Fed up with this career
P2F and SSTR are only here to stay as long as the proper airlines aren't hiring
Alas, no one can blame you for what you have already done
I spoke with experienced FIs and with Captains and First Officers from a variety of UK and US airlines, from cargo and charter operations to flag carriers, all of whom reluctantly advised the RYR route as being the only one available at the time.
I took that advice and looking around me I realise it's not a bad place to be.
Yet, it's amazing how many experienced pilots on Pprune criticise new entries to the profession for taking the only available option. Meantime, everybody I have met in the real world has encouraged me down this route and applauded the hard work I've put in to reach this point.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: @ some hotel far away from everything
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree that one can`t really blame newcomers to the 
industry for having to either do a SSTR or, even worse, a P2F route. They are entering a industry that has been molded by beancounters, locos, and pilots who have set this all-time low standard for being hired. I`m sure that no-one in their right mind wants to pay for training, or hours, to fly commercially. The downfall after 9/11 played a huge role in this, then came the locos with RYR at the head position offering jobs to 300 hour pilots as long as they paid for everything through them. And when things finally started looking a bit brighter, you know, the light at the end of the tunnel, then BOOM!!! we have a full fledged economic crisis on our hands due to loans and debts and such. So you can`t really blame one person, or a seemingly group of people who almost have no other option for a career, especially when they get played against each other from flight schools and TRTOs from the beginning. The industry is and it`s not getting any better. P2F is becoming the norm. MPL is deemed safe and proper. More liberal FTLs. Less pay. 6 month contracts. 
And, unfortunately, there is absolutely no media-emphasis on this because, hey, pilots live a glamorous life. No? 
The way things are now, and have been for awhile, would make you think that nobody with half a brain would even dream about getting into commercial flying! I`m hoping that one day there will be laws agains SSTRs, P2F and banning of MPL licensing. And proper wages, and maybe being able to have a lifestyle somewhere between the 70s and 80s, and where we are today. But I`m afraid it will be at the cost of an accident. 
industry for having to either do a SSTR or, even worse, a P2F route. They are entering a industry that has been molded by beancounters, locos, and pilots who have set this all-time low standard for being hired. I`m sure that no-one in their right mind wants to pay for training, or hours, to fly commercially. The downfall after 9/11 played a huge role in this, then came the locos with RYR at the head position offering jobs to 300 hour pilots as long as they paid for everything through them. And when things finally started looking a bit brighter, you know, the light at the end of the tunnel, then BOOM!!! we have a full fledged economic crisis on our hands due to loans and debts and such. So you can`t really blame one person, or a seemingly group of people who almost have no other option for a career, especially when they get played against each other from flight schools and TRTOs from the beginning. The industry is and it`s not getting any better. P2F is becoming the norm. MPL is deemed safe and proper. More liberal FTLs. Less pay. 6 month contracts. And, unfortunately, there is absolutely no media-emphasis on this because, hey, pilots live a glamorous life. No? The way things are now, and have been for awhile, would make you think that nobody with half a brain would even dream about getting into commercial flying! I`m hoping that one day there will be laws agains SSTRs, P2F and banning of MPL licensing. And proper wages, and maybe being able to have a lifestyle somewhere between the 70s and 80s, and where we are today. But I`m afraid it will be at the cost of an accident.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mikehotel152, I think you have made an honest and factual reflection about the current state of the industry. You mention experienced pilots; people who have been in the industry for many years. Traditionally, in my experience, I find these people coming from three routes - the armed forces, airline sponsorship, or self-improvement. Each one is an extremely enviable background to have, and I reckon 99/100 pilots would agree that these should always have remained the only paths into our industry. Yet presently each path holds very little or no value whatsoever.
Take self improvement for example. In my opinion this route would mould a pilot from basic SEP flying, to instructing, to air taxi/charter, turboprop then jet. If anyone were to ask me I would STILL argue it's case, especially the instructional path as it is an extremely rewarding challenge. In terms of initial outlay, the course was around the 6K mark when I embarked upon it. In terms of financial return; forget it! In terms of experience; unrivalled! In relation to making the next step up; debatable? Guys who I started my commercial training with 4 to 5 years ago are still stuck here. They are extremely disillusioned. More so than anyone here claiming to be fed up with their profession. They can't get charter work (what's left of it) because they don't have the relevant MEP time, they have struggled to make it into the RHS of a turboprop because the jobs simply aren't there and when the do arrive (take FlyBe for example - the biggest TP operator in the UK) the preference is to recruit 150-200 hr wonders from integrated schools. I have one friend who made it into the RHS of a well regarded regional operator from my neck of the woods. He waited years, swam in hold pools, was told one thing then another. He got there in the end (Hey Mike!) along with a few others; thankfully due to the fact of where they were from and the experience that they had (all instructors). However the case that I am able to refer to is now extremely unique. A mixture of good fortune, right place right time, and of course the ability to stay current enough to pass a sim assessment!
