BA Future Pilot Programme (FPP)(Merged)
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From Flight Global BA recruitment drive aims to attract less well-off pilots
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Glover said, however, that the pilots will not be bonded to the airline for a specific period. If they were to receive a more lucrative offer from another carrier they would be free to go after their normal notice period.
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There are various reasons for why, many have been well documented here.
Please don't forget that BA will be saving millions through this programme as cadets are paid less than DEPs and will also be paying for TRs (at cost price, not commercial like Ryanair impose). Employing low-hours pilots is risky, so BA are ensuring they have a very high quality of cadet they are happy with.
By engaging with prospective pilots before they commence a course the tax bill is reduced through ROTE.
It is "win-win" for wanabees and BA.
Please don't forget that BA will be saving millions through this programme as cadets are paid less than DEPs and will also be paying for TRs (at cost price, not commercial like Ryanair impose). Employing low-hours pilots is risky, so BA are ensuring they have a very high quality of cadet they are happy with.
By engaging with prospective pilots before they commence a course the tax bill is reduced through ROTE.
It is "win-win" for wanabees and BA.
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Hi everyone,
I was a BA cadet in the late 90's during the last recruitment bulge - I now have 11 years service - a mixture of short haul and long haul.
Firstly, I'll admit I haven't read all this thread. And secondly, I'm in no way involved in recruitment, so I'm not sure of the criteria involved this time round. However.....
From looking at the past few pages, I can't help thinking some people are getting too hung up on the exact educational criteria. If the selection is anything like it was last time round, BA are far far more interested in you as a person than what exams you passed at school. Sure, there are minimum requirements - which are exactly that; if you don't have them then you are unlikely to get through the first stage (this may sound tough, but life is tough sometimes) - but once you acquired these, what did you do with your life???
Whilst I was at Oxford, there were BA cadets who were previously police officers, army officers, lawyers, accountants, teachers,engineers, bankers...amongst many other professions. The whole point of the cadet scheme is that it attracts the best people from many different backgrounds, and BA can afford to be choosy in this way.
I'm sorry if this is disheartening but everyone on my course had a degree as a minimum. On top of that, many of us had professional qualifications or masters degrees. I'm not saying you couldn't get in with fewer qualifications, but this was certainly a rarity.
As I stated, this was the case in the cadet scheme of the 90's, and it may be different now. This is by no means meant to put people off, I am merely trying to shed some light on the whole process (having been through it myself).
On a brighter note, if you are thinking of applying then go ahead and do it.....someone has to get in!! The assessment process is very fair, and trust me, if you are good enough, you will get through.
Good luck to one and all.
I was a BA cadet in the late 90's during the last recruitment bulge - I now have 11 years service - a mixture of short haul and long haul.
Firstly, I'll admit I haven't read all this thread. And secondly, I'm in no way involved in recruitment, so I'm not sure of the criteria involved this time round. However.....
From looking at the past few pages, I can't help thinking some people are getting too hung up on the exact educational criteria. If the selection is anything like it was last time round, BA are far far more interested in you as a person than what exams you passed at school. Sure, there are minimum requirements - which are exactly that; if you don't have them then you are unlikely to get through the first stage (this may sound tough, but life is tough sometimes) - but once you acquired these, what did you do with your life???
Whilst I was at Oxford, there were BA cadets who were previously police officers, army officers, lawyers, accountants, teachers,engineers, bankers...amongst many other professions. The whole point of the cadet scheme is that it attracts the best people from many different backgrounds, and BA can afford to be choosy in this way.
I'm sorry if this is disheartening but everyone on my course had a degree as a minimum. On top of that, many of us had professional qualifications or masters degrees. I'm not saying you couldn't get in with fewer qualifications, but this was certainly a rarity.
As I stated, this was the case in the cadet scheme of the 90's, and it may be different now. This is by no means meant to put people off, I am merely trying to shed some light on the whole process (having been through it myself).
On a brighter note, if you are thinking of applying then go ahead and do it.....someone has to get in!! The assessment process is very fair, and trust me, if you are good enough, you will get through.
Good luck to one and all.
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I've read this thread with a lot of interest and the main thing I take from it (other than that people don't understand MINIMUM entry requirements) is the hostility towards those that may not have considered being a pilot as a career previously.
