So where are all the jobs then?
Its not illegal for a flying school to tell you that airlines have 20 pilots per aircraft and that they will be needing pilots. Its wrong. But its not illegal.
The airline industry is going to contract and consolodate. Therefore some airlines will cease trading and their pilots will become unemployed. Experienced unemployed pilots have usually been seen as a far more desireable recruit than an inexperienced pilot seeking a first job.
Everythings in LASORS:
LASORS: LASORS 2008 | Publications | CAA
The airline industry is going to contract and consolodate. Therefore some airlines will cease trading and their pilots will become unemployed. Experienced unemployed pilots have usually been seen as a far more desireable recruit than an inexperienced pilot seeking a first job.
Everythings in LASORS:
LASORS: LASORS 2008 | Publications | CAA
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Scratching.....that may be the case. However if noobs only look at airline jobs right now they'll undoubtedly be disappointed. Nothing wriong with lowering your sights to get hours in the logbook, there's a whole world of GA out there too you know!
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Down under here in OZ everyone does the GA work and most say this part of their flying was the most enjoyable.
First turboprop job normally comes as an FO with 1500 hr's, and first command turboprop around 2000 hr's.
First jet job??. At the moment probably another 2 year wait
First turboprop job normally comes as an FO with 1500 hr's, and first command turboprop around 2000 hr's.
First jet job??. At the moment probably another 2 year wait
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Not everyone can up sticks and move to India or China for work, as you get older family ties can make it difficult. Its easy to do such moves when you are young, single and looking for your first job.
We took the plunge a year ago and it has been the best experience of our lives. The kids are in an international school and loving it. We have a lifestyle that would not be achievable in the UK unless on a bankers pension and the flying job itself is extremely rewarding and challenging.
Take my advice, don't close any doors.
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Hi.
I have a wife, and 2 kids, in grades 7 and 5, and live in Wisconsin. I was laid off in Dec from a small, US airline.
I just started a new job in NBO. My first rotation is: 165 days on/30 off.
It was the only job I could get...I'm relatively low time for today's job market...
4000+ total time
3000+ fixed wing/me jet
1000+ pic me jet
1400+ night
750+ actual instrument
2 me jet type ratings, and without any glass jet experience, or type ratings in anything new.
It is tough right now, but better than 1991 and better than 2001.
I have a wife, and 2 kids, in grades 7 and 5, and live in Wisconsin. I was laid off in Dec from a small, US airline.
I just started a new job in NBO. My first rotation is: 165 days on/30 off.
It was the only job I could get...I'm relatively low time for today's job market...
4000+ total time
3000+ fixed wing/me jet
1000+ pic me jet
1400+ night
750+ actual instrument
2 me jet type ratings, and without any glass jet experience, or type ratings in anything new.
It is tough right now, but better than 1991 and better than 2001.
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Life is a suicide mission
So where are you now? I see your post is a couple of years ago.
About 23 years ago I did what you did and now after 12,000+ hours on CASA 212, Embraer E120, Jetstream J31, DC-8, B727, B737, B747 and B747-400....after crap pay at 5 of my 8 airlines including losing my jobs due to furloughs and bankruptcies at 4 of them....after spending most of those years unsure of my future and fighting for decent pay and working conditions...after finally landing my dream job on the third interview 11 years after the first, then losing it 8 years later to Chapter 7 along with my hoped for 3000/mo pension as well as 2/3 of my rather small 401K I am now 57 years old with no job and no prospects....I'm collecting unemployment and I feel like a failure but I don't know what I'd do different if I had it to do all over again.
About 23 years ago I did what you did and now after 12,000+ hours on CASA 212, Embraer E120, Jetstream J31, DC-8, B727, B737, B747 and B747-400....after crap pay at 5 of my 8 airlines including losing my jobs due to furloughs and bankruptcies at 4 of them....after spending most of those years unsure of my future and fighting for decent pay and working conditions...after finally landing my dream job on the third interview 11 years after the first, then losing it 8 years later to Chapter 7 along with my hoped for 3000/mo pension as well as 2/3 of my rather small 401K I am now 57 years old with no job and no prospects....I'm collecting unemployment and I feel like a failure but I don't know what I'd do different if I had it to do all over again.
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Wow, atpcliff.
After I read your post, I realize that I have to settle down with driving a cab for a few years.
