Is this Spannish Airline for real!?
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Yes my friends, this is for real. And moreover sad, this is the way folks at AEA makes a recruitment process, to me, all is a pretty bunch of 
bull****.
For all of you who would like to apply for the next recruitment, get know that AEA will ask you for the "Cervantes Institute Certificate for Spanish Language Proficiency" or something like that. For us, spaniards they request a TOEFL or English proficiency..... (you would like for sure listen how nice english they speak, mostly is a bad joke and not understandable at all).
On the other hand, as anyone has already said, they request a Diploma or University degree.... ok, but funny is that Philosophy, Art, or any non technical degree worths much more than many hundred hours on B737 or similar jet......
.
A friend of mine applied, passed it all but finally was rejected in the personal interview, nice filter, isn't it? now he is a happy capt flying for other company...... haaaaa, he was B737 capt when applied, but since promotion to captainship is from inside, he only could accept a F/O position in the event of being contracted, so if you are already PIC, don't even dream to fly left seat in AEA from a direct entry.... no, no, noo !!!!
.
So, good luck if you try it.... I don't have this company in my list....
bull****.For all of you who would like to apply for the next recruitment, get know that AEA will ask you for the "Cervantes Institute Certificate for Spanish Language Proficiency" or something like that. For us, spaniards they request a TOEFL or English proficiency..... (you would like for sure listen how nice english they speak, mostly is a bad joke and not understandable at all).
On the other hand, as anyone has already said, they request a Diploma or University degree.... ok, but funny is that Philosophy, Art, or any non technical degree worths much more than many hundred hours on B737 or similar jet......
.A friend of mine applied, passed it all but finally was rejected in the personal interview, nice filter, isn't it? now he is a happy capt flying for other company...... haaaaa, he was B737 capt when applied, but since promotion to captainship is from inside, he only could accept a F/O position in the event of being contracted, so if you are already PIC, don't even dream to fly left seat in AEA from a direct entry.... no, no, noo !!!!
.So, good luck if you try it.... I don't have this company in my list....
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Airlines hire Captains and managers not just FOs
Not meaning to threadjack but the degree thing keeps coming up and I cannot help but notice that it always seem like those Alan Sugar types without a degree seem to see it as unnecessary.
I don't think anyone out there is saying that having a degree makes you a better pilot. It does however make you more qualified if you have one and someone else does not. Hence why FTSE listed firms frequently have graduate recruitment and management programs. Look at the requirements for Deloitte, PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst Young, KPMG, All Big 5 Banks, GSK, Vodafone, Microsoft, the list goes on and on....
The reason that these firms want degrees in ANY subject is to differentiate the applicants. In the British Army it is pretty much 90% graduates who go to Sandhurst these days in the US most major airlines will not recruit a pilot without a degree. It doesn't matter what it is in it just demonstrates that your mind can work in a certain way, guarantees a certain level of education and makes all pilots they hire demonstrably more likely to be useful in roles other than flying which means that they can keep pilots who loose medicals or wish to progress to more instructional, operation or financial management based roles within the firm.
Hopefully the day will come when you cannot get a job as a pilot without a degree (OR EQUIVALENT). Before we get into the debate as to what the equivalent is I mean something that a university would accept as direct entry into a Master program i.e. significant experience at an appropriate level.
My reasoning is because a university level education should be the basis for every profession. I also think every manager in a retail chain, in sales every senior police officer, every nurse, every teacher, or similar should also have a degree. Come one lets be honest if you can study and pass the ATPL exams you can clearly achieve a degree (NOT implying the ATPL is equal it isn't) but the material is frequently at university level.
Times are changing and we need to make sure that we have less better qualified pilots than lots of pilots as we progressively lower the academic entry requirements it will actually make our industry better not worse in the long run.
I don't think anyone out there is saying that having a degree makes you a better pilot. It does however make you more qualified if you have one and someone else does not. Hence why FTSE listed firms frequently have graduate recruitment and management programs. Look at the requirements for Deloitte, PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst Young, KPMG, All Big 5 Banks, GSK, Vodafone, Microsoft, the list goes on and on....
The reason that these firms want degrees in ANY subject is to differentiate the applicants. In the British Army it is pretty much 90% graduates who go to Sandhurst these days in the US most major airlines will not recruit a pilot without a degree. It doesn't matter what it is in it just demonstrates that your mind can work in a certain way, guarantees a certain level of education and makes all pilots they hire demonstrably more likely to be useful in roles other than flying which means that they can keep pilots who loose medicals or wish to progress to more instructional, operation or financial management based roles within the firm.
