Dibden Manor: Nice place but...
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Hey Glaws,
Good on ya! Congrats on the job!
"Bad Luck"? Dude i dont take any pleasure in people failing to get where they want to. Sorry if that dissapoints you.
Umm but what exactly do you want me to 'Deal With'?
That we'll never meet? I'm sure ill manage 
If your happily employed why bother starting a thread like this? To 'sucker' people in? Does that make you feel 'big' or 'special' or more 'important'?
Mate you have the dream..... dont be such a sack
Hope your enjoying the flying with your airline.
Pierre - Yeah i know mate, but had an afternnon to kill so i bit for some fun! If i thought this was serious I would have been more offended than anything.
PS - Torps your right. Not getting feedback on your performance during an interview does suck, as you obviously dont know what areas you need to improve for next time. See even a lowly Aussie can agree with you on some things! Cant we all just get along? Who feels like a hug?
Good on ya! Congrats on the job!
"Bad Luck"? Dude i dont take any pleasure in people failing to get where they want to. Sorry if that dissapoints you.
Umm but what exactly do you want me to 'Deal With'?
That we'll never meet? I'm sure ill manage If your happily employed why bother starting a thread like this? To 'sucker' people in? Does that make you feel 'big' or 'special' or more 'important'?
Mate you have the dream..... dont be such a sack
Hope your enjoying the flying with your airline.
Pierre - Yeah i know mate, but had an afternnon to kill so i bit for some fun! If i thought this was serious I would have been more offended than anything.
PS - Torps your right. Not getting feedback on your performance during an interview does suck, as you obviously dont know what areas you need to improve for next time. See even a lowly Aussie can agree with you on some things! Cant we all just get along? Who feels like a hug?
Thread Starter
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Very big very special. Must find something better to do on my days off.
My sincere apologies to you Putang you are clearly upset. Can I suggest you fire up the barby.
Love and kisses
G
My sincere apologies to you Putang you are clearly upset. Can I suggest you fire up the barby.
Love and kisses
G
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topedoaway
Sounds to me mate, like you are ex forces and it wont take Einstein to figure you are ex-Navy.
The only plausable explanation I can gain as to why you would be out of the Navy is that you were chopped, hence the reason you are not 'Low Hours' but still eligible for the ATP Scheme as you are arent 'experienced' i.e. over 600-700 Hours.
As soon as the words 'training risk' and your name are in the same sentence at anywhere including CTC they move onto the next guy/girl. They can, it sucks, thats the market. Did you pt on your application form that you had failed but said something in your presentation ?
Those in the forces will have you believe that there way is the best, the most professional, and the hardest. Hence most come out thinking the sun shines out of their arse, and they can do any job in Civil Aviation. Who know why they didn't go for you, and unfortunately you'll never know either. Thats just the way it is!!
There are great pilots either side of the Forces/Civil boundary and these days it isn't about flying the aircraft anymore. It's about fitting in and getting on with the guy next to you. CRM. Maybe in their experience forces pilots of a certain character type dont fit in but can fly the aircraft like a god. Unfortunately you cant do one and not the other in todays climate, i.e. employers can be as picky as they like.....maybe it will change in the future and we will all be laughing. Until that happens we just have to 'bow to the priest and take one in the ass.'
Sounds to me mate, like you are ex forces and it wont take Einstein to figure you are ex-Navy.
The only plausable explanation I can gain as to why you would be out of the Navy is that you were chopped, hence the reason you are not 'Low Hours' but still eligible for the ATP Scheme as you are arent 'experienced' i.e. over 600-700 Hours.
As soon as the words 'training risk' and your name are in the same sentence at anywhere including CTC they move onto the next guy/girl. They can, it sucks, thats the market. Did you pt on your application form that you had failed but said something in your presentation ?
Those in the forces will have you believe that there way is the best, the most professional, and the hardest. Hence most come out thinking the sun shines out of their arse, and they can do any job in Civil Aviation. Who know why they didn't go for you, and unfortunately you'll never know either. Thats just the way it is!!
There are great pilots either side of the Forces/Civil boundary and these days it isn't about flying the aircraft anymore. It's about fitting in and getting on with the guy next to you. CRM. Maybe in their experience forces pilots of a certain character type dont fit in but can fly the aircraft like a god. Unfortunately you cant do one and not the other in todays climate, i.e. employers can be as picky as they like.....maybe it will change in the future and we will all be laughing. Until that happens we just have to 'bow to the priest and take one in the ass.'