When I was going through the FIC, the kind of dross that was out there (when recruitment was considered to be 'buoyant') was a job in a B200 where you were bonded for 20K, with an added 6k recurrency bond for 300hrs a year and a 12hr 'on call' duty period. The salary was sh1te and would have led to my wife and small child claiming poverty. The flying, when it happened, would have been fantastic; but that's it. The experience, in the same way as instructing, would have been overlooked in favour of someone willing to pay for the SSTR. That, as unfortunate as it is, is where we are today. On another thread we have guys in FlyBe who are struggling with conditions on the Dash Q400. They have amassed thousands of hours but can't get out. Jet airlines aren't interested in their valuable experience. Why; because experience is expensive. Kids arriving in FTOs are now being informed of the new route. CPL/IR (soon to be a universal wide MPL) - MCC - Jet. Just hand over the 80-100K. They won't have heard of self improvement. I had a 200hr wonder sitting in the jumpseat the other day actually snigger at the fact that I had embarked on an FIC course and came within a baw hair of a job on a C406 (the operator has since went bust). I was astounded by his disregard - and I haven't even been doing this that long!
And as for the beancounters - they fully tap into this. The only way it will change is when people start leaving. When the experience void is too big to fill, when there isn't enough people to upgrade; when ultimately there isn't enough crew to cover their operation.
Take self improvement for example. In my opinion this route would mould a pilot from basic SEP flying, to instructing, to air taxi/charter, turboprop then jet. If anyone were to ask me I would STILL argue it's case, especially the instructional path as it is an extremely rewarding challenge. In terms of initial outlay, the course was around the 6K mark when I embarked upon it. In terms of financial return; forget it! In terms of experience; unrivalled! In relation to making the next step up; debatable? Guys who I started my commercial training with 4 to 5 years ago are still stuck here. They are extremely disillusioned. More so than anyone here claiming to be fed up with their profession. They can't get charter work (what's left of it) because they don't have the relevant MEP time, they have struggled to make it into the RHS of a turboprop because the jobs simply aren't there and when the do arrive (take FlyBe for example - the biggest TP operator in the UK) the preference is to recruit 150-200 hr wonders from integrated schools. I have one friend who made it into the RHS of a well regarded regional operator from my neck of the woods. He waited years, swam in hold pools, was told one thing then another. He got there in the end (Hey Mike!) along with a few others; thankfully due to the fact of where they were from and the experience that they had (all instructors). However the case that I am able to refer to is now extremely unique. A mixture of good fortune, right place right time, and of course the ability to stay current enough to pass a sim assessment!
When I was going through the FIC, the kind of dross that was out there (when recruitment was considered to be 'buoyant') was a job in a B200 where you were bonded for 20K, with an added 6k recurrency bond for 300hrs a year and a 12hr 'on call' duty period. The salary was sh1te and would have led to my wife and small child claiming poverty. The flying, when it happened, would have been fantastic; but that's it. The experience, in the same way as instructing, would have been overlooked in favour of someone willing to pay for the SSTR. That, as unfortunate as it is, is where we are today. On another thread we have guys in FlyBe who are struggling with conditions on the Dash Q400. They have amassed thousands of hours but can't get out. Jet airlines aren't interested in their valuable experience. Why; because experience is expensive. Kids arriving in FTOs are now being informed of the new route. CPL/IR (soon to be a universal wide MPL) - MCC - Jet. Just hand over the 80-100K. They won't have heard of self improvement. I had a 200hr wonder sitting in the jumpseat the other day actually snigger at the fact that I had embarked on an FIC course and came within a baw hair of a job on a C406 (the operator has since went bust). I was astounded by his disregard - and I haven't even been doing this that long!
And as for the beancounters - they fully tap into this. The only way it will change is when people start leaving. When the experience void is too big to fill, when there isn't enough people to upgrade; when ultimately there isn't enough crew to cover their operation.
