Enough is enough
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 46
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Done a 1000+ hours in GA Instructing post license issue some time ago. Hours of time filling in on-line applications, only never to hear anything. Called for an interview at short notice once, but not sure anyone actually got hired out of it.
Enjoy a little bit of FI work still but my enthusiasm for chasing the dream is starting to run out.
I look at where most of my friends are - in better paid jobs, newer cars, bigger houses, more spare time, settled down with families. The reason I have none of those is because I have spent the last 10 years chasing the dream.
Enjoy a little bit of FI work still but my enthusiasm for chasing the dream is starting to run out.
I look at where most of my friends are - in better paid jobs, newer cars, bigger houses, more spare time, settled down with families. The reason I have none of those is because I have spent the last 10 years chasing the dream.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do agree with you, had nice job, house and girl friend but nothing left after chacing this dream why we should chace this dream which taking away all our comfort and happiness from our life but not given anything good in return 
I would say that in every thread it is same questions and anwsers. Most of us done everything but no job sitting on the net and post on pprune. I dont think this will help. It will be better to change a career
before it is too late.
Like many suggest if you dont have job get FI rating or do bush flying. But is there any jobs in those sectors? NO Lots of pilot out in africa looking for bush pilot jobs and many flight Instructors looking for there first job. Mean spend more money again no return , this is not what you call passion or full filling dream. Sorry if you dont like it.
Some would say, why dont you pay for TR with Hours and get job. But is there any guaranty for job .. NO.
Lots of punter out there suggesting for TR with hours but no gaurenty for job. Please dont waste your money.
I know, you would say that we have to start somewhere, yes you can start from somewhere but in aviation unfortunatly nothing left in this industry not near future.
Please I would suggest you all out there, dont waste your time looking for aviation jobs. Do somthing else which can bring happiness in your life not trouble and wait for the right time which i doubt it
Lot to write but it will be same again and again.
BEST OF LUCK TO YOU ALL THERE
I would say that in every thread it is same questions and anwsers. Most of us done everything but no job sitting on the net and post on pprune. I dont think this will help. It will be better to change a career
before it is too late.Like many suggest if you dont have job get FI rating or do bush flying. But is there any jobs in those sectors? NO Lots of pilot out in africa looking for bush pilot jobs and many flight Instructors looking for there first job. Mean spend more money again no return , this is not what you call passion or full filling dream. Sorry if you dont like it.
Some would say, why dont you pay for TR with Hours and get job. But is there any guaranty for job .. NO.
Lots of punter out there suggesting for TR with hours but no gaurenty for job. Please dont waste your money.
I know, you would say that we have to start somewhere, yes you can start from somewhere but in aviation unfortunatly nothing left in this industry not near future.
Please I would suggest you all out there, dont waste your time looking for aviation jobs. Do somthing else which can bring happiness in your life not trouble and wait for the right time which i doubt it
Lot to write but it will be same again and again.
BEST OF LUCK TO YOU ALL THERE
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: hong kong
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Those freaking jobs!!
I posted a comment or few a while back regarding the issue of RHS jobs in currency aeroplanes...the mantra was, get to Africa boys and girls and the seats will fall from the sky. Indeed, for a short time they did: 206 slots, BN2 and the odd PT6. then the SA wave happened, coupled with the NZ mob. Cheaper ATPl's and for the KIWIs, govt sponsored flying. The Africa sponge became saturated, unless you fancied Angola or Congo and yep, it's as taught as there now.
In the end, it's really about keeping the flame of interest alight until the very end. Agreed, the ATPl and the flying are hard yak but it all has to lead to a final and absolute purpose..a JOB! Forget Europe and the 320 endorsements, early command with Wizz and the sand pit slots with Air Arabia..it won't happen unles you have the turbine time!! ..... Get to. The Pacific. Take a look at Air Vanuatu..actually go there and knock on doors? Get a merchant deckie ticket and work a passage but just get there. take some kava, then look at Tonga, Solomons PNG. The jobs are there and when you do find them, Ill guarantee you won't be legging it straight back to Europe to Easy, Ryan et al. Just don't be put off by the distance!, in Santo, there are two 206 slots waiting for the take now...and Im not even looking for a job!,
fastina lentae...and best of luck!!
