Global Aviation Solutions testing day
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Global Aviation Solutions testing day
Hi everyone,
can someone who has been through the GAS testing day please shine some light on what is tested (in detail if possible) and tell me about your experience with the company and what the training is like. I would just like to know a little more about the chances of getting through the selection before i fork out £850. It would also be good if anyone could shine some light on the possible airline partners.
many thanks
can someone who has been through the GAS testing day please shine some light on what is tested (in detail if possible) and tell me about your experience with the company and what the training is like. I would just like to know a little more about the chances of getting through the selection before i fork out £850. It would also be good if anyone could shine some light on the possible airline partners.
many thanks
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Like most of these "buy your way into the cockpit" concepts, they are most surely just looking your facial expression at the moment you lay down the £850,- check. If you manage to create the illusion that "there's plenty of it where this is coming from", you're in!
As about the "possible airline partners": most of those would be interested in your services whose financial state is such that they can't even afford to pay for their F/O's at all. (I'm sure that they would be really "magnificient" companies to work with other aspects as well !?)
Finally: Do you really think that those airlines will give you a permanent job some day (and pay you the salary) as long as they will be a long line of your fellow "trainees" willing to take your seat and work for free?
As about the "possible airline partners": most of those would be interested in your services whose financial state is such that they can't even afford to pay for their F/O's at all. (I'm sure that they would be really "magnificient" companies to work with other aspects as well !?)
Finally: Do you really think that those airlines will give you a permanent job some day (and pay you the salary) as long as they will be a long line of your fellow "trainees" willing to take your seat and work for free?
Last edited by Aviate378; 18th Nov 2003 at 23:07.
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hi guys,
Heardt heir main partner airline doesnt pay their fo anymore than............
Good luck to you.
M.85
Edited because of mis-information.
Heardt heir main partner airline doesnt pay their fo anymore than............
Good luck to you.
M.85
Edited because of mis-information.
Last edited by PPRuNe Pop; 19th Nov 2003 at 03:34.
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I have had to take action to remove to the sin bin a post that was seriously defamatory and has no place on PPRuNe.
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I hope that is clear.
Get good solid information. It IS available.
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Please remember. If you make accusations against a person or organisation you may be called to substantiate it by supplying your name and address so that PPRuNe never faces a libel action. And do not assume that a company is one thing or another - you may be wrong.
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Here we go again! 
Speedbird asks for some genuine feedback and what do we get?
Aviate 378, 126.9 and M.85, all with very well informed and vitriolic responses. I wonder why?
Go look at some of their profiles and the subject content of their previous posts on PPRuNe, and then go analyse the content of their specific posts. Very enlightening, if you have the time to do the research!
My preliminary examination would suggest the following;
Aviate378; 43 years of age, Captain on B757, not really happy, but 'scrounging around' in the 'wanabee section'? If true, why is he wasting his time here? Begs an answer!
126.9; he appears to be out of work, but with a sh1t load of experience, according to him 10,000 hours overall, 3,500 heavy jet, 1000 hrs heavy jet P1, yet currently flying an ATR 42/72 as a TRI? OMG, I've been looking for ATR TRE's for ages, even want one right now to take a position as Chief Training Captain, but did he apply?
M.85; he apears to be just a wanabee, looking for his first break, but with a big mouth to go with it!
All of you guys mentioned above would appear to either have a different agenda or rather you make yourselves out to be something you are clearly not! PPRuNE is a great place for you to hide and 'spout off' about all and sundry in this business that you know very little about. You will get found out!
Now. I have come away from a meeting with one of my customers today and I have an order to fill approximately 37 new pilot jobs for next summer season. That is fact. They will start as early as January. Some will be experienced type rated Captains, others will be direcct entry Captains that require a type rating, others will be experienced F/O's requiring a type rating, and the rest will be ab-initio level guys.
The most important fact is that you meet the criteria of my airline customer; I know what that is! You have to meet the right 'personality profile' and my advice to the 3 above is that you will not, from what you say here! I accept you may be differnt in real life. Theres a clue!
Second, you have to meet the ability level; we'll see about that and we will be the judge! Money does not guarantee you a place, inspite of what Aviate might say.
Third; will I name this customer on here? No way. Come back in 3 months time and call me a liar! By that time events will have overtaken themselves and this will be information in the public domain.
The first guy starts 01 December, many start early January, so go figure!
Now, to the posts made by the 3 muskateers;
Aviate? No one works for free
126.9 Robbery, thievery and skulldugery? Go talk to a lawyer. I won't sue you , but I will expose you as an idiout and a prat , at least!