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 8th Aug 2010 at 10:41.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Well ... the US congress has just legislated a minimum of 1500 hours be required to pilot a part 25 (i.e. airliner) aircraft ... that should pretty much kill the P2F industry over there, albeit it's nowhere nearly as badly entrenched there as it is in Europe.
Sadly it will probably take a fatal accident, as it did in the US, for the European politicians to get off their backsides and legislate something similar (and probably a lot more intense lobbying, because the floggers of the rip off schemes actually represent some serious big business now) but wouldnt that be fantastic if it came to pass. For the travelling public AND for the future T&C's of airline pilots.
It would represent a pretty seismic shift in the aspirations and expectations of the European wannabe fraternity - and no doubt 3/4 of the wannabes would kick and scream and fight against it because lets face it, it's clearly obvious from the continued rise of P2F that most of you don't want to go and fly lighties when you have even the glimmer of a fool's fantasy of a chance of flying a big aircraft, at any price - but just like a big spoonful of cod liver oil it would ultimately be for your own good
Sadly it will probably take a fatal accident, as it did in the US, for the European politicians to get off their backsides and legislate something similar (and probably a lot more intense lobbying, because the floggers of the rip off schemes actually represent some serious big business now) but wouldnt that be fantastic if it came to pass. For the travelling public AND for the future T&C's of airline pilots.
It would represent a pretty seismic shift in the aspirations and expectations of the European wannabe fraternity - and no doubt 3/4 of the wannabes would kick and scream and fight against it because lets face it, it's clearly obvious from the continued rise of P2F that most of you don't want to go and fly lighties when you have even the glimmer of a fool's fantasy of a chance of flying a big aircraft, at any price - but just like a big spoonful of cod liver oil it would ultimately be for your own good
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would represent a pretty seismic shift in the aspirations and expectations of the European wannabe fraternity - and no doubt 3/4 of the wannabes would kick and scream and fight against it because lets face it, it's clearly obvious from the continued rise of P2F that most of you don't want to go and fly lighties when you have even the glimmer of a fool's fantasy of a chance of flying a big aircraft, at any price - but just like a big spoonful of cod liver oil it would ultimately be for your own good
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: "Paradiso”
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"I'd Do This Job For Free....."
Until people stop using phrases like "I love what I do", "I'm the luckiest guy in the world" and the best one "I can't believe i get paid to do this", the career will continue to drop further and further down the ****ter, with or without 200 hour PFTers.
Management knows you all have the "LOVE of FLYING" and wouldn't know what to do if you were pulled screaming from the cockpit and they will exploit it at every opportunity.
Goodbye improved T&Cs...
ELS
Management knows you all have the "LOVE of FLYING" and wouldn't know what to do if you were pulled screaming from the cockpit and they will exploit it at every opportunity.
Goodbye improved T&Cs...
ELS
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be honest I don't see management falling for the "I've made considerable financial sacrifices to do a job that I really despise" school of thought!
No one is telling them "I love this more than life itself, thank you, thank you, thank you." They are aware of the money invested in order to do it. This has to be made viable by the pilot. They are also aware that we will turn our backs in a minute when something better comes along. Until then it is their ballgame.
No one is telling them "I love this more than life itself, thank you, thank you, thank you." They are aware of the money invested in order to do it. This has to be made viable by the pilot. They are also aware that we will turn our backs in a minute when something better comes along. Until then it is their ballgame.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Everywhere and nowhere
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a thought...
All markets, including the Pilot market is built on "supply and demand".
Current pilot supply: about 5.000
Demand from airlines: max 200 jobs
So guess what! Airlines are taking advantage of this...
Not a big surprise there, but due to the fact that many pilots (not all pilots, but many) come from a good economic background, many are both willing and able to accept worse T&C's to get into the cockpit...
Once the demand for pilots increases (and a pilot shortage is predicted by 2014!) then the T&C's will automatically get better and better!
Even Ryan Air will need to start offering industry standard (no, not current industry standards, but those as they were in 2007! Or else O'Leary will need to get his own ATP to keep "cattle class" in existence.
Perhaps a Union for unemployed pilots and starting pilots would be a way to battle these conditions! That way we can all say NO! collectively to less-than-minimum wages and horrid T&C's... Just a thought...
Current pilot supply: about 5.000
Demand from airlines: max 200 jobs
So guess what! Airlines are taking advantage of this...
Not a big surprise there, but due to the fact that many pilots (not all pilots, but many) come from a good economic background, many are both willing and able to accept worse T&C's to get into the cockpit...