In the end, it's really about keeping the flame of interest alight until the very end. Agreed, the ATPl and the flying are hard yak but it all has to lead to a final and absolute purpose..a JOB! Forget Europe and the 320 endorsements, early command with Wizz and the sand pit slots with Air Arabia..it won't happen unles you have the turbine time!! ..... Get to. The Pacific. Take a look at Air Vanuatu..actually go there and knock on doors? Get a merchant deckie ticket and work a passage but just get there. take some kava, then look at Tonga, Solomons PNG. The jobs are there and when you do find them, Ill guarantee you won't be legging it straight back to Europe to Easy, Ryan et al. Just don't be put off by the distance!, in Santo, there are two 206 slots waiting for the take now...and Im not even looking for a job!,
fastina lentae...and best of luck!!
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: somewhere on this planet
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
still, it' s not a jet job or a well paid job , just a few jobs for desperate pilots ready to log a few hundred hours at 500-800$ a month on their single junk plane .
Plus ad the flight ticket to go to your island, maintain your icense(doc, sim, flight check,...), at the end, you are still a poor desperate chap looking for a home and most pilots will come back to momy with their useless 1000h of single pilot, single engine, !!!!
(something like:30yo, no job, no home, fly for food!!!
).
Plus ad the flight ticket to go to your island, maintain your icense(doc, sim, flight check,...), at the end, you are still a poor desperate chap looking for a home and most pilots will come back to momy with their useless 1000h of single pilot, single engine, !!!!
(something like:30yo, no job, no home, fly for food!!!).
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Asia CFI jobs
Oh yes... China, Malaysia and the like seem to have plenty of CFI jobs but finding them is the trouble, they are not as adequately advertised as western CFI jobs at all and you really have to hunt for them. problem school such as JTIFS in China can be a B**tch of a land mine for starting-out CFI's which is why websites like Jetcareers and PPRuNe are such an asset to pilots, we NEED to stick together and heed each others advice!
I'm a wannabe and just starting out in this game yet I'm networking like crazy, anyone who's giving hours I'm getting them, I can't afford P2F schemes and heeding the advice of PPRuNe's old guard I'm not even thinking about it, these types of schemes damage the industry worse than FlyForFree starting out jobs ever could, you're basically telling employers that your skills are so worthless you should be paying them!
I'm guilty of contacting JTIFS in China but only to get their latest and greatest on their CFI contracts (As if they won't lie through their teeth, we really need an update on this academy since the last posts regarding it are quite dated, I guess nobody has any new information yet), as a newbie instructor 18 months as a CFI on dog-crap wages is better than a kick in the teeth, we all need hours starting out and Chinas cost of living is pretty low, as long as I'm not eating Mc dog testicle sandwiches for tea all is good, I've researched life in Qingdao, Linyi etc and am confident I could make it there, I won't delve into my own past but given relative experience China doesn't sound like such a huge challenge to me.
I am pursuing other schools though, CFI is a solid hours building route, time tested and still relevant in todays aviation according to the old guard, as you gain experience not only do things like the Cathay CPP take you a little more seriously (as I'm told CFI hours are notable) but you also gain experience as a CFI in itself, giving you more room to wriggle around while chasing that dream, Chinas aviation sector is slowly (Snails pace) opening up and any economy major worth the paper his diploma is printed on will tell you that due to years of outsourcing by the west China has a big stick these days, it makes sense to at least attempt forging some kind of career out there.