M.85 and Aviate, best word to describe your allegations and 'hearsay' is 'bo**llocks'; don't listen to all you hear. In this instance, all you alledge you hear is absolute crap. I can only suggest you should go listen to more reliable people or go take a hearing test!
CH4
Speedbird asks for some genuine feedback and what do we get?
Aviate 378, 126.9 and M.85, all with very well informed and vitriolic responses. I wonder why?
Go look at some of their profiles and the subject content of their previous posts on PPRuNe, and then go analyse the content of their specific posts. Very enlightening, if you have the time to do the research!
My preliminary examination would suggest the following;
Aviate378; 43 years of age, Captain on B757, not really happy, but 'scrounging around' in the 'wanabee section'? If true, why is he wasting his time here? Begs an answer!
126.9; he appears to be out of work, but with a sh1t load of experience, according to him 10,000 hours overall, 3,500 heavy jet, 1000 hrs heavy jet P1, yet currently flying an ATR 42/72 as a TRI? OMG, I've been looking for ATR TRE's for ages, even want one right now to take a position as Chief Training Captain, but did he apply?
M.85; he apears to be just a wanabee, looking for his first break, but with a big mouth to go with it!
All of you guys mentioned above would appear to either have a different agenda or rather you make yourselves out to be something you are clearly not! PPRuNE is a great place for you to hide and 'spout off' about all and sundry in this business that you know very little about. You will get found out!
Now. I have come away from a meeting with one of my customers today and I have an order to fill approximately 37 new pilot jobs for next summer season. That is fact. They will start as early as January. Some will be experienced type rated Captains, others will be direcct entry Captains that require a type rating, others will be experienced F/O's requiring a type rating, and the rest will be ab-initio level guys.
The most important fact is that you meet the criteria of my airline customer; I know what that is! You have to meet the right 'personality profile' and my advice to the 3 above is that you will not, from what you say here! I accept you may be differnt in real life. Theres a clue!
Second, you have to meet the ability level; we'll see about that and we will be the judge! Money does not guarantee you a place, inspite of what Aviate might say.
Third; will I name this customer on here? No way. Come back in 3 months time and call me a liar! By that time events will have overtaken themselves and this will be information in the public domain.
The first guy starts 01 December, many start early January, so go figure!
Now, to the posts made by the 3 muskateers;
Aviate? No one works for free
126.9 Robbery, thievery and skulldugery? Go talk to a lawyer. I won't sue you , but I will expose you as an idiout and a prat , at least!
M.85 and Aviate, best word to describe your allegations and 'hearsay' is 'bo**llocks'; don't listen to all you hear. In this instance, all you alledge you hear is absolute crap. I can only suggest you should go listen to more reliable people or go take a hearing test!
CH4
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CH4,
A very much justified defence of your organisation from what you, or indeed anyone could or should describe as prats!
But back to the initial enquiry, are you able to advise Speedbird1 as to what to expect at your Global Assessment Day?
A very much justified defence of your organisation from what you, or indeed anyone could or should describe as prats!
But back to the initial enquiry, are you able to advise Speedbird1 as to what to expect at your Global Assessment Day?
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Please do not let your personal feelings about paying for type ratings stray into ill-considered posts about companies who quite legally and ethically offer such products to those who want them (and remember that their customers aren't only 200-hour wannabes!).
If you have intelligent argument which informs the debate and carries it forward, please feel free to contribute. If all you want to do is rant your oft-expressed prejudices, please refrain until you've cooled down, can argue coherently and can accept that other, equally intelligent, individuals can and do hold opposing points of view.
CH4, I admire your restraint!
Scroggs
If you have intelligent argument which informs the debate and carries it forward, please feel free to contribute. If all you want to do is rant your oft-expressed prejudices, please refrain until you've cooled down, can argue coherently and can accept that other, equally intelligent, individuals can and do hold opposing points of view.
CH4, I admire your restraint!
Scroggs
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Opsmaneurope, yes I will. Our website does need updating, and forgive me for that. Just not enough hours in the day at the moment to do everything that needs doing. I'm 'fighting fires' at the moment, trying to fill orders. That's what some of these idiots refuse to understand! I'll get called a CRM nightmare, but what the hell. Those pilots that work for me will testify in my defence. Funny old thing, they don't frequent here, they are too happy flying and earning money!
Forgive me if I sound harsh again; I've had a very full and stressful day, finding work for pilots!