After thinking long and hard about CFI vs not trying to teach someone stuff that I my self have trouble with, I came to the conclusion that I will let someone who knows the stuff should do it instead.. Hehe (Not to say that everyone who become a CFI after their CPL suck, but I know a lot of them that don't, and a lot of them hate what they do.)
But I digress. I hope to just get a job flying some para jumpers or something like that.. At least here in the states you can get a job as that, dragging banners, etc.
Anyways, all the best to you guys with all the hours, and hopefully there will be a something for us low-timers to pick up in a few years.
After I read your post, I realize that I have to settle down with driving a cab for a few years.
After thinking long and hard about CFI vs not trying to teach someone stuff that I my self have trouble with, I came to the conclusion that I will let someone who knows the stuff should do it instead.. Hehe (Not to say that everyone who become a CFI after their CPL suck, but I know a lot of them that don't, and a lot of them hate what they do.)
But I digress. I hope to just get a job flying some para jumpers or something like that.. At least here in the states you can get a job as that, dragging banners, etc.
Anyways, all the best to you guys with all the hours, and hopefully there will be a something for us low-timers to pick up in a few years.
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www.PilotJobBoard.com
They seem to be getting some jobs. Many overseas, some in the US.
I signed up, they are a new site so they are keeping it free for now. Job post seem well organized.
I'm sending stuff out to everybody too, gets old with 15,000+ hours and nobody calls......again after multiple furloughs. I did get some response by overseas operators off this site but I'm not sure my wife will be willing to put up with that.
I signed up, they are a new site so they are keeping it free for now. Job post seem well organized.
I'm sending stuff out to everybody too, gets old with 15,000+ hours and nobody calls......again after multiple furloughs. I did get some response by overseas operators off this site but I'm not sure my wife will be willing to put up with that.
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tell me about it
Dont you worry, I feel the same in the accounting profession. I am a damn good qualified accountant and facing the same plight. No work for 6 months and with 15 years solid experience in top blue chip multinationals and its also all about who you know and the old boys club.
I have always wanted to be a pilot but have not had the guts to invest in anything more than PPL.
I would swop my 7 years of study and qualifications anyday for a job in the airlines but like in all interviews, it does not matter how brilliant you are... all you need to do is say one thing that does not hold sway with their views or ideals (and who know what they are its like a persons religion could be anything) and its like a long tight rope you can so easily slip off and out of the running.
How is the market and long term effect from the Credit Crunch? Is it very much worse and more risky than investing in a pilot career at time of sept 11 2001 ?
I never know when its a good time for anything it seems to be the luck of the draw as to what the market will be like when you complete all the training.
I have always wanted to be a pilot but have not had the guts to invest in anything more than PPL.
I would swop my 7 years of study and qualifications anyday for a job in the airlines but like in all interviews, it does not matter how brilliant you are... all you need to do is say one thing that does not hold sway with their views or ideals (and who know what they are its like a persons religion could be anything) and its like a long tight rope you can so easily slip off and out of the running.
How is the market and long term effect from the Credit Crunch? Is it very much worse and more risky than investing in a pilot career at time of sept 11 2001 ?
I never know when its a good time for anything it seems to be the luck of the draw as to what the market will be like when you complete all the training.
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Sucker
Can anyone tell me what other budget Airlines offer the cadetship programmes which involve me heftying out 30 000 Euro,..any idea how many people that go through this process are not inducted into the company?? What other companys have similar programme besides Ryan Air?? Thanks
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Hello there,
I read a lot messages in this thread.
To sum up: get experience, contacts, do not buy TR, buy TR...
Everyone has its own opinion.
What I can say about me and what I think:
I am a young flight instructor (24y/o) I am going to work for a FTO where we teach many cadets.
What is funny, these cadets will become airline pilot before me with less experience... sometimes I think WTF ??? welcome to the aviation's world where the logic does not exist!
I have passed my CPL/IR 2 years ago. Then I send out many cv, of course without any responses.
When I read this thread, I was telling to myself: ok, next step:
MCC or FI ? TR or not ?
I do not have rich parents and I am not rich.
So the question of the TR was resolved.
I had to think about the MCC or FI course. The price was not exactly the same but there was no huge difference.
I decided to take the FI course. Why ?
- I thought, why should I do a MCC if I do not fly right away ?
- FI is a great job and I would fly everyday maybe.
