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SX737 11th Jan 2006 16:31

Cargolux details requested!
 
Good day to ALL!
Would like to inquire on information about Cargolux:
-Roster/ scheduling of trips-destinations
-days off per month
-annual leave days
-wages for FOs
-years/experience needed for command
-process of recruitment
-general working environment!!!
THANKS!

NoRulesInLux 12th Jan 2006 14:57

Re: Cargolux details requested!
 
Rostering, Trips:
Worldwide operations.Expect a roster, that will work you to the limits.
Too many days away from home, because management thinks you are only productive, when you sit around in hotels. Being with your family is considered ineffective use of human resources.

Off-days:
Nine per 28 day roster. 6 fixed and in a row. 3 floating, and can be assigned for work by the company.They then are granted in a later roster, or paid for, as you wish..
Union claims no rest into OFF-days, but company resists, leading to a work-to-rule at the moment.

Annual leave 42 days.

Wages for FOīs:
Money taken home is generally ok, due to low socialinsurance contributions and friendly tax-regime in LUX.
Family income depends on family status. Married people take an extra 500 Euros per paycheck.First child ~120 extra ,and any further child 75 Euros, due to tax reduction.
Luxemburg has a so called index on salaries, and allowances paid by the state. Whenever inflation makes a 2,5% step, you get this as a payrise, by law.
Last indexes given in Oct.2004 and again in Oct.2005 due to the price of oil.

Family allowance of ~185 for one child, ~440 for two, 768 for three children. However, donīt overdo it with the number of children, because you will not be around home too much, to see them and assist your partner in their upbringing.
If your wife gives birth, there are more allowances from the state.

Donīt worry about qualification for command, by the time you get there, you will be qualified.I think present upgrades joined around 1998/99
After fast expansion, that has given some great career opportunities, things have slowed down.
If you join now, you will have around 170 FOīs ahead of you, total number of pilots around 350 and rising.
Pace seems to pick up again, and the outlook is positive, with the 747-8 being expected from 2009 and some business for Boeing with the LCF.
Rumours about more airplanes before 2009.
Recruitment is ongoing. Selection by interview, and psychometrical testing carried out in Germany, at an institute , run by the company doctor.
For details check on www.cargolux.com.

The working environment is friendly, relaxed yet very professional.
Training and sims are professional and fair.

At this time , a work-to-rule is in progress. The main reason is, the pilot community feels rostering and rest has a reached a level, that is not bearable in the long run. Management is expecting to squeeze even more out of us.
If the present conditions deteriorate further, joining is not a good idea, because you will not be able to stand this for the length of a career.

The problem of fatigue has been recognized by the company, and they say they want to do something about it, through a project with the participation of experts on the matter. However, seeing the unwillingness of
management to talk in the present negotiations, I am cautious. This year will be decisive for the future of working conditions in Cargolux.

SX737 13th Jan 2006 09:58

Re: Cargolux details requested!
 
Thank you so much for your very informative reply NoRulesInLux!
I have one last question!
Please state the average monthly FO salary.
Thanks again!:ok:

luxfreight 13th Jan 2006 19:20

Re: Cargolux details requested!
 
Depending how you're rostered but I believe that a FO can can normally count on earning just under €5000 plus the per diem. There is a 13th cheque and profit share as well.

mtnflyer 14th Jan 2006 03:53

Re: Cargolux details requested!
 
thanks for the great reply.are there many commuters at cv,for instance the uk,ireland,and is it possible with the roster?

nose door 15th Jan 2006 10:45

Re: Cargolux details requested!
 
yeh, there's a few... but if you commute from the UK, u might get away from "big brother" but you'll have "Uncle Gordon, and his band of merry men," on your back for his due's....and believe me they don't give up!!!!

mtnflyer 15th Jan 2006 21:40

Re: Cargolux details requested!
 
thanks for the reply.sorry to show my ignorance,but as i haven't lived in the eu in years,i presume you are talking about the internal revenue people..?does the fact that you are away a lot of the year not give you relief,or do you have to pay taxes in both lux and the uk?
do you work for cv?
mtnflyer

SX737 17th Jan 2006 12:54

Living in Lux.
 
Does anyone know if Cargolux sponsors living expenses, especially if you choose to commute(ex. hotel room or small apartment)? Is there somekind of help for accommodation? How is social life in Luxemburg?

CR2 17th Jan 2006 13:23

737azf: To the first part, I believe not. Commuting is your affair, not the company's. You'd get company rates at hotels at best. People who commute before flying, then complain of fatigue are frowned upon.