Once the demand for pilots increases (and a pilot shortage is predicted by 2014!) then the T&C's will automatically get better and better!
Even Ryan Air will need to start offering industry standard (no, not current industry standards, but those as they were in 2007! Or else O'Leary will need to get his own ATP to keep "cattle class" in existence.
Perhaps a Union for unemployed pilots and starting pilots would be a way to battle these conditions! That way we can all say NO! collectively to less-than-minimum wages and horrid T&C's... Just a thought...
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: PlanetEarth
Age: 44
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cabinready - you are 34 years, have 3500 TT - and you are moaning like a baby! Sorry - but you know there people who would give their arm and their leg to be in your position!
Cabinready, not being offensive - so please don't misunderstand me, but you will be in pole position of many when the good days does come back soon!
Now if you are so unhappy with what you are doing and your prospects there are things you can do.
Talk to your boss.
Quit - there are jobs at Tesco, Mcdonalds and ASDA.
Go back to school and change career.
Apply with other companies, at least with your TT you will be considered by other companies/airlines.
The P2F - is not with the majority of airlines, maybe TR paid by the pilot will become the future with all - still I guess this depends on supply and demand.
Sometimes one does not appreciate what one has until one no longer have it!
I am curious, this "terrible job" you have, how many years have you been doing that job?
Your frustration is less than new CPL's, who can't even get a FI job at the moment, because the market is saturated. I would be happy to swap your log book with mine, even if it meant I now for a while would be unemployed! Who wouldn't?
Cabinready, not being offensive - so please don't misunderstand me, but you will be in pole position of many when the good days does come back soon!
Now if you are so unhappy with what you are doing and your prospects there are things you can do.
Talk to your boss.
Quit - there are jobs at Tesco, Mcdonalds and ASDA.
Go back to school and change career.
Apply with other companies, at least with your TT you will be considered by other companies/airlines.
The P2F - is not with the majority of airlines, maybe TR paid by the pilot will become the future with all - still I guess this depends on supply and demand.
Sometimes one does not appreciate what one has until one no longer have it!
I am curious, this "terrible job" you have, how many years have you been doing that job?
Your frustration is less than new CPL's, who can't even get a FI job at the moment, because the market is saturated. I would be happy to swap your log book with mine, even if it meant I now for a while would be unemployed! Who wouldn't?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: uk
Age: 48
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MagicTiger its ok no offence taken. The whole thread was started so I could air my frustrations (rightly or wrongly). The whole problem is that the experience I have gained from various flying jobs seems to be almost useless despite it being jet/ glass cockpit. The problem is that for airline jobs they (the HR depts) appear to love the 200 hour wonder kids. As already stated here airline managment love them and they love the prospect of flying a shinny jet instead of starting on the bottom rung of the career ladder. For instance theres already cadet schemes in the pipeline for various airlines although there is a good surplus of already experienced pilots out there.Crazy. Why take someone with less experience when theres already guys out there with thousands of hours?
They have turned the RHS into the most costly seat in the whole aeroplane and these kids dont mind working for nothing on a 6 month contract, after a few hundred hours probably being binned for the next wonderkid with 30K burning a hole in his back pocket. I dont doubt that some of these 200 hour wonderkids can fly with an autopilot although what happens when something goes wrong and theres a screaming x wind on a dark and stormy night into a procedural only field? The whole concept and word "crew" implies that the members work together on the flight deck although how can this be happening in the modern flightdeck; the captain is flying single crew Im affraid; and the first officer has bought his seat like all the other passengers in the aeroplane. The problem is that these characters have never served their time in any other aeroplane or seen the industry from a different angle.
How long will it be for schemes to start for LHS ratings and hours just so you can jump the job market and have command time flying your shinny jet for no pay or conditions.
I do love flying and me ranting about the system will not change a thing, granted. I do have to think whether in the long term I do need to cash my chips in and start a new career. The main worry is that one can gain all this experience earned the hard way but its not really valued and sometimes its seen as a negative.
They have turned the RHS into the most costly seat in the whole aeroplane and these kids dont mind working for nothing on a 6 month contract, after a few hundred hours probably being binned for the next wonderkid with 30K burning a hole in his back pocket. I dont doubt that some of these 200 hour wonderkids can fly with an autopilot although what happens when something goes wrong and theres a screaming x wind on a dark and stormy night into a procedural only field? The whole concept and word "crew" implies that the members work together on the flight deck although how can this be happening in the modern flightdeck; the captain is flying single crew Im affraid; and the first officer has bought his seat like all the other passengers in the aeroplane. The problem is that these characters have never served their time in any other aeroplane or seen the industry from a different angle.