I'm already hitting the Rosetta Stone books and setting up meeting Chinese students from a local uni college because they need the practice and so do I. I am prepared to go the distance to achieve my goals and at 22 I have very little to loose, however I am working on academic assets to assist a career gear shift should my best laid plans fall flat on their face (which according to PPRuNe, is around an 80% possibility).
It's all about the motivation it seems, if you're willing to all out, do anything and go anywhere in this game and have the stamina to withstand the torrent of sh*t you have to push through starting out, you stand a chance.
Still, what do I know? I'm just a newbie after all.
You know what they say, chase your dreams but don't give up your day job.
Good luck out there guys!
I'm a wannabe and just starting out in this game yet I'm networking like crazy, anyone who's giving hours I'm getting them, I can't afford P2F schemes and heeding the advice of PPRuNe's old guard I'm not even thinking about it, these types of schemes damage the industry worse than FlyForFree starting out jobs ever could, you're basically telling employers that your skills are so worthless you should be paying them!
I'm guilty of contacting JTIFS in China but only to get their latest and greatest on their CFI contracts (As if they won't lie through their teeth, we really need an update on this academy since the last posts regarding it are quite dated, I guess nobody has any new information yet), as a newbie instructor 18 months as a CFI on dog-crap wages is better than a kick in the teeth, we all need hours starting out and Chinas cost of living is pretty low, as long as I'm not eating Mc dog testicle sandwiches for tea all is good, I've researched life in Qingdao, Linyi etc and am confident I could make it there, I won't delve into my own past but given relative experience China doesn't sound like such a huge challenge to me.
I am pursuing other schools though, CFI is a solid hours building route, time tested and still relevant in todays aviation according to the old guard, as you gain experience not only do things like the Cathay CPP take you a little more seriously (as I'm told CFI hours are notable) but you also gain experience as a CFI in itself, giving you more room to wriggle around while chasing that dream, Chinas aviation sector is slowly (Snails pace) opening up and any economy major worth the paper his diploma is printed on will tell you that due to years of outsourcing by the west China has a big stick these days, it makes sense to at least attempt forging some kind of career out there.
I'm already hitting the Rosetta Stone books and setting up meeting Chinese students from a local uni college because they need the practice and so do I. I am prepared to go the distance to achieve my goals and at 22 I have very little to loose, however I am working on academic assets to assist a career gear shift should my best laid plans fall flat on their face (which according to PPRuNe, is around an 80% possibility).
It's all about the motivation it seems, if you're willing to all out, do anything and go anywhere in this game and have the stamina to withstand the torrent of sh*t you have to push through starting out, you stand a chance.
Still, what do I know? I'm just a newbie after all.
You know what they say, chase your dreams but don't give up your day job.
Good luck out there guys!
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: somewhere on this planet
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DCA malaysia: 500-700h dual
DCA thailand:500-700 dual
China: don't know but most of the schools are now closed (PANAM bejing, DA42 covered with yellow dust)
Indonesia: no idea
the rest of the world: need hours, need to be citizen, or need a greencard.
yes plenty of job around, the pilot shortage is here
, but not for EU pilot.
if you belive you can get a job because you are a FI, you are wrong or take it now..
first: you need over 500h dual for immigration&DCA
second: it doesn't mean you will get a job, if there is no job, there is NO job!even if your name is John Travolta.
again and again and again: do something else, get a non flying job, get a girlfriend, make babies, get married, buy a car, a house with a dog... whatever! because in 5 years, it' s going to be the same s.t . in 10 years, the same,...in 50 years the same s...t!!!
what you want do in your life?: wait that airlines will call you to play the pilot, it won't happen! airline don't call pilot, you call them and they tell you what you have to do.If they want your money, they will get it.