Hopefully the day will come when you cannot get a job as a pilot without a degree (OR EQUIVALENT). Before we get into the debate as to what the equivalent is I mean something that a university would accept as direct entry into a Master program i.e. significant experience at an appropriate level.
My reasoning is because a university level education should be the basis for every profession. I also think every manager in a retail chain, in sales every senior police officer, every nurse, every teacher, or similar should also have a degree. Come one lets be honest if you can study and pass the ATPL exams you can clearly achieve a degree (NOT implying the ATPL is equal it isn't) but the material is frequently at university level.
Times are changing and we need to make sure that we have less better qualified pilots than lots of pilots as we progressively lower the academic entry requirements it will actually make our industry better not worse in the long run.
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Ignorant prospective pilot
N-1 wrote:
"Yes my friends, this is for real. And moreover sad, this is the way folks at AEA makes a recruitment process, to me, all is a pretty bunch of
bull****"
I left Air Europa in 97, and I have to say that they are a very professional company in their operations. It is the only company in Spain that have their entry requirement written and accesible to anybody. The process is fair and transparent. Their goal is to hire the best, I am sorry you could not pass their requirements.
"For all of you who would like to apply for the next recruitment, get know that AEA will ask you for the "Cervantes Institute Certificate for Spanish Language Proficiency" or something like that. For us, spaniards they request a TOEFL or English proficiency..... (you would like for sure listen how nice english they speak, mostly is a bad joke and not understandable at all)."
What is wrong with that, pretty standard requirement, check the JARīs.
"On the other hand, as anyone has already said, they request a Diploma or University degree.... ok, but funny is that Philosophy, Art, or any non technical degree worths much more than many hundred hours on B737 or similar jet."
Not much more, it counts exactlly as 575 hrs, so you still need 425 hrs to apply. if you have 1000 hrs of B-737 you can apply too and get hired. In the USA you need more hours to get into any major or Southwest. more than 90% of pilots hired by majors had a 4 yr. degree. Having obtained a degree means that you have the intelectual skills and the maturity to be a good captain and manager.
"A friend of mine applied, passed it all but finally was rejected in the personal interview, nice filter, isn't it?"
The personnal interview is to confirm the results of the aptitude and personality test. If the psychologist tells us that the applicant is not a good team player, we have not option, even if he has thousands of hours.
"he was B737 capt when applied, but since promotion to captainship is from inside, he only could accept a F/O position in the event of being contracted, so if you are already PIC, don't even dream to fly left seat in AEA from a direct entry.... no, no, noo "
Like any serious company seniority should be respected.
Finally, Air Europa promotes the hiring of victims of terrorism by giving them a bonus in their flying hours, it does not state how many, problaby it is said in their web page. A victim is also a direct relative of the person affected. I congratulate Mr. Hidalgo for this, it is a way of supporting for example the sons of policeman killed by eta, or soldiers injured in Afghanistan.
Air Europa is a great and fun company to work for.
"Yes my friends, this is for real. And moreover sad, this is the way folks at AEA makes a recruitment process, to me, all is a pretty bunch of
bull****"I left Air Europa in 97, and I have to say that they are a very professional company in their operations. It is the only company in Spain that have their entry requirement written and accesible to anybody. The process is fair and transparent. Their goal is to hire the best, I am sorry you could not pass their requirements.
"For all of you who would like to apply for the next recruitment, get know that AEA will ask you for the "Cervantes Institute Certificate for Spanish Language Proficiency" or something like that. For us, spaniards they request a TOEFL or English proficiency..... (you would like for sure listen how nice english they speak, mostly is a bad joke and not understandable at all)."
What is wrong with that, pretty standard requirement, check the JARīs.
"On the other hand, as anyone has already said, they request a Diploma or University degree.... ok, but funny is that Philosophy, Art, or any non technical degree worths much more than many hundred hours on B737 or similar jet."
Not much more, it counts exactlly as 575 hrs, so you still need 425 hrs to apply. if you have 1000 hrs of B-737 you can apply too and get hired. In the USA you need more hours to get into any major or Southwest. more than 90% of pilots hired by majors had a 4 yr. degree. Having obtained a degree means that you have the intelectual skills and the maturity to be a good captain and manager.
