So where are all the jobs then?
. 
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I don't think he is being sarcastic - at least his opinions resonate with mine.
While the aviation industry struggles through it's necessary rumblings I'm more than happy working in my back-up career, earning good money with good benefits & a stress-free lifestyle.
This was so clearly going to be a very bad time to be entering the industry, the warning signs couldn't have been clearer.
For every schmuck who chooses to pay an airline for the pleasure of playing with their planes, they're providing massive subsidies for my vacations & business travel. If people are happy to pay to fly me around then I'm only too happy to take them up on that offer.
The icing on the cake for me is that by taking out massive loans for the package, they're ensuring that they will be working hard for the majority of their working lives to pay me hefty dividends on my bank stocks. If there is a plentiful supply of suckers out there who are prepared to work to benefit me in this way, for nothing in return for themselves, then I'm tempted to say I actually encourage it. It's a free world. It's their choice - they were free to do so, or not, as they please.
The difference is one of professional outlook. I don't place the emphasis on simply partaking in the activity - I place a heavy weight on being remunerated appropriately for me to be willing to take part. If the status quo in aviation becomes the norm then I'm equally happy to keep flying as a hobby and stick to my original career. I'm equally content with that. Aviation is not the only rewarding activity in this world. I'm enthused by all those cheap flights to sunny destinations funded largely by what is effectively voluntary slave labour. All the while the participants are contributing to my retirement fund with those interest payments. It's a capitalists dream.
The comparison with a surgeon doesn't hold any ground I'm afraid. It takes far greater time, intellect and expense to train a surgeon than a pilot and a surgeon has no direct interest in the customers future (other than hospital league tables). Once the door of the aircraft is closed, the pilot and the passengers destinies are inseparable (to quote EK Gann). Survival instinct transcends remuneration packages.
While the aviation industry struggles through it's necessary rumblings I'm more than happy working in my back-up career, earning good money with good benefits & a stress-free lifestyle.
This was so clearly going to be a very bad time to be entering the industry, the warning signs couldn't have been clearer.
For every schmuck who chooses to pay an airline for the pleasure of playing with their planes, they're providing massive subsidies for my vacations & business travel. If people are happy to pay to fly me around then I'm only too happy to take them up on that offer.
The icing on the cake for me is that by taking out massive loans for the package, they're ensuring that they will be working hard for the majority of their working lives to pay me hefty dividends on my bank stocks. If there is a plentiful supply of suckers out there who are prepared to work to benefit me in this way, for nothing in return for themselves, then I'm tempted to say I actually encourage it. It's a free world. It's their choice - they were free to do so, or not, as they please.
The difference is one of professional outlook. I don't place the emphasis on simply partaking in the activity - I place a heavy weight on being remunerated appropriately for me to be willing to take part. If the status quo in aviation becomes the norm then I'm equally happy to keep flying as a hobby and stick to my original career. I'm equally content with that. Aviation is not the only rewarding activity in this world. I'm enthused by all those cheap flights to sunny destinations funded largely by what is effectively voluntary slave labour. All the while the participants are contributing to my retirement fund with those interest payments. It's a capitalists dream.
The comparison with a surgeon doesn't hold any ground I'm afraid. It takes far greater time, intellect and expense to train a surgeon than a pilot and a surgeon has no direct interest in the customers future (other than hospital league tables). Once the door of the aircraft is closed, the pilot and the passengers destinies are inseparable (to quote EK Gann). Survival instinct transcends remuneration packages.
I Have Control
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Idiocy
v6g, enjoy your cheap flights to your holiday destinations, driven in part by P2F neophytes. As long as you remain blissfully unaware of the risks, your capitalist dream should remain most satisfying. You clearly have no idea about the flying profession, skills, airmanship, and experience.
A nasty day over Cuba, with all destinations beset by TSRA, is no place for a proficient Captain and his useless P2F "colleague". I doubt that you have a clue.
A nasty day over Cuba, with all destinations beset by TSRA, is no place for a proficient Captain and his useless P2F "colleague". I doubt that you have a clue.
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It amazes me these folk who refer to bank of mummy and daddy or 200 hour sky gods etc..some people will have worked hard and saved the funds and you were all 200 hr pilots at one point with the same asperations
As for the folk who say they are experienced and cant get a job because of pay to fly, this indicates that every airline only takes on P2F...to my knowledge there is only a handful of these schemes running so that argument doesnt hold much water.
As for the folk who say they are experienced and cant get a job because of pay to fly, this indicates that every airline only takes on P2F...to my knowledge there is only a handful of these schemes running so that argument doesnt hold much water.
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Hey there Roy,
As much as I wish the Pay2Fly brigade would stop doing themselves and everybody else over, it doesn't neccesarily mean that everyone who does this is a sh*t pilot. It just that they've let their desperation take over them!
As much as I wish the Pay2Fly brigade would stop doing themselves and everybody else over, it doesn't neccesarily mean that everyone who does this is a sh*t pilot. It just that they've let their desperation take over them!
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The fact that you have new pilots thinking and expecting a jet job for their first job at 200 hours tells me someone told these guys something less than ethical in their training maybe just maybe to grab their hard earned money.
I blame it on the Flight Training units that trained them to not set them straight from the beginning.
Truly explain how the industry actually works. In my opinion, I think most of these schools will tell their students other wise to get their 40 or 50 K.
Some parts of the world, most and a very high number of pilots will not see their first Turbo Fan unless they have 3000 hrs tot and about 1000 turbine command, and that is the low end of the requirements.
I don’t want to sound like I am putting the individual down with this post but I think both sides are somewhat at fault.
I recommend maybe getting an instructor ratting, get some experience training, take your time to truly progressively learn the industry, and hard work will pay off one day, believe me as some posters had mentioned you need thick skin and lots of patience in this industry.
