What the hell are we supposed to do?
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Why is it a common theme that any poster who posts any common sense or criticism - be it constructive or not - is railed as an idiot, while "it will be OK" postings that are quite clearly not advancing wingbar's situation are welcomed?
Posters have to be highly vindicative to write on here out of spite - few do - what you are receiving in criticism and advice is from people who know what is required and what you should do to achieve it.
WWW - while you are right that there are numpties who fly at Jerez, you fail to recognise how this works even for numpties. People are forced into a training environment that puts them in the frame of mind to succeed - they are forced to work on a course that runs full time and are trained constantly while not being left to hour build and develop habits. You fall into the trap of thinking that somehow a recruiter can measure "desire" and "love" for the job. All they are looking for is a commodity, and I don't think your post helps wannabes to realise that they are ultimately required to be employees who fit the mould.
Ex-Mil Mates Clearly we are considering ab-initio, not your situation.
Wingbar
Don't even respond to me. Don't hit reply. Close your web browser and get off PPRuNe now. I actually want to get angry with me. Hate my opinions. Whatever - just do something to prove me and others here that we are wrong. Write a business plan for the bank. Speak to the bank every day before they call you. Restructure your loans with them.
Stop crying about it. Pull yourself together. Stop wasting time moaning on PPRuNe. Moonlight part-time in IT on mid-week days. Earn money in BK on non-flying days. Babysit, get a second job at night.
Whatever you do - don't come here looking for sympathy and crying about your misfortune. While you might curse me forever for being an unloving git, I post here solely to offer my advice.
You need direction and motivation.
If you even consider writing again on this thread, you don't have what it takes, as you are wasting your time, and failing to achieve.
Stop. Close browser. Return to writing CV. Set up meeting with bank. Repeat.
Posters have to be highly vindicative to write on here out of spite - few do - what you are receiving in criticism and advice is from people who know what is required and what you should do to achieve it.
WWW - while you are right that there are numpties who fly at Jerez, you fail to recognise how this works even for numpties. People are forced into a training environment that puts them in the frame of mind to succeed - they are forced to work on a course that runs full time and are trained constantly while not being left to hour build and develop habits. You fall into the trap of thinking that somehow a recruiter can measure "desire" and "love" for the job. All they are looking for is a commodity, and I don't think your post helps wannabes to realise that they are ultimately required to be employees who fit the mould.
Ex-Mil Mates Clearly we are considering ab-initio, not your situation.
Wingbar
Don't even respond to me. Don't hit reply. Close your web browser and get off PPRuNe now. I actually want to get angry with me. Hate my opinions. Whatever - just do something to prove me and others here that we are wrong. Write a business plan for the bank. Speak to the bank every day before they call you. Restructure your loans with them.
Stop crying about it. Pull yourself together. Stop wasting time moaning on PPRuNe. Moonlight part-time in IT on mid-week days. Earn money in BK on non-flying days. Babysit, get a second job at night.
Whatever you do - don't come here looking for sympathy and crying about your misfortune. While you might curse me forever for being an unloving git, I post here solely to offer my advice.
You need direction and motivation.
If you even consider writing again on this thread, you don't have what it takes, as you are wasting your time, and failing to achieve.
Stop. Close browser. Return to writing CV. Set up meeting with bank. Repeat.
Last edited by Lucifer; 31st Aug 2006 at 22:54.
Lucifer
People are forced into a training environment that puts them in the frame of mind to succeed
This training environment being an impersonal sausage factory that puts them in the frame of mind that they somehow are advantages by their 70k outlay and the early opportunity to where airline style outfits replete with gold bars.
- they are forced to work on a course that runs full time and are trained constantly while not being left to hour build and develop habits.
Could be read that they are unable to organise and achieve their own study goals and need constant monitoring and encouragement to succeed in training. Nobody hours builds any more - modular and integrated hours are very close. The days of bowling around the skies building up to 700hrs to magically upgrade a BCPL are long gone.