"A friend of mine applied, passed it all but finally was rejected in the personal interview, nice filter, isn't it?"
The personnal interview is to confirm the results of the aptitude and personality test. If the psychologist tells us that the applicant is not a good team player, we have not option, even if he has thousands of hours.
"he was B737 capt when applied, but since promotion to captainship is from inside, he only could accept a F/O position in the event of being contracted, so if you are already PIC, don't even dream to fly left seat in AEA from a direct entry.... no, no, noo "
Like any serious company seniority should be respected.
Finally, Air Europa promotes the hiring of victims of terrorism by giving them a bonus in their flying hours, it does not state how many, problaby it is said in their web page. A victim is also a direct relative of the person affected. I congratulate Mr. Hidalgo for this, it is a way of supporting for example the sons of policeman killed by eta, or soldiers injured in Afghanistan.
Air Europa is a great and fun company to work for.
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Originally Posted by Vortex Thing
It does however make you more qualified if you have one and someone else does not. Hence why FTSE listed firms frequently have graduate recruitment and management programs. Look at the requirements for Deloitte, PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst Young, KPMG, All Big 5 Banks, GSK, Vodafone, Microsoft, the list goes on and on....
As you say, most companies use it as a filtering tool, or to ascertain that somebody has a grounded knowledge of the industry they are entering. Seeing that there are plenty of filtering tools in aviation (groundschool, skills tests, sim checks etc) then that ticks the "filtering" box. As for a grounded knowledge, you have to sit specific exams to work for an airline (14 of them) so there is your knowledge factor.
Whilst knowledge is great, excellent hand eye coordination skills and mental capacity must count for a bit more. Indeed, if you were recruiting and one person had a degree, the other did not but the one that did not have a degree had a far better recommendation with regards to raw flying talent / skill but both the same groundschool mark, surely you wouldn't go for the one with the degree simply because he has a degree.
For aviation purposes, the only time a degree seems useful is if you have two people with exactly the same hours, flying talent, groundschool marks and personality, or it is a degree in something heavily weighted towards aviation.
Otherwise, it seems fairly irrelevant for me.
Originally Posted by Vortex Thing
It doesn't matter what it is in it just demonstrates that your mind can work in a certain way
I do agree though that a degree is more applicable to roles in an airline outside of flying.
To put it simply, for the role of a pilot, what does a degree (not related to flying) show?
- Life experience? No, you can get better experience of that outside of uni.
- Knowledge? A levels are good for that - three subjects, lots of exams.
- Dedication to a task? Spending Ģ60,000 or Ģ45,000 plus studying for 14 exams sounds like dedication.
- Basic level of knowledge? A levels...
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"Finally, Air Europa promotes the hiring of victims of terrorism by giving them a bonus in their flying hours, it does not state how many, problaby it is said in their web page. A victim is also a direct relative of the person affected. I congratulate Mr. Hidalgo for this, it is a way of supporting for example the sons of policeman killed by eta, or soldiers injured in Afghanistan."
I can see Michael O' Leary calling for his fellow Irish men and women with an fATPL who are victims of terrorism to apply for FO positions at his airline after all we don't have a clue about terrorisim in Ireland, right!?
It's a joke of a requirement! "Victims of terrorist attacks". It is completely irellevant to any position in any company.
How does one prove that one's relative was a victim?Or they are/were victims themselves?
Bring in police reports?
Death Certificates?
Photos of injuries sustained?
Begin crying at the interview?
Go on the Opera Winphrey show and bring a tape of said show to the interview?
A company should access it's potential employees on their suitability to the position being advertised not on how unfortunate a person has been in their lifetime.
Ridiculous.
I can see Michael O' Leary calling for his fellow Irish men and women with an fATPL who are victims of terrorism to apply for FO positions at his airline after all we don't have a clue about terrorisim in Ireland, right!?
It's a joke of a requirement! "Victims of terrorist attacks". It is completely irellevant to any position in any company.
How does one prove that one's relative was a victim?Or they are/were victims themselves?
Bring in police reports?
Death Certificates?
Photos of injuries sustained?
Begin crying at the interview?
Go on the Opera Winphrey show and bring a tape of said show to the interview?
A company should access it's potential employees on their suitability to the position being advertised not on how unfortunate a person has been in their lifetime.
