FTE Flybe/MPL 2010
Ben,
All though not directly related to the thread, I hope you have a back up plan that doesn't just just rely on being in the flybe hold pool.
Over the last seven or eight years flybe was, to a large extent a "training airline", pilots would join, do a few years on the dash 8, unfreeze their ATPL (or get a bit of command time if they had the hours), and then be off to the RHS of a jet with the likes of Monarch, Easy, Thompson fly etc.
That route, with the down turn in the industry and the growth of flexi-crew has effectively now stopped. I left them in 2006 and the month I left they had 30 resignations - at the time that was about ten percent of their pilot workforce in one month. Now, with sixty something turboprops and fifteen embraers, no where else for dash 8 captains to go outside of the company, and training appointments - because of the huge jump in pay - now being dead mans shoes, it is unlikely that they will need thirty pilots in a year.
They have a vested interest in the MPL scheme graduates and will almost certainly take them first. At the risk of upsetting you (and the majority of the rest of the low houred fATPL who read this) I think they are correct. In my opinion the Colgan Q400 crash would not have happened if the F/O had been through an MPL scheme on the Q400 sim, as the greater familiarity with the aircraft and it's systems would have helped in recognising the problems that were occuring.
However, that isn't the point. The important thing is to make sure there is something else you could do. Why not call the people in charge of recruitment and see if they would accept your doing an FI course as meeting the currency requirements. Once you had done it (if you can stretch to funding it) you can keep current whilst instructing, improve your own standards and skills, and also gain hours towards the time when you might be of interest to other operators as well as to flybe.
All though not directly related to the thread, I hope you have a back up plan that doesn't just just rely on being in the flybe hold pool.
Over the last seven or eight years flybe was, to a large extent a "training airline", pilots would join, do a few years on the dash 8, unfreeze their ATPL (or get a bit of command time if they had the hours), and then be off to the RHS of a jet with the likes of Monarch, Easy, Thompson fly etc.
That route, with the down turn in the industry and the growth of flexi-crew has effectively now stopped. I left them in 2006 and the month I left they had 30 resignations - at the time that was about ten percent of their pilot workforce in one month. Now, with sixty something turboprops and fifteen embraers, no where else for dash 8 captains to go outside of the company, and training appointments - because of the huge jump in pay - now being dead mans shoes, it is unlikely that they will need thirty pilots in a year.
They have a vested interest in the MPL scheme graduates and will almost certainly take them first. At the risk of upsetting you (and the majority of the rest of the low houred fATPL who read this) I think they are correct. In my opinion the Colgan Q400 crash would not have happened if the F/O had been through an MPL scheme on the Q400 sim, as the greater familiarity with the aircraft and it's systems would have helped in recognising the problems that were occuring.
However, that isn't the point. The important thing is to make sure there is something else you could do. Why not call the people in charge of recruitment and see if they would accept your doing an FI course as meeting the currency requirements. Once you had done it (if you can stretch to funding it) you can keep current whilst instructing, improve your own standards and skills, and also gain hours towards the time when you might be of interest to other operators as well as to flybe.
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Is Flybe any good though?
I fly every 2 - 3 months with Flybe, and I always take an opportunity to try and talk to the Pilots. The last 2 crews I met weren't very encouraging.
The last one I saw however was the worst. They had a big grim on their faces when I entered the cockpit. Although I was very joyful (as I always am, willing to ask lots of questions), I just wanted to know how the Job was and how they liked working for Flybe because the dispatcher wanted me to get off ASAP!
Both pilots agreed that I should certainly not do it for the money, and they also said "I guess it's ok" to work for Flybe.
This didn't make it sound like I ever wana fly for Flybe, considering I'll might doing Southampton - Manchester - Leeds everyday, isn't exactly the most exiting trips.
You'd think that if you have to fly **** routes in mostly **** weather, you'd get paid more to stay well concentrated and aware that a crash is only around the corner of a C-nimbus!
I'm sidetracking here, but my main point is does anyone think flybe is an ok company to work for, or they just have good PR people that make them sound good by, for example being "so green because they put little stickers next to their doors saying how much CO2 they produce"!!!