Social life is so-so. If you're coming from a big city, then there is the equivalent of sod-all. Of course you'll find/be shown what there is.

SX737 17th Jan 2006 20:56

Living in Lux.
 
Thanks CR2!
If someone chooses to rent a small but nice apartment what would be the monthly cost (rent+utilities). Would Cargolux be willing to sponsor all or some of those expenses?

tom de luxe 17th Jan 2006 21:36


Originally Posted by 737zaf
Thanks CR2!
If someone chooses to rent a small but nice apartment what would be the monthly cost (rent+utilities). Would Cargolux be willing to sponsor all or some of those expenses?

#1: For "small but nice" read 2 bedrooms? Nice apartment or nice area as well? In LUX-Ville proper, or would Germany or France with around 30 mins commute (by car) be fine (living in Belgium near LUX, i.e. aound the city of Arlon is, by definition, not nice, and thus out of the question)? You see, the place you're looking at could cost anything from EUR 2000 plus /month in LUX-Ville to EUR 500/month on the German side of River Moselle (or possibly less in the Hinterland).
#2: As has been said before, your living expenses are usually just that - yours. You can always ask, mind you...

Bird flu 17th Jan 2006 21:40

:hmm: CV pay for living expensesfor a "nice app"in lux...
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha........
oh dear...hahahahahahahahahaha, best u try cathay.....haven't had such a good laugh for a long time......

GreekPilot747 18th Jan 2006 10:32

Many airlines mainly in the Far East, and the Middle East do have free housing, education, or allowances for that.
However such a thing is not foreseen at Cargolux.
Some contract-captains I think have hotel accomodation included in their deal.
This is not available for employees.
I think tom de luxe is about right with his numbers. Housing in Luxemburg is very very expensive.
Living across the border is an option though. Since most of our flying takes place around the globe, the number of drives to the airport is quite limited, so a 30 minutes drive is absolutely acceptable. You are looking at 2 to 3 departures from Luxemburg within a roster.
If you share a place in Germany with another pilot, you may bring the cost further down, and for most of the days, you will have the place for yourself, since the other guy might well be flying.
For you guys that are considering becoming expats, the deal in Luxemburg is different from the asian carriers. You do not have the housing and school allowances.
What you have though is a european retirement system, that will consider insured times from other EU countries. When you retire, you will still have health insurance as a retiree. For someone coming back from overseas, that might not be the case, and then you start spending a lot of the money you made, to get insurance.
Just to repeat what CR2 has written above:
Commuting is your choice and your responsibility. You should have a place to rest before the flights, and you are supposed to show up well rested for a flight by law.
Showing up tired, for a long flight with augmented crew, and expecting to get the first rest, will not get you too many friends in the long run.

on the run 18th Jan 2006 18:58

I started with CV in 2005. :)
I have all respect for what the older guys say about working conditions etc. They should know. They have been around longer.
But for me it's a dreamjob. One has to remember where you come from. Guess that's very individual. I flew five years in a European airline, shorthaul, and that almost killed me. With CV I have more days off, much more vacation, and it's more relaxed, never any stress, and you 'normally' get at least one day at destination, sometimes longer, up to a week. I was used to four sectors/day with stress stress stress and slots, and busy airports in Europe, and always minimum rest at destinations.
Just for your info. One job could be very different for different persons.
Regards,
on the run with pink floyd

SX737 18th Jan 2006 22:04

Living in Lux.
 
Thanks GreekPilot747 and on the run for all the posted info!
I probably do have a bit to go till I get the hours to apply but I am gathering all available info that I can.

burgerking 19th Jan 2006 12:26


Originally Posted by on the run
I started with CV in 2005. :)
I have all respect for what the older guys say about working conditions etc. They should know. They have been around longer.
But for me it's a dreamjob. One has to remember where you come from. Guess that's very individual. I flew five years in a European airline, shorthaul, and that almost killed me. With CV I have more days off, much more vacation, and it's more relaxed, never any stress, and you 'normally' get at least one day at destination, sometimes longer, up to a week. I was used to four sectors/day with stress stress stress and slots, and busy airports in Europe, and always minimum rest at destinations.
Just for your info. One job could be very different for different persons.
Regards,
on the run with pink floyd