Ridiculous.
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just to answer your question : YES !
Of course there are ways in Spain where you can get a short-cut ,if you have "connections" ,or you are a relative of a captain or someone important within the airline .
we have been having among pilots lots or arguments about the factorizing hours you get by studying a degree,and getting some "flying time for it " as if studying whatever book you name can be compared with flying an airplane and learning from it .
Thats why many spanish pilots perfectly trained ,prefer to try somewhere else to get a job ,because here in Spain its just imposible.
thank you all
Of course there are ways in Spain where you can get a short-cut ,if you have "connections" ,or you are a relative of a captain or someone important within the airline .
we have been having among pilots lots or arguments about the factorizing hours you get by studying a degree,and getting some "flying time for it " as if studying whatever book you name can be compared with flying an airplane and learning from it .
Thats why many spanish pilots perfectly trained ,prefer to try somewhere else to get a job ,because here in Spain its just imposible.
thank you all
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99jolegg. My point was NOT to imply in any way shape or form that having a degree in any way makes you a better pilot. I completely agree that it does no such thing.
My point is that when you hire someone you should not just hire them for their intrinsic skills of being able to fly a plane well. You should hire them for their personality, business acumen, overall aptitude and other skills. I would argue that in a modern airline a multi skilled pilot who understands IT, business, the travel industry, and the surrounding issues in aviation is far more valuable than a better pair of hands who can do none of the above.
After a certain amount of experience say 1500hrs or so on a type (willing to concede more or less but the figure is arbitrary) there is little difference between the benefit the airline is getting from your average or Chuck Yeager like ability. They do however need pilots with the correct world grounding to be fleet managers, chief pilots, i.e you need to promote pilots within the firm to other duties. You are part of the airline as a business person NOT just a pilot. That is only one of your duties within the firm.
Simply put the FTSE 100 is pretty much the hundred most profitable companies in this country. They without exception have graduate programs for their managers. They also without exception DO NOT care what subject you read at university, they are not hiring you for your knowledge of a particular subject! That is what the professional training is for i.e. Chartered Accountant, chartered manager, CIPD, DipLaw, etc
A Levels show you are good at retaining large amounts of detailed information and I would agree much of the A level standard was higher than that I encountered at university in quality (not in quantity). I however know many people with excellent 'A' Levels who you would only follow into a cockpit out of curiosity. My point is one of professional standing, you do not have doctors, lawyers or dentists without degrees. Most of the FTSE firms I describe above require far less aptitude and dedication than aviation and they only hire graduates. Why? for the same reasons nightclubs in cities make people stand outside when they are empty it makes it that little harder to achieve so the better/ more competitive people want it.
If you want aviation to be considered as profession by other professionals then you need to raise the entry bar. I have yet to meet a commercial pilot who was not academically capable of getting a degree in something somewhere. The day of the barrow boy with the good business acumen is past us...
My point is that when you hire someone you should not just hire them for their intrinsic skills of being able to fly a plane well. You should hire them for their personality, business acumen, overall aptitude and other skills. I would argue that in a modern airline a multi skilled pilot who understands IT, business, the travel industry, and the surrounding issues in aviation is far more valuable than a better pair of hands who can do none of the above.
After a certain amount of experience say 1500hrs or so on a type (willing to concede more or less but the figure is arbitrary) there is little difference between the benefit the airline is getting from your average or Chuck Yeager like ability. They do however need pilots with the correct world grounding to be fleet managers, chief pilots, i.e you need to promote pilots within the firm to other duties. You are part of the airline as a business person NOT just a pilot. That is only one of your duties within the firm.
Does groundschool not do this? Do A levels not do this? A few people (here too) mention that A levels were more stressful / difficult than their degree!
To put it simply, for the role of a pilot, what does a degree (not related to flying) show?
- Life experience? No, you can get better experience of that outside of uni.
- Knowledge? A levels are good for that - three subjects, lots of exams.
- Dedication to a task? Spending Ģ60,000 or Ģ45,000 plus studying for 14 exams sounds like dedication.
- Basic level of knowledge? A levels...
To put it simply, for the role of a pilot, what does a degree (not related to flying) show?
- Life experience? No, you can get better experience of that outside of uni.
- Knowledge? A levels are good for that - three subjects, lots of exams.