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Glaws, I already have mate, havin some people over shortly for a nice spot of dinner! They're all English too!!!!!!!! Shock, horror!
And no im not 'upset' in the slightest. This thread has been a good laff but i think i'll bugger off now.
Torps! Cheers for the link! But where are the roo and sheep clips!
Take it easy boys (i think ur all boys) its been fun!!
PS - hopefully i do end up on the same deck as u two. Would have a good old laugh i reckon during the cruise!
And no im not 'upset' in the slightest. This thread has been a good laff but i think i'll bugger off now.
Torps! Cheers for the link!
But where are the roo and sheep clips! Take it easy boys (i think ur all boys) its been fun!!
PS - hopefully i do end up on the same deck as u two. Would have a good old laugh i reckon during the cruise!
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While 2 hours is an inordinately short time in which to assess a candidate who broadly meets the requirements of an employer, it can take less than 5 minutes if it is immediately obvious that the candidate does not meet a particular criterion, or that the candidate is patently not suited to life in a cramped cockpit with the guys behind the desk. Let's face it: if I don't like you, you're not getting in my company!
As for foreign pilots flying "British' aircraft, your argument should be with the law of the land, not with the employers who exploit that law. Of course, you are certain that the aircraft you wish to fly are owned by an entirely British company with no foreign capital represented? No? Time you went and did some research, then, isn't it?
Scroggs
As for foreign pilots flying "British' aircraft, your argument should be with the law of the land, not with the employers who exploit that law. Of course, you are certain that the aircraft you wish to fly are owned by an entirely British company with no foreign capital represented? No? Time you went and did some research, then, isn't it?
Scroggs
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Re above comments on european pilots, I've applied to some european carriers recently and had little feedback, even had an austrian outfit wanting all the air law exams completed in German even though I've a JAR licence already, anyway I'm pretty certain that a English national would find it nearly impossible to secure a position with AF or IB for example. The recent post about KLMuk pilots and their treatment at the hands of KLM mainline is ridiculous, shouldnt be allowed and hopefully AF will rip apart this airline in good time, one question though..has the european/JAR licensing had any benefit to majority of UK pilots??
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torpedoaway
I am glad you will never read my reply to your second SHAMEFUL outburst. Your postings are so risibly pathetic that you are beyond salvation in a decent airline environment. Stick to whingeing and bitching.
Sheep and Leaders? Well, if I am a sheep, I am happy to be associated with CTC:
Boeing 757 and 767,
Airbus A318,19,20 and 21 ratings in my licence.
Decent seniority and a Nice pension scheme currently to boot.
3 Years into my career...and only 30 years old.
If that makes me a sheep, well thank god I bleated nicely at the Manor all those years ago......
All other readers,
Don't be put off by the rantings of a couple of losers in the CTC game. Not everyone gets in, but if you do, your life is made very palatable.
Baaaa, Baaa, Baaaa ( A Sheep noise etc...)
I am glad you will never read my reply to your second SHAMEFUL outburst. Your postings are so risibly pathetic that you are beyond salvation in a decent airline environment. Stick to whingeing and bitching.
Sheep and Leaders? Well, if I am a sheep, I am happy to be associated with CTC:
Boeing 757 and 767,
Airbus A318,19,20 and 21 ratings in my licence.
Decent seniority and a Nice pension scheme currently to boot.
3 Years into my career...and only 30 years old.
If that makes me a sheep, well thank god I bleated nicely at the Manor all those years ago......
All other readers,
Don't be put off by the rantings of a couple of losers in the CTC game. Not everyone gets in, but if you do, your life is made very palatable.
Baaaa, Baaa, Baaaa ( A Sheep noise etc...)
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I came through the ATP scheme and naturally know many others as well. As far as I can make out, CTC do not give a jot where you are from, what sex you are, what background you have (modular/integrated) or how many hours you have as long as you meet the criteria. (I had 1500 piston hours when I came through the scheme)
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Glaws
If you failed the maths or tech tests it won't take two minutes to decide whether your getting through. Surprised they don't tell people on their way out the door at lunch time!
If you failed the maths or tech tests it won't take two minutes to decide whether your getting through. Surprised they don't tell people on their way out the door at lunch time!
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Wheelbarrow, a search of your previous posts reveals you are a rather confrontational individual who seems to get involved in spats on just about every thread you engage in.
I rather doubt your seniority is that decent given that you appear to have been working for a freight airline not so long ago.