As I come to my final year at Uni, I'd like to attempt my luck at with something if I don't get a graduate job straight away, but is flybe really the way to go?
The last one I saw however was the worst. They had a big grim on their faces when I entered the cockpit. Although I was very joyful (as I always am, willing to ask lots of questions), I just wanted to know how the Job was and how they liked working for Flybe because the dispatcher wanted me to get off ASAP!
Both pilots agreed that I should certainly not do it for the money, and they also said "I guess it's ok" to work for Flybe.
This didn't make it sound like I ever wana fly for Flybe, considering I'll might doing Southampton - Manchester - Leeds everyday, isn't exactly the most exiting trips.
You'd think that if you have to fly **** routes in mostly **** weather, you'd get paid more to stay well concentrated and aware that a crash is only around the corner of a C-nimbus!
I'm sidetracking here, but my main point is does anyone think flybe is an ok company to work for, or they just have good PR people that make them sound good by, for example being "so green because they put little stickers next to their doors saying how much CO2 they produce"!!!
As I come to my final year at Uni, I'd like to attempt my luck at with something if I don't get a graduate job straight away, but is flybe really the way to go?
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and I have one more question. At what stage would it be still acceptable to dash out the application process without making a bad name for yourself? For example if you're selected, can you say on the 24th June.. "oops sorry don't wana do it in the end"?
Also, how come the MPL is £ 81k if you go through FTE directly, and not 76k like advertised on the flybe specific scheme? Is it to do with the Type Rating Flybe are paying for that makes the 5k difference?
Thanks a lot
Also, how come the MPL is £ 81k if you go through FTE directly, and not 76k like advertised on the flybe specific scheme? Is it to do with the Type Rating Flybe are paying for that makes the 5k difference?
Thanks a lot
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Checkxp, theres no point even begining...i think what everyone is forgeting is that if you want to start a career as an airline pilot right now what else are you going to do?? This is just about as good as it gets right now. Flybe are a good company, what ever problems you have with paying for training etc. what else are you going to do??
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I'm graduating (hopefully) in June, so I can get a job with a starting Salary of 25k - 30k. My big worry though is my age. I don't want to work for 5 years, to find out I'm too old then to start training as a pilot.
The thing about flybe is though, to my perception they're worse than ryanair at coning you to stuff (I'm talking as a passenger now). With Ryanair, you pay for what you get. With flybe, there's always some hidden something, like a ****ter bag allowance, or nearly no cabin baggage allowance, but also other stuff like claiming "low fare carrier" when their fare are very high, even without the added extras such as bags.
I'll try to do the same comparaison from a pilot's point of view. I think again with Ryanair you money, and you pay for everything regarding to training. When flybe starts to pay for stuff that you have to pay back but still call it a scholarship, that's just taking students for a bunch of donkeys with a carrot in front to get them going. Sorry for the metaphor, but is it really much better than going straight through Oxford?
By the way I'm not trying to put down flybe, but this is from personal experience, and I want to be careful and know the field in which I want to lay a foot on before committing big bucks!
Thanks for your quick response though.
The thing about flybe is though, to my perception they're worse than ryanair at coning you to stuff (I'm talking as a passenger now). With Ryanair, you pay for what you get. With flybe, there's always some hidden something, like a ****ter bag allowance, or nearly no cabin baggage allowance, but also other stuff like claiming "low fare carrier" when their fare are very high, even without the added extras such as bags.
I'll try to do the same comparaison from a pilot's point of view. I think again with Ryanair you money, and you pay for everything regarding to training. When flybe starts to pay for stuff that you have to pay back but still call it a scholarship, that's just taking students for a bunch of donkeys with a carrot in front to get them going. Sorry for the metaphor, but is it really much better than going straight through Oxford?
By the way I'm not trying to put down flybe, but this is from personal experience, and I want to be careful and know the field in which I want to lay a foot on before committing big bucks!
Thanks for your quick response though.
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"Both pilots agreed that I should certainly not do it for the money, and they also said "I guess it's ok" to work for Flybe."