- I am in France, only a few people want to be a FI, because the pay is crap and most FI's here are volunteers, and young students want to fly a Big Jet.
So I did the FIC, and by chance I get a job right away and was paid! it was a full time job in a flying club.
Then I did my MCC.
With my experience I work in a FTO. That's my history.
What I think:
- I do no regret my FI ticket, seriously even if I would like to fly big jet, my FI rating helped me a lot. Without it I do not know where I would be...Maybe I would work in a shop or maybe as a flight dispatcher, I don't know. BUT what I know for sure, I would never have had hundred hours in one year without my rating.
Sometimes I am happy, sometimes I am disappointed. That's normal we all have our up and down moments...
I am happy to fly, to teach, to be paid for that.
When I am disappointed, I prefer to say discouraged, it is when you see your friends be called by the companies where you did send a cv too, but no response.
When you see your friends (a lot) buying a TR and get a job.
And you still fly a single engine piston...
I am happy for them, but I work hard, and it is hard sometimes to see others have job with less experience and work than you.
It is true, some companies will pay you a TR.
But when I see in this thread, " start in JAR23 aircraft, and later try JAR25"
I want to say, most of JAR23 operators ask a TR. (BEECH 90, 1900 etc).
I have met more friends buying a TR and get a job than friends with TR offered by a company.
My advice for those who are not rich.
Try to get a FI rating. You will learn a lot.
And when I see cadets, futur airline pilot with 200 hours, seriously it makes me scared. They fly a/c without understand what they are doing...
It is not their fault, the courses are shorter, and today the basic flights are considered less important compared to IR for example.
As a FI you will learn a lot of things and you will experience that you knew just what you needed to know for any test as a student before.
You will improve your self confidence, meet a lot of people.
I know we all want to be in a big jet jsut after school. But it is not easy, it takes time, months or years. Keep flying. Things will happen with time and experience.
And think that a plane is just a plane with gear, fuselage and wings.
Once you will know your A320/737 by heart, you will want to change again to 340 or 777.
Being human need objectives. As long as you have an objective you will keep faith and live.
Be patient, be good even if you are disappointed or sad, discouraged, do not show this to people, discuss with your girlfriend or best friend in private but show the good mood in the aviation's world.
I read a lot messages in this thread.
To sum up: get experience, contacts, do not buy TR, buy TR...
Everyone has its own opinion.
What I can say about me and what I think:
I am a young flight instructor (24y/o) I am going to work for a FTO where we teach many cadets.
What is funny, these cadets will become airline pilot before me with less experience... sometimes I think WTF ??? welcome to the aviation's world where the logic does not exist!
I have passed my CPL/IR 2 years ago. Then I send out many cv, of course without any responses.
When I read this thread, I was telling to myself: ok, next step:
MCC or FI ? TR or not ?
I do not have rich parents and I am not rich.
So the question of the TR was resolved.
I had to think about the MCC or FI course. The price was not exactly the same but there was no huge difference.
I decided to take the FI course. Why ?
- I thought, why should I do a MCC if I do not fly right away ?
- FI is a great job and I would fly everyday maybe.
- I am in France, only a few people want to be a FI, because the pay is crap and most FI's here are volunteers, and young students want to fly a Big Jet.
So I did the FIC, and by chance I get a job right away and was paid! it was a full time job in a flying club.
Then I did my MCC.
With my experience I work in a FTO. That's my history.
What I think:
- I do no regret my FI ticket, seriously even if I would like to fly big jet, my FI rating helped me a lot. Without it I do not know where I would be...Maybe I would work in a shop or maybe as a flight dispatcher, I don't know. BUT what I know for sure, I would never have had hundred hours in one year without my rating.
Sometimes I am happy, sometimes I am disappointed. That's normal we all have our up and down moments...
I am happy to fly, to teach, to be paid for that.
When I am disappointed, I prefer to say discouraged, it is when you see your friends be called by the companies where you did send a cv too, but no response.
When you see your friends (a lot) buying a TR and get a job.
And you still fly a single engine piston...
I am happy for them, but I work hard, and it is hard sometimes to see others have job with less experience and work than you.
It is true, some companies will pay you a TR.
But when I see in this thread, " start in JAR23 aircraft, and later try JAR25"
I want to say, most of JAR23 operators ask a TR. (BEECH 90, 1900 etc).
