by flyride
But guys, I don't want to fight with you, if in your opinion that guy seem trustworthy enough to embrace MPL as it is, then go for it. Give him your money, and he'll make you the best pilot you can be.
But one isn't paying this guy personally, one would be paying CTC or OAA whichever flight school it happened to be. Whatever one thinks of them as businesses they have a reputation for turning out good pilots that the airlines like...don't really see how that is different from the integrated fATPL process as far as dealing with the FTO is concerned...

Originally Posted by GgW
Simple, you are .
Why? Yes you would trained to Qatar sops but then that would be the case with a fATPL as well. Once line training is signed off with the partner airline you can transfer to another one if you lose your job. That precedent was set back in 2008 when the first MPL holders at Sterling lost their jobs. The only real difference is that you couldn't do single pilot commercial flying.

Originally Posted by GoProPilot
Thus conventional sponsorship with an ATPL is prefered .. hang on , sponsorship? does Qatar sponsor at all?

I wonder why they are doing this, seriously? is there a shortage of current/rated pilots?

baffles .

stinks.
Qatar sponsor their own nationals, which is far more than our own sorry flag carrier does.

Why does this 'baffle' or 'stink'? They are a fast growing airline that has a lot of aircraft on order and probably want to start building a base of pilots who have been indoctrinated with the company from the beginning. Their reasoning for the MPL is probably the same as easyJet, Flybe and all the other airlines that have gone down this route...

No one offers full sponsorship in the UK (Atlantic excepted...) any more. Aer Lingus are the closest to have come to that recently and I certainly hope to get onto that opportunity. I'm not holding my breath though just because of the numbers involved. Therefore given a choice between an untagged fATPL course and the MPL the MPL is far preferable because you are tied to an airline that will take you at the end of it.

Originally Posted by TeaTowel
I'm sure if you broke down MPL training it wouldn't cost 105000.
Care to back that comment up with something? I'm sure if you 'broke down' the cost of a fATPL course it wouldn't 'cost' the advertised price either. That is how flight schools make money, by charging more for the course than it costs to produce...

Most analysis I have read suggests that the cost of producing an MPL course, for a flight school, is certainly not any cheaper than an integrated fATPL.

Last edited by contacttower118.2; 6th Jun 2013 at 01:51.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 03:14
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
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Just be very very careful with this one guys, I cannot stress this point enough

Qatar is a brutal airline that will drop you for the smallest -up, misdemeanour or indiscretion whether on duty or off duty.

That doesn't even include flying related stuff necessarily. Get caught messing around with a cabin crew, you're out. Captain makes a hard landing or continues unstable approach below minima, you're both out, whether you called go round or not. Do your walk-round without wearing your uniform blazer or hat - get reported by one of the "spy" cabin crew, you're out. CEO looks out his office window and sees you walking up the street from the carpark with your shirt untucked or not wearing your hat, you're out. Miss a duty because you weren't notified of a roster change - the rostering guy lies to save his ass and says he called you when he didn't - you're out. Get sick on leave and you're out, no matter how many medical certificates you can produce. Go for a picnic in the park during the hours of daylight in Ramadan and get arrested by the local cops (yes it happens and yes you can still get in even if you're not muslim) - you're out. The policy is always to sack first and investigate later, and there is absolutely no appeal process.

That is why they're always hiring new F/O's even though the pay is good, and that is why the contract world is full of ex QR people.

I wasn't sacked and I completed my bonded period before I quit, but it was the worst 3 years of my entire life. The country is a boring, dreadful, and bloody expensive third world hole. It's NOT Dubai-expat-party-town so get that idea out of your heads, it's completely land locked and surrounded by Saudi Arabia and it's a lot closer to Saudi than Dubai culturally. For those of you with families, the schools are appalling quality and stupendously expensive and there's nothing for your wife to do except hang out in malls and spend your money that you're trying to save to pay off that 105000 you just borrowed. The spending doesn't stop there, you NEED a half decent apartment or house because you will spend all your life in it, you can't go outdoors because it's too hot. You actually need a large car or 4WD because it's safer, when the local hits you in his Landcruiser at 200 km/h you don't want to be in a Micra. If and when that happens, it will always be YOUR fault on the police report and you will have to pay for his repairs. Etc etc.