Well, I'm one of those people. Why do you think you should have any more right to it than me? I may not have considered it from an early age - why would I? Flying's for the rich! (Or those that are willing to sign their life away in the forces).
BA have now taken the expense issue away, sort of, so it suddenly becomes a viable option. Good pay, good pension, good benefits. There aren't many of those sort of jobs around, so not only are there going to be thousands of applications from those already considering it, now there are going to be thousands from people like me!
You only live once, so why shouldn't I go for it?
I've also been fortunate to be able to work myself into a position where I can afford to not earn a wage for a couple of years whilst funding myself through the training (still need to borrow that 84k though!
).
So lets forget the negativity, I wish everyone luck that may be applying - hopefully I'll see you there!!
Well, I'm one of those people. Why do you think you should have any more right to it than me? I may not have considered it from an early age - why would I? Flying's for the rich! (Or those that are willing to sign their life away in the forces).
BA have now taken the expense issue away, sort of, so it suddenly becomes a viable option. Good pay, good pension, good benefits. There aren't many of those sort of jobs around, so not only are there going to be thousands of applications from those already considering it, now there are going to be thousands from people like me!
You only live once, so why shouldn't I go for it?
I've also been fortunate to be able to work myself into a position where I can afford to not earn a wage for a couple of years whilst funding myself through the training (still need to borrow that 84k though!
).So lets forget the negativity, I wish everyone luck that may be applying - hopefully I'll see you there!!
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Pilots with 500h on type only won't be considered....
I'm not quite sure how the BA FPP is a boost to the aviation industry, as all the jobs will be going to people who aren't yet qualified as pilots. It is a massive blow to everyone with fATPLs, as there are now 400 less jobs to apply to....
For people who have a commercial licence, there is a DEP entry programme, the entry criteria for which vary based upon the company's immediate needs - bearing in mind DEPs can be on line very quickly after recruitment.
In the past, BA have required 2000 relevant hours (and full ATPL) for direct entry to longhaul fleets and 500 relevant hours (and frozen ATPL) for direct entry to shorthaul fleets - sometimes type-rated, sometimes not. This has led to an anomoly in the past where 500 hour DEPs who have self-sponsored and worked for Ryanair (say) have joined on the higher DEP scales after their course mates who joined BA directly from the training schools onto SSP scales. The pay difference is significant in the early years.
If you really are that interested in joining BA, I suggest you devote your energies to what you can do instead of worrying about what you can't do.
Last edited by Human Factor; 17th Aug 2011 at 20:07.
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Isn't the EU (and I assume the UK) flooded with unemployed pilots? Why is BA doing this when they could get 800 pilots tomorrow if they wanted too simply by tapping the existing market?
hole at BA.
why these bastards don't take pilots who are looking for a job?
Stop this hypocrisy! what they want is an armada of pilots in debt, so they can decrease their salary and conditions at any time.
BA hate pilots, they want you down, they want you to be miserible, and the next step at BA will be P2F! want bet?
"please BA, don't kick me out, I will work for free, I give up my staff travels and everything with , no increase salary and even keep my salary, but please, don't kick me out, my mom and dad will be out of their house, PLEASE, I will work for free?????"
In the past, BA have required 2000 relevant hours (and full ATPL)
so what's the point of this CPL? and what's the point to become a pilot when there is no job on this market and nobody want you????
As I said previously, I hold a PPL, and a theoretical ATPL, but as a modular student. Am I still considered as eligible ?
BA HR.( the
er)how long this industry is going to
people around, tell me?
Last edited by captainsuperstorm; 17th Aug 2011 at 20:49.
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I'm thinking will this scheme be as good as it looks for those who don't have money for flight training.. What exactly does BA pay for? Just flight training? If not, there's probably some charge for selection, then all the fees, insurance, medical.. Living costs on top of that.. Will come up to some 15k I reckon that we have to pay 
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"Obviously this represents a significant investment by APL and you will therefore be required to deposit a security bond of £84,000 with them. Because this is a sponsored scheme, this entire £84,000 security bond will be repaid to you, tax-free, if you successfully complete all training, and join British Airways as a first officer."
So, no we don't pay everything, assuming one is successful in the training, you have a guaranteed job with a top airline and :
"As a first officer, in addition to your basic pay and allowances you will receive a repayment of £12,000 of your security bond each year for the first seven years of employment."
