Dibden Manor: Nice place but...
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Dibden Manor: Nice place but...
Can anyone tell me how you can go down to the CTC selection day for phase 2, do group excercises, a personal presentation, 2 exams and have an answer via Email telling you whether you have passed or not within 2 hours of leaving the premises? I fail to see how they can properly assess a candidate in that space of time.
I went down some 4 weeks ago to do this stage and obviously did not get through and since then a number of friends have gone the same way and been told sorry but no you did not get graduate to Phase 3.
We are all English and Modular rather than Integrated and from Continental Europe. I wonder.......
And yes before some smart A*se says I am just bitter and twisted, I know I am. Also I apolojize if me spelleng is not 100 persente , (I know how you all like to jump on that bandwagon)
Discuss.
I went down some 4 weeks ago to do this stage and obviously did not get through and since then a number of friends have gone the same way and been told sorry but no you did not get graduate to Phase 3.
We are all English and Modular rather than Integrated and from Continental Europe. I wonder.......
And yes before some smart A*se says I am just bitter and twisted, I know I am. Also I apolojize if me spelleng is not 100 persente , (I know how you all like to jump on that bandwagon)
Discuss.
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Since most people posting on this board are not airline recruiters I dont think it is fair for us to speculate as to what is a 'fair space of time' to be told whether you have passed or failed. If you had been successful I would imagine you would be thinking how great it was you heard so quick and not trying to rally all the people CTC have failed together on a public forum and chew over their failings as recruiters. If that makes you feel better then great, but it wont change the outcome.
I imagine CTC have made ther mind up about you from your presentation, Maths/Tech Tests and group excercises inside this unfair 2 hour period. How long in the real world do you think they actually talk about you? Would you have prefered a phone call two days later, or maybe 2 weeks?, or maybe wait there and have the usual roll call of pass/fail candidates like for RAF Selection which is considerably less than 2 hours and I dont hear many complaining about that. It is called being efficient.
As far as CTC are concerned most fall into two categories: those that hate the place; those that love it. They have a proven track record of providing low hour pilots to airlines where the bottom line is minimum training cost and 'is this guy going to fit in?' If CTC can do this within 2 hours of meeting you, then who are we to say it is unfair? They are the professional recruiters, not us.
With around 12 new IR's issued every day Europe wide and 1000 or so low hour guys just in the UK and 45-50 places on their scheme of which 4-5 actually go in the pool every month this will give you some idea of the competition and the waiting time. I would hazard a guess this is why you can never re-apply.
You need to remember every recruitment process is fallable, we are all human right? I failed 2 airline recruitment days but got through CTC. I dont remember getting on here and moaning it was unfair.
I did modular, I am English and I didn't pass all my groundschool first time. To insinuate they are taking preference over our European counterparts is very spiteful and naive. Blame JAR and the EU, not CTC for giving everyone a chance. It appears to be the only place where if you are good enough, you will get through rather than 'Daddy plays golf with the Cheif Pilot' and I did Integrated at Oxford..
I know it stinks, and you are now left wondering what the hell to do but this isn't the place to vent your frustrations. You and almost everyone else on this board will find something. It is just a matter of time and a bucket load of effort.
Best wishes for the future.
I imagine CTC have made ther mind up about you from your presentation, Maths/Tech Tests and group excercises inside this unfair 2 hour period. How long in the real world do you think they actually talk about you? Would you have prefered a phone call two days later, or maybe 2 weeks?, or maybe wait there and have the usual roll call of pass/fail candidates like for RAF Selection which is considerably less than 2 hours and I dont hear many complaining about that. It is called being efficient.
As far as CTC are concerned most fall into two categories: those that hate the place; those that love it. They have a proven track record of providing low hour pilots to airlines where the bottom line is minimum training cost and 'is this guy going to fit in?' If CTC can do this within 2 hours of meeting you, then who are we to say it is unfair? They are the professional recruiters, not us.
With around 12 new IR's issued every day Europe wide and 1000 or so low hour guys just in the UK and 45-50 places on their scheme of which 4-5 actually go in the pool every month this will give you some idea of the competition and the waiting time. I would hazard a guess this is why you can never re-apply.
You need to remember every recruitment process is fallable, we are all human right? I failed 2 airline recruitment days but got through CTC. I dont remember getting on here and moaning it was unfair.
