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-   -   Cargolux details requested! (https://www.pprune.org/freight-dogs/205896-cargolux-details-requested.html)

711 17th Nov 2012 23:59

is this good or bad news?

Flightwatch 18th Nov 2012 07:06

On balance a good thing I would have thought.

The whole affair shows to me that the Qataris in general and AAB in particular are incapable of working in a democracy and their success relies on an autocratic management style and a servile, non-unionised workforce.

At least with the replacement shareholder there is a chance that there will be the possibility of social dialogue. Sink or swim, CV employees will have more input to their fate.

Standby for the rape and pillage of Oneworld next year, when QR becomes a full member next year.

Good luck guys, CV have survived worse moments than this before.

16down2togo 18th Nov 2012 07:51

Well said young man,
I think every change is better than to work with AAB. Good luck for one world!
And maybe the government has learned to sell only 33% next time!
But at least he didn't come through with his ridiculous demands and aggressive and arrogant style, not a way to start synergies between partners.
Let's hope for the best!
Take care and enjoy the GP in Austin!

edie 19th Nov 2012 23:48

Crisis at Cargolux could affect 747 freighter orders
Crisis at Cargolux could affect 747 freighter orders | Business & Technology | The Seattle Times

Crisis at Cargolux could affect 747 freighter orders

Qatar Airways is divesting its 35 percent stake in Cargolux, leaving the launch customer for Boeing’s 747-8 freighter jet to face an uncertain future.

By Dominic Gates

Boeing delivered a 747-8 jumbo freighter to Cargolux Airlines on Monday, even as a major crisis unfolded back at the cargo carrier’s headquarters in Luxembourg that could derail future deliveries.

Cargolux confirmed Monday that Qatar Airways will divest its 35 percent stake in the company just 11 months after completing the investment.

According to reports in Europe, Qatar Airways CEO Akbar Al Baker walked out of a stormy shareholders meeting after a half-hour Friday.

The Luxembourg government, which owns a majority share of Cargolux, that evening announced Qatar would shed its ownership stake. “Mr. Al Baker made a series of demands that were considered as being difficult to accept,” Cargolux spokeswoman Martine Scheuren told Bloomberg News.

The Boeing 747-8 delivered Monday, with a market value of about $185 million, was Cargolux’s sixth. The carrier has seven more on order.

The undelivered jets are worth $2.5 billion at list prices, though after standard discounts the real value, based on market data from aircraft-valuation firm Avitas, is about $1.3 billion.

The 747-8 has sold slowly. Boeing’s unfilled order book has less than 80 jets, or just over three years of production if all are delivered.

Boeing declined to discuss details of its customer’s business, but said it is working with Cargolux to deliver the remaining jets.

With the global cargo market depressed, Cargolux has been bleeding money. It lost $18 million in 2011, the third annual loss in four years.

The inflow of Qatari money was seen as a way to stabilize the airline.

However, the Qatari plans — which included cutting costs by closing a Luxembourg maintenance base and transferring some operations to Doha — didn’t sit well with the Cargolux unions or the government in Luxembourg, where Cargolux employs almost 1,200.

David Harris, senior editor of Cargo Facts, an industry newsletter produced by Seattle-based Air Cargo Management Group, said the government and Qatar Airways differed sharply over protecting local jobs.

“Luxembourg is a very union-friendly country and highly regulated,” Harris said. “There was a clash.”

Scott Hamilton, industry analyst with Leeham.net, said Qatar Airways was pressing Cargolux to open a hub in Doha and to use Qatar Airways’ 777 freighter jets instead of the larger 747-8s.

Qatar operates four 777 freighters, with four more pending delivery.

Hamilton said a source told him Qatar wanted Cargolux to cancel its remaining 747-8 orders.

Possible investors who might step in for Qatar’s stake in Cargolux are Russian carrier AirBridge Cargo and China’s HNA Group, owner of Hainan Airlines. HNA lost out to Qatar in bidding for the Cargolux stake last year.

Cargolux said Albert Wildgen, who was brought in as company chairman at the time of the Qatari investment, has resigned.

However, interim CEO Richard Forson, a former CFO at Qatar Airways, will stay on.

Citing the “many significant challenges facing Cargolux,” the carrier said in a statement that it now faces a “difficult phase of restructuring.”

Dominic Gates: (206) 464-2963 or [email protected]

REMAX11 25th Nov 2012 09:34

I am very interested to know hot they are going to fix it.

I wonder what is the new shareholders composition and how much is public money.

And to finish, anybody care to share their thoughts to what might appen to CARGOMED? I have just learned they just promoted a couple of first officers, after just one year. Well done!