CTC is undoubtedly here to stay as it a means of out-sourcing training for airlines. Torpedoaway, don't be too disappointed. I know an awful lot of good pilots who were rejected by CTC for some reason or another. They made it and have never looked back.
CTC is not the last chance saloon. In the same way that many good pilots are rejected by CTC, some idiots get accepted onto it. I have flown with some of them !
If I had my career again, lining the pockets of some senior captains at CTC would be my last choice of getting into the game.
Undoubtedly, the training there is good and some excellent cadets have come through. But don't be disheartened by the comments of a few who think that because they got through the system they are better than you. Good luck.
I rather doubt your seniority is that decent given that you appear to have been working for a freight airline not so long ago.
CTC is undoubtedly here to stay as it a means of out-sourcing training for airlines. Torpedoaway, don't be too disappointed. I know an awful lot of good pilots who were rejected by CTC for some reason or another. They made it and have never looked back.
CTC is not the last chance saloon. In the same way that many good pilots are rejected by CTC, some idiots get accepted onto it. I have flown with some of them !
If I had my career again, lining the pockets of some senior captains at CTC would be my last choice of getting into the game.
Undoubtedly, the training there is good and some excellent cadets have come through. But don't be disheartened by the comments of a few who think that because they got through the system they are better than you. Good luck.
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Orion Man,
Wheelbarrow is a name used by several individuals. Not just me.
I worked for DHL ON LOAN..... so not is all it seems.
My seniority is fine thanks. As I have worked for longet at my employer than you imagine.
As for confrontational, reread the other posts at the beginning of the thread..... as for lining the pockets of senior people at CTC.... did you have a little fall out with someone there when Orion were bought by Britannia? Sounds interesting and plausible to me!
Don't worry about me mate, I'm fine. Thanks to CTC!
Wheelbarrow is a name used by several individuals. Not just me.
I worked for DHL ON LOAN..... so not is all it seems.
My seniority is fine thanks. As I have worked for longet at my employer than you imagine.
As for confrontational, reread the other posts at the beginning of the thread..... as for lining the pockets of senior people at CTC.... did you have a little fall out with someone there when Orion were bought by Britannia? Sounds interesting and plausible to me!
Don't worry about me mate, I'm fine. Thanks to CTC!
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Orion Man your comments are interesting considering you have actually flown with some of these CTC characters, perhaps they are geeks after all?
I myself have no intention of applying to CTC since it’s obviously a money making scam and anyone with any kind of business training should be able to spot it from a few hundred miles and dismiss it at a glance.
I read earlier with interest that Torpedoaway and a few others stated that there were many Europeans getting through, well this is a part of money making I'm afraid. The few(I have put that in Italics because lets be honest easyJet and Monarch don't compromise of all the world's airlines!) airlines may not get the best recruits, but at least they get enough yes men/women to tow the line through the bad times. Which is what the scheme was set up for(?)
Wheelbarrow you seem very defensive, why is that? Something to hide? A spotters guide underneath the bed perhaps? Whatever it is please remove it from where the sun just doesn't shine.
Just referring back to the number of foreigners. We have several companies abroad, well that's just an underestimate since England (yes I mean England) has the Fourth largest economy in the world. Though these companies’ branches abroad don't have foreign investment, they are still required to have 60-99% nationals working in that branch depending on the country's laws. So in retort to an earlier statement by someone, a company in Britain should bl**dy well have all British workers.
Let's be honest, if Air France had several openings and they had a choice of 100 foreigners (all fluent in French) and 1 national what choice do you think they'd make? If you said one of the foreigners I suggest you look at the amount of European law suits (well into 4 figures) pending against France for not abiding by European law. Funny that isn't it since it's the French who wanted a European Union! This is of no disrespect to the French; they are looking out for their own, just as we should do.
Curious.
Now lets stop this thread people because it doesn’t seem to be doing anyone any good does it? I'm off to play golf now, so you chaps play nice ya hear!
Regards,
Henry
I myself have no intention of applying to CTC since it’s obviously a money making scam and anyone with any kind of business training should be able to spot it from a few hundred miles and dismiss it at a glance.
I read earlier with interest that Torpedoaway and a few others stated that there were many Europeans getting through, well this is a part of money making I'm afraid. The few(I have put that in Italics because lets be honest easyJet and Monarch don't compromise of all the world's airlines!) airlines may not get the best recruits, but at least they get enough yes men/women to tow the line through the bad times. Which is what the scheme was set up for(?)
Wheelbarrow you seem very defensive, why is that? Something to hide? A spotters guide underneath the bed perhaps? Whatever it is please remove it from where the sun just doesn't shine.