I have met more friends buying a TR and get a job than friends with TR offered by a company.
My advice for those who are not rich.
Try to get a FI rating. You will learn a lot.
And when I see cadets, futur airline pilot with 200 hours, seriously it makes me scared. They fly a/c without understand what they are doing...
It is not their fault, the courses are shorter, and today the basic flights are considered less important compared to IR for example.
As a FI you will learn a lot of things and you will experience that you knew just what you needed to know for any test as a student before.
You will improve your self confidence, meet a lot of people.
I know we all want to be in a big jet jsut after school. But it is not easy, it takes time, months or years. Keep flying. Things will happen with time and experience.
And think that a plane is just a plane with gear, fuselage and wings.
Once you will know your A320/737 by heart, you will want to change again to 340 or 777.
Being human need objectives. As long as you have an objective you will keep faith and live.
Be patient, be good even if you are disappointed or sad, discouraged, do not show this to people, discuss with your girlfriend or best friend in private but show the good mood in the aviation's world.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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To sum up: get experience, contacts, do not buy TR
Did anyone see this months edition of the BALPA magazine The Log? In it there is an article about 'How to survive the recession' and one of the points it makes is NOT to pay for a type rating without the prospect of a job at the end. Sound advice.
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One Fine Hot Summer Afternoon
One fine hot summer afternoon there was a Cessna 150 flying in the pattern at a quiet country airfield. The Instructor was getting quite bothered with the student's inability to maintain altitude in the thermals and was getting impatient at sometimes having to take over the controls. Just then he saw a twin engine Cessna 402 5,000 ft. above him and thought, "Another 1,000 hrs of this and I qualify for that twin charter job! Aaahh.. to be a real pilot going somewhere!"
The 402 was already late and the boss told him this charter was for one of the Company's premier clients. He'd already set MCT and the cylinders didn't like it in the heat of this summer's day. He was at 6,000 ft. and the winds were now a 20kt headwind. Today was the 6th day straight and he was pretty dang tired of fighting these engines. Maybe if he got 10,000 ft. out of them the wind might die off... geez those cylinder temps! He looked out momentarily and saw a B737 leaving a contrail at 33,000 ft. in the serene blue sky. "Oh man," he thought, "My interview is next month. I hope I just don't blow it! Outta G/A, nice jet job, above the weather... no snotty passengers to wait for ..."
The 737 bucked and weaved in the heavy CAT at FL330 and ATC advised that lower levels were not available due to traffic. The Captain, who was only recently advised that his destination was below RVR minimums, had slowed to LRC to try and hold off a possible in-flight diversion, and arrange an ETA that would helpfully ensure the fog had lifted to CAT II minima. The Company negotiations broke down yesterday and looked as if everyone was going to take a dang pay cut. The F/O's will be particularly hard hit as their pay wasn't anything to speak of any way. Finally deciding on a speed compromise between LRC and turbulence penetration, the Captain looked up and saw Concorde at Mach 2+. Tapping his F/O's shoulder as the 737 took another bashing, he said "Now THAT'S what we should be on... huge pay ... super fast... not too many routes...not too many legs... above the CAT... yep! What a life...!"
FL590 was not what he wanted anyway and he considered FL570. Already the TAT was
creeping up again and either they would have to descend or slow down.. That dang rear fuel
transfer pump was becoming unreliable and the F/E had said moments ago that the radiation meter was not reading numbers that he'd like to see. Concorde descended to FL570 but the radiation was still quite high even though the Notam indicated hunky dory below FL610. Fuel flow was up and the transfer pump was intermittent. Evening turned into night as they passed over the Atlantic. Looking up, the F/O could see a tiny white dot moving against the backdrop of a myriad of stars. "Hey Captain" he called as he pointed. "Must be the Shuttle. "The Captain looked for a moment and agreed. Quietly he thought how a Shuttle mission, while complicated, must be the-be-all-and-end-all in aviation. Above the crap, no radiation problems, no dang fuel transfer problems...aaah. Must be a great way to earn a buck."