Scroggs,
Thanks for the vote of support. I think you understand what we are doing as I had hoped most people here would too.
Our reputation is too important to us to damage by making false promises. I genuinely have many hundreds of pilots that have either worked for me or who still do. I look after them like my own.
If people really want testimony here, I could mobilise my guys to post here, but what the hell would that proove?
Those guys that bitch here are on to a looser, IMHO!
CH4
Speedbird, sorry
Give Martin Coleman a call tommorrow on 01293 863380; he will give you all the info you need.
CH4
Forgive me if I sound harsh again; I've had a very full and stressful day, finding work for pilots!
Scroggs,
Thanks for the vote of support. I think you understand what we are doing as I had hoped most people here would too.
Our reputation is too important to us to damage by making false promises. I genuinely have many hundreds of pilots that have either worked for me or who still do. I look after them like my own.
If people really want testimony here, I could mobilise my guys to post here, but what the hell would that proove?
Those guys that bitch here are on to a looser, IMHO!
CH4
Speedbird, sorry
Give Martin Coleman a call tommorrow on 01293 863380; he will give you all the info you need.
CH4
Last edited by CH4; 19th Nov 2003 at 05:10.
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CH4, you have now been calling me "one of the idiots, who is wasting his time" by 'scrounging around' in the 'wanabee section'. Thanks for a good laugh, but why shouldn't I? Is it somehow forbidden? Maybe I should ask you, why you are so nervous to see some of us more seasoned guys looking after the young ones?
Let me try to explain, once again, why I do not like the business you are doing:
1. It adds a considerable amount of cost to, what already is extremely expensive, initial pilot training. There will be more and more of those individuals who simply can not afford to be professional pilots anymore. This means that plenty of good talent will be waisted and I don't think this will serve any good for the whole airline industry on the long run.
2. With all that huge investment one must commit him/herself, there will be no, what so ever, commitment on your side! What is the whole purpose of this £850.- screening session, other than bringing the additional cash flow in your company, if it doesn't show if one is up to the standard you are looking for?
3. In spite of this huge investment for one's career, it does not reflect into his/her salary, contradictary, it seems that their salaries are far lower than before. By the way, why can't you come out with the real salaries one could expect if he/she REALLY is rewarded with a job. Your comment "no one works for free" is just not good enough!
4. Because of the fact above, people are not only losing money but time as well, it will take additional years to reach their ultimate career goal; a good, honest and fairly paid job. (like the one I'm blessed these days)
In spite of your tendency to take this debate into personal level by calling us names, making all kind of (false) assumptions of our individual crew management abilities and the general statements of my very own personal happiness (which went wrong again), I'm kindly asking us all to remember: It should be our subject we are arguing about, not ourself against each other. This requires of course, as we have seen, some degree of intelligence...
Let me try to explain, once again, why I do not like the business you are doing:
1. It adds a considerable amount of cost to, what already is extremely expensive, initial pilot training. There will be more and more of those individuals who simply can not afford to be professional pilots anymore. This means that plenty of good talent will be waisted and I don't think this will serve any good for the whole airline industry on the long run.
2. With all that huge investment one must commit him/herself, there will be no, what so ever, commitment on your side! What is the whole purpose of this £850.- screening session, other than bringing the additional cash flow in your company, if it doesn't show if one is up to the standard you are looking for?
3. In spite of this huge investment for one's career, it does not reflect into his/her salary, contradictary, it seems that their salaries are far lower than before. By the way, why can't you come out with the real salaries one could expect if he/she REALLY is rewarded with a job. Your comment "no one works for free" is just not good enough!
4. Because of the fact above, people are not only losing money but time as well, it will take additional years to reach their ultimate career goal; a good, honest and fairly paid job. (like the one I'm blessed these days)
In spite of your tendency to take this debate into personal level by calling us names, making all kind of (false) assumptions of our individual crew management abilities and the general statements of my very own personal happiness (which went wrong again), I'm kindly asking us all to remember: It should be our subject we are arguing about, not ourself against each other. This requires of course, as we have seen, some degree of intelligence...
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Aviate378,
Excuse me for interupting a personal grievance you obviously have here towards Global and/or CH4 but to quote your words:
(It should be our subject we are arguing about, not ourself against each other.)
Please may I take this opportunity, as an educated individual to point out to you that what 'we' are arguing about is, and I quote Speedbird1:
(can someone who has been through the GAS testing day please shine some light on what is tested (in detail if possible) and tell me about your experience with the company and what the training is like)
Would you care to explain to the readers of this board as to how your posts have been constructive in answering Speedbird's enquiry or is it more the case indeed that you have a personality disorder?