They will never pay pilots, why should they? this industry will sink as long our government don't step up (like in the USA) and say:" now stop P2f, start to pay your pilots"
As long they can spit to your face day after day, aviation jobs all around the earth will disapear one after one and one day it will be like in Greece, where our teenagers (and everybody)will cheat the system then the decline will happen and it will be war!. (oh my gGod, it's already happening in Nordway)
DCA thailand:500-700 dual
China: don't know but most of the schools are now closed (PANAM bejing, DA42 covered with yellow dust)
Indonesia: no idea
the rest of the world: need hours, need to be citizen, or need a greencard.
yes plenty of job around, the pilot shortage is here
, but not for EU pilot.if you belive you can get a job because you are a FI, you are wrong or take it now..
first: you need over 500h dual for immigration&DCA
second: it doesn't mean you will get a job, if there is no job, there is NO job!even if your name is John Travolta.
again and again and again: do something else, get a non flying job, get a girlfriend, make babies, get married, buy a car, a house with a dog... whatever! because in 5 years, it' s going to be the same s.t . in 10 years, the same,...in 50 years the same s...t!!!
what you want do in your life?: wait that airlines will call you to play the pilot, it won't happen! airline don't call pilot, you call them and they tell you what you have to do.If they want your money, they will get it.
They will never pay pilots, why should they? this industry will sink as long our government don't step up (like in the USA) and say:" now stop P2f, start to pay your pilots"
As long they can spit to your face day after day, aviation jobs all around the earth will disapear one after one and one day it will be like in Greece, where our teenagers (and everybody)will cheat the system
then the decline will happen and it will be war!. (oh my gGod, it's already happening in Nordway)
Last edited by captainsuperstorm; 24th Jul 2011 at 12:45.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Inthezoo
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Praticallybroke, are you after BA or Cathay or emirate big jet job with you 500 hours? If thats the case good luck, but if you wanna get a pilot job and start where most pilots starts then it's worth leaving your mums house stop feeling sorry for your self go to Africa or south east Asia work/suffer for a couple of years if you survive it you will end up with a couple of thousands hours turboprop or jets then you are set for whatever job you dreamed of before you went to your lying school, I'm telling this from experience and I've been unemployed for 4 years till I got sick of feeling sorry for myself and went got a job in a third maybe forth world country, I hate every single minutes here but I'm still flying an aircraft that I would never have dreamed of flying if I stayed at mums house I wasn't lucky to get a job here because whoever determined enough to find a job and plan to hang around here in southeast Asia long enough will eventually get a job. Good luck
Get up and go look for a job, filling apps will never get you flying
Get up and go look for a job, filling apps will never get you flying
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: here
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
monkeyflying is right,except there is no more job in Asia since 2008.Asia and south Asia is for asian people or lot of luck if you have 4000-6000h total+ type.Try in Hong Kong or Indonesia.
Sorry for my bad english, I will try to explian you a few things:
you can only be a FI if you have 700h dual(set by DCA).Still most schools are running out of cash and out of students.What I know is Asian schools got students in 2008, most have been unemployed since and passed the word.
80'000 euro for a training in Asia is very expensive for them and most have refused to be enrolled or didn't find any financial support.
I still don't understand how this market works where everybody ask for 500h on type, how do you change aircraft?do these airlines send you to other airlines and ask you to pay them to fly, then come back with your 500h?what's the point?if airline don't want you because you don't have the 500 magical hours on type , why someone else want you?.
This market is for top gun pilots with 5000h on type and still flying jet , they can be promoted captain in 1 year or less , or no experience at all.
We, the non top gun pilot with no much experience , who have been dumb enough to self sponsore in these "they neeeeeeed pilots" 'schools, regrettably we have discovered (after we've spent all our money) that there is no market for us unless you want go to africa at 500$ a month (if they pay the 20$ a day they own you, thank you guys to lower yourself))where they don't respect MTOW and maintenance, and you life expectation will be cut by 3.
Do you really think you will get a 320/737 job with your 2000 hours piston engine plane?
Try these islands between australia and US(pacific Islands), paid 6000$ a year or 20$ a day,( thank you guy to screw our life by lowering yourself) to carry tourists.