- Maybe they'd had a **** duty, tech probs that day, wx probs, tired, etc etc ????? I love my job (not Flybe), but I'm based abroad on reduced percentage at the moment, so even though I love flying commercially, I too would also say "I guess it's ok working for my mob"...
"This didn't make it sound like I ever wana fly for Flybe, considering I'll might doing Southampton - Manchester - Leeds everyday, isn't exactly the most exiting trips."
- Be nice to have that luxury of choosing your airline based on the more glamourous routes. Good luck with that one!!!!
"You'd think that if you have to fly **** routes in mostly **** weather, you'd get paid more to stay well concentrated and aware that a crash is only around the corner of a C-nimbus!"
- Really???
The reasons I reply here is primarily to question your "vision" or general understanding of the reality of airline life, regardless of it being Flybe or anybody else? Given the nature of some of your statements, it just made me wonder do you really know what you are getting into, with such vast amounts of money at stake.
You take any airline you MIGHT have a shot of getting into (i.e not Virgin etc), more the likes of Ezy, Ryan etc etc, are not going to be too dissimilar to Flybe. Routes aren't too dissimilar, pay (or whatever the airlines call your "remuneration" in these days of PTF schemes) isn't going to be great wherever, so yes you've mentioned your concerns with Flybe (and I appreciate you are not putting them down), but your concerns surely will be relevant to any outfit you as a low houred newbie pilot will be eligible for.
Just a thought.
Rgds, FMS.
- Maybe they'd had a **** duty, tech probs that day, wx probs, tired, etc etc ????? I love my job (not Flybe), but I'm based abroad on reduced percentage at the moment, so even though I love flying commercially, I too would also say "I guess it's ok working for my mob"...
"This didn't make it sound like I ever wana fly for Flybe, considering I'll might doing Southampton - Manchester - Leeds everyday, isn't exactly the most exiting trips."
- Be nice to have that luxury of choosing your airline based on the more glamourous routes. Good luck with that one!!!!
"You'd think that if you have to fly **** routes in mostly **** weather, you'd get paid more to stay well concentrated and aware that a crash is only around the corner of a C-nimbus!"
- Really???
The reasons I reply here is primarily to question your "vision" or general understanding of the reality of airline life, regardless of it being Flybe or anybody else? Given the nature of some of your statements, it just made me wonder do you really know what you are getting into, with such vast amounts of money at stake.
You take any airline you MIGHT have a shot of getting into (i.e not Virgin etc), more the likes of Ezy, Ryan etc etc, are not going to be too dissimilar to Flybe. Routes aren't too dissimilar, pay (or whatever the airlines call your "remuneration" in these days of PTF schemes) isn't going to be great wherever, so yes you've mentioned your concerns with Flybe (and I appreciate you are not putting them down), but your concerns surely will be relevant to any outfit you as a low houred newbie pilot will be eligible for.
Just a thought.
Rgds, FMS.
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"Both pilots agreed that I should certainly not do it for the money, and they also said "I guess it's ok" to work for Flybe."
CheckXP,
Ask lame questions and you often get lame answers. Asking a pilot how the job is seems to me a lame question, but given the naivete Frankly Mr. Shankly is calling you out for, it was probably the only question you knew to ask.
It seems to me that what you need to do is formulate a list of decent open ended questions. Here are a few to get you started:
What is Flybe's typical roster pattern?
How long on average does it take a 250 hour newbie to unfreeze their ATPL with Flybe?
What are the top three things you like about working for Flybe?
If you came on Pprune and asked "Is pilot a good career and how do you like your jobs?" what kind of answers do you think you'd get? I think there is far more negativity here than you'll encounter on most flight decks, so why come here expecting to get bucked up?
As for your last question; if you are this wishy washy about it, you probably can't bluff your way through an interview with Flybe's HR manager, so there is not likely to be an offer for you to turn down on 24th June. It would be a really shabby thing to do to the other lads that have a far more positive attitude about Flybe and this opportunity and it would get you black listed at Flybe and FTE (for making them look bad), so don't bother applying unless you can get considerably more excited about it. This is a very small industry and you don't want to alienate anyone before you even get a foot on the first rung.