You get your 84k back, which at the end of the day is the very best offer you can get in the industry.
So, no we don't pay everything, assuming one is successful in the training, you have a guaranteed job with a top airline and :
"As a first officer, in addition to your basic pay and allowances you will receive a repayment of £12,000 of your security bond each year for the first seven years of employment."
You get your 84k back, which at the end of the day is the very best offer you can get in the industry.
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Don't expect a miracle!
Well, if BA does take 800 more pilots over the next 5 years, that will be an average of 160/year...80 of whom will be ab initio and the rest (as I understand it) will be experienced pilots with several hundred hours on multi-crew airliners. Of course, this will draw pilots from other airlines so openings are likely to arise..but this news from BA will not give the job-market the big shake-up that many thousands of fATPL holders need... and there may be no effect at all for quite a long time.
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City Chump:
the only difference between this and BA's previous cadet schemes is that pay starts only after line training (presumably to weed out anyone who got through the rest but cannot handle jets)
No - it's mainly to save money! To get to the line training stage will result in nearly everyone being fine, although for 400 cadets there might be the odd one that just can't land the 320.
There are many differences btw this and the old scheme, but they're irrelevant given what's happened to the industry in the last decade.
the only difference between this and BA's previous cadet schemes is that pay starts only after line training (presumably to weed out anyone who got through the rest but cannot handle jets)
No - it's mainly to save money! To get to the line training stage will result in nearly everyone being fine, although for 400 cadets there might be the odd one that just can't land the 320.
There are many differences btw this and the old scheme, but they're irrelevant given what's happened to the industry in the last decade.
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Do people think this is worth applying for if you already have ATPL's and 150+ hours (ie pre CPL)? I guess they want people to start from scratch again so they have control over the full training scheme though I always find it odd that they want people who are motivated yet haven't already started training or have much air experience.
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Every time I come on this thread I see the same question:
"Is it worth applying with this, that, (insert personal situation, or questioning whether the alignment of the planets is an important factor)"
The qualifications needed, and the personal qualities and situation are clearly explained on several sources.
IF however, you are unclear as to whether you meet these, please stop asking here. This is not the place to find the exact answers. I would suggest doing either of the following:
1. Ask BA or the FTOs themselves. They might just have the answer. Perhaps when you have your answer, post it here as a help to others, as a couple of people have already done (apologies, I can't remember your usernames, but thankyou nonetheless).
2. Apply anyway. It will cost you nothing to apply as the expensive bit is after the paper sift. If you get through the paper sift, then you know you're fine and in the same boat as everyone else. The worst they can say is PFO, and it won't even cost you anything to find out!
This might just stop the endless irritating pointless questions, and the equally irritating pretentious replies from people who apparently have all the GCSEs, A levels, ASBOs, BScs, etc you could possibly dream of.
"Is it worth applying with this, that, (insert personal situation, or questioning whether the alignment of the planets is an important factor)"
The qualifications needed, and the personal qualities and situation are clearly explained on several sources.
IF however, you are unclear as to whether you meet these, please stop asking here. This is not the place to find the exact answers. I would suggest doing either of the following:
1. Ask BA or the FTOs themselves. They might just have the answer. Perhaps when you have your answer, post it here as a help to others, as a couple of people have already done (apologies, I can't remember your usernames, but thankyou nonetheless).
2. Apply anyway. It will cost you nothing to apply as the expensive bit is after the paper sift. If you get through the paper sift, then you know you're fine and in the same boat as everyone else. The worst they can say is PFO, and it won't even cost you anything to find out!
This might just stop the endless irritating pointless questions, and the equally irritating pretentious replies from people who apparently have all the GCSEs, A levels, ASBOs, BScs, etc you could possibly dream of.
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There is a fundemental difference in the way older folk read the BA offer and youngsters.
You will pay every single penny back plus interest. Although you will never see this money as it will be recovered before you get your hands on it.
To a youngster that means you didn't pay anything
To someone older its bloody hell 100k plus loan payed back over 7 years how much am I meant to live on in london they are having a laugh.
Realistically I know at sub aged 25 I would have liked to have gone for it but know that my family would not have secured the loan for it.
Aged 30 plus I wouldn't have gone for it but also realise there is no point telling youngsters that its not as good as it seems.