Discovery was into its 27th orbit and perigee was 200ft out from nominated rendezvous altitude with the commsat. The robot arm was virtually U/S and a walk may become necessary. The 200ft predicted error would necessitate a corrective burn and Discovery needed that fuel if a walk was to be required. Houston continually asked what the Commander wanted to do but the advice they proffered wasn't much help. The Commander had already been 12 h ours on station sorting out the problem and just wanted 10 minutes to himself to take a leak. Just then a mission specialist, who had tilted the telescope down to the surface for a minute or two, called the Commander to the scope. "Have a look at this Sir, isn't this the kinda flying you said you wanted
to do after you finish up with NASA?" The Commander peered through the telescope and cried Ooooohhhhh yeah! Now THAT'S flying! Man, that's what its all about! Geez
I'd give my left arm just to be doing THAT down there!"
What the Discovery Commander was looking at was a Cessna 150 in the pattern at a
quiet country airfield on a nice bright sunny afternoon.
Author unknown
The 402 was already late and the boss told him this charter was for one of the Company's premier clients. He'd already set MCT and the cylinders didn't like it in the heat of this summer's day. He was at 6,000 ft. and the winds were now a 20kt headwind. Today was the 6th day straight and he was pretty dang tired of fighting these engines. Maybe if he got 10,000 ft. out of them the wind might die off... geez those cylinder temps! He looked out momentarily and saw a B737 leaving a contrail at 33,000 ft. in the serene blue sky. "Oh man," he thought, "My interview is next month. I hope I just don't blow it! Outta G/A, nice jet job, above the weather... no snotty passengers to wait for ..."
The 737 bucked and weaved in the heavy CAT at FL330 and ATC advised that lower levels were not available due to traffic. The Captain, who was only recently advised that his destination was below RVR minimums, had slowed to LRC to try and hold off a possible in-flight diversion, and arrange an ETA that would helpfully ensure the fog had lifted to CAT II minima. The Company negotiations broke down yesterday and looked as if everyone was going to take a dang pay cut. The F/O's will be particularly hard hit as their pay wasn't anything to speak of any way. Finally deciding on a speed compromise between LRC and turbulence penetration, the Captain looked up and saw Concorde at Mach 2+. Tapping his F/O's shoulder as the 737 took another bashing, he said "Now THAT'S what we should be on... huge pay ... super fast... not too many routes...not too many legs... above the CAT... yep! What a life...!"
FL590 was not what he wanted anyway and he considered FL570. Already the TAT was
creeping up again and either they would have to descend or slow down.. That dang rear fuel
transfer pump was becoming unreliable and the F/E had said moments ago that the radiation meter was not reading numbers that he'd like to see. Concorde descended to FL570 but the radiation was still quite high even though the Notam indicated hunky dory below FL610. Fuel flow was up and the transfer pump was intermittent. Evening turned into night as they passed over the Atlantic. Looking up, the F/O could see a tiny white dot moving against the backdrop of a myriad of stars. "Hey Captain" he called as he pointed. "Must be the Shuttle. "The Captain looked for a moment and agreed. Quietly he thought how a Shuttle mission, while complicated, must be the-be-all-and-end-all in aviation. Above the crap, no radiation problems, no dang fuel transfer problems...aaah. Must be a great way to earn a buck."
Discovery was into its 27th orbit and perigee was 200ft out from nominated rendezvous altitude with the commsat. The robot arm was virtually U/S and a walk may become necessary. The 200ft predicted error would necessitate a corrective burn and Discovery needed that fuel if a walk was to be required. Houston continually asked what the Commander wanted to do but the advice they proffered wasn't much help. The Commander had already been 12 h ours on station sorting out the problem and just wanted 10 minutes to himself to take a leak. Just then a mission specialist, who had tilted the telescope down to the surface for a minute or two, called the Commander to the scope. "Have a look at this Sir, isn't this the kinda flying you said you wanted
to do after you finish up with NASA?" The Commander peered through the telescope and cried Ooooohhhhh yeah! Now THAT'S flying! Man, that's what its all about! Geez
I'd give my left arm just to be doing THAT down there!"
What the Discovery Commander was looking at was a Cessna 150 in the pattern at a
quiet country airfield on a nice bright sunny afternoon.
Author unknown
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I have been reading this thread and others for quite sometime now. I am trying to understand how come there are no jobs when there i are so many cheap airlines out there. There must be other options for people rather than becoming airline pilot. But on this forum, what I can see is there is no scope after the training since there are no jobs as flying intruscotrs, no jobs for pilots, 1000s of pilots are out there waiting to get jobs. Does this mean that people like me who have always wanted to be a pilot (not necessarily airline pilot) loose hope and forget about it?