You fall into the trap of thinking that somehow a recruiter can measure "desire" and "love" for the job. All they are looking for is a commodity, and I don't think your post helps wannabes to realise that they are ultimately required to be employees who fit the mould.
I think a recruiter looks at license, how they come across at interview and how they perform in the sim ride. If I blindfolded any recruiter to the fact that 20 candidates came from an Integrated and 20 came from Modular then I swear the recruiter couldn't tell the difference from their licenses, their interview performance or their simride. And what is this mould that they must fit? I look around my crew room and you'd struggle to find a broader mix of personalities and flying historys. There is no mould.
Cheers
WWW
People are forced into a training environment that puts them in the frame of mind to succeed
This training environment being an impersonal sausage factory that puts them in the frame of mind that they somehow are advantages by their 70k outlay and the early opportunity to where airline style outfits replete with gold bars.
- they are forced to work on a course that runs full time and are trained constantly while not being left to hour build and develop habits.
Could be read that they are unable to organise and achieve their own study goals and need constant monitoring and encouragement to succeed in training. Nobody hours builds any more - modular and integrated hours are very close. The days of bowling around the skies building up to 700hrs to magically upgrade a BCPL are long gone.
You fall into the trap of thinking that somehow a recruiter can measure "desire" and "love" for the job. All they are looking for is a commodity, and I don't think your post helps wannabes to realise that they are ultimately required to be employees who fit the mould.
I think a recruiter looks at license, how they come across at interview and how they perform in the sim ride. If I blindfolded any recruiter to the fact that 20 candidates came from an Integrated and 20 came from Modular then I swear the recruiter couldn't tell the difference from their licenses, their interview performance or their simride. And what is this mould that they must fit? I look around my crew room and you'd struggle to find a broader mix of personalities and flying historys. There is no mould.
Cheers
WWW
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Help given...it starts with YOU
To Wingbar and anyone else who feels they're are their wits end.
There is nothing to be gained from whining, especially on this forum. Don't know if you have studied quantum phsyics. Our thoughts effect the electro-magnetic field around us. Like attracts like. If you are moaning and being negative about life what do you think you will attract into your life? The situations and circumstances to confirm what you are "putting out" into the universe.
Try changing your attitude, see yourself in a new situation, the one you WANT to be in. See your problem resolved (but not how it's going to get there, but be open to any path that leads to the resolution). Close your eyes when you are in bed and see it, feel it. Maintain this during your waking hours. If you do it correctly you will see a change eventually. The power is within us all. Just need to know how to tap into it.
This is not a philosophy, as it has worked for me.
The buck starts and stops with YOU. There is ALWAYS a solution.
Good luck.
There is nothing to be gained from whining, especially on this forum. Don't know if you have studied quantum phsyics. Our thoughts effect the electro-magnetic field around us. Like attracts like. If you are moaning and being negative about life what do you think you will attract into your life? The situations and circumstances to confirm what you are "putting out" into the universe.
Try changing your attitude, see yourself in a new situation, the one you WANT to be in. See your problem resolved (but not how it's going to get there, but be open to any path that leads to the resolution). Close your eyes when you are in bed and see it, feel it. Maintain this during your waking hours. If you do it correctly you will see a change eventually. The power is within us all. Just need to know how to tap into it.
This is not a philosophy, as it has worked for me.
The buck starts and stops with YOU. There is ALWAYS a solution.
Good luck.
Im afraid that in the real world 600hrs (Wingbar) does not immediately entitle you to an airline position - particuarly if the majority of that time has been spent in small light aircraft. At the risk of being ranted over, the acquisition of an FI ticket means precious little in the modern commercial world. Yes, I do realise that the likes of CTC are supplying 'cadets' to airlines - why, because they are cheap and a known quantity, even though in my opinion they should be leased out to small turboprop operators for a couple of years to learn their trade before being allowed anywhere near large jet aircraft.
