Criminal Conviction A Problem?
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Thanks Biscuit,
I just received one of them last week, all it outlines is the date and type of conviction.
I'm thinking that there must be a law which states that convictions are spent after a certain period of time? If so the airlines can't hold the conviction against me, but this is the real world and I know that this may happen.
Thanks again.
I just received one of them last week, all it outlines is the date and type of conviction.
I'm thinking that there must be a law which states that convictions are spent after a certain period of time? If so the airlines can't hold the conviction against me, but this is the real world and I know that this may happen.
Thanks again.
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I think after a certain amount of time you don't have to declare convictions to an employer but you'll have to check this. Maybe give Disclosure Scotland a call and ask them.
There's a bit more info on the 'Spent Convictions' section on the CTC website:
http://www.ctcaviation.com/wings/faq.htm
There's a bit more info on the 'Spent Convictions' section on the CTC website:
http://www.ctcaviation.com/wings/faq.htm
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You need to check the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act for the specific crimes you have been convicted of. As far as I am aware, Driving While Under the Influence is a civil offence and is unlkely to prevent your employment, but Assault is a criminal offence which may very well do. Your main problem is not going to be getting past the selection stage for an employer, it's going to be getting through the hoops you now need to jump through to get an airside pass. Disclosure Scotland do the Criminal Records Check for all employees requiring a pass to a BAA airfield; they should be able to tell you when a conviction is spent for that particular purpose.
Scroggs
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Thanks for all the input!
I understand the point that Vlad has made, however I know that I'm completely in control now, be it with alcohol or fighting.
From what you all have said, I'm sure I've just got to concentrate on the ATPL now.
I've just had a look at the Rehabilition of offenders act and it states that my conviction is now spent, I'll now check to see if I can get an airside pass issued - hopefully all should be well.
Regards
I understand the point that Vlad has made, however I know that I'm completely in control now, be it with alcohol or fighting.
From what you all have said, I'm sure I've just got to concentrate on the ATPL now.
I've just had a look at the Rehabilition of offenders act and it states that my conviction is now spent, I'll now check to see if I can get an airside pass issued - hopefully all should be well.
Regards
Last edited by APRIANA; 31st Dec 2004 at 10:26.
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Well done. Just in case Vlad is under any misapprehension here, a 'spent' conviction does not have to be mentioned to anyone, ever. The rehabilitation canditions for the offence are satisfied, and the individual is free to rejoin society with no blemish attached to their name. You might do well to remember that.
Scroggs
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Criminal Conviction A Problem?
I was hoping someone may be able to shed some light on the situation i'm in.
I currently hold a PPL, but am now thinking of working towards my CPL. My problem is that I was convicted for drink driving about 5 years ago, and although it doesn't effect obtaining a CPL, or perhaps work with smaller operations, I am worried that some of the larger operations may have a zero tolerance policy to this (which would be understandable), and thus I might not be able to get work.
Any sensible feedback would be greatly appreciated.
I currently hold a PPL, but am now thinking of working towards my CPL. My problem is that I was convicted for drink driving about 5 years ago, and although it doesn't effect obtaining a CPL, or perhaps work with smaller operations, I am worried that some of the larger operations may have a zero tolerance policy to this (which would be understandable), and thus I might not be able to get work.
Any sensible feedback would be greatly appreciated.
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Zulu Yankee you're 0.01% right!
An airline will ask you to obtain a 'basic disclosure' http://www.disclosurescotland.co.uk . This disclosure will list any convictions against your name received within the last 5 years. A conviction for DD only stays on record for 5 years, so by the time you apply to the airlines nobody will be able to find out about the incident. I thinks its mainly to do with being able to get an airside pass, but DD is not even a disqualifying offence for the purposes of the pass anyway.
Just get on with your training mate!
An airline will ask you to obtain a 'basic disclosure' http://www.disclosurescotland.co.uk . This disclosure will list any convictions against your name received within the last 5 years. A conviction for DD only stays on record for 5 years, so by the time you apply to the airlines nobody will be able to find out about the incident. I thinks its mainly to do with being able to get an airside pass, but DD is not even a disqualifying offence for the purposes of the pass anyway.