I did modular, I am English and I didn't pass all my groundschool first time. To insinuate they are taking preference over our European counterparts is very spiteful and naive. Blame JAR and the EU, not CTC for giving everyone a chance. It appears to be the only place where if you are good enough, you will get through rather than 'Daddy plays golf with the Cheif Pilot' and I did Integrated at Oxford..
I know it stinks, and you are now left wondering what the hell to do but this isn't the place to vent your frustrations. You and almost everyone else on this board will find something. It is just a matter of time and a bucket load of effort.
Best wishes for the future.
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Glaws,
Well I am from continental Europe and modular, and accepted to stage 3! In fact, I was at stage 2 4 weeks ago also, so we must have met.
I completely understand how disappointed you must be...I too have already failed a few pilot selections, and each time I felt like my dream was in tatters. Like TRon said it is a very competitive business and although I will go to CTC next week completely determined and with a postive attitude, I have to be realistic: statistically there's a good chance that I won't make it. It's part of the game, however tough it may be. However, if I fail, i will surely not put the blame on ctc, and I will certainly appreciate the fact that they let me know whether I've passed or not in the shortest possible time. It is a sign of efficiency and respect for those who undergo selection, nothing else. ctc have a great reputation for providing extremely competent and capable low hour pilots to major airlines and somehow I don't think they would risk that reputation by neglecting their selection process.
I know all this will not make you feel any better, but remember - in a week's time I may be in the same situation wondering what to do next!
TRon - excellent post. when did you go through ctc? Are you still in the pool? Any advice for those of us about to attend phase 3?
cheers guys!
jmc
Well I am from continental Europe and modular, and accepted to stage 3! In fact, I was at stage 2 4 weeks ago also, so we must have met.
I completely understand how disappointed you must be...I too have already failed a few pilot selections, and each time I felt like my dream was in tatters. Like TRon said it is a very competitive business and although I will go to CTC next week completely determined and with a postive attitude, I have to be realistic: statistically there's a good chance that I won't make it. It's part of the game, however tough it may be. However, if I fail, i will surely not put the blame on ctc, and I will certainly appreciate the fact that they let me know whether I've passed or not in the shortest possible time. It is a sign of efficiency and respect for those who undergo selection, nothing else. ctc have a great reputation for providing extremely competent and capable low hour pilots to major airlines and somehow I don't think they would risk that reputation by neglecting their selection process.
I know all this will not make you feel any better, but remember - in a week's time I may be in the same situation wondering what to do next!
TRon - excellent post. when did you go through ctc? Are you still in the pool? Any advice for those of us about to attend phase 3?
cheers guys!
jmc
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With reference to the post made by Tron this is indeed a public forum so why not come on here and air your opinions and views, thats what its here for after all be it they are negative or positive.
I have first hand experience of selection for the RAF/RN, not only as an applicant but also as as someone who got through and I can tell you they dont make their minds up in that space of time. The aircrew are invited to spend 3 days at either RAF Cranwell or HMS Sultan to undergo tests and evaluations. I believe that they assess you throughout to make a decision, not in a 2 hour window.
I have not been down to the CTC scheme but have heard several views on it from guys I have spoken to who have gone down, I agree it is a great scheme for a low houred guy to get through but Glaws does indeed have a point it does seem a quick turn around for a decision, all I can imagine is that they have an exact profile that they are looking for.
I have first hand experience of selection for the RAF/RN, not only as an applicant but also as as someone who got through and I can tell you they dont make their minds up in that space of time. The aircrew are invited to spend 3 days at either RAF Cranwell or HMS Sultan to undergo tests and evaluations. I believe that they assess you throughout to make a decision, not in a 2 hour window.
I have not been down to the CTC scheme but have heard several views on it from guys I have spoken to who have gone down, I agree it is a great scheme for a low houred guy to get through but Glaws does indeed have a point it does seem a quick turn around for a decision, all I can imagine is that they have an exact profile that they are looking for.
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Well, why don't we all look at this from another perspective.
What are CTC looking for?
Since we have brought up the subject of lots of Europeans lets stick with that. Why would they want more Europeans than English? Simple, if you want to spread the word of your company throughout the states its best to get people talking about you really and the cheapest way to do that is to take them on! Let’s be realistic, they want offices all over Europe; where in some states there aren't even corporate taxes! Why oh why do the English always have to look out for everyone else first, do we really think Air France would take on an English person instead of a National! God forbid!