CheckXP,
Ask lame questions and you often get lame answers. Asking a pilot how the job is seems to me a lame question, but given the naivete Frankly Mr. Shankly is calling you out for, it was probably the only question you knew to ask.
It seems to me that what you need to do is formulate a list of decent open ended questions. Here are a few to get you started:
What is Flybe's typical roster pattern?
How long on average does it take a 250 hour newbie to unfreeze their ATPL with Flybe?
What are the top three things you like about working for Flybe?
If you came on Pprune and asked "Is pilot a good career and how do you like your jobs?" what kind of answers do you think you'd get? I think there is far more negativity here than you'll encounter on most flight decks, so why come here expecting to get bucked up?
As for your last question; if you are this wishy washy about it, you probably can't bluff your way through an interview with Flybe's HR manager, so there is not likely to be an offer for you to turn down on 24th June. It would be a really shabby thing to do to the other lads that have a far more positive attitude about Flybe and this opportunity and it would get you black listed at Flybe and FTE (for making them look bad), so don't bother applying unless you can get considerably more excited about it. This is a very small industry and you don't want to alienate anyone before you even get a foot on the first rung.
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Thanks for your replies. The reason I don't have a good attitude to flybe is partly because I fly with the rather regularly, and they're not very customer focused, and more like ryanair where you're a bunch of cows in a herd, except that you pay 3x more than on ryanair.
BUT also because I think that the Pilot job is becoming a less and less prestigious job. As someone posted on another forum this video: "YouTube - US Airways Pilot Capt. "Sully" Sullenberger Speaks to Congress: "My Pay Has Been Cut by 40%" that the industry are making the wrong moves, and decreasing salaries is not a good thing. As someone mentioned earlier on this forum:
, and that's because you have to refund Flybe the 19.8k they lend you out of a 24k salary (BEFORE TAX!!!), and the rest to a bank which you probably won't be able to start refunding until 3years at flybe (so 5years after you took the loan), with all the interests that you will incur isn't exactly a good plan.
So I know that I would really want to become a Pilot. Everytime I fly as a passenger I'm excited (I fly quite a lot, about 30times a year), and for many other reasons, but as I also was a student for 5 years, I don't really want to live in more debt, always worrying about money!
I hope you can understand where I'm coming from, and I'm not coming here to get "bucked up", but to find out really a way that's viable for me to do get into the industry of my dreams.
And as you said, I didn't apply this time yet because I want to clearly identify my options first. So yeah, if anyone has any advice or any comments on my attitude, please fire away, i won't take offence.
Thanks
BUT also because I think that the Pilot job is becoming a less and less prestigious job. As someone posted on another forum this video: "YouTube - US Airways Pilot Capt. "Sully" Sullenberger Speaks to Congress: "My Pay Has Been Cut by 40%" that the industry are making the wrong moves, and decreasing salaries is not a good thing. As someone mentioned earlier on this forum:
If you try to do this with 100% debt, it probably won't work out for you.
So I know that I would really want to become a Pilot. Everytime I fly as a passenger I'm excited (I fly quite a lot, about 30times a year), and for many other reasons, but as I also was a student for 5 years, I don't really want to live in more debt, always worrying about money!
I hope you can understand where I'm coming from, and I'm not coming here to get "bucked up", but to find out really a way that's viable for me to do get into the industry of my dreams.
And as you said, I didn't apply this time yet because I want to clearly identify my options first. So yeah, if anyone has any advice or any comments on my attitude, please fire away, i won't take offence.
Thanks
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CheckXP,
Nothing at all wrong with your attitude, and after all you're looking for advice/opinions etc from here like alot of us did when starting out so good on you.
The main point I was making was that alot of these schemes out there now require some kind of pay to fly lark in some form or other, so the actual "way in" (and rewards) at the moment is not too different between various operators.
But just to make sure your understanding of the industry you are prospectively getting into, "warts and all", on a daily basis, is well researched and you know what to expect i.e it becomes a job like any other in a way , and there will be a point where you say "yeah this outfit is ok I suppose" just like the Flybe guys.
Anyway, good luck with all.
Rgds, FMS.