You will pay every single penny back plus interest. Although you will never see this money as it will be recovered before you get your hands on it.
To a youngster that means you didn't pay anything
To someone older its bloody hell 100k plus loan payed back over 7 years how much am I meant to live on in london they are having a laugh.
Realistically I know at sub aged 25 I would have liked to have gone for it but know that my family would not have secured the loan for it.
Aged 30 plus I wouldn't have gone for it but also realise there is no point telling youngsters that its not as good as it seems.
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mad-jock, the huge difference with this is that your family wouldn't need to secure the loan as BA can stand behind it, but you're absolutely right on the different ways of reading it.
Either way, it's the best show in town, and those with families/commitments etc will always struggle big time to switch into this career now.
Either way, it's the best show in town, and those with families/commitments etc will always struggle big time to switch into this career now.
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Well this is the nub.
The un secured loan is not for everyone. They have also stated as well that if they secure it that the rates of interest will be loaded.
The way I had read it if you do have captial to secure the loan you will be expected to use it. If your parents arn't willing to put thier capital on the line it will be tough luck.
It is also done on a credit check as well. So if any of your immediate family have defaulted on any CC payments etc you won't get through the credit check.
I would be very suprised if it will be into double figures the number of people that will be secured by BA.
As I said the older you are with more life experence the more transparent what they are doing becomes.
The un secured loan is not for everyone. They have also stated as well that if they secure it that the rates of interest will be loaded.
The way I had read it if you do have captial to secure the loan you will be expected to use it. If your parents arn't willing to put thier capital on the line it will be tough luck.
It is also done on a credit check as well. So if any of your immediate family have defaulted on any CC payments etc you won't get through the credit check.
I would be very suprised if it will be into double figures the number of people that will be secured by BA.
As I said the older you are with more life experence the more transparent what they are doing becomes.
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madjock,
I hope what you say is not correct, though I do fear it is. Far earlier in this thread I said that it looks like BA are reluctant to stand behind a loan. If they are going to be assessing what capital parents have then it'll be another kick in the balls for those in my position.
Using university as an example, the government deems my parents wealthy enough to support me therefore doesn't give me a full loan or bursaries etc, on the pretense that my parents will be pumping me money all year. My parents decide not to support me financially. I, and people like me, end up far worse off than those from poorer backgrounds, who receive much more government support.
Annoyingly, BA could take a similar stance and choose to persecute those whose parents do not help out. Either way, I don't believe a parent should have to put their capital behind a loan, so I guess it's just going to be tough luck for me if I were to be successful.
That said, if the majority of successful applicants are to have considerable life experience (ie. career changers), it shouldn't be an issue for many as they'll have their own capital to put behind a loan.
I hope what you say is not correct, though I do fear it is. Far earlier in this thread I said that it looks like BA are reluctant to stand behind a loan. If they are going to be assessing what capital parents have then it'll be another kick in the balls for those in my position.
Using university as an example, the government deems my parents wealthy enough to support me therefore doesn't give me a full loan or bursaries etc, on the pretense that my parents will be pumping me money all year. My parents decide not to support me financially. I, and people like me, end up far worse off than those from poorer backgrounds, who receive much more government support.
Annoyingly, BA could take a similar stance and choose to persecute those whose parents do not help out. Either way, I don't believe a parent should have to put their capital behind a loan, so I guess it's just going to be tough luck for me if I were to be successful.
That said, if the majority of successful applicants are to have considerable life experience (ie. career changers), it shouldn't be an issue for many as they'll have their own capital to put behind a loan.
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With regard to "why BA would want to do this" the answer is simple: They've been doing it for decades and they know that it works.
By going down the sponsorship route, they get the following benefits (amongst others):
It reminded me of my own military training where just "passing" wasn't good enough!
By going down the sponsorship route, they get the following benefits (amongst others):
- Pilots who are bonded to them for 7 years
- A chance to steep their cadets in the company culture from day one
- Their choice of FTO (no Greek or Spanish IRs!)
- The ability to set the bar higher than the CAA/JAA minimum requirements
- A long-term assessment of the cadet's personality, attitude and motivation (a 14 month long interview, if you like).
It reminded me of my own military training where just "passing" wasn't good enough!
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By going down the sponsorship route
I am sure that they will get the same standard of folk through that they had before.
But now the full risk is on the student.