How long will it be for schemes to start for LHS ratings and hours just so you can jump the job market and have command time flying your shinny jet for no pay or conditions.
I do love flying and me ranting about the system will not change a thing, granted. I do have to think whether in the long term I do need to cash my chips in and start a new career. The main worry is that one can gain all this experience earned the hard way but its not really valued and sometimes its seen as a negative.
The olde days of the integrated golden wonders and the 700 hour sluggers (where one knew ones place in the pecking order) did wonders..
Where did it all go wrong?
I think this is a trend in society itself, where people now expect "something for nothing".
When you "expect" RHS Jet after 200TT.. and then cry when it fails to materialize... well that says it all really.
Their was a time that "FI" was a dirty word... but a necessary one. Now though... that word fails even to exist in the newly minted licence holders vocabulary!
It is all about ME ME ME.
Where did it all go wrong?
I think this is a trend in society itself, where people now expect "something for nothing".
When you "expect" RHS Jet after 200TT.. and then cry when it fails to materialize... well that says it all really.
Their was a time that "FI" was a dirty word... but a necessary one. Now though... that word fails even to exist in the newly minted licence holders vocabulary!
It is all about ME ME ME.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: PlanetEarth
Age: 44
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree flash8
Think it is the fast-food nation, high speed information, we want everything yesterday, no time for tomorrow or today.
I would be happy to instruct until I got 700 - 1000 hours, but today you have pilots with 800 - 1500 hours working as FI's, not getting to the next step.
That's the problem now.
Think it is the fast-food nation, high speed information, we want everything yesterday, no time for tomorrow or today.
I would be happy to instruct until I got 700 - 1000 hours, but today you have pilots with 800 - 1500 hours working as FI's, not getting to the next step.
That's the problem now.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would be happy to instruct until I got 700 - 1000 hours, but today you have pilots with 800 - 1500 hours working as FI's, not getting to the next step.
Well ... the US congress has just legislated a minimum of 1500 hours be required to pilot a part 25 (i.e. airliner) aircraft ... that should pretty much kill the P2F industry over there
So far I have refused to join the SSTR merry go round but only this weekend I was asked if I had got a job yet. When I discussed my situation and concerns on the industry, I was told 'well it's what you have to do to get a foot in the door'. This from a 757 captain with many thousands of hours.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your quite correct the self improvement route, as worthy as it was, is finished. I find that very disappointing. There will always be an exception, however as you observe no one is moving anywhere by the "traditional" means. The experience that you gain as an instructor, tug pilot, banner tower or air taxi pilot will personally be worth while in terms of your development and experience, but means nothing to the airlines by and large. They know they can stick a 200hr bod in a TR course successfully. If they can charge for it, even better.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: A laser guided drone
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It quite sad to think the traditional route is gone for the foresseable future. While i never particularly enjoyed ppl instructing it thought me some very valuable lessons and made me realise how little i actually knew about flying! I then progressed onto a very old jet which had turbo prop performance and once again began to learn how little i knew about flying but learned an enormous amount in an aircraft with very little automation and always stuck in the weather due non rvsm compliant.While i am still relatively new to flying (little more than 5000 hours total) i do wonder will missing out on all this adversely affect the '200hr, i want a airbus/boeing now' brigade. Will they get bored alot sooner with this career, having skipped what alot would argue was the 'apprenticeship'.
I must admit i am also terrified at the propect of moving companies, as one false move and that could be curtains for my career now that experience comes against you when job hunting. It does make me laugh how many people on here with 2 years in their first airline preach as though they are the voice of experience. I feel quite sorry for them just another example of people not understanding their place.
I must admit i am also terrified at the propect of moving companies, as one false move and that could be curtains for my career now that experience comes against you when job hunting. It does make me laugh how many people on here with 2 years in their first airline preach as though they are the voice of experience. I feel quite sorry for them just another example of people not understanding their place.
Last edited by blackred1443; 9th Aug 2010 at 15:25.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: copacabana
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The bigger picture....