I could continue indefinitely but no point really, just be aware that there are a million ways things can go wrong in that place without it even being your fault. 105000 is a HELL of a lot of money to put at risk for it, could you really look at yourself in the mirror if it went bad, and you had guaranteed that money against your parent's house for example?
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 03:23
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,312
So then guys, Who has signed up for 105,000 loan on their parents house? for an MPL. which before 1500hours to convert to ATPL it could be useless?

What happens if you get dropped at 600 jet hours for instance? and you've been trained to MPL QATAR SOPS.
You apply to another airline. An airlines SOP's don't change based on the ab-initio training regime utilized for the co-pilot. An MPL restricts the holder to "multi crew" flying. It is highly unlikely an airline is going to have a requirement for anything else. A host airline is part of the training syllabus and provides the initial type rating. Once the MPL holder has completed their line training, nothing prevents them from completing another type rating or switching to another airline, provided that the applicable licensing authority recognises the licence.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 07:03
  #64 (permalink)  
GgW
 
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What happens if you get dropped at 600 jet hours for instance? and you've been trained to MPL QATAR SOPS.
Yes you do apply to another airline, as simple as that. After paying 105 000 the get an MPL with an airbus rating. So lets hope another airbus operater will take you on and not bond you again for line training.

Qatar is a brutal airline that will drop you for the smallest -up
Luke SkyToddler's post should be put at the top as a sticky to this post. QR has very high standards, and they don't really care if you are a new MPL or a very experience captain. You make a mistake an your out.

This scheme should really be left alone for Qatari nationals. The rest should try their luck with Easyjet.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 08:56
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Yes you do apply to another airline, as simple as that. After paying 105 000 the get an MPL with an airbus rating. So lets hope another airbus operater will take you on and not bond you again for line training
I can't really see what the difference is in that respect from any other cadet programme? If you did an integrated fATPL programme leading to cadet airline placement, you may or may not have spent the same amount of money, and the result would be little different if you were terminated with 600 hours.

It would be quite unusual to be bonded for line training? Such bonds are normally for type rating training. Although there is a cost element to line training, it is conducted on revenue flights as a rule, and although specific to the number of available training captain tracks, additional resource (safety pilots) is usually limited. In any event, for the hypothetical case of somebody transitioning with 600 hours on type, the line training wouldn't usually be any greater than for anybody else with experience on type.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 08:59
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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That doesn't even include flying related stuff necessarily. Get caught messing around with a cabin crew, you're out.
Well I won't be applying then...
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 11:06
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
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I'm sure if you 'broke down' the cost of a fATPL course it wouldn't 'cost' the advertised price either.
Of course it bloody wouldn't. But Less aircraft hours = more profit for school, a percentage of which is probably passed onto the tagged airline.

I like the idea of MPL training but not as a standalone licence. It should be part of everyone's fATPL training, not replacing it.

At the end of the day it costs less for the school and airline, and the SJS infected wannabe junkies pay more to satisfy their cravings.

Who wants to bet that the MPL will eventually be replaced by remote monitored FSX sessions you can do in the comfort of your own home and pay 200000 for the privalage?

Gambling 105000 against your parents house should be an automatic psych evaluation fail.

Last edited by TeaTowel; 6th Jun 2013 at 11:24.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 11:52
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Do you know how much a fully certified simulator costs to buy and run?
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 12:08
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Of course it bloody wouldn't. But Less aircraft hours = more profit for school, a percentage of which is probably passed onto the tagged airline
Until you offset the simulator hourly retail rate which is about four times that of a single engine trainer.
I like the idea of MPL training but not as a standalone licence. It should be part of everyone's fATPL training, not replacing it.
It is very likely to evolve into just that.
At the end of the day it costs less for the school and airline, and the SJS infected wannabe junkies pay more to satisfy their cravings
No, the cost savings are not really there. The advantage is that the training is more relevant to the airline pilot and incorporates much more of the relevant technical and non technical aspects at an earlier stage.
Who wants to bet that the MPL will eventually be replaced by remote monitored FSX sessions you can do in the comfort of your own home and pay 200000 for the privalage?
The price will most definitely reach that point in the future (14 years at 5% P/A).
Gambling 105000 against your parents house should be an automatic psych evaluation fail.
You cannot do this, unless you own the house. Parents can guarantee these sums against their own assets if they have 40% equity in the property even after the loan is taken into account. They have to show affordability in the event the primary borrower defaults, so they make the those decisions based on their own experience.
Funding can often come from savings, inheritance, earnings, secured and unsecured borrowing, and any combination thereof.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 12:17
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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QR has very high standards, and they don't really care if you are a new MPL or a very experience captain. You make a mistake an your out.
High standards or a blame culture? I'll let you decide but for me it's not the first.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 14:09
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 23
People reading this post should not be too gullible with what people are saying here. The again in general with most PPRuNe

Would CTC Wings really integrate with the world's leading airline to make sure they get your money and then fire the hell out of you? I don't think so. We're talking here about a very reputable flight school and last year's voted "world's best airline"... If all this were a scam it wouldn't be available in the first place.