Just get on with your training mate!
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Thanks for the info.
I am currently hour building to get to 150 hour mile stone, then I will get my CPL. It is nice to know that there is some hope in getting a job someday!
Cheers
I am currently hour building to get to 150 hour mile stone, then I will get my CPL. It is nice to know that there is some hope in getting a job someday!
Cheers
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jonnoboy,
Worry not, tom24 is absolutely correct. After 5 years your conviction becomes 'spent'. The rehabilitations act of 1974 clearly states that of you are asked the question "have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence", you are allowed to say "no sir, I have not" if your conviction is spent. This is true whether it be on an apllication form or during interview.
You have nothing to fear, airlines will never find out unless you really want them to. Even then, I guarantee you it will not rule you out...
So as tom said, get on with your training and good luck.
J
Worry not, tom24 is absolutely correct. After 5 years your conviction becomes 'spent'. The rehabilitations act of 1974 clearly states that of you are asked the question "have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence", you are allowed to say "no sir, I have not" if your conviction is spent. This is true whether it be on an apllication form or during interview.
You have nothing to fear, airlines will never find out unless you really want them to. Even then, I guarantee you it will not rule you out...
So as tom said, get on with your training and good luck.
J
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Big Grecian has got it close
Interesting comments Meeb. Of all the 50 or so airline application forms I’ve browsed at in my time, about 2 of them ask whether you have any endorsements on your licence. Go look at BA's form.....
If it does so happen that you have to hand a copy of your driving licence to the admin people, by that time I’m sure you would have been accepted into a job, and if they have given you a job, I’m sure they are not going to take it back from you for some silly mistake you made years and years ago.......
Grecian, boy do I hope I never have to sit in a cockpit with you sometime in the future, or even come into contact with you full stop!
Some people think that pilots are Gods - they are not. They are normal, nothing special people who I’m sure have made mistakes in their past. I did an ATPL course and 10 of the blokes on that course were the biggest drinkers I have ever met - bloody top blokes as well! They had what is called a personality, something a lot of people/lurkers round here obviously do not have.
For what its worth, a friend of mine was called for selection for the Atlantique sponsorship scheme - at the time he had a DD convition that was 3 years old, so ask them how much it matters.
Maybe somebody in the know can clear this up for us, rather than us all having to listen to trash, off the ball comments from people who are obviously not in the know.
Last edited by Number Cruncher; 5th Apr 2005 at 16:45.
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God a lot of s**T is talked on this site!!!!! A DUI conviction 5 years ago will make f*** all difference to you getting or not getting a job. I have worked for 5 companies and NEVER been asked to produce a driving licence or disclose how many points/convictions there are on it. the last company I worked for, there were 2 pilots with recent DUI convictions that I knew of. The only people who were upset about that were their wives who had to drive them to and from work!!!
Last edited by Easy Glider; 5th Apr 2005 at 20:38.
L'enfant Terrible
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Following on from Jonno's post, I'm waiting on a DUI conviction (pleading guilty) for a first offence in the states. I'll be returning to the UK in November to try the job market.
Any advice or opinions (other than don't be so bloody stupid again) will be much appreciated.
SK
Any advice or opinions (other than don't be so bloody stupid again) will be much appreciated.
SK
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Quite an emotive subject. I just tried researching on the web to give a more constructive answer but it's surprisingly difficult to pin down an exact answer.
On hire car subject - You won't get one with a DD conviction. Period.
As for spent convictions that is an interesting argument, I don't think it's black and white. Certain jobs are exempt from the normal disclosure rules. The two off the top of my head are police and teaching. If you're a pervert, no matter when it was you'll never get a job teaching. Same if you were a thief, no matter when, unless you can prove some exceptional circumstance you will never be a plod.
