BA Future Pilot Programme (FPP)(Merged)
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Is BA paying cadets through the 44 weeks or so of line training?
All going well does the job offer from BA come at the end of the type rating training or the line training?
All going well does the job offer from BA come at the end of the type rating training or the line training?
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MTB
Good grief! Paper bags and a general sense of direction spring to mind.
Despite 16000+ flying hours I think I may choose to use the train for my future holidays. Not wishing to be patronising but were you a successful applicant I wonder?
Despite 16000+ flying hours I think I may choose to use the train for my future holidays. Not wishing to be patronising but were you a successful applicant I wonder?
Last edited by FullTanks; 3rd Jan 2012 at 16:26.
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MFB's question was about base and line training, not the fATPL, JOC and MCC elements covered at the FTO, or the Type Rating conducted at the BA TRTO. The line training in the context MFB meant may well be around 44 weeks.
Neither the base nor line training is explicitly mentioned anywhere on the FPP website, although the website does imply that successful candidates will be employed with the company on completion of Type Rating (albeit only when and if vacancies exist on the line, so there could be a wait after finishing with the TRTO), and will be paid the starting salary from that date, prior to base or line training. Might be worth a call to BA to double-check that though -- and a brief report back here if you get an answer!
Neither the base nor line training is explicitly mentioned anywhere on the FPP website, although the website does imply that successful candidates will be employed with the company on completion of Type Rating (albeit only when and if vacancies exist on the line, so there could be a wait after finishing with the TRTO), and will be paid the starting salary from that date, prior to base or line training. Might be worth a call to BA to double-check that though -- and a brief report back here if you get an answer!
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Sorry folks, line training is approximately 44 sectors not 44 weeks! This follows 8 weeks of advanced type rating.
The FPP site states:
"If a cadet pilot successfully completes all training to the required standards, and pilot vacancies at British Airways exist at that time, they will be offered an unconditional offer of employment as a first officer."
Does "all training" include line training?
I don't think it's clear whether the unconditional offer of employment would be:
1. after type rating and before line training; or
2. following line training.
If the latter, will we be paid during line training?
Just wondering if anyone had this clarified to them during the application process. Also, was anyone advised of how long line training would last?
The FPP site states:
"If a cadet pilot successfully completes all training to the required standards, and pilot vacancies at British Airways exist at that time, they will be offered an unconditional offer of employment as a first officer."
Does "all training" include line training?
I don't think it's clear whether the unconditional offer of employment would be:
1. after type rating and before line training; or
2. following line training.
If the latter, will we be paid during line training?
Just wondering if anyone had this clarified to them during the application process. Also, was anyone advised of how long line training would last?
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Start of salary payment
MFB
If you feel that some of us were a little harsh upon you since your post #1262, I for one apologise, but you may wish to consider this; flying requires skill, precision and application, amongst other attributes. Several misinterpreted your post due to inaccurate details in your question. It took us back to the early days of this thread when inane questions were asked by those unable to interpret the qualification requirements and/or with appalling standards of written English, grammar or syntax in their various posts.
In answer to your question:
BA FPP website (FAQs)
13. When do I start earning a salary? How much will that be?
The Future Pilot Programme involves completing all flight and simulator training, up to and including the type rating licence skills test (LST), as a cadet pilot and during that time the cadet pilot is not an employee of British Airways, APL or the FTO, and no salary is earned.
As stated above, by Fate Hunter, the LST is completed on the simulator. This will be before Base Training and thus Line Training. No doubt a definitive answer to this will eventually be forthcoming from BA. Certainly when Line Training I would expect that you would be wearing a BA uniform, not that of an FTO cadet. Pre-1999 approximately 30 Line Training sectors were initially rostered; this may have changed in the meantime. 8 weeks for the TR course (Technical training and simulator) seems a reasonable guess. If anyone with more up to date information would care to correct me, please do so.
I hope this goes some way to answering your queries.
If you feel that some of us were a little harsh upon you since your post #1262, I for one apologise, but you may wish to consider this; flying requires skill, precision and application, amongst other attributes. Several misinterpreted your post due to inaccurate details in your question. It took us back to the early days of this thread when inane questions were asked by those unable to interpret the qualification requirements and/or with appalling standards of written English, grammar or syntax in their various posts.
In answer to your question:
BA FPP website (FAQs)
13. When do I start earning a salary? How much will that be?
The Future Pilot Programme involves completing all flight and simulator training, up to and including the type rating licence skills test (LST), as a cadet pilot and during that time the cadet pilot is not an employee of British Airways, APL or the FTO, and no salary is earned.