I'm of the opinion that Speedbird was looking for an answer from someone who has attended the assessment day rather than from someone who finds himself shouting his mouth off.
Would you care to clarify, in black and white, which airline partners you refer to in your previous post when you say:
(As about the "possible airline partners": most of those would be interested in your services whose financial state is such that they can't even afford to pay for their F/O's at all.)
I feel sure that many will be happy to learn, from your obvious wealth of knowledge, whom these partner airlines are?
I believe this is a case of, as often referred to as, 'Put up, or shut up'!
Yours Sincerely
Opsmaneurope
Excuse me for interupting a personal grievance you obviously have here towards Global and/or CH4 but to quote your words:
(It should be our subject we are arguing about, not ourself against each other.)
Please may I take this opportunity, as an educated individual to point out to you that what 'we' are arguing about is, and I quote Speedbird1:
(can someone who has been through the GAS testing day please shine some light on what is tested (in detail if possible) and tell me about your experience with the company and what the training is like)
Would you care to explain to the readers of this board as to how your posts have been constructive in answering Speedbird's enquiry or is it more the case indeed that you have a personality disorder?
I'm of the opinion that Speedbird was looking for an answer from someone who has attended the assessment day rather than from someone who finds himself shouting his mouth off.
Would you care to clarify, in black and white, which airline partners you refer to in your previous post when you say:
(As about the "possible airline partners": most of those would be interested in your services whose financial state is such that they can't even afford to pay for their F/O's at all.)
I feel sure that many will be happy to learn, from your obvious wealth of knowledge, whom these partner airlines are?
I believe this is a case of, as often referred to as, 'Put up, or shut up'!
Yours Sincerely
Opsmaneurope
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Dear Opsmaneurope
How I'm trying to be constructive here is: Maybe these companies should play with bit more open cards, like saying:
"Okay, you have now passed our aptitude assesment session, and we have found you to be a fairly skillfull and competent pilot with nice attitude towards your job. Your training will cost you this much (an exact sum) and If you do not screw up with your training we will be able to place you with (the name of an airline). Your salary will be (the amount)". If that would be the case, I would say that it would be ethically ok. (still wouldn't like it because most of those 4 items listed in my previous post)
But as long as I hear: "well, we are going to charge you for this and that, then you might improve your chances by paying for your initial operation experience, and after that there's MAYBE a job available somewhere". I feel sad because it will be just another way to take this profession of being a pilot down again. Why do I feel so? Because, do we earn our respect and dignity by working/studying hard and getting to the next step by being one of the best, or just paying our way there?
Being an airline pilot is and has been a fairly respectable job (in addition that it's so much fun), but is there even a single soul who wouldn't feel that slowly & surely we are losing it. Why? Because we have been willing to give it away... Every day, when we see another one willing to pay more for his/her training & job and working for less, we are digging our own hole. If this tendency continues, soon those bus & truck drivers will be paid more than the aviation professionals. This is something we should remember when making our decisions...
And opsmaneurope, with all respect, it's quite hard for me consider you as an educated individual because everyone with even a little amount of formal education realizes that the diagnose of "personality disorder" requires bit more of analyzing than just a letter...
Regards
Aviate378
ps. you may not like what I'm writing here, but there is no way you could give me an order to shut up!
How I'm trying to be constructive here is: Maybe these companies should play with bit more open cards, like saying:
"Okay, you have now passed our aptitude assesment session, and we have found you to be a fairly skillfull and competent pilot with nice attitude towards your job. Your training will cost you this much (an exact sum) and If you do not screw up with your training we will be able to place you with (the name of an airline). Your salary will be (the amount)". If that would be the case, I would say that it would be ethically ok. (still wouldn't like it because most of those 4 items listed in my previous post)
But as long as I hear: "well, we are going to charge you for this and that, then you might improve your chances by paying for your initial operation experience, and after that there's MAYBE a job available somewhere". I feel sad because it will be just another way to take this profession of being a pilot down again. Why do I feel so? Because, do we earn our respect and dignity by working/studying hard and getting to the next step by being one of the best, or just paying our way there?