- Dedication to a task? Spending Ģ60,000 or Ģ45,000 plus studying for 14 exams sounds like dedication.
- Basic level of knowledge? A levels...
A Levels show you are good at retaining large amounts of detailed information and I would agree much of the A level standard was higher than that I encountered at university in quality (not in quantity). I however know many people with excellent 'A' Levels who you would only follow into a cockpit out of curiosity. My point is one of professional standing, you do not have doctors, lawyers or dentists without degrees. Most of the FTSE firms I describe above require far less aptitude and dedication than aviation and they only hire graduates. Why? for the same reasons nightclubs in cities make people stand outside when they are empty it makes it that little harder to achieve so the better/ more competitive people want it.
If you want aviation to be considered as profession by other professionals then you need to raise the entry bar. I have yet to meet a commercial pilot who was not academically capable of getting a degree in something somewhere. The day of the barrow boy with the good business acumen is past us...
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Simply put the FTSE 100 is pretty much the hundred most profitable companies in this country. They without exception have graduate programs for their managers. They also without exception DO NOT care what subject you read at university, they are not hiring you for your knowledge of a particular subject! That is what the professional training is for i.e. Chartered Accountant, chartered manager, CIPD, DipLaw, etc
I have to say I do find it frustrating to read on pprune (take a look at all the posts by youngsters saying they should get Cs at gcse, which is not by and large university material) people often saying school isn't that important and that grades don't matter much. A lot of youngsters come on here looking for advice/information and for people to be saying you can still succeed if you don't do well is no way to set an example. Sure there are plenty of people who have made it with only a handful of low level qualifications and some with none, but I agree with Vortex Thing that the only way to sustain a high level of pay, conditions and respect for pilots is to keep the level of competition high, and that means degrees and good grades aswell as good piloting ability. You don't want it to become degraded into something anyone can do.
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I think its a bit stupid for someone that wants to be a commercial pilot, to do a four year degree, on something un-related-What a waste of time!
If a person's goal in life is to be paid as a pilot, then the logical thing is for he/she to do the relevant pilot training, and do well while doing it.
It is a bit narrow minded to think that a person that has a degree is superior to someone that doesn't, some of the most interesting and successful people I know haven't even got one.
Here is a question;
-You need a new pilot for your international airline.
-Two pilots apply. Both have the same flight qualifications/experience/pilot skills.
-Candidate A does not have a degree but he is fluent in 4 different languages that are spoken in all your airline's different destinations. However candidate B has a degree in food studies.
So vortex thing which one would you choose?
There is obvioulsy two possible answers, the intelligent one, and the stupid one.
If a person's goal in life is to be paid as a pilot, then the logical thing is for he/she to do the relevant pilot training, and do well while doing it.
It is a bit narrow minded to think that a person that has a degree is superior to someone that doesn't, some of the most interesting and successful people I know haven't even got one.
Here is a question;
-You need a new pilot for your international airline.
-Two pilots apply. Both have the same flight qualifications/experience/pilot skills.
-Candidate A does not have a degree but he is fluent in 4 different languages that are spoken in all your airline's different destinations. However candidate B has a degree in food studies.
So vortex thing which one would you choose?
There is obvioulsy two possible answers, the intelligent one, and the stupid one.
Last edited by mierda; 15th Nov 2008 at 20:27.
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Originally Posted by Vortex Thing
My point is that when you hire someone you should not just hire them for their intrinsic skills of being able to fly a plane well. You should hire them for their personality, business acumen, overall aptitude and other skills. I would argue that in a modern airline a multi skilled pilot who understands IT, business, the travel industry, and the surrounding issues in aviation is far more valuable than a better pair of hands who can do none of the above.
After a certain amount of experience say 1500hrs or so on a type (willing to concede more or less but the figure is arbitrary) there is little difference between the benefit the airline is getting from your average or Chuck Yeager like ability. They do however need pilots with the correct world grounding to be fleet managers, chief pilots, i.e you need to promote pilots within the firm to other duties. You are part of the airline as a business person NOT just a pilot. That is only one of your duties within the firm.
After a certain amount of experience say 1500hrs or so on a type (willing to concede more or less but the figure is arbitrary) there is little difference between the benefit the airline is getting from your average or Chuck Yeager like ability. They do however need pilots with the correct world grounding to be fleet managers, chief pilots, i.e you need to promote pilots within the firm to other duties. You are part of the airline as a business person NOT just a pilot. That is only one of your duties within the firm.