By now you're either thinking that my God he's right! Or he's insane and probably didn't get through. Then you'd be right on both counts. I attended last year and I was dismissed in the usual 30 seconds of thought by the panel, and so were some fast jet/herc pilots and helicopter pilots who were way out of the league of all of whom got through to the end. Incidentally they were European integrated, far superior to our armed forces training admittedly (??).
Another oddity is during the personal presentation, did anyone else notice how they started writing furiously if you mentioned you did your ppl somewhere other than England? But wait, lets go back, why are they writing about you in your presentation? Why do they ask what degree you have or what school you attended? Perhaps if they had even bloody looked at the application I spent 234 hours on filling out the most ridiculous questions they might not need to ask. So from that we can deduct that they don't even look at it when they are deciding whether you get through, great all that wasted effort working my balls off for the ATPL's so that Pac-man and Ms Penelope can brush it aside like yesterdays newspaper.
Anyway, I have a great plan which will hopefully see an end to CTC and its discrimination and make sure that the English look after the English first, then we'll consider everyone else.
Gosh I'm exhausted.... where's that croissant?
ps if any of the grammar/spelling is incorrect and someone nit picks, I think they'd have a good chance of getting through CTC.
pps if any one mentions they are assessing our confidence and public speaking skills during the personal presentation, this I know. Still it is not a time to make bloody notes about you when they should have a copy of your app in front of them.
ppps I'm not racist, in fact I like continental Europeans it just that someone needs to stand up and look after their own.
pppps Can someone tell me why there are so many Australians in our airlines when we wouldn't stand a chance at getting in down there (I don't want to but it would be nice to have the option!).
What are CTC looking for?
Since we have brought up the subject of lots of Europeans lets stick with that. Why would they want more Europeans than English? Simple, if you want to spread the word of your company throughout the states its best to get people talking about you really and the cheapest way to do that is to take them on! Let’s be realistic, they want offices all over Europe; where in some states there aren't even corporate taxes! Why oh why do the English always have to look out for everyone else first, do we really think Air France would take on an English person instead of a National! God forbid!
By now you're either thinking that my God he's right! Or he's insane and probably didn't get through. Then you'd be right on both counts. I attended last year and I was dismissed in the usual 30 seconds of thought by the panel, and so were some fast jet/herc pilots and helicopter pilots who were way out of the league of all of whom got through to the end. Incidentally they were European integrated, far superior to our armed forces training admittedly (??).
Another oddity is during the personal presentation, did anyone else notice how they started writing furiously if you mentioned you did your ppl somewhere other than England? But wait, lets go back, why are they writing about you in your presentation? Why do they ask what degree you have or what school you attended? Perhaps if they had even bloody looked at the application I spent 234 hours on filling out the most ridiculous questions they might not need to ask. So from that we can deduct that they don't even look at it when they are deciding whether you get through, great all that wasted effort working my balls off for the ATPL's so that Pac-man and Ms Penelope can brush it aside like yesterdays newspaper.
Anyway, I have a great plan which will hopefully see an end to CTC and its discrimination and make sure that the English look after the English first, then we'll consider everyone else.
Gosh I'm exhausted.... where's that croissant?
ps if any of the grammar/spelling is incorrect and someone nit picks, I think they'd have a good chance of getting through CTC.
pps if any one mentions they are assessing our confidence and public speaking skills during the personal presentation, this I know. Still it is not a time to make bloody notes about you when they should have a copy of your app in front of them.
ppps I'm not racist, in fact I like continental Europeans it just that someone needs to stand up and look after their own.
pppps Can someone tell me why there are so many Australians in our airlines when we wouldn't stand a chance at getting in down there (I don't want to but it would be nice to have the option!).
Last edited by torpedoaway; 18th May 2004 at 13:00.
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Here, here.
Well done Torpedo man, its about time someone aired these thoughts on this forum.
Why are we so keen to open up our job market to all the other nations of the world when in reality we should be looking after our own. Maybe when all the UK national pilots have dried up then we could entertain the thought of recruiting Antipodeans, but they do tend to moan an awful lot. Whingeing Poms, my Ar*se. You should hear them moan.