Being an airline pilot is and has been a fairly respectable job (in addition that it's so much fun), but is there even a single soul who wouldn't feel that slowly & surely we are losing it. Why? Because we have been willing to give it away... Every day, when we see another one willing to pay more for his/her training & job and working for less, we are digging our own hole. If this tendency continues, soon those bus & truck drivers will be paid more than the aviation professionals. This is something we should remember when making our decisions...
And opsmaneurope, with all respect, it's quite hard for me consider you as an educated individual because everyone with even a little amount of formal education realizes that the diagnose of "personality disorder" requires bit more of analyzing than just a letter...
Regards
Aviate378
ps. you may not like what I'm writing here, but there is no way you could give me an order to shut up!
Last edited by Aviate378; 19th Nov 2003 at 15:29.
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Now let's just calm down for a while.
While it's admirable to request that the thread stays on track this has never in the history of the site prevented drift, general discussion or the seeking of allied information.
So let's keep this fair.
M.85 makes use of the forums other than these in a way that most wannabees don't. She or he isn't actually an entirely inexperienced pilot. A glance at posts made clearly show this - freight operations with metros and Beech 1900's are mentioned. Despite English not being a first language thoughtful questions are asked on other forums which extend well beyond the normal breathless gasping for first job stuff.
Aviate makes a series of valid points regarding changes to the trade extending time and financial outlay before achieving that first fully salaried permanent contract - something those running the types of courses under discussion didn't have to consider. Many of the questions and points are exactly the ones I'd raise if I didn't know CH4.
However, I suspect quite few eyebrows join mine quizically raised at the selfless devotion of 'opsmaneurope' to each and every mention of Global and Storm. Roughly 85% of 39 posts since September 2002. Luckily I'm not of a nasty suspicious disposition or I'd have to add a health warning to just about every post you make.
But enough of this carefree banter, CH4 has a successful business in an area where reputation amongst working pro pilots and engineers is the most vital asset. He does this to make a living - that nasty word profit. The same reason I got out of bed this morning so absolutely no problem there.
Commercial confidentially is regretably part of the stock in trade in the agency business. While it may be frustrating to get repeated questions touching on this he is working on developing a new niche in the market - a lot of learning is going on and great care should be taken in the tone of messages from both sides. No-one should have to put up with abuse but CH4 consider this, you're writing with the exact client knowledge in your head as you type. The readers do not. It seems weak, washy and even evasive compared to a competitor which publishes a definite client list. Please consider this carefully.
Finally, setting aside the confidentiality aspects, any thinking wannabee must be wondering how successful this sort of scheme will be. Taken to its logical conclusion will the initial successful candidates be washed out of that lovely flightdeck by each succeeding wave of paying guests? If it's such a good deal all round surely the airline will adopt it as SOP - it's been alive for a good while at Air Berlin. The concept is self defeating if there's nil chance of being kept on. Only a tiny percentage of pilots find the world of moving from contract to contract suits them.
CH4 - If folks know and accept you're in this to make a living and that it's a win-win deal for your client airline or airlines you've got to expect some pretty searching questions from those considering laying out money to support two other, appparently, far better funded parties.
You're suggesting a considerable amount of extra debt without the protections afforded by company law to the other partners and suppliers in this venture. You're creating a world which is no longer that of the traditional airline interview - the lowly supplicant approaching the giver of jobs and wages.
However, your interview fee alone engulfs the cost of them staying legal and current in the general job market. Thus, with the wannabee now providing a significant part of the financial package, they'd be utterly stupid if there wasn't an element of them interviewing you. Just like we've spent years training them to do at every other stage of the path to a professional licence.
Regards to all,
Rob Lloyd
While it's admirable to request that the thread stays on track this has never in the history of the site prevented drift, general discussion or the seeking of allied information.
So let's keep this fair.
M.85 makes use of the forums other than these in a way that most wannabees don't. She or he isn't actually an entirely inexperienced pilot. A glance at posts made clearly show this - freight operations with metros and Beech 1900's are mentioned. Despite English not being a first language thoughtful questions are asked on other forums which extend well beyond the normal breathless gasping for first job stuff.
Aviate makes a series of valid points regarding changes to the trade extending time and financial outlay before achieving that first fully salaried permanent contract - something those running the types of courses under discussion didn't have to consider. Many of the questions and points are exactly the ones I'd raise if I didn't know CH4.
However, I suspect quite few eyebrows join mine quizically raised at the selfless devotion of 'opsmaneurope' to each and every mention of Global and Storm. Roughly 85% of 39 posts since September 2002. Luckily I'm not of a nasty suspicious disposition or I'd have to add a health warning to just about every post you make.