In todays heightened security times, I would imagine airlines are allowed a bit more carte blance into researching your past. Saying it was five years ago so it doesn't matter may not be sufficient. And remember an airline doesn't issue your airside pass. But then would they consider DD to be such a terrible thing 5 years on. I can't see it in the list of disqualifying criteria.
I don't want to sound negative but research it further. Write to BAA about getting a pass, write to disclosure also. I hope it works out for you, but ignore the hot heads and take a calculated approach to your research. It could save you long term pain.
Cheers
On hire car subject - You won't get one with a DD conviction. Period.
As for spent convictions that is an interesting argument, I don't think it's black and white. Certain jobs are exempt from the normal disclosure rules. The two off the top of my head are police and teaching. If you're a pervert, no matter when it was you'll never get a job teaching. Same if you were a thief, no matter when, unless you can prove some exceptional circumstance you will never be a plod.
In todays heightened security times, I would imagine airlines are allowed a bit more carte blance into researching your past. Saying it was five years ago so it doesn't matter may not be sufficient. And remember an airline doesn't issue your airside pass. But then would they consider DD to be such a terrible thing 5 years on. I can't see it in the list of disqualifying criteria.
I don't want to sound negative but research it further. Write to BAA about getting a pass, write to disclosure also. I hope it works out for you, but ignore the hot heads and take a calculated approach to your research. It could save you long term pain.
Cheers
Last edited by silverknapper; 5th Apr 2005 at 21:50.
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Airlines do issue their own passes, albeit only two in the UK BA and easyJet.
All that is required for an airside pass is a Basic Disclosure certificate with no offences that render you unable to gain an airside pass. Click Here for the disqualifiying ones. On there is not DUI, as someone previously stated in the post.
You can now, by law, say 'I have never been convicted of an offence', and again as others state, certain professions demand you and can request your full history. At present Airlines do not insist on your spent history for this.
In short you are home and dry mate, despite what these guys say and if any recuirter says he wants to know if you have ever regardless of an offence being spent been done for DUI then that is in breach of your rights.
My brother had the same concern when he joined a major corp. (non-flying) and they wanted to put him on the pool car insurance. After much musing he just told them and they said it was in confidence, and they have several people on there with the same. In short, plenty in the same boat mate!
We can all get excited about this subject as it is one quite close to a lot of our hearts at the moment, with all the breathalising going on airside, but the long of the short of it is, you did the crime, you've done the time now get on with getting a job and dont listen to some people on here who love to get excited about how great they are and you arent.
All that is required for an airside pass is a Basic Disclosure certificate with no offences that render you unable to gain an airside pass. Click Here for the disqualifiying ones. On there is not DUI, as someone previously stated in the post.
You can now, by law, say 'I have never been convicted of an offence', and again as others state, certain professions demand you and can request your full history. At present Airlines do not insist on your spent history for this.
In short you are home and dry mate, despite what these guys say and if any recuirter says he wants to know if you have ever regardless of an offence being spent been done for DUI then that is in breach of your rights.
My brother had the same concern when he joined a major corp. (non-flying) and they wanted to put him on the pool car insurance. After much musing he just told them and they said it was in confidence, and they have several people on there with the same. In short, plenty in the same boat mate!
We can all get excited about this subject as it is one quite close to a lot of our hearts at the moment, with all the breathalising going on airside, but the long of the short of it is, you did the crime, you've done the time now get on with getting a job and dont listen to some people on here who love to get excited about how great they are and you arent.
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Just thought that anybody doing searches on this area in the future may find the following link useful. It provides a very useful summary of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, 1974.
'rehabilitation%20of%20offenders%20act%201974']Click here.
'rehabilitation%20of%20offenders%20act%201974']Click here.
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The link that Flying Counsel has given above is useful reading. Of particular note to some contributors is the section on exceptions to the act. One exception is where national security may be at risk. The reason for the disclosure scotland requirement is because of the threat posed to national security. Notwithstanding the contents of other acts it might be unwise to take supreme refuge in the R of OA in such a case. The Disclosure scotland website does however make it clear that the R of OA does apply to basic disclosures.