Just referring back to the number of foreigners. We have several companies abroad, well that's just an underestimate since England (yes I mean England) has the Fourth largest economy in the world. Though these companies’ branches abroad don't have foreign investment, they are still required to have 60-99% nationals working in that branch depending on the country's laws. So in retort to an earlier statement by someone, a company in Britain should bl**dy well have all British workers.
Let's be honest, if Air France had several openings and they had a choice of 100 foreigners (all fluent in French) and 1 national what choice do you think they'd make? If you said one of the foreigners I suggest you look at the amount of European law suits (well into 4 figures) pending against France for not abiding by European law. Funny that isn't it since it's the French who wanted a European Union! This is of no disrespect to the French; they are looking out for their own, just as we should do.
Curious.
Now lets stop this thread people because it doesn’t seem to be doing anyone any good does it? I'm off to play golf now, so you chaps play nice ya hear!
Regards,
Henry
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Wheelbarrow,
More the fool you if you are letting other people post opinions on your pprune handle.
From what I can make from your previous posts you probably work for Thomas Cook having had to take a career break as the pilots at the bottom of their seniority list had to leave post 9/11 due to cost cutting. I do not believe they have recruited since bar a dozen German cadets borrowed from Lufthansa. So I doubt your seniority is that great somehow. Correct me if I'm wrong. As regards Orion and Britannia, I have no enemies that I know of at CTC. In fact, I can't remember if CTC actually existed when Thomson took over Horizon.
HenryIV, the vast majority of the CTC cadets are very able that I have come across. There are of course a few arrogant types that think that because they got their job through CTC, they are born with a silver spoon up their a..e. CTC cadets are no better than any other low hours pilots I have flown with.
All i'm saying is it wouldn't be my choice for training as you are lining someone else's pockets.
Regards Orion Man.
More the fool you if you are letting other people post opinions on your pprune handle.
From what I can make from your previous posts you probably work for Thomas Cook having had to take a career break as the pilots at the bottom of their seniority list had to leave post 9/11 due to cost cutting. I do not believe they have recruited since bar a dozen German cadets borrowed from Lufthansa. So I doubt your seniority is that great somehow. Correct me if I'm wrong. As regards Orion and Britannia, I have no enemies that I know of at CTC. In fact, I can't remember if CTC actually existed when Thomson took over Horizon.
HenryIV, the vast majority of the CTC cadets are very able that I have come across. There are of course a few arrogant types that think that because they got their job through CTC, they are born with a silver spoon up their a..e. CTC cadets are no better than any other low hours pilots I have flown with.
All i'm saying is it wouldn't be my choice for training as you are lining someone else's pockets.
Regards Orion Man.
Last edited by Orion Man; 31st May 2004 at 20:44.
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So what about Astraeus/Bond, easyJet TRSS, Ryanair, emerald, BAC Express and almost every other operator that make you pay for a type rating?
Surely you are lining their pockets? Fine so CTC make a few pounds off our heads. I can live with that. Lets face it, guys are paying for a type rating and 200 hours on type for 40-50k.....Just on the off chance of a job or improving their chances.
It would be interesting to see what your choice of Training provider would be in todays climate? Very easy to say dont line anyones pockets when you are in a job.
As for Thomas Cook not recruiting, they took 2 CTC McAlpine guys last month.
Surely you are lining their pockets? Fine so CTC make a few pounds off our heads. I can live with that. Lets face it, guys are paying for a type rating and 200 hours on type for 40-50k.....Just on the off chance of a job or improving their chances.
It would be interesting to see what your choice of Training provider would be in todays climate? Very easy to say dont line anyones pockets when you are in a job.
As for Thomas Cook not recruiting, they took 2 CTC McAlpine guys last month.
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Orionman,
More fool me if I let others post on my handle? This is not MY handle! Perhaps the other way round!
As for great seniority? I never said great did I? I said decent. TCUK recruitment is not my strongpoint. I believe however they MAY have recruited a few more than you imagine... and quite a few have left the company too.
As for the rest of the discussion, you seem to just want to put me down rather than offer a cogent argument. Remember I have first hand experience of CTC, you don't it appears and neither do the other contributors on here. Especially the bitter ones at the beginning of this post, who posted xenophobic, offensive comments.
More fool me if I let others post on my handle? This is not MY handle! Perhaps the other way round!
As for great seniority? I never said great did I? I said decent. TCUK recruitment is not my strongpoint. I believe however they MAY have recruited a few more than you imagine... and quite a few have left the company too.