UK airline, UK pilots.
Have a nice day.
Well done Torpedo man, its about time someone aired these thoughts on this forum.
Why are we so keen to open up our job market to all the other nations of the world when in reality we should be looking after our own. Maybe when all the UK national pilots have dried up then we could entertain the thought of recruiting Antipodeans, but they do tend to moan an awful lot. Whingeing Poms, my Ar*se. You should hear them moan.
UK airline, UK pilots.
Have a nice day.
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Whilst I am in no way opposed to EU pilots being given a fair chance to compete for jobs in the UK market, I only wish that this opportunity was given to UK pilots in the EU.
I am a type-rated pilot who has applied to many companies and operators within the EU (outside of the UK). And in my experience applications abroad are very very rarely given any consideration. I think out of the 25 or so applications I have completed, I have received 1 or 2 replies - obviously "No".
Whilst the CTC scheme does seem to prefer integrated students, and those from EU countries excl. UK, it is not the only company opening itself up to EU pilots. I have recently heard of several UK and Irish operators who have offered jobs to UK low houred pilots, only to cancel them at the last minute to give the job to European contract pilots.
Now this "may" be a case of giving the job to a more experienced pilot from within the EU, but how are UK pilots ever going to get the experience to compete??
UK operators must be careful to ensure they give the UK market an opportunity to grow, and the fair chance it needs, or the future for UK pilots and training schools will continue to look bad.
I am a type-rated pilot who has applied to many companies and operators within the EU (outside of the UK). And in my experience applications abroad are very very rarely given any consideration. I think out of the 25 or so applications I have completed, I have received 1 or 2 replies - obviously "No".
Whilst the CTC scheme does seem to prefer integrated students, and those from EU countries excl. UK, it is not the only company opening itself up to EU pilots. I have recently heard of several UK and Irish operators who have offered jobs to UK low houred pilots, only to cancel them at the last minute to give the job to European contract pilots.
Now this "may" be a case of giving the job to a more experienced pilot from within the EU, but how are UK pilots ever going to get the experience to compete??
UK operators must be careful to ensure they give the UK market an opportunity to grow, and the fair chance it needs, or the future for UK pilots and training schools will continue to look bad.
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Just one question. Did you get feedback from CTC as to why they chose not to take you? If so, what did it say? And if not, have you asked for it?
Oh and torpedoaway , whats your great plan? I'm intrigued...
Oh and torpedoaway , whats your great plan? I'm intrigued...
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Australians
Glaws and Torpedoaway,
You 2 are quite funny i must admit, I mean sure us Skips have a sook every now and then especially when we loose any sporting event. We whinge big time then. But i mean you two have started the ultimate 'Whinging' thread right here!
You went for selection and didnt get through. Big F*CKIN DEAL. Welcome to the real world. I'm sure you werent the only ones to get the boot. Lifes full of hard knocks and on the day they decided there were better candidates than you. Reading your comments its not hard to see why!
Glaws, UK Airlines, UK pilots. Fair comments i spose. But then again all us Australians (and every other foriegn pilot) have a British or EU passport, therefore we can work here. So on paper we are just as employable as you, just have a different accent..... 'mate'. If they select us foriegners, im sure their not goin, hey we'll hire that Aussie over a UK lad/lass. We just happned to be what they were after on the day.
Anyway, get over it. You didnt get selected. Dont take it so personally. Aviation is one hard industry to get into. A true test of ones character to see how you react to rejection. Do you take it on the chin and persue the next opportunity or do you pi$$ and moan about it? And cry about how the whole worlds against you? If you carry on like this and blame others (selection methods, the interview panel, foriegners) for your current situation and not take a closer look at yourself to see how you can improve and stand out, well enjoy staying unemployed for a very long time.
Have a nice day 'cobber'!
PS - Tron your comments are spot on.
You 2 are quite funny i must admit, I mean sure us Skips have a sook every now and then especially when we loose any sporting event. We whinge big time then. But i mean you two have started the ultimate 'Whinging' thread right here!
You went for selection and didnt get through. Big F*CKIN DEAL. Welcome to the real world. I'm sure you werent the only ones to get the boot. Lifes full of hard knocks and on the day they decided there were better candidates than you. Reading your comments its not hard to see why!