I know I've learnt a lot since leaving school - far more than I would have done by going to university and having a part time job in a retailer. It's categorically wrong to assume anything about somebody with or without a degree.
Somebody with a degree in maths could have the business acumen of a sock and the personality of a breeze block.
Therefore, to me, a degree is a measure of nothing other than that they can study. An interview, personality test, teamwork tests and aptitude tests are the best ways to find if a candidate is worthwhile and the way in which (I assume) most airlines will filter out candidates first. Then, if you have a bunch of people with those skills necessary can they filter out those based on more pedantic (for want of a better word) measures.
I had a place at a university, but I declined a few months before attending. I'm no less of a person because of that decision.
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It not about being a good pilot...
Merida & Jolegg I didn't say that someone who has a degree is superior to someone without. I do not in any way believe that to be the case.
Your argument that an unrelated degree is a waste of time is not true. For many university is where they learn all about life, love and they do it in a conducive environment where they are forced to do things for themselves, many for the first time, whilst having social lives with other young professionals to be. It is about far far more than just the academic qualification it is a transition from a spoon fed education system which told you what to study and when to having to achieve everything with nothing but your own fear of failure at the other end.
There are many talented, far brighter and more able candidates out there without a degree than I and many of them will be naturally better pilots than me but I keep reiterating the same point being a pilot is just a small part of a much bigger job.
You are both right to say that suitable testing would in fact make sure that suitable candidates without degrees were successful. You are correct.
My point is one of perception and competition. You only require A Levels to become an army officer but well over 90% of army officers are graduates. Why not because they were better it is just that the personal attributes sought are more easily found in most graduates.
It is nothing to do with ability it is to do with the type of person who values a university education. The degree in sports science, estate management or geography doesnt make you a better pilot. The expedition to the Andes, the organizing the trip round Australia in the summer hols, actually this is far far more valuable than the actual subject read. It is a short and formative part of most professionals lives and a good degree statistically means that you will be in the top percentage of earners in the country.
That is why we have universities, you must be able to find something interesting to read at uni as you can do degrees in just about anything so the question that you need to ask is why would you not go to uni as this is the commonly accepted method of qualifying yourself for life.
What would you do if you lost your medical? What is your back up? Is it a disadvantage to have a degree in any job? let's not encourage mediocrity lets encourage the next generation to seek higher standards fro our profession.
VT
Your argument that an unrelated degree is a waste of time is not true. For many university is where they learn all about life, love and they do it in a conducive environment where they are forced to do things for themselves, many for the first time, whilst having social lives with other young professionals to be. It is about far far more than just the academic qualification it is a transition from a spoon fed education system which told you what to study and when to having to achieve everything with nothing but your own fear of failure at the other end.
There are many talented, far brighter and more able candidates out there without a degree than I and many of them will be naturally better pilots than me but I keep reiterating the same point being a pilot is just a small part of a much bigger job.
You are both right to say that suitable testing would in fact make sure that suitable candidates without degrees were successful. You are correct.
My point is one of perception and competition. You only require A Levels to become an army officer but well over 90% of army officers are graduates. Why not because they were better it is just that the personal attributes sought are more easily found in most graduates.
It is nothing to do with ability it is to do with the type of person who values a university education. The degree in sports science, estate management or geography doesnt make you a better pilot. The expedition to the Andes, the organizing the trip round Australia in the summer hols, actually this is far far more valuable than the actual subject read. It is a short and formative part of most professionals lives and a good degree statistically means that you will be in the top percentage of earners in the country.
That is why we have universities, you must be able to find something interesting to read at uni as you can do degrees in just about anything so the question that you need to ask is why would you not go to uni as this is the commonly accepted method of qualifying yourself for life.
What would you do if you lost your medical? What is your back up? Is it a disadvantage to have a degree in any job? let's not encourage mediocrity lets encourage the next generation to seek higher standards fro our profession.
VT
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Originally Posted by Vortex Thing
For many university is where they learn all about life, love and they do it in a conducive environment where they are forced to do things for themselves, many for the first time, whilst having social lives with other young professionals to be.
Originally Posted by Vortex Thing
The expedition to the Andes, the organizing the trip round Australia in the summer hols, actually this is far far more valuable than the actual subject read.