As for the rest of the discussion, you seem to just want to put me down rather than offer a cogent argument. Remember I have first hand experience of CTC, you don't it appears and neither do the other contributors on here. Especially the bitter ones at the beginning of this post, who posted xenophobic, offensive comments.
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Henry IV, I put it to you that your an idiot & know very little about CTC other than what your own inadequacies would have you believe.
An 'obvious scam' no less. I hope Easyjet, TC, Brittania, Monarch et al are aware that they are being 'scammed', perhaps you ought to write and enlighten them as you have us.
As for their cadets, sorry 'geeks', getting a paid for jet type rating, 400 odd hours on type and being paid tax free in the process must be awful, warn them too.
CTC have created a clever niche in the market and make good money from it, but every one involved benefits, from the airlines to the cadets they recruit. It is the fact that everyone involved benefits that makes it so successful.
As for your comment, 'anyone with any kind of business training...'
of those few I know who have gone through they include: an entrepreneur who ran two very successful small businesses, a financial director, a sales director and several BSc (Hons) in business and management, including my own.
wheelbarrow: we stand together.
I myself have no intention of applying to CTC since it’s obviously a money making scam and anyone with any kind of business training should be able to spot it from a few hundred miles and dismiss it at a glance.
As for their cadets, sorry 'geeks', getting a paid for jet type rating, 400 odd hours on type and being paid tax free in the process must be awful, warn them too.
CTC have created a clever niche in the market and make good money from it, but every one involved benefits, from the airlines to the cadets they recruit. It is the fact that everyone involved benefits that makes it so successful.
As for your comment, 'anyone with any kind of business training...'
of those few I know who have gone through they include: an entrepreneur who ran two very successful small businesses, a financial director, a sales director and several BSc (Hons) in business and management, including my own.
wheelbarrow: we stand together.
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Wheelbarrow,
Great...decent etc, means much the same in my book. People leaving the company only improves your seniority if they are replaced beneath you. Thomas Cook have taken on a few people this year for the first time this year since 2001 I understand. Your lack of a reasonable reply suggests to me that I was fairly accurate about your position.
As regards your pprune handle, why don't you get your own or is this a way of hiding behind others ?
Tron, I fully sympathise with the predicament of those looking for a job. You're right, all airlines recoup training costs in some way or another including British Airways. It is a shame but this is the way the market has become. If I had to train again, I would rather give my money to an airline rather than a few fat cats feathering their nests with no definitive job guarantee at the end of it. Thats my opinion, wheelbarrow has his as he went through their system and seems to enjoy ramming it down the throats of others who have not applied or who have been unfortunate not to pass their selection criteria.
Great...decent etc, means much the same in my book. People leaving the company only improves your seniority if they are replaced beneath you. Thomas Cook have taken on a few people this year for the first time this year since 2001 I understand. Your lack of a reasonable reply suggests to me that I was fairly accurate about your position.
As regards your pprune handle, why don't you get your own or is this a way of hiding behind others ?
Tron, I fully sympathise with the predicament of those looking for a job. You're right, all airlines recoup training costs in some way or another including British Airways. It is a shame but this is the way the market has become. If I had to train again, I would rather give my money to an airline rather than a few fat cats feathering their nests with no definitive job guarantee at the end of it. Thats my opinion, wheelbarrow has his as he went through their system and seems to enjoy ramming it down the throats of others who have not applied or who have been unfortunate not to pass their selection criteria.
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OrionMan
I am not going to open my position to you or anyone else.
The facts remain:
CTC helped me into a big jet at 26 years old.
I am secure enough and senior enough to be happy.
I am in a decent final salary pension.
I have got BOEING and AIRBUS on my licence.
I am still young.
And I did not pay CTC a penny for ANY of my training. See why I am so happy?!?
Why are you being such a stiff shirt, CTC hater?
Get a life.
Oh, and having read your posts..... on a variety of subjects, you seem to know it all too. An accusation you levelled at me...
I am not going to open my position to you or anyone else.
The facts remain:
CTC helped me into a big jet at 26 years old.
I am secure enough and senior enough to be happy.
I am in a decent final salary pension.
I have got BOEING and AIRBUS on my licence.
I am still young.
And I did not pay CTC a penny for ANY of my training. See why I am so happy?!?
Why are you being such a stiff shirt, CTC hater?
Get a life.
Oh, and having read your posts..... on a variety of subjects, you seem to know it all too. An accusation you levelled at me...