@ on the run: are you sure that you are employed as a pilot with CV? ;-)
I wish I could say the same after about 7 years with CV. What I am seeing lately is a lot of back to back trips, meaning a long trip with often minimum rest at destinations then one! day off before you go on another letīs say 9 day trip. No regards for time zone changes health etc. That is a lot of stress and a burden on your social life as well. Even living in LUX doesnīt help with rosters like that. Granted, it was better until about 2 years ago before some changes were made to the management structures in the relevant dept.
btw.
Productivity (block hours in our job) has not changed much - just less days at home to satisfy some office folks dislike of pilots.
If it was so great why would far more than 90% have approved the zero tolerance action in effect right now?

on the run 19th Jan 2006 12:46


Originally Posted by burgerking
@ on the run: are you sure that you are employed as a pilot with CV? ;-)
I wish I could say the same after about 7 years with CV. What I am seeing lately is a lot of back to back trips, meaning a long trip with often minimum rest at destinations then one! day off before you go on another letīs say 9 day trip. No regards for time zone changes health etc. That is a lot of stress and a burden on your social life as well. Even living in LUX doesnīt help with rosters like that. Granted, it was better until about 2 years ago before some changes were made to the management structures in the relevant dept.
btw.
Productivity (block hours in our job) has not changed much - just less days at home to satisfy some office folks dislike of pilots.
If it was so great why would far more than 90% have approved the zero tolerance action in effect right now?

Burgerking,
Again I would like to say 'I have all respect for what the older guys say about working conditions etc. They should know. They have been around longer.'
And I know via frieds how the roster was more than two years ago. It's difficult times for the company, a lot of things have to be sorted out. Yes, 90% speaks for itself.
But what I am also saying, which was my point, is that one has to remember where you come from. For me this job is so much better from my previous. But that is very individual. For me that's a fact, for others not.

burgerking 19th Jan 2006 14:25

O.K. I see your point. Was your former airline a lowcoster like ryanair or similar?

regards, burgerking

on the run 19th Jan 2006 14:39

Yepp, something similar.
Best regards!

PrettyBoy 19th Jan 2006 15:30

On the run,

I'm glad you are happy in Cargolux! Having just started I'm also sure that you are still excited about flying big shiny 747's to exotic destinations. Be careful though, just because you used to work for slave drivers before doesn't mean that you should let this job get diluted as your previous colleagues did. We are trying to make sure that this remains a good job for years to come, without hurting the financial well being of the company. As it is now it has become devastating for the family/social aspects of our lives and some duties even close to being dangerous.

Don't get me wrong, this is still one of the best companies to work for. All we have to do is to tweak it here and there to make it great! Support this measure and you will benefit for years to come.

Buster Hyman 19th Jan 2006 22:08

I could think of better places than AKL to have 5 days off though...:ugh:

CR2 19th Jan 2006 23:39

Hey Buster, wots wrong with AKL? They have sheep...
Ps, FNG in Mel seems alright. Bigger than you too :)

Spenda 20th Jan 2006 10:16

Is it possible to deadhead on company aircraft? I ask because I am wondering if I could commute from YYC. Any 5 day layovers in YYC?

acmi48 25th Jan 2006 04:47

ref cv x on a happy note some of the most outspoken opponents on the companies work rest and play policy have, and have had ,20 plus years service with the airline. while there shud be no comparison between the 1970's and today due to progress ,things have moved along quite nicely for all.

Buster Hyman 25th Jan 2006 04:53

Don't worry Ratty, I'm sure there's plenty of sheep for you...:rolleyes:

FNG??:confused:

BTW...Did you ever send that "package"??:confused:

CR2 25th Jan 2006 15:08

New guy doing your old job with us.
Nope, didn't manage that. Sorry mate.

Buster Hyman 25th Jan 2006 20:03

No worries Ratty...I thought our "mate" might have been playing "funny buggers"!;)

Well, I give him 12 months unless the afore mentioned mate moves on first!:(

sonnyd 6th Feb 2006 05:19

jumpseating?
 
Does Cargolux allow jumpseating by pilots of US carriers?

Buster Hyman 6th Feb 2006 05:29

Ratty. I see they're advertising again! Your new bloke moved on already huh?:p

luxfreight 6th Feb 2006 06:32

jumpseating
 
No jumpseating to anybody not affiliated to Cargolux. Which is a bit of a bind when it comes to us flight deck needing a ride with somebody else.:\

superpilut 8th Feb 2006 07:36

...so will cv take in some of the ex AAI guys, since there's still a need and there's 74 rated pilots becoming available? It would suck if they'd stop hiring non-type rated guys.. Rat, what can you tell all those hoping to enter without a rating?
Cheers.

CR2 8th Feb 2006 08:26

Not my balliwack superpilot; CV can issue ratings, more than that am unsure on. Have a look on the webpage, there is some blurb about it.