But enough of this carefree banter, CH4 has a successful business in an area where reputation amongst working pro pilots and engineers is the most vital asset. He does this to make a living - that nasty word profit. The same reason I got out of bed this morning so absolutely no problem there.
Commercial confidentially is regretably part of the stock in trade in the agency business. While it may be frustrating to get repeated questions touching on this he is working on developing a new niche in the market - a lot of learning is going on and great care should be taken in the tone of messages from both sides. No-one should have to put up with abuse but CH4 consider this, you're writing with the exact client knowledge in your head as you type. The readers do not. It seems weak, washy and even evasive compared to a competitor which publishes a definite client list. Please consider this carefully.
Finally, setting aside the confidentiality aspects, any thinking wannabee must be wondering how successful this sort of scheme will be. Taken to its logical conclusion will the initial successful candidates be washed out of that lovely flightdeck by each succeeding wave of paying guests? If it's such a good deal all round surely the airline will adopt it as SOP - it's been alive for a good while at Air Berlin. The concept is self defeating if there's nil chance of being kept on. Only a tiny percentage of pilots find the world of moving from contract to contract suits them.
CH4 - If folks know and accept you're in this to make a living and that it's a win-win deal for your client airline or airlines you've got to expect some pretty searching questions from those considering laying out money to support two other, appparently, far better funded parties.
You're suggesting a considerable amount of extra debt without the protections afforded by company law to the other partners and suppliers in this venture. You're creating a world which is no longer that of the traditional airline interview - the lowly supplicant approaching the giver of jobs and wages.
However, your interview fee alone engulfs the cost of them staying legal and current in the general job market. Thus, with the wannabee now providing a significant part of the financial package, they'd be utterly stupid if there wasn't an element of them interviewing you. Just like we've spent years training them to do at every other stage of the path to a professional licence.
Regards to all,
Rob Lloyd
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 19th Nov 2003 at 09:15.
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CH4
After people have been reading both of our posts, let's get THOSE ones the chance to decide who's head is the one the cap fits
After people have been reading both of our posts, let's get THOSE ones the chance to decide who's head is the one the cap fits
Last edited by Aviate378; 19th Nov 2003 at 07:53.
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What a great idea! It is helping no-one, least of all the wannabes, to have bickering from professionals.
Bit of advice from a been there........it cost literally £000's less to train now than it did X years ago. Now it costs getting on for £20k to get a type rating. No airline can cater for that anymore - very very few anyway. Nowadays it is becoming almost essential that you have a type rating first. But which one? And for which airline? This is where a scheme for sim assessment comes into it's own, and if a company is undertaking that on behalf of airline or airlines it has to be be a good thing.
Bonding was a way of getting that £20k back. No-one liked that but the airline needs protection from the idiots who got on board only to leave the airline in the lurch - and £20k poorer! That is not right.
A wannabe, or anyone else for that matter, has to demonstrate that he is good enough to take on for training even though he is paying. £850 is not a lot find out if you can make the grade via a sim assessment, if your IR work is good enough, if you can scan correctly etc.,
The back biting here is an all out attack on the company, seemingly, from people who have a serious personal issue involved. My answer to that is you are way out of line. Decisions to spend one's own money is a personal matter. What the wannabes seek is advice not a lesson on how to air dirty washing or gripes.
They certainly do not want to participate in a contest with professionals slagging each other off or behaving badly. Your are certainly not helping anyone are you. As professionals we should NOT use personal grudges to attack a scheme that is ASSUMED to be a rip-off. I don't believe that it is. The company is actually very successful.
That said. Wannabes and those who are desperate to get a type rating here is my advice.
Do DUE DILIGENCE. Get all the information you need before parting with any money. Be sure you know what you are getting into by asking as many questions as you need to. If you are told that there is a guarantee of a job at the end of the training, which includes base and line checks, get it in writing. Then you need to know at what salary and what kind of contract. Again get it in writing. If the company has nothing to hide they will do it. If they will not do it - walk away.
Good luck.
Now, you professionals. Just take a step back and let those at the bottom of the ladder get on it if that is their want. Then, take your personal issues elsewhere and help not hinder. If you cannot help then don't say anything.
Bit of advice from a been there........it cost literally £000's less to train now than it did X years ago. Now it costs getting on for £20k to get a type rating. No airline can cater for that anymore - very very few anyway. Nowadays it is becoming almost essential that you have a type rating first. But which one? And for which airline? This is where a scheme for sim assessment comes into it's own, and if a company is undertaking that on behalf of airline or airlines it has to be be a good thing.