Originally Posted by Vortex Thing
What would you do if you lost your medical? What is your back up? Is it a disadvantage to have a degree in any job? let's not encourage mediocrity lets encourage the next generation to seek higher standards fro our profession.
I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm saying that all of the proposed benefits people seem to suggest are just as applicable to somebody who doesn't go to uni! Of course, the caveat here is the relevant experience to the industry you intend to go in.
I fully appreciate that uni is about far more than education, but so can real life, be! Yes, uni provides you with the platform to go and do these things but people who aren't at uni can do the same or something very similar. Indeed, it can be argued that those that have to go looking for it rather than have it handed it to them on a plate at uni have a superior set of motivational skills...but that's another story
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They also without exception DO NOT care what subject you read at university, they are not hiring you for your knowledge of a particular subject! That is what the professional training is for i.e. Chartered Accountant, chartered manager, CIPD, DipLaw, etc
While there are of course the linguists that practive international banking, artists in accountancy, or mathematicians in law, the avst majority of those taken on grad schemes for professional qualifications tend to have a background in similar degrees.
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I dont agree with you at all,in my case for example ,iIdont have a university degree, but I have been working very very hard since I was 21 years of age to become a pilot ,I came from a very modest family ,parents divorced when I was 6 and mother having to raise 2 kids in a foreign country ,I had to spend a year and a half in UK to get a good knowledge of english while saving as much money as I could to fly in USA ( at that time cheaper than in EU ) after that ,again saving money doing something else ( not flying ) trying to get the money to convert from FAA to JAA, then again some more to pay for MCC and finally some more for a type rating ,in other words ,many many years of hard work to achieve the almost imposible ,and you know what ? now they ask me experience on the A/C..... something very unfair since it does not depend ofn my effort anymore the fact ,that I get or not a job......
By the way ,All of these took me 13 years but YES its true no-one told me aviation was a fair busines, I have see all these years guys overtaken me with no knowledge of english and less experience ,but they were relatives of someone .......
Thanks.
By the way ,All of these took me 13 years but YES its true no-one told me aviation was a fair busines, I have see all these years guys overtaken me with no knowledge of english and less experience ,but they were relatives of someone .......
Thanks.
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Pilot and Uni. degree
Hello guys
Pretty interesting to read your opinions about this. I would say like few of you have said that when an airline need to hire pilot and in the end they have 2 persons left, with same hours and everything but person A has a degree from University then I would hire this person. Even though the degree is a "crap" because you can't go through university without putting some work and thinking to it.
Well if we talk about me now, then I'm about to finish BS degree (3 exams left) en electrical engineering. I've sent applications all over the place to many many many companies and I have been in 1 interview which sadly didn't work out for me. During this interview it was very clear that they didn't gave a **** about this university degree of mine. I was interviewed by 2 pilots (captains) and I think their opinion to this was waste of time spending 3 years in uni. (sad sad sad)
But I for sure hope that next interview will go better and it will be considered as a plus this university degree.
Then about this spanish company mentioned in the first thread. Is spanish language requirement nothing that they can put to the side? Does anyone here know?
Pretty interesting to read your opinions about this. I would say like few of you have said that when an airline need to hire pilot and in the end they have 2 persons left, with same hours and everything but person A has a degree from University then I would hire this person. Even though the degree is a "crap" because you can't go through university without putting some work and thinking to it.
Well if we talk about me now, then I'm about to finish BS degree (3 exams left) en electrical engineering. I've sent applications all over the place to many many many companies and I have been in 1 interview which sadly didn't work out for me. During this interview it was very clear that they didn't gave a **** about this university degree of mine. I was interviewed by 2 pilots (captains) and I think their opinion to this was waste of time spending 3 years in uni. (sad sad sad)
But I for sure hope that next interview will go better and it will be considered as a plus this university degree.
Then about this spanish company mentioned in the first thread. Is spanish language requirement nothing that they can put to the side? Does anyone here know?
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Pablo Unintentionally you are making my point. You sound like a good guy. You weren't born with a silver spoon in your mouth and were not handed your licence on a plate. You worked hard to overcome numerous personal difficult situations to achieve the standard required to become a commercial pilot. That standard is the same for everyone but you achieved it.
My point is that had the required standard been that you needed a degree and a CPL like many other nations then you are the sort of chap who would have done that as well. You are a self starter and will likely eventually be rewarded for your effort. Would you be a better pilot NO, would you be a better person NO would you be better qualified YES.