Flightwatch 23rd Feb 2006 15:37

Latest news on Cargolux recruitment is that they are urgently requiring more pilots.
In the unlikely event that there are any B744 type-rated F/O's out there looking for a job the start date is yesterday. JAR licence required for permenant employment but FAA etc. licences acceptable for contract work, just a full initial JAR medical to be completed.
For permenant employment details on the Cargolux website and for Contractors direct with the Chief Pilots office.
Any takers?:ok:

okap 22nd Mar 2006 21:36

hiring is still ongoing- good chance for one more aircraft in July 2006, and one in 07 ,one in 08 guaranteed. In 2009 th -8s will follow, in other words, yes hiring will continue, the strict minimum hrs as per ops manual is 15oo hrs !!!

good luck guys, but be aware thst the current work environment is not the best.

rgds

SX737 9th Apr 2006 20:18

Cargolux reqruitment.
 
I have about 1500 hours on the B737-300/400 and about 1800TT. Cargoloux is requesting 2500TT and I see on the interpersonal site that the positions for FOs are only 10 now.
Do I need to wait for the 2500 hour limit or will they accept my application as such????? Will recruitment really continue??? Does having a university degree make a difference?

luxfreight 10th Apr 2006 06:19

737azf, I wouldn't give up just yet. If you live close to Luxembourg or are prepared to move to Lux - you may stand an outside chance. From what I heard I heard lately, recruitment is on going and will be for some time. If your really commited to getting into Cargolux - show the personnel department how commited you are, keep applications arriving on their door step. Good luck, it is well worth the effort.

klink 11th Apr 2006 08:07


Originally Posted by CommitedToStay
:uhoh:
And: No, these guys are not flying for LUXAIR (which ocassionally seems to have a negative impact on the outcome of applications sometimes).
Cheers,
CTS

Ehm... occasionally it doesn't. I think that during the last 30 years 6 were "allowed" to swap.

Which makes me think; what would you prefer FO 737 with LG or FO with CV?
Currently hardly any promotions within LG, so stuck on that seat for at least another 8 years.:{ Salaries will be frozen for the coming years.:{ "Promotion" thereafter to whatever RJ or TP they will have.:uhoh: Then fly 4 legs a day, 20 days a month, with anything but optimized turnarounds; so lots of duty. (Even FR schedues look better) :(
..But you're at home in your own bed every night.

Or CV, where you'll make a little more money, a brighter looking future, more interesting destinations, but where you're on the road a lot (if not the whole time..):ooh:

luxfreight 12th Apr 2006 07:44

to CTS
 
Let me dump some water on your pessimism and show you some realism behind my statement.

I have just flown with a colleage of ours who put his first application into Cargolux in 1988. He finally got into cargolux in 2002 after putting 3 to 4 applications in every year.He now lives in Luxembourg and you can't get the smile off his face (and he didn't come from a low-cost to get here). By the way I was LOT luckier I only had to apply once.

In +/- 2weeks time we will receive and extra 2 cheques in our pay envelope whilst a lot of other airlines including Luxair are struggling to keep their heads above the water. If you work out exactly how much you worked in the last year, you'll find out it was about 6 months all in.If you worked more than that you where selling something and you have yourself to blame.Not bad really and I accept that the rostering can be a little off colour sometimes - but hey - you got to take the rough with the smooth, we both have to work for our money sometimes.

I suggest that your mates are not making it into Cargolux because - interpersonal (who ever he is)- sees in them what he missed in you i.e. the whining trait that is dragging the our easy going company attitude into a pit.

I challenge you to find another job in Europe with the conditions and pay that you have here at Cargolux. When you do- go - you will find out that it is never to late.

LF

Jungleland 12th Apr 2006 08:03

Luxair goes Cargolux?
 
Heard on the street that Luxair will lay off quite a few pilots, and that Luxair and Cargolux would 'make a deal' to take over 30 of them into CV ops. Is that somewhat true?

Also heard by someone calling interpersonal that they are very busy this year, and will have interviews every week all year, but as well see no end of it. Looks good. But do Luxair pilots have to go through them and IBF, or use the fast lane?

/jungleland

klink 12th Apr 2006 08:11

@ LF
Hey, I already thought you meant me!:}
But I don't think CTS meant it that bad, or is he always like this?

Jungle: nobody will be laid off.
Early retirements, voluntary moving and parttime should do the trick.
Nothing confirmed re LG-CV deal, although some are trying very, very hard.


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