16down2togo 4th Dec 2012 22:42

one of the biggest issues of AAB was to bring maintenance from this high cost environment to the Gulf.
One of the most regarded maintenance facilities is LH, located in the country with one of the highest labour costs. Funny enough this is where most of the VIP 747s are being outfitted and maintained!?!
CV maintenance is one of the best you can find on this planet, so maybe there is a way to build them up in respect to destroy them for some low cost pakistani substitute.
Just my few cents.....

sled dog 5th Dec 2012 09:32

16 totally agree with what you said. After all, a Ferrari owner goes not take his car to the local Dacia dealer for servicing. By the way, my first contact with CV was back in the CL44 days.......:eek: :ok:

16down2togo 7th Dec 2012 23:04

Mine wasn't,
but I have the pleasure to operate a/c under the supervision of cv maint for more than 14 years and I can tell you, you will not find a finer bunch of dedicated mechanics in this industry_ total support with not being supported by their superiors. those guys make your little pilots life a lot more easy and they are great fellows>
My high regards to every one of you!!! Anytime!

prsdnm 23rd Dec 2012 11:11

from ch-aviation.ch

22DEC2012: Luxembourg government takes full control of Cargolux Cargolux (CV, Luxembourg Findel International (LUX)) is now under majority control of the Luxembourg government again after it has acquired back the 35% stake in the scheduled cargo carrier that minority shareholder Qatar Airways (QR, Doha International (DOH)) wanted to sell following disagreements with the government over the carrier’s strategy. The government now directly and indirectly owns 56.6% of the cargo operator while the remaining 43.4% are owned by Luxair (LG, Luxembourg Findel International (LUX)) which is turn also is mainly owned by the government and other state owned entities.
so how does it look like now guys? any hope of future recruitment? happy christmas to everyone

sled dog 24th Dec 2012 14:21

Volga Dnepr said to be interested in taking over the ex Qatar shares.Lux government only holding shares until anothe buyer steps in according to the local media.

Jungleland 28th Jan 2013 11:17

What's the latest?
Some friends ask me what's news in the community out there; will CV start hiring soon?

There are some rumours that they will increase the fleet to 20+ a/c, that is a few more than today.

Let us know...

sled dog 28th Jan 2013 12:04

According to local media, following companies are showing interest in taking over the ex Qatar shares : Hainan Airlines, Nippon Cargo, Volga Dnepr, Cobelfret, Silkway, Centurion Air Cargo, and local based private equity firm Saphir Capital Partners. As a massive financial input is required to keep things going, i would think thought of fleet expansion is somewhat optimistic............

MD11F 29th Jan 2013 15:36

if a company needs cash urgently to keep things going, the last thing to think about is probaply "expanding" their fleet. My guess is, the company will have to shrink to survife, but, that´s just my 50 cents!

Aedius 1st Feb 2013 10:56

The new strategy will be revealed next Tuesday (5th Feb). Until that date, any rumor is just that, a rumor... and I highly doubt one of the possible scenarios will be an expansion of the fleet.

Aedius 6th Feb 2013 09:42

According to local newspapers, two strategies are possible:

1. Oliver Wymeer recommends to reduce fleet size an cut salaries of all employees to save the company.

2. The management's own strategic task force wants to increase the number of the aircrafts without increasing the number of employees (pilots).

For the moment option number 2 seems to be the more favorable even though no further details are given and of course in this case, you need to have a few courageous investors wanting to shell out lots of money (close to a billion in the next 1-2 years)

captain.weird 6th Feb 2013 11:40

When will they publish the strategy they're going to choose?

Tank2Engine 6th Feb 2013 12:24

According to the newspaper linked below, the findings will be presented on Wednesday and then, supposedly, on Thursday the board will decide although a definite decision is not very likely.

Wort.lu - Eine schwierige Woche für Cargolux

Joe le Taxi 6th Feb 2013 22:02

So its expansion to 18 a/c, and +60 pilots then? (according to PPJN)

Good to see, if true.

tripjet320 7th Feb 2013 06:51

Good day all !

Seriously considering Cargolux in the future, I am requesting the following informations updated from Cargolux Pilots please:

_ todays roster with how many days you can expect with your family per month.
_ how much you get pay per year at the beginning all included ?

Also, what about living few hundred Kms from LUX in Paris area for example ?
And, how is the "Tiredness" factor for crew now in 2013 ?

Thank you very much for your time !!


final06 7th Feb 2013 10:19


Thanks for considering CLX. ;)

A lot of your requested information can be found in this thread already.

Income depends on your family status and number of kids.
Expect 6-700 € per month more if you are married.
After 600 hrs on type you move to the SFO scale.

Per diem is not bad and some consider it part of their salary.

Days OFF are 3+1 and 6+1 per 28 day roster period, resp. 9+1.

CLX loves to hire people that are living close to LUX.
At least you should convince them that you intend to move close to LUX.
Many people commute in a range from 200 to 700 km by car, some by plane.

Tiredness depends on the actual trip you are doing. There are busy ones and not so busy ones with more or less night duties and with standard or augmented crew.

For example:





This is just about layovers (block to block).
The above samples do not reflect if you are operating and/or positioning or doing a commercial positioning.

In my opinion flying for CLX is less tiring than flying shorthaul nowadays.
But this might not be true for everyone.

Good luck!

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