Bonding was a way of getting that £20k back. No-one liked that but the airline needs protection from the idiots who got on board only to leave the airline in the lurch - and £20k poorer! That is not right.
A wannabe, or anyone else for that matter, has to demonstrate that he is good enough to take on for training even though he is paying. £850 is not a lot find out if you can make the grade via a sim assessment, if your IR work is good enough, if you can scan correctly etc.,
The back biting here is an all out attack on the company, seemingly, from people who have a serious personal issue involved. My answer to that is you are way out of line. Decisions to spend one's own money is a personal matter. What the wannabes seek is advice not a lesson on how to air dirty washing or gripes.
They certainly do not want to participate in a contest with professionals slagging each other off or behaving badly. Your are certainly not helping anyone are you. As professionals we should NOT use personal grudges to attack a scheme that is ASSUMED to be a rip-off. I don't believe that it is. The company is actually very successful.
That said. Wannabes and those who are desperate to get a type rating here is my advice.
Do DUE DILIGENCE. Get all the information you need before parting with any money. Be sure you know what you are getting into by asking as many questions as you need to. If you are told that there is a guarantee of a job at the end of the training, which includes base and line checks, get it in writing. Then you need to know at what salary and what kind of contract. Again get it in writing. If the company has nothing to hide they will do it. If they will not do it - walk away.
Good luck.
Now, you professionals. Just take a step back and let those at the bottom of the ladder get on it if that is their want. Then, take your personal issues elsewhere and help not hinder. If you cannot help then don't say anything.
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Guys, let's just be calm. If GAS is as good as someone states here, then everybody will be happy. On the contrary, in a short while, we will have plenty of posts of disappointed fellow-pilot-customers who will describe in details where the rotten is.
Let's just give time to time, and if a pilot, after spending all those money, will be frustrated, I'm sure he will be more than willing to write some feebacks here ;-)
Let's just give time to time, and if a pilot, after spending all those money, will be frustrated, I'm sure he will be more than willing to write some feebacks here ;-)
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Dear CaptainFillosan
quote: "£850 is not a lot"
Well, maybe not to you with your nice captain's wallet, but for a young guy without a steady income it could mean a lot. Especially when we remember that only couple of years ago those airlines were willing to pick up the bill with no hesitation at all.
quote:" Do DUE DILIGENCE. Get all the information you need before parting with any money. Be sure you know what you are getting into by asking as many questions as you need to. If you are told that there is a guarantee of a job at the end of the training, which includes base and line checks, get it in writing. Then you need to know at what salary and what kind of contract. Again get it in writing. If the company has nothing to hide they will do it. If they will not do it - walk away."
That's an excellent comment and I just could not agree more with you ( I would just like to add: "at the end of SUCCESSFULL completion of the training"). But could you (and "all your friends") enlight me with just a small little detail: Why guys like me, who are asking those TRTOs to come out more openly with the relevant information, including true and real chances of landing on a permanent, reasonably paid job, always get treated like "criminals"? If we are not immediately willing to join this choir singing: "Ooh, this is such a great deal, and everyone should just go for it!", it gives you the right to say that we are no help at all, and we should keep our mouth shut???
quote: "£850 is not a lot"
Well, maybe not to you with your nice captain's wallet, but for a young guy without a steady income it could mean a lot. Especially when we remember that only couple of years ago those airlines were willing to pick up the bill with no hesitation at all.
quote:" Do DUE DILIGENCE. Get all the information you need before parting with any money. Be sure you know what you are getting into by asking as many questions as you need to. If you are told that there is a guarantee of a job at the end of the training, which includes base and line checks, get it in writing. Then you need to know at what salary and what kind of contract. Again get it in writing. If the company has nothing to hide they will do it. If they will not do it - walk away."
That's an excellent comment and I just could not agree more with you ( I would just like to add: "at the end of SUCCESSFULL completion of the training"). But could you (and "all your friends") enlight me with just a small little detail: Why guys like me, who are asking those TRTOs to come out more openly with the relevant information, including true and real chances of landing on a permanent, reasonably paid job, always get treated like "criminals"? If we are not immediately willing to join this choir singing: "Ooh, this is such a great deal, and everyone should just go for it!", it gives you the right to say that we are no help at all, and we should keep our mouth shut???
Last edited by Aviate378; 20th Nov 2003 at 01:32.