Nothing at all wrong with your attitude, and after all you're looking for advice/opinions etc from here like alot of us did when starting out so good on you.
The main point I was making was that alot of these schemes out there now require some kind of pay to fly lark in some form or other, so the actual "way in" (and rewards) at the moment is not too different between various operators.
But just to make sure your understanding of the industry you are prospectively getting into, "warts and all", on a daily basis, is well researched and you know what to expect i.e it becomes a job like any other in a way , and there will be a point where you say "yeah this outfit is ok I suppose" just like the Flybe guys.
Anyway, good luck with all.
Rgds, FMS.
and that's because you have to refund Flybe the 19.8k they lend you out of a 24k salary (BEFORE TAX!!!),
The money is paid back after income tax.
will receive an additional sponsorship from Flybe of GBP £19,800.00, repayable out of salary over the first five years of employment.
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Does the CTC scheme not have some clever tax so that it's effectively paid pre-tax?
Anyone received the email for the next round?
I still can't work out whether this is a good scheme or not as £80k is a huge amount of money to pay (post tax)!
cheers
Anyone received the email for the next round?
I still can't work out whether this is a good scheme or not as £80k is a huge amount of money to pay (post tax)!
cheers
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The reason I don't have a good attitude to flybe is partly because I fly with the rather regularly, and they're not very customer focused, and more like ryanair where you're a bunch of cows in a herd, except that you pay 3x more than on ryanair.
Back onto the scheme, the whole subject of this thread, does anybody have any idea about any previous experience hours restrictions? I'm aware that in the OAA flybe mpl, candidates could not have had more than 60 hours flight experience, but there is no mention of any restriction on this particular scheme.
Anyone received the email for the next round?
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Groundloop:
I know that paying back before tax is better, I was emphasising on the fact that the 24k are before tax!!! And that's quite a poor salary if you ask me. That's all I was saying. Obviously paying back something before tax is good, but in this case, it's written nowhere that that is the case. For all I know, you would need to pay it out of your wages after tax was deduced.
I'm sorry I know I didn't express myself well on that, but I was quite tired when I worte it as I work 8 until 19.30 everyday in a Lab these days, so I'm a bit tired when I write stuff at midnight.
I know that paying back before tax is better, I was emphasising on the fact that the 24k are before tax!!! And that's quite a poor salary if you ask me. That's all I was saying. Obviously paying back something before tax is good, but in this case, it's written nowhere that that is the case. For all I know, you would need to pay it out of your wages after tax was deduced.
I'm sorry I know I didn't express myself well on that, but I was quite tired when I worte it as I work 8 until 19.30 everyday in a Lab these days, so I'm a bit tired when I write stuff at midnight.
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Put1992:
when you say stage 2, you've just submitted the small online form, or did you have an extra thing to do already?
I'm on stage 2 of 4, haven't heard anything back after submitting my answers, but applications only closed on sunday?
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Stage 1: Is The Small Online Application, Asking Your Personal Details Etc.
Stage 2: Is The Set Of 7 Questions Asking About Your Life Experinece(I.e, Give An Example Where You Where Undepressure, Etc..)
Stage 3: You Fly Out To Exeter And Do The FTE Assessment And Interview
Stage 4: You Fly Out To Exeter Again And Do Another Interview But This Time With Flybe Management Crew.
Stage 2: Is The Set Of 7 Questions Asking About Your Life Experinece(I.e, Give An Example Where You Where Undepressure, Etc..)
Stage 3: You Fly Out To Exeter And Do The FTE Assessment And Interview
Stage 4: You Fly Out To Exeter Again And Do Another Interview But This Time With Flybe Management Crew.
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Apparently when this scheme was last open at OAA, candidates who got through to stage 3 did not have to complete the school tests again if they had recently done the skills assessment with the Oxford independently..does anyone know if that applies here?
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when you say stage 2, you've just submitted the small online form, or did you have an extra thing to do already?
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Even If You Have Done The Assessments At FTE And Passed Them, You Are Still Required To Attend Stage 3, Which Basically Means You Need To Do Part Of The Assessment Again.
I Understand At OAA It Was Different.
I Understand At OAA It Was Different.