Glaws, UK Airlines, UK pilots. Fair comments i spose. But then again all us Australians (and every other foriegn pilot) have a British or EU passport, therefore we can work here. So on paper we are just as employable as you, just have a different accent..... 'mate'. If they select us foriegners, im sure their not goin, hey we'll hire that Aussie over a UK lad/lass. We just happned to be what they were after on the day.
Anyway, get over it. You didnt get selected. Dont take it so personally. Aviation is one hard industry to get into. A true test of ones character to see how you react to rejection. Do you take it on the chin and persue the next opportunity or do you pi$$ and moan about it? And cry about how the whole worlds against you? If you carry on like this and blame others (selection methods, the interview panel, foriegners) for your current situation and not take a closer look at yourself to see how you can improve and stand out, well enjoy staying unemployed for a very long time.
Have a nice day 'cobber'!
PS - Tron your comments are spot on.
Last edited by Poontang Luva; 18th May 2004 at 11:52.
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Just because we won the rugby.
(all hands brace for impact)
ps Caracul I will PM you when the time has come to unleash the plan!
(all hands brace for impact)
ps Caracul I will PM you when the time has come to unleash the plan!
Last edited by torpedoaway; 18th May 2004 at 12:14.
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torpedoaway
Your xenophobic comments, whilst amusing to some, could be perceived as highly offensive to others.
Take your chip off your shoulder, dust yourself down and move on.
Good luck.
Glaws
It is a tough world out there.. especially for the jet jobs initially.
However, as an ex CTC cadet, employed in UK charter airline flying... with a German parent company, who have just "loaned" us 12 German Luthansa cadets for up to 2 years... I am perfectly happy to see our European brethren flying our aircraft. They are all legally entitled to work here and speak excellent English and have faultless records.
Perhaps if UK wannabees stopped whingeing as much and worked on learning German, French, Spanish etc you may dp better in your search for work on the continent.
And before you slate me by saying "we could never get a job with Lufthansa".... one of the "German" cadets is an ENGLISHMAN who made the effort to learn German and got on the cadet scheme.
End of story.
Life IS fair, you just have to make your own luck.
Your xenophobic comments, whilst amusing to some, could be perceived as highly offensive to others.
Take your chip off your shoulder, dust yourself down and move on.
Good luck.
Glaws
It is a tough world out there.. especially for the jet jobs initially.
However, as an ex CTC cadet, employed in UK charter airline flying... with a German parent company, who have just "loaned" us 12 German Luthansa cadets for up to 2 years... I am perfectly happy to see our European brethren flying our aircraft. They are all legally entitled to work here and speak excellent English and have faultless records.
Perhaps if UK wannabees stopped whingeing as much and worked on learning German, French, Spanish etc you may dp better in your search for work on the continent.
And before you slate me by saying "we could never get a job with Lufthansa".... one of the "German" cadets is an ENGLISHMAN who made the effort to learn German and got on the cadet scheme.
End of story.
Life IS fair, you just have to make your own luck.
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Fluent in German, French and Spanish. NEXT!
By the way
Do you really think so! This is hardly a PC conversation is it! What do you expect oh barrow of wisdom.
By the way
Your xenophobic comments, whilst amusing to some, could be perceived as highly offensive to others.
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torpedoaway
I actually hope you grow up. And I hope you get a grip of your emotions.
If you cannot accept that I have given you some facts, then tough.
You probably aren't good enough to get on the course, that is the truth of it.
From your attitude on here, I am not surprised either.
The realities remain as I showed you in my previous post. That IS what IS happening in the business NOWADAYS.
All I can say is this: You are low houred, and I am glad because you won't get a job in the company I work for until you have a lot more hours and have grown up a bit.
I look forward to seeing you when you have matured somewhat.
Is that enough wisdom for you from my barrow?
I actually hope you grow up. And I hope you get a grip of your emotions.
If you cannot accept that I have given you some facts, then tough.
You probably aren't good enough to get on the course, that is the truth of it.
From your attitude on here, I am not surprised either.
The realities remain as I showed you in my previous post. That IS what IS happening in the business NOWADAYS.
All I can say is this: You are low houred, and I am glad because you won't get a job in the company I work for until you have a lot more hours and have grown up a bit.
I look forward to seeing you when you have matured somewhat.