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I guess we've all had time to calm down a bit from the flurry of rapid postings that appeared last night. Some sage advice coming from some people here; especially Towers and Captain Fillosan. I've said in another post elsewhere, as you will recall Aviate, no-one is too old or wise enough to learn and receive feedback from others; the essence of good CRM., and that applies equally to me as anyone else here. I'm not always right and sometimes I do make mistakes. I only hope that as each year goes by, I make less than I did in the previous year.
I know Towers and have done for a long time. Personally, i don't agree with all he says, but I do know that what he says he believes and we may agree to disagree. If we do disagree then we will do so in a gentlemanly and polite manner. Even if I disagree with him I respect his opinion as I know him to be a genuine, honest and well meaning kind of guy. I would class him as one of my friends in life.
I would like to set a few things straight;
Aviate I did not call you an idiot. The one I called an idiot was 126.9. His post has since been removed by one of the moderators because it was clearly slanderous and defamatory, liable to action. Maybe he had just come back from the pub, who knows, but that kind of post is inadmissable. My comment to you, 'if the cap fits' was very much 'tongue in cheek' - I thought the LOL would have clearly demonstrated that, so I hope you didn't take offence as none was intended in that remark.
The information that most people are asking is now available, but not here, for all the very reasons answered before. It will be divulged to those that are seriously interested and who are in contact with us on a one to one basis. Those not interested might like to know, but sometimes a like to know is not a good enough reason. As the information is now out in the public domain I guess it will be just a question of time before it filters its way through to here.
I guess that we have probably covered all of the issues that may be relevant in the numerous postings on the various topics, so I now propose to gracefully retire from this arena, on the basis that repeats of the same old opinions and questions have already been covered to death elsewhere. I think there is enough information for new pilots to be referred to previous posts for answers on everything.
I will be monitoring topics for obvious reasons, to ensure the likes of 126.9 don't repeat their fauxpas again or to answer a new and genuine question that may not have been previously covered.
For what its worth; we actually made a loss on the last assessment day. Too many of the candidates were successful, so I have to foot the bill for that! LOL. Yes, I can laff about that, because I'm actually very pleased that so many were successful. Contrary to what some might deduce from what I say here, I do actually achieve a real satisfaction in being able to give someone that 'leg up' onto that ladder. You have to remember that I too have been through this painful process and I am eternally grateful to those that helped me when I most needed that help. I guess its called paying back some of that help to others.
In Aviates own words Peace and have a good one
Sorry, I forgot my chemical signature; CH4
I know Towers and have done for a long time. Personally, i don't agree with all he says, but I do know that what he says he believes and we may agree to disagree. If we do disagree then we will do so in a gentlemanly and polite manner. Even if I disagree with him I respect his opinion as I know him to be a genuine, honest and well meaning kind of guy. I would class him as one of my friends in life.
I would like to set a few things straight;
Aviate I did not call you an idiot. The one I called an idiot was 126.9. His post has since been removed by one of the moderators because it was clearly slanderous and defamatory, liable to action. Maybe he had just come back from the pub, who knows, but that kind of post is inadmissable. My comment to you, 'if the cap fits' was very much 'tongue in cheek' - I thought the LOL would have clearly demonstrated that, so I hope you didn't take offence as none was intended in that remark.
The information that most people are asking is now available, but not here, for all the very reasons answered before. It will be divulged to those that are seriously interested and who are in contact with us on a one to one basis. Those not interested might like to know, but sometimes a like to know is not a good enough reason. As the information is now out in the public domain I guess it will be just a question of time before it filters its way through to here.
I guess that we have probably covered all of the issues that may be relevant in the numerous postings on the various topics, so I now propose to gracefully retire from this arena, on the basis that repeats of the same old opinions and questions have already been covered to death elsewhere. I think there is enough information for new pilots to be referred to previous posts for answers on everything.
I will be monitoring topics for obvious reasons, to ensure the likes of 126.9 don't repeat their fauxpas again or to answer a new and genuine question that may not have been previously covered.
For what its worth; we actually made a loss on the last assessment day. Too many of the candidates were successful, so I have to foot the bill for that! LOL. Yes, I can laff about that, because I'm actually very pleased that so many were successful. Contrary to what some might deduce from what I say here, I do actually achieve a real satisfaction in being able to give someone that 'leg up' onto that ladder. You have to remember that I too have been through this painful process and I am eternally grateful to those that helped me when I most needed that help. I guess its called paying back some of that help to others.
In Aviates own words Peace and have a good one
Sorry, I forgot my chemical signature; CH4