You make barely just enough to come back to see your girlfriend and your parents once a year and say you are a real well paid (uhuh!)professional pilot with plenty of single engine time (that nobody want when reaching 30-40 yo) but say to everybody with these hours thay you have a chance to fly a jet so your parents finally see it was a very good investment.
Now I will explain you why this aviation is screwed, specially the aviation in Europe.The LCC didn't screwed us, it's the system.
Take a EU guy (a guy like you, who has just enough cash and no rich parents), he needs to spend 100'000 euro in his commercial license, he get for his money 200h only and a cpl+14 ATP test.
In the other hand take a US, canadian, or an Australian pilot, he pays 3-4 times less than the JAA course, with the rest of the money left he can become a FI, or rent a plane and log plenty of hours for skydivers, banner towing, traffic watch,....
who do you think a company will hire? the canadian or US guys with practical experience and 1000h-3000h total , or a 200guy with 14 CAA "check the box" exams?
you decide but based on insurance requirement, I know a company will take the 3000hours guys insted of the 200h and his 14 CAA check the box exams.
This is why this system in Europe is not working and will never work for us in my point of view (I am realist, not a jet dreamers). Now if you say there are plenty of jobs in Saudia, India,...Well take these jobs and good luck to you, because it won't happen for EU pilots with no money like me and in a bad economic climate, don't think airlines will pay you a 320 rating + nice salary,...you will get nothing!
and to finish, when Europe has created the JAA license, job are only for EU people (exactly like in the USA with their FAA and green card ), India by example have decided to kick all foreigners out a few years ago, and you must be indian to get a job as a copilot there.
Indian people can not get job in europe, tell me why a EU guy can work in India?
We block them, they block us.
and to ad the cherry on the cake, we have now in europe the P2F scheme.P2F means you pay you fly, you don't pay you don't fly.
A copilot must pay the airline if he want work.
these P2F are prohibided in the 50 states of America , but totally legal in Europe.
Explain me?it seems to me rules are totally different and slavery is still legal in Europe.
Rant over, I think I have resume here all the problems we have in Europe!
Good luck to you to realize your dream, many will fail and then will come back totally broke on pprune to write things like: you have to try, I know a friend,(me too I know a friend who is at BA on 320,....)....
Sorry for my bad english, I will try to explian you a few things:
you can only be a FI if you have 700h dual(set by DCA).Still most schools are running out of cash and out of students.What I know is Asian schools got students in 2008, most have been unemployed since and passed the word.
80'000 euro for a training in Asia is very expensive for them and most have refused to be enrolled or didn't find any financial support.
I still don't understand how this market works where everybody ask for 500h on type, how do you change aircraft?do these airlines send you to other airlines and ask you to pay them to fly, then come back with your 500h?what's the point?if airline don't want you because you don't have the 500 magical hours on type , why someone else want you?.
This market is for top gun pilots with 5000h on type and still flying jet , they can be promoted captain in 1 year or less , or no experience at all.
We, the non top gun pilot with no much experience , who have been dumb enough to self sponsore in these "they neeeeeeed pilots" 'schools, regrettably we have discovered (after we've spent all our money) that there is no market for us unless you want go to africa at 500$ a month (if they pay the 20$ a day they own you, thank you guys to lower yourself))where they don't respect MTOW and maintenance, and you life expectation will be cut by 3.
Do you really think you will get a 320/737 job with your 2000 hours piston engine plane?
Try these islands between australia and US(pacific Islands), paid 6000$ a year or 20$ a day,( thank you guy to screw our life by lowering yourself) to carry tourists.
You make barely just enough to come back to see your girlfriend and your parents once a year and say you are a real well paid (uhuh!)professional pilot with plenty of single engine time (that nobody want when reaching 30-40 yo) but say to everybody with these hours thay you have a chance to fly a jet so your parents finally see it was a very good investment.
Now I will explain you why this aviation is screwed, specially the aviation in Europe.The LCC didn't screwed us, it's the system.