Jolegg You are right. I have already agreed this point twice now. Uni DOES NOT make you a better person/pilot or give you better experience than you can get outside. It simply raises the bar as you have had to acheive something else that not everyone else has.
Meirda Apologies I thought I had for clarity I would choose the chap with a degree in food science. Here's why (I fear I hear the flood gates opening) The chap who can speak 4 languages fluently and holds a fATPL is clearly a gifted individual, it is very unlikely that someone with this sort of linguistic skill would not be academically strong enough to have a degree by virtue of the fact that he/she does not it implies that they are not willing to go the extra mile and get a qualification which they could easily obtain. It is likely (bear in mind I have no other information except what you have provided as the scenario for this hypothesis) that this person is the sort of person only gets qualifications that they believe are necessary. This is likely to be a character trait of someone who will therefore do what is required and no more.
The chap/chapess with the degree in food science doesn't just know about food by virtue of the fact that they have a scientific degree, they also understand statistics, numerical analysis, sales, marketing and food engineering. They have demonstrated with one qualification that they are prepared to prove academic ability rather than rely on someone having to dig for it. i.e they make the recruiters job easier, they also reassure the recruiter that they have the intellectual horsepower to turn thier hand to multiple and varied tasks as food science would help little with the aviation studies and thus demonstrate flexibility of application to more positions within the firm.
Reheat I would argue that many of the magic circle law firms prefer solicitors who are lawyers and specialists in an area. i.e an engineering graduate who qualifies as a solicitor is the chap to have when defending an engineering lawsuit. Vocational degrees are of course different i.e a doctor needs to study medicine and a priest needs to study theology but increasing numbers of accountants and lawyers have unrelated degrees. The point I was trying to make though and you point out is that the qualification of choice is still the degree for ENTRY standard the professional qualification itself comes afterwards. It would do us great standing amongst that community (who bear in mind our very much in control of share capital and trade our airlines worth for a living) if we had a similar ENTRY level qualification.
Contentious probably but just my humble opinion.
My point is that had the required standard been that you needed a degree and a CPL like many other nations then you are the sort of chap who would have done that as well. You are a self starter and will likely eventually be rewarded for your effort. Would you be a better pilot NO, would you be a better person NO would you be better qualified YES.
Jolegg You are right. I have already agreed this point twice now. Uni DOES NOT make you a better person/pilot or give you better experience than you can get outside. It simply raises the bar as you have had to acheive something else that not everyone else has.
Meirda Apologies I thought I had for clarity I would choose the chap with a degree in food science. Here's why (I fear I hear the flood gates opening) The chap who can speak 4 languages fluently and holds a fATPL is clearly a gifted individual, it is very unlikely that someone with this sort of linguistic skill would not be academically strong enough to have a degree by virtue of the fact that he/she does not it implies that they are not willing to go the extra mile and get a qualification which they could easily obtain. It is likely (bear in mind I have no other information except what you have provided as the scenario for this hypothesis) that this person is the sort of person only gets qualifications that they believe are necessary. This is likely to be a character trait of someone who will therefore do what is required and no more.
The chap/chapess with the degree in food science doesn't just know about food by virtue of the fact that they have a scientific degree, they also understand statistics, numerical analysis, sales, marketing and food engineering. They have demonstrated with one qualification that they are prepared to prove academic ability rather than rely on someone having to dig for it. i.e they make the recruiters job easier, they also reassure the recruiter that they have the intellectual horsepower to turn thier hand to multiple and varied tasks as food science would help little with the aviation studies and thus demonstrate flexibility of application to more positions within the firm.
Reheat I would argue that many of the magic circle law firms prefer solicitors who are lawyers and specialists in an area. i.e an engineering graduate who qualifies as a solicitor is the chap to have when defending an engineering lawsuit. Vocational degrees are of course different i.e a doctor needs to study medicine and a priest needs to study theology but increasing numbers of accountants and lawyers have unrelated degrees. The point I was trying to make though and you point out is that the qualification of choice is still the degree for ENTRY standard the professional qualification itself comes afterwards. It would do us great standing amongst that community (who bear in mind our very much in control of share capital and trade our airlines worth for a living) if we had a similar ENTRY level qualification.
Contentious probably but just my humble opinion.