L'enfant Terrible
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Following on from my previous post, I'm relieved to say that the charges against me were dropped. That said, I'd advise anyone to not even contemplate doing anything as stupid as I did. It puts your career into perspective!
Climbs down from high horse.
Climbs down from high horse.
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Jonno, I was out at Bae Systems in 2001 and you would be gob smacked by how many people are in your shoes.
On one of our bonding sessions at the bar I was amazed to find out that just at my table there were 3 guys with drink driving convictions all within 5 years.
The previous posts between them all have valid points I feel but the reality of the situation seem to be less scary than you would think.
One of the younger guys at the table was extremely worried by the situation because he could not tell anyone about it including his family, so I offered to look into it with him.
The first thing I looked at was the reabilitation of offenders act and it stated that the conviction would remain on the database for such a time as any fine, imprisonment or disqualification for driving offences remained..after this it was removed.
Again it is true that it will indeed remain on your driving license for 11 years.....I belive that this would be the crux for me, because it is true that some airlines will want too see that ...who knows what might happen then....I suspect absolutely nothing, but even if it did there would be other airlines who would never ask to see it anyway.
Back to the guys around the table..I have kept in touch with one....guess what he is flying ATR's for a reputable firm now and never had a problem atall and I suspect his conviction actually still showed up....the other two have not yet had the chance to know if it would be a problem unfortunately.
I guess in my long winded way...I am saying that in my experience of seeing a few guys in this situation the liklihood of it becoming an issue after 5 years appears very slim and can then be circumvented anyway.
One final irony that may make a few people smile.....when we phoned the CAA for advice on my colleague we were put through to a very nice man who told us what was what....he used to be a Met Copper....we asked why he had switched to this......I was done for drink driving he said.....I think that shows we can all make a mistake and deserve another chance.
Anyway...sorry for going on so much...but good luck jonno ...I am sure it is tough on you but atleast you have recognised your mistake...I say go for it if it is your dream !!!
On one of our bonding sessions at the bar I was amazed to find out that just at my table there were 3 guys with drink driving convictions all within 5 years.
The previous posts between them all have valid points I feel but the reality of the situation seem to be less scary than you would think.
One of the younger guys at the table was extremely worried by the situation because he could not tell anyone about it including his family, so I offered to look into it with him.
The first thing I looked at was the reabilitation of offenders act and it stated that the conviction would remain on the database for such a time as any fine, imprisonment or disqualification for driving offences remained..after this it was removed.
Again it is true that it will indeed remain on your driving license for 11 years.....I belive that this would be the crux for me, because it is true that some airlines will want too see that ...who knows what might happen then....I suspect absolutely nothing, but even if it did there would be other airlines who would never ask to see it anyway.
Back to the guys around the table..I have kept in touch with one....guess what he is flying ATR's for a reputable firm now and never had a problem atall and I suspect his conviction actually still showed up....the other two have not yet had the chance to know if it would be a problem unfortunately.
I guess in my long winded way...I am saying that in my experience of seeing a few guys in this situation the liklihood of it becoming an issue after 5 years appears very slim and can then be circumvented anyway.
One final irony that may make a few people smile.....when we phoned the CAA for advice on my colleague we were put through to a very nice man who told us what was what....he used to be a Met Copper....we asked why he had switched to this......I was done for drink driving he said.....I think that shows we can all make a mistake and deserve another chance.
Anyway...sorry for going on so much...but good luck jonno ...I am sure it is tough on you but atleast you have recognised your mistake...I say go for it if it is your dream !!!
Last edited by Harves; 23rd Aug 2005 at 23:58.
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Dont worry,
I also was disqualified for drink driving. Since then I have had two airline jobs, and was called for a second day at BA ( so they did'nt care either ) just dont leave it off your application forms as they WILL have to know. Nobody has ever even asked me about it in an interview - good luck
I also was disqualified for drink driving. Since then I have had two airline jobs, and was called for a second day at BA ( so they did'nt care either ) just dont leave it off your application forms as they WILL have to know. Nobody has ever even asked me about it in an interview - good luck