It will come - just lower your expectations a little for the first couple of years.
It will come - just lower your expectations a little for the first couple of years.
Wingbar
Beamer is right. Unfortunately 600hrs isn't going to get anyone very excited in the airline recruitment world.
Whilst eghi r20 is correct that years ago the FI route was a well trodden path to the airlines it should be rememembered that years ago you had to have 700 hrs before you could take the commercial flight test (unless you went to Oxford or Perth for an approved course) and by the time most self improver QFIs had passed the cpl writtens/flight test/IR they were looking for commercial jobs with about 1500 hrs, and even then most didn't get straight into even a tp airliner but flew air taxis etc for a while.
Whilst at the moment there are some who are able to get airline jobs with low hours many cannot. However much you hate IT it pays well, the best advice, however much you don't want to hear it, is to go back to earning decent money full time and find a decent flying club where you can instruct at weekends to keep current whilst you keep job hunting.
Whatever you do, good luck.
Beamer is right. Unfortunately 600hrs isn't going to get anyone very excited in the airline recruitment world.
Whilst eghi r20 is correct that years ago the FI route was a well trodden path to the airlines it should be rememembered that years ago you had to have 700 hrs before you could take the commercial flight test (unless you went to Oxford or Perth for an approved course) and by the time most self improver QFIs had passed the cpl writtens/flight test/IR they were looking for commercial jobs with about 1500 hrs, and even then most didn't get straight into even a tp airliner but flew air taxis etc for a while.
Whilst at the moment there are some who are able to get airline jobs with low hours many cannot. However much you hate IT it pays well, the best advice, however much you don't want to hear it, is to go back to earning decent money full time and find a decent flying club where you can instruct at weekends to keep current whilst you keep job hunting.
Whatever you do, good luck.
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I have met some FAA flight instructors in the USA, over 2000h, licensed since 1990, and still flight instructor.(and good flight instructor).
this is a worldwide problem, and it is not only in aviation but in many sectors.there are 2 solutions for you: you give up and you take a stupid paid job which pay your rent and bills(with no real futur in the long term), or you do what you have to do to make it works(to do the job YOU want)...
I know many guys who would kill you to take your FI job.
this is a worldwide problem, and it is not only in aviation but in many sectors.there are 2 solutions for you: you give up and you take a stupid paid job which pay your rent and bills(with no real futur in the long term), or you do what you have to do to make it works(to do the job YOU want)...
I know many guys who would kill you to take your FI job.
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well I'm just getting very very drunk indeed! lol!
My parents won't speak to me, the bank are after me...and well after tomorrow I will have no car to drive to the airport....
WB
My parents won't speak to me, the bank are after me...and well after tomorrow I will have no car to drive to the airport....
WB
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Curiously though I have slowly started to look on the brighter side...I have some wonderful friends in aviation and out...and some lovely people on here as well...thank you for all being kind and helpful....I'll try my best I promise...and I'll do whatever it takes to get that job..because one day soon I'm sure I'll get to be that 'airline pilot'....I realise it may take years even from now....but I'm sure somehow I may be able to get there.
I think the IT will help me, and , I can at least sort my life out, I'll instruct at the weekends, and I have a superb outfit to work for to enable that to happen, so for that I ammost grateful.
I am however, very sad about only being able to instruct part time...and I will be devastated on the first day of work in the 9-5 world I worked so hard to escape from....I hope I can hack it all......thanks for all the support...I'll keep you all upto date....
Really, without you guys I don't know what I would have done through all of this terrible terrible time....so thank you for all of your advice and support...
WB
I think the IT will help me, and , I can at least sort my life out, I'll instruct at the weekends, and I have a superb outfit to work for to enable that to happen, so for that I ammost grateful.
I am however, very sad about only being able to instruct part time...and I will be devastated on the first day of work in the 9-5 world I worked so hard to escape from....I hope I can hack it all......thanks for all the support...I'll keep you all upto date....