As stated above, by Fate Hunter, the LST is completed on the simulator. This will be before Base Training and thus Line Training. No doubt a definitive answer to this will eventually be forthcoming from BA. Certainly when Line Training I would expect that you would be wearing a BA uniform, not that of an FTO cadet. Pre-1999 approximately 30 Line Training sectors were initially rostered; this may have changed in the meantime. 8 weeks for the TR course (Technical training and simulator) seems a reasonable guess. If anyone with more up to date information would care to correct me, please do so.
I hope this goes some way to answering your queries.
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Still beats being a contract pilot for U2 or FR. But a bit of a shocker as you are also paying for your Type Rating through the FPP scheme. As long as the young un dumb continue to fall as suckers for 'the dream' of flying 73s or 320s for the above, conditions will continue to erode in order to stay competitive. Who knows, perhaps, regardless of the yes or no vote, gatwick may well become another BA Connect.
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But a bit of a shocker as you are also paying for your Type Rating through the FPP scheme.
Also, I wonder if this will result in any noticeable changes to the initial 7 year FPP salary scale that cadets were shown at the final stage at The Rivers.
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I was not aware that this was directly the case?
Last edited by BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES; 5th Jan 2012 at 20:44. Reason: Meant loan not pay.........would never make a bank manager!
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Sure, I understand that and certainly it would seem that the FPP scale is indeed engineered in a way that BA effectively get the money back off you that they invested in your TR. I wonder if this scale will be altered as a result of the 34PP scenario which seems inevitable.
It seems as though the FlyBe cadet schemes are unique in that they do not 'cost' the cadet anything for the TR. This is paid for you and you go in on the same scale/salary as anybody else would.
It seems as though the FlyBe cadet schemes are unique in that they do not 'cost' the cadet anything for the TR. This is paid for you and you go in on the same scale/salary as anybody else would.
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I thought that the Type Rating wasn't mentioned too, but I just revisited bafuturepilot.com and found this (my bold)...
This is where the Future Pilot Programme really comes into its own. We have structured the programme so that APL will sponsor your flight training, jet orientation course and type rating. Obviously this represents a significant investment by APL and you will therefore be required to deposit a security bond of £84,000 with them. Because this is a sponsored scheme, this entire £84,000 security bond will be repaid to you, tax-free, if you successfully complete all training, and join British Airways as a first officer.
I'm sure that wasn't there when I last checked!
This is where the Future Pilot Programme really comes into its own. We have structured the programme so that APL will sponsor your flight training, jet orientation course and type rating. Obviously this represents a significant investment by APL and you will therefore be required to deposit a security bond of £84,000 with them. Because this is a sponsored scheme, this entire £84,000 security bond will be repaid to you, tax-free, if you successfully complete all training, and join British Airways as a first officer.
I'm sure that wasn't there when I last checked!
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In a company that requires office bods to state how more staples would benefit IAG, the FPP scales would have been agreed/approved long in advance. The BA pay situation has been brewing for some time. The potential bmi integration merely brings it to the fore. I would imagine you would join circa pp34 point 7/8. If someone gets a copy of the new schedule A and looks to see how that fits into the paypoints on the new 34 point system, a better idea will be had.
The FPP scheme is no knight in shining armour, but look at the long term gain and it looks like a fantastic opportunity still. Not everyone applying to parc on they oaa/easy scheme will become an ezy TRI/LTC. They simply dont need that many. Yep its a huge debt to repay which ever way you enter the industry, but being in a stable company that does still value its employees, and has good Ts n Cs is a far beeter place to 'do your time'.
The FPP scheme is no knight in shining armour, but look at the long term gain and it looks like a fantastic opportunity still. Not everyone applying to parc on they oaa/easy scheme will become an ezy TRI/LTC. They simply dont need that many. Yep its a huge debt to repay which ever way you enter the industry, but being in a stable company that does still value its employees, and has good Ts n Cs is a far beeter place to 'do your time'.
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Yep its a huge debt to repay which ever way you enter the industry, but being in a stable company that does still value its employees, and has good Ts n Cs is a far beeter place to 'do your time'.
During the selection process for this years intake it was made quite clear on several occasions that BA had not launched the FPP sooner because they "Did not have the money" which I found quite interesting.
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Don't forget the tax-free £12k that FPP cadets are paid per year, for seven, in order to service the huge loan. This is something totally unique for a cadet scheme.
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No it isn't. That is why the company concerned was presumably selected to administer the scheme. It has been, and still is offered in similar formats with other selected airline cadet programmes.
I realise it did not come across this way but I was only meaning with respect to the school/airline schemes previously mentioned by BBB.