That you can't hit on the stewardesses because if you're seen your sacked or that when you do your walk-around external inspection missing your hat and such, you also get sacked... Yes it's very very strict, but it's a prestigious airline. This also means they work with very very strict policies which you'll have to respect.

I've met a guy before who's lived in Qatar (not as a pilot) and from his opinion he seemed to like it there although he has preference for living in other countries (expat family). I can imagine it's very hot and dry every day and that you're either flying or inside your house with air-conditioning set to max... but this is something you know when you're applying for it. It's "Qatar Airways", you kind of know where you're getting into when applying...

Let's keep this as a diplomatic/casual discussion rather than a place to talk about scams and airline/FTO conspiracy theories.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 14:11
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
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You cannot do this, unless you own the house
You know damn well what it means when someones says a student gambles their parents house.

The student isn't doing it on their own by arriving home one day with the loan contract and informing their parents for the first time. Don't even argue it.

Form May 2013 Air International again:

Asked to comment on the quality of First Officers one Captain said: "They seem to be selected more on...their willingness to take on huge debt then on their suitability for...command. They routinely seem to be in such dire financial situation that stress is only a matter of time." Having taken on huge debt, mediocre remuneration makes it hard for pilots to make ends meet.
Asked to comment on the quality of First Officers one Captain said: "They seem to be selected more on...their willingness to take on huge debt then on their suitability for...command. They routinely seem to be in such dire financial situation that stress is only a matter of time." Having taken on huge debt, mediocre remuneration makes it hard for pilots to make ends meet.
Asked to comment on the quality of First Officers one Captain said: "They seem to be selected more on...their willingness to take on huge debt then on their suitability for...command. They routinely seem to be in such dire financial situation that stress is only a matter of time." Having taken on huge debt, mediocre remuneration makes it hard for pilots to make ends meet.
Asked to comment on the quality of First Officers one Captain said: "They seem to be selected more on...their willingness to take on huge debt then on their suitability for...command. They routinely seem to be in such dire financial situation that stress is only a matter of time." Having taken on huge debt, mediocre remuneration makes it hard for pilots to make ends meet.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 14:22
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: The Kitchen
Posts: 138
Sad to see the Irish Celtic Tiger mentality of loans loans loans debt debt debt creep in.

In Ireland it was used by people simply to introduce themselves as "property owners" at wine and cheese parties.

Here as "Jet Pilots"

Maybe it would be a better idea to invest that money in Tulips?
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 14:27
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: The Kitchen
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You're a Loan shark then? Great. Business must be booming.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 22:29
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Jupiter
Posts: 43
Luke SkyToddler wrote:
105000 is a HELL of a lot of money to put at risk for it, could you really look at yourself in the mirror if it went bad, and you had guaranteed that money against your parent's house for example?
Just felt like repeating this.

Also, if someone decides to go through the BBVA route of finance, that person, or whoever is paying for it, will have to move ALL of their banking activities to BBVA. Didn't know this until EZ Selection day at Oxford.

Last edited by AnotherWannabe; 6th Jun 2013 at 22:35.
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Old 7th Jun 2013, 00:24
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 187
They actually just require you to open a current account and have your salary paid into it. You can stay using your old bank if you'd like.
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Old 11th Jun 2013, 14:48
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sky
Age: 29
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Hey, anybody knows how to cancel the assesement? I got into an inconvenience which I have to take care of first, and I don't find any "cancel" button on the application site, nor did they answer my mail and today it is 8 days to the assesement.
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Old 11th Jun 2013, 15:20
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 173
Just give their Dibden number a call I would have thought...02380 844000.
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Old 12th Jun 2013, 12:21
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Swindon
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I think you've made your own mind up if you don't want to go for flexi-crew "exploitation"! that said I think salary is better than 15k p/a and the new contract is 12 months with ctc before easyjet employment . Boils down to whether you want uk or the sandpit.
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Old 13th Jun 2013, 20:45
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: UK
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momo95.... they will not give you back the 69000, however they dress up the 'bond' or whatever. You pay.
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