Really, without you guys I don't know what I would have done through all of this terrible terrible time....so thank you for all of your advice and support...
WB
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Wingbar - You may have to do what i had to do. I instructed for several years and it slowly drained my finances until i was getting into trouble. I had to give up full time instructing and return to my previous career which i left nine years ago - luckily i managed to double my income overnight and carry on instructing part time which kept me current. Obviously going back into an office after several years of flying was very painful but i had no choice.
I have just been offered a TP job and i will be taking another pay cut but at least the salary is respectable and regular. The important thing is not to give up and try to get some good contacts in the industry which i think is by far the best way of getting in.
Good luck
I have just been offered a TP job and i will be taking another pay cut but at least the salary is respectable and regular. The important thing is not to give up and try to get some good contacts in the industry which i think is by far the best way of getting in.
Good luck
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wingbar
have you researched instructing in north america?
Florida etc has much better weather and the instructors I met were flying all the hours god sent. Apart from the odd hurricance when most people take the weekend off.
Cost of living much less than rip off Britain too.
just a thought .......
have you researched instructing in north america?
Florida etc has much better weather and the instructors I met were flying all the hours god sent. Apart from the odd hurricance when most people take the weekend off.
Cost of living much less than rip off Britain too.
just a thought .......
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teaching in the USA, it is not easy anymore since the TSA checks schools documents!
winbar, you say your family don't speak to you anymore, what the hell they think?, because you are a pilot, you would fly a MD11 and buy them a house with a swiming pool?
I have to explain to my parents(now retired), it is not because you have an university degree and/or a flying license that suddenly airlines will run after you...nobody will run after us,...
1975 is behind us! times have changed!
winbar, you say your family don't speak to you anymore, what the hell they think?, because you are a pilot, you would fly a MD11 and buy them a house with a swiming pool?
I have to explain to my parents(now retired), it is not because you have an university degree and/or a flying license that suddenly airlines will run after you...nobody will run after us,...
1975 is behind us! times have changed!
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Wingbar, been reading your posts and I understand your feelings.Aviation is a dubious industry at the best of times, I think you have made a sensible choice in working in your former industry during the week and teaching flying at weekends, that is a good balance. Be under no illusion about flying commercially it will in no way resemble any glamourous notions that are spread around, it is hard, stressful unhealthy and depending on your company quite insecure , just like many other careers today. What you will not find under this particular forums heading that many pilots are totally sick of it as a full time job and they move into positions where they can fly less and have more of a life outside of aviation. Naturally you want to get a job flying a larger machine, we all did, and when you have spent a large sum of money on training you want to see some justification.Once you have some regular money coming in during the week working far more civilised hours than you will find in this game, no doubt you will feel better and get more of a perspective on things, keep the instrucing up as well, truthfully its a lot more challenging than operating a modern airliner, you never know you might wind up doing some tailwheel training on a moth or a stearman, now we are talking flying not just operating in an airline job.
Keep your chin up, you will find what you`re looking for soon enough.
Regards Stratman.
Keep your chin up, you will find what you`re looking for soon enough.
Regards Stratman.
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Wing,
I will post this knowing that someone somewhere will shoot me down in flames. I am still at the very beginning of my training and studying for my ATPL's. I know the cost involved in training and I know how hard it is to get a job at the end of it. But I want to fly so much it is worth the risk. I have a mortgage and other bills to pay. So my plan. Simple I keep my job as police officer and plod on ( excuse the pun ) with earning money to pay for my training. It will take me a lot longer than the intergrated route, a hell of a lot longer but it's worth it. Get your job back in the IT industry and instruct P/T. You will have a good wage coming in and you will keep the bank happy. Fly ing P/T will also keep the hours coming in, and cost you nothing.