Guys ,you got to get real here, there are plenty other worthwhile, rewarding careers out there with much better T&C's. We all love to fly and are passionate about all things aviation and all aspire to that great career in the skies, tasting the wine of the gods! but the fact is life is too short to be waiting around for something that may never happen especially when you see whats happening in the industry. After all its only a job that provides an income at the end of the day. I think if you havent got any reward in terms of flight careers and have exhausted every avenue and resource, you seriously got to look at the bigger picture and really consider some other path in life and be true to yourself and your family.
There is always the option to keep flying privately with your local flying club, or getting involved in a group share to keep the passion alive. Its not the end of the world. Dont let it destroy your life.
There is always the option to keep flying privately with your local flying club, or getting involved in a group share to keep the passion alive. Its not the end of the world. Dont let it destroy your life.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It does make me laugh how many people on here with 2 years in their first airline preach as though they are the voice of experience. I feel quite sorry for them just another example of people not understanding their place.
Out of interest, when someone has a few years of airline experience what is their 'place' exactly?
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by initial vector
All markets, including the Pilot market is built on "supply and demand".......Once the demand for pilots increases (and a pilot shortage is predicted by 2014!) then the T&C's will automatically get better and better!
The last 15 years or so have seen a continuous decline is T&Cs and it is continuing.
The preferred F/O is now one with a freshly printed license as they have been conditioned to and are willing to pay for much of the company's cost of hiring them. They are also cheaper once hired. More importantly experience is no longer seen as adding any value to an F/O.
This trend is now spreading as we see the first P2F schemes for Captains emerge.
The only shortage we'll eventually see is of experience. But even that wont slow down the beancounters.
This trend is now spreading as we see the first P2F schemes for Captains emerge.
B747-400 CAPTAIN
ICAO ATPL and ICAO B747-400 PIC Type Rating
7000 hours total flight time including 2000 hours captain turbojet flight time
Operator Conversion Course + 500 Hours: $39,900 USD
ICAO ATPL and ICAO B747-400 PIC Type Rating
7000 hours total flight time including 2000 hours captain turbojet flight time
Operator Conversion Course + 500 Hours: $39,900 USD
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Everywhere and nowhere
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mcdonalds
Well, I wouldn't mind working for Mcdonalds!
coffeelovesmilk.com | pilot jobs worldwide
All kidding aside though, KBPsen makes a valid point. Not many have been in the position to ever come across a pilots' shortage... However there have been several. Last one was in 2007!
Several airlines were hiring, Netjets nearly doubled their pilot numbers. Contract- and freelance pilots were raising their prices and airlines couldn't find enough captains to fill their empty seats. Granted, the mayority of these empty seats were to be filled with captains, but that would open the market for F/O's as well.
I write "would open" as, unfortunately, due to the fact that the crisis hit hard and fast(er than expected) in 2008 the F/O's never got to profit from that vacuum.
In fact, I think it is obvious F/O's got screwed the hardest... The supposed vacuum created by migrating captains and upgraded F/O's was hacked-to-pieces by cutbacks instead. The once-so-desired captains were made redundant to cut costs and the P2F schemes were introduced for the fresh cadets.
Brilliantly done by the airline managers! You would almost think it was planned that way....... No, let's not start another conspiracy theory...
I hope BA is right about the upcoming pilot shortage of 2014, but as KBPsen so eloquently put it: it is a fabled one...
coffeelovesmilk.com | pilot jobs worldwide
All kidding aside though, KBPsen makes a valid point. Not many have been in the position to ever come across a pilots' shortage... However there have been several. Last one was in 2007!
Several airlines were hiring, Netjets nearly doubled their pilot numbers. Contract- and freelance pilots were raising their prices and airlines couldn't find enough captains to fill their empty seats. Granted, the mayority of these empty seats were to be filled with captains, but that would open the market for F/O's as well.
I write "would open" as, unfortunately, due to the fact that the crisis hit hard and fast(er than expected) in 2008 the F/O's never got to profit from that vacuum.
In fact, I think it is obvious F/O's got screwed the hardest... The supposed vacuum created by migrating captains and upgraded F/O's was hacked-to-pieces by cutbacks instead. The once-so-desired captains were made redundant to cut costs and the P2F schemes were introduced for the fresh cadets.
Brilliantly done by the airline managers! You would almost think it was planned that way.......
No, let's not start another conspiracy theory... I hope BA is right about the upcoming pilot shortage of 2014, but as KBPsen so eloquently put it: it is a fabled one...
Last edited by initial vector; 11th Aug 2010 at 18:47.