Good luck and fly safe
I blame it on the Flight Training units that trained them to not set them straight from the beginning.
Truly explain how the industry actually works. In my opinion, I think most of these schools will tell their students other wise to get their 40 or 50 K.
Some parts of the world, most and a very high number of pilots will not see their first Turbo Fan unless they have 3000 hrs tot and about 1000 turbine command, and that is the low end of the requirements.
I don’t want to sound like I am putting the individual down with this post but I think both sides are somewhat at fault.
I recommend maybe getting an instructor ratting, get some experience training, take your time to truly progressively learn the industry, and hard work will pay off one day, believe me as some posters had mentioned you need thick skin and lots of patience in this industry.
Good luck and fly safe
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cadet scheme
I don't care what anyone else say's I personally think cadet scheme pilots are trash. For someone to come into the game with a silver spoon and get into the right hand seat of a jet or turbo prop is ridiculous.
They might fly the big plane at a young age, but try and get them to land in a 30kt xwind on a 370m runway in a 3t twin.
But in saying that I disagree with them and spite that they are ruining it for the pilots out there that leave to go into places out of their comfort zone to fly, let these guys go into their BIG jet job with 200 hrs.
Lets see how quickly they get sick of the F/O position or S/O position when the computer does all the flying, enjoy you
because your missing some of the best flying and stories that you could ever have!
signed; a real pilot not a button pusher
They might fly the big plane at a young age, but try and get them to land in a 30kt xwind on a 370m runway in a 3t twin.
But in saying that I disagree with them and spite that they are ruining it for the pilots out there that leave to go into places out of their comfort zone to fly, let these guys go into their BIG jet job with 200 hrs.
Lets see how quickly they get sick of the F/O position or S/O position when the computer does all the flying, enjoy you
because your missing some of the best flying and stories that you could ever have!signed; a real pilot not a button pusher
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Is that what people really think?
I am finishing my CPL at the moment. Next I will be instructing at the school where I'm studying and help out with anything. Clean aircraft, hoover the floors and do paperwork.
The step after that is charter ops in 210's for a good 6 months before I get near a caravan.
I think this is where the fun is. Have spoken to some old airline pilots and said the best fun they had was during the 6 years before they got into an airline. Anyway, all that airlines are good for is pay and smoo.
I'm going to to have fun flying in as many different places as possible, now that I can.
Will worry about airlines when I have a family and need a Porsche to feel young again.
With warm regards,
A young humble pilot.
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Skycreature.
You have the right attitude, and yes it goes without saying that the GA industry of aviation though difficult and not the best pay is some of the best flying you will encounter.
Starting at a flying school is something I did worked up my hours and now fly twin engine charter, on not so bad salary.
Word of wisdom though, work on getting your 500 twin time after the 210's before going onto a caravan though turbine is good, twin is better
.Goodluck
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Avturbound
For decades 250 hour guys have gone from flight training straight on to jets. Are you seriously saying that the guys flying jets straight after flight training can't do what you do on a twin with a crosswind?
Thats a high horse your riding on .
Thats a high horse your riding on .
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Goaround
That's exactly what im saying. I was a senior flight instructor in Australia conducting regualar BFR's. I flew with a young couple, that fly for bisjet on the A320's and 737's. Came to australia to fly a mooney around australia. They were cadets and had flown jets for 3 years. The guy was average but picked it up ok, the girl could not land if her life depended on it. I failed her BFR for the equivalent conversion to fly in Australia as she was unsafe. A B737 is a lot different to a Twin piston.
I don't bs just tell it how it is. not all cases but many.
I don't bs just tell it how it is. not all cases but many.
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A B737 is a lot different to a Twin piston.
I wouldn't expect myself to be **** hot on flying light props now after time on a Jet, it'd take time and practice.
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...
fly a B737 well or safely, or indeed "manage" the aircraft and the flight.
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Maybe, but for most of you puppets out there it will be with the flight director still on and on a flat calm clear day watched by the beady eye of P1.
"Oh I flew it without the autothrottles" whoopee do..
I think what's being said here is that half of the 200hr jet gods have never experienced (cut their teeth) in what it really can be like flying a complex aeroplane single pilot IFR/ night etc. No ILS no radar etc etc, you will never understand how challenging it can be until you experience it for real, memories of which, always provide for some good banter on the flight deck.
Flying airliners is most definitely boring and less challenging in comparison. The best flying I ever did for sure.
"Oh I flew it without the autothrottles" whoopee do..
I think what's being said here is that half of the 200hr jet gods have never experienced (cut their teeth) in what it really can be like flying a complex aeroplane single pilot IFR/ night etc. No ILS no radar etc etc, you will never understand how challenging it can be until you experience it for real, memories of which, always provide for some good banter on the flight deck.
Flying airliners is most definitely boring and less challenging in comparison. The best flying I ever did for sure.
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I went straight to a jet at 300hrs. It is pretty easy really, do the TR, read the books, follow the procedure. The airmanship is something that takes much longer to develop. However, even now with 2500hrs (wow what a huge number) I am beginning to understand what people like Shaun are talking about. I definitely feel that there is a considerable amount of out of the box thinking that I quite haven't got the hang of yet, probably because I don't know what it is like to be plugging away in Seneca one Winter's night whilst listening to the prop ice slapping against the nose. I actually wish I had the experience, but I'm also glad to get a nicely paid jet job in a stunning part of the world, an experience I never even imagined
I guess it is all perspective. I recall during my MCC in a 732, how it just seemed like a big fat Seneca short of six levers.
A B737 is a lot different to a Twin piston.
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Shaun Ryder
No ILS no radar etc etc, you will never understand how challenging it can be until you experience it for real, memories of which, always provide for some good banter on the flight deck.