Is that enough wisdom for you from my barrow?
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A couple of points regarding the ATP scheme:
If they didn't want any modular uk students they wouldn't have wasted their time inviting you for selection.
Approx 2/3 of the total applicants are not from the uk. No surprise that more of these guys therefore get through.
If they didn't want any modular uk students they wouldn't have wasted their time inviting you for selection.
Approx 2/3 of the total applicants are not from the uk. No surprise that more of these guys therefore get through.
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Torps,
Yeah u won the rugby. Good on ya 2! Its about time the English won at a sport they actually invented - i mean it seems for as long as I can remember every other nation would teach you lessons on how to play your own games!! HAW HAW HAW Just kiddin.
But if u wanna get into the rugby thing, yeah we lost. And from my pov we didnt deserve to win. We didnt play like winners and were lucky to make the final. Having said that i would have preferred to lose to any other nation except for maybe South Africa!
Anyway, i've moved on.............will you? (Yeah theres a double meaning in there son)
Take heed of Wheelbarrow's advice. You and Glaws do really need to grow up.
Actually im wrong, dont. Be yourselves and dont change. The rest of us wannabees need people like you going to interviews, coz when people who actually are decent (like yours truelly of course!
) follow you, we will look sooooo much better in the inteviewers eyes!
Yeah u won the rugby. Good on ya 2! Its about time the English won at a sport they actually invented - i mean it seems for as long as I can remember every other nation would teach you lessons on how to play your own games!! HAW HAW HAW Just kiddin.
But if u wanna get into the rugby thing, yeah we lost. And from my pov we didnt deserve to win. We didnt play like winners and were lucky to make the final. Having said that i would have preferred to lose to any other nation except for maybe South Africa!
Anyway, i've moved on.............will you? (Yeah theres a double meaning in there son)
Take heed of Wheelbarrow's advice. You and Glaws do really need to grow up.
Actually im wrong, dont. Be yourselves and dont change. The rest of us wannabees need people like you going to interviews, coz when people who actually are decent (like yours truelly of course!
) follow you, we will look sooooo much better in the inteviewers eyes!
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Bad luck Poontang or whatever you call yourself, I secured a job with an airline within 2 weeks of being rejected by CTC. Just a shame we will never know if we ever meet.
Deal with it.
This is a great site to reel in suckers like you.
Swing low and all that...
Deal with it.
This is a great site to reel in suckers like you.
Swing low and all that...
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Dear Wheelbarrow,
I'm not good enough to get on the course hey? I think that my results during my training would surprise you, certainly more than yourself I expect. But forget about me, what about the best of the best armed forces pilots and their inablility to get in? It's simple, they're looking for sheep not leaders. A wet sponge if you will that they can beat until they're a mindless drone, much like yourself I expect.
I can accept rejection no problem. It's when you're rejected and then they withhold the reason; for sport I expect. That or they can't/won't justify as its probably for immoral reasons.
Besides, you bore me. Don't reply as I shan't be looking again and if you must you can say whatever you want because I simply do not care. I was just sticking up for my country as many of you would, at least I hope you would.
Question: Whoever stated that I had low hours?
ps Wheelbarrow, if you're English you should be ashamed of yourself and I consider you a traitor. Send out the squad.
pps Hope this wasn't too emotional for you.
ppps I’m not having a laugh, I hate you all. Now go to your rooms (ha!).
I'm not good enough to get on the course hey? I think that my results during my training would surprise you, certainly more than yourself I expect. But forget about me, what about the best of the best armed forces pilots and their inablility to get in? It's simple, they're looking for sheep not leaders. A wet sponge if you will that they can beat until they're a mindless drone, much like yourself I expect.
I can accept rejection no problem. It's when you're rejected and then they withhold the reason; for sport I expect. That or they can't/won't justify as its probably for immoral reasons.
Besides, you bore me. Don't reply as I shan't be looking again and if you must you can say whatever you want because I simply do not care. I was just sticking up for my country as many of you would, at least I hope you would.
Question: Whoever stated that I had low hours?
ps Wheelbarrow, if you're English you should be ashamed of yourself and I consider you a traitor. Send out the squad.
pps Hope this wasn't too emotional for you.
ppps I’m not having a laugh, I hate you all. Now go to your rooms (ha!).