I dont know anything about aviation recruitment as I am not at that stage, and so can't say what they are looking for in people, but I have never met you ,and the opinion I form of you is that of a very negative person and that WILL be apparent when people meet you and will hinder you when looking for jobs. First opinions always count mate, so cheer up, get your old job back in IT and get applying for those flying jobs, even if it is only air taxi work. It's still a flying job and thats what we all want.
I will post this knowing that someone somewhere will shoot me down in flames. I am still at the very beginning of my training and studying for my ATPL's. I know the cost involved in training and I know how hard it is to get a job at the end of it. But I want to fly so much it is worth the risk. I have a mortgage and other bills to pay. So my plan. Simple I keep my job as police officer and plod on ( excuse the pun ) with earning money to pay for my training. It will take me a lot longer than the intergrated route, a hell of a lot longer but it's worth it. Get your job back in the IT industry and instruct P/T. You will have a good wage coming in and you will keep the bank happy. Fly ing P/T will also keep the hours coming in, and cost you nothing.
I dont know anything about aviation recruitment as I am not at that stage, and so can't say what they are looking for in people, but I have never met you ,and the opinion I form of you is that of a very negative person and that WILL be apparent when people meet you and will hinder you when looking for jobs. First opinions always count mate, so cheer up, get your old job back in IT and get applying for those flying jobs, even if it is only air taxi work. It's still a flying job and thats what we all want.
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Tudeski2004,
I wish you all the very best in your training, your idea sounds very sensible to me.
But for now sadly I must go back to the office I tried so hard to escape from ,I have yet again spent another day in tears, and have not left my room......
Good luck with your endeavors.
I wish you all the very best in your training, your idea sounds very sensible to me.
But for now sadly I must go back to the office I tried so hard to escape from ,I have yet again spent another day in tears, and have not left my room......
Good luck with your endeavors.
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I'm filling in all of my old IT stuff again...it's so so sad......and I think I may not be up to speed enough to go back to a similar grade I had before..I will have to take a lower level job just to get back in........
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They say it is better to have tried and not succeed
Instead of having never tried.
Chin up peeps we are still the fortunate few who have chased our dreams. Many simply don’t have the means to attempt it.
No Regrets………whatever the outcome. I have enjoyed the adventure.
Memories last a life time, what if’s and regret can eat you up inside!!
PS – any airlines out there want to give me a job !!
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Wing,
Good to hear you are listening to people now. Couple of things though. Coming on here and stating you spend the day crying etc etc is not good. You say you instruct, but are you REALLY in a fit enough state to instruct? I would suggest not. I don't want to sound rude in any way, but you should really go and see a doctor as it sounds like you are suffering from stress. Get that out of the way and things will look a lot better for you and the feelings of negativity will go.
Coming on here and telling everyone how crap life is is not helping. Trust me mate, I meet people a lot worse off than you everyday and they still amaze me with how upbeat they can be.
Good to hear you are listening to people now. Couple of things though. Coming on here and stating you spend the day crying etc etc is not good. You say you instruct, but are you REALLY in a fit enough state to instruct? I would suggest not. I don't want to sound rude in any way, but you should really go and see a doctor as it sounds like you are suffering from stress. Get that out of the way and things will look a lot better for you and the feelings of negativity will go.
Coming on here and telling everyone how crap life is is not helping. Trust me mate, I meet people a lot worse off than you everyday and they still amaze me with how upbeat they can be.
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I met a guy, over 40, 3 kids,one is a baby...
Borrowed a fortune for his ATPL. after 10 years, not hired, unemployed, then he went back to his previous job (radar controller).
Now he is happy, he paid back the bank, and he has a job(not a fly job).
What is the point to go through all this process?, when you are not flexible, having house, 3 kids, wife,...
Borrowed a fortune for his ATPL. after 10 years, not hired, unemployed, then he went back to his previous job (radar controller).
Now he is happy, he paid back the bank, and he has a job(not a fly job).
What is the point to go through all this process?, when you are not flexible, having house, 3 kids, wife,...