Take a EU guy (a guy like you, who has just enough cash and no rich parents), he needs to spend 100'000 euro in his commercial license, he get for his money 200h only and a cpl+14 ATP test.
In the other hand take a US, canadian, or an Australian pilot, he pays 3-4 times less than the JAA course, with the rest of the money left he can become a FI, or rent a plane and log plenty of hours for skydivers, banner towing, traffic watch,....
who do you think a company will hire? the canadian or US guys with practical experience and 1000h-3000h total , or a 200guy with 14 CAA "check the box" exams?
you decide but based on insurance requirement, I know a company will take the 3000hours guys insted of the 200h and his 14 CAA check the box exams.
This is why this system in Europe is not working and will never work for us in my point of view (I am realist, not a jet dreamers). Now if you say there are plenty of jobs in Saudia, India,...Well take these jobs and good luck to you, because it won't happen for EU pilots with no money like me and in a bad economic climate, don't think airlines will pay you a 320 rating + nice salary,...you will get nothing!
and to finish, when Europe has created the JAA license, job are only for EU people (exactly like in the USA with their FAA and green card ), India by example have decided to kick all foreigners out a few years ago, and you must be indian to get a job as a copilot there.
Indian people can not get job in europe, tell me why a EU guy can work in India?
We block them, they block us.
and to ad the cherry on the cake, we have now in europe the P2F scheme.P2F means you pay you fly, you don't pay you don't fly.
A copilot must pay the airline if he want work.
these P2F are prohibided in the 50 states of America , but totally legal in Europe.
Explain me?it seems to me rules are totally different and slavery is still legal in Europe.
Rant over, I think I have resume here all the problems we have in Europe!
Good luck to you to realize your dream, many will fail and then will come back totally broke on pprune to write things like: you have to try, I know a friend,(me too I know a friend who is at BA on 320,....)....
Last edited by usualguy; 9th Sep 2011 at 10:51.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Aimlessly wandering
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
50 50
Hello all,
My first post yay! It seems that most of the writers in this post are from the UK, but I could be wrong. Let me assure you that things are just as dire down here in Australia. Most jobs going wanted 4000 plus hours 12 months ago. However i am seeing things turn around and some only want 300-400 now. In response to the comment "Get a life outside aviation", i reply: Aviation is my life outside my regular job. Expensive? YES, a waste? Not at all. I go to work to make money, simple as that, if it allows me to fly then the pitifully uninspiring task that i call a job is not quite as painful. (Barely).
Question: Do we fly because we want money, or do we fly because we want to fly?
By the way, I called myself 50 50 because with my luck with weather there is only a 50% chance i will get off the ground in the first place.
My first post yay! It seems that most of the writers in this post are from the UK, but I could be wrong. Let me assure you that things are just as dire down here in Australia. Most jobs going wanted 4000 plus hours 12 months ago. However i am seeing things turn around and some only want 300-400 now. In response to the comment "Get a life outside aviation", i reply: Aviation is my life outside my regular job. Expensive? YES, a waste? Not at all. I go to work to make money, simple as that, if it allows me to fly then the pitifully uninspiring task that i call a job is not quite as painful. (Barely).
Question: Do we fly because we want money, or do we fly because we want to fly?
By the way, I called myself 50 50 because with my luck with weather there is only a 50% chance i will get off the ground in the first place.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Italy and ME
Age: 37
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with 50 50.I believe most of us started flying because we are passionate about it.Not because we wanted to end up in a 320 or to get rich.So why not (for example) get an FI rating, have fun flying small airplanes and wait for an airline job in due time?A Flying job should be a pleasure (not about what type you fly), and looking for it shouldn't become an obsession.I believe the biggest issue we have is that we cannot wait for the things we want anything anymore......I want that song NOW: then Shazam it, Itune it and buy it instantly.........I want to be an A320 F/O NOW: Integrated training, TR + P2F...
