Polar Arbitration III(a)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear EjetCa:
I support your notion to debate and discuss the issue like adults 100%.
Indeed the long-term ramification of our action today are critical for our future. Hence, the Union leadership from both sides needs to engage into meaningful dialog with each other and not against each other.
Unifying, the groups is not a matter of one seniority but rather a lengthy process after the single CAB is in place and may take years. But the process will never start unless we have one seniority list and one CBA. Otherwise operating two independent pilot groups with two CBAs under one umbrella organization will make contract negotiations for either party more difficult.
Isn't it true that after the Atlas/Polar transaction, either side accuses the other of undermining their respective CBA negotiations. Atlas in 00/01 and Polar in 05.
Followed by aircraft transfer and furloughs, in both directions. EjetCa correct me, this will not happen at RAH or Mesa under their one seniority and one CBA.
On the other hand, I do not believe you will operate a Polar flight and tomorrow fly an Atlas airplane nor will we ever have these groups sing together cumbyja. But the childishness needs to stop and we need to look forward. Matter of fact, you never have a 100% unified love all pilot group.
For 2008, I can only hope we can engage into a meaningful exchange of ideas on this board. Let's discuss concerns, possibilities, real opportunities and real threads ( no imaginary ).
I support your notion to debate and discuss the issue like adults 100%.
Indeed the long-term ramification of our action today are critical for our future. Hence, the Union leadership from both sides needs to engage into meaningful dialog with each other and not against each other.
Unifying, the groups is not a matter of one seniority but rather a lengthy process after the single CAB is in place and may take years. But the process will never start unless we have one seniority list and one CBA. Otherwise operating two independent pilot groups with two CBAs under one umbrella organization will make contract negotiations for either party more difficult.
Isn't it true that after the Atlas/Polar transaction, either side accuses the other of undermining their respective CBA negotiations. Atlas in 00/01 and Polar in 05.
Followed by aircraft transfer and furloughs, in both directions. EjetCa correct me, this will not happen at RAH or Mesa under their one seniority and one CBA.
On the other hand, I do not believe you will operate a Polar flight and tomorrow fly an Atlas airplane nor will we ever have these groups sing together cumbyja. But the childishness needs to stop and we need to look forward. Matter of fact, you never have a 100% unified love all pilot group.
For 2008, I can only hope we can engage into a meaningful exchange of ideas on this board. Let's discuss concerns, possibilities, real opportunities and real threads ( no imaginary ).
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: KLAX
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EJetCA -
"Even thought the RAH group is under one contract, that does not mean a unified pilot group . . .There are pilots from each company that won't speak. . . . The problems that exist now (Atlas/ Polar) would not be any different than if a merger were to come to pass. . . and - Don't forget the institutional investors don't give a rat's ass about "operational integrity".
V1andgo -
"Unifying, the groups is not a matter of one seniority but rather a lengthy process after the single CAB is in place and may take years."
These are all very pertinent and very astute comments. Human nature, being what it is, will not make the Atlas/Polar situation promising after a merger. A few pilot generations must pass after unification. History dictates so - ie Northwest/Republic.
We are our own worst enemy!
"Even thought the RAH group is under one contract, that does not mean a unified pilot group . . .There are pilots from each company that won't speak. . . . The problems that exist now (Atlas/ Polar) would not be any different than if a merger were to come to pass. . . and - Don't forget the institutional investors don't give a rat's ass about "operational integrity".
V1andgo -
"Unifying, the groups is not a matter of one seniority but rather a lengthy process after the single CAB is in place and may take years."
These are all very pertinent and very astute comments. Human nature, being what it is, will not make the Atlas/Polar situation promising after a merger. A few pilot generations must pass after unification. History dictates so - ie Northwest/Republic.
We are our own worst enemy!
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NM
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe even ALPA President Captain Prater stated that the final outcome of the combined carriers as planned would be like the Air Micronesia (?) - Continental scenario. Two certificates and one pilot group. Which was fine with Polar up until the "follow the flying" didn't happen for Polar. Then all of a sudden there was "no merger" from the Polar camp.
Yes, it will take a thinning of the ranks over time to get rid of the animosity.
The current arbitration being discussed is a further example of "getting mine" council mentality, forgetting those that originally lost jobs to the others benefit in the beginning.
Yes, it will take a thinning of the ranks over time to get rid of the animosity.
The current arbitration being discussed is a further example of "getting mine" council mentality, forgetting those that originally lost jobs to the others benefit in the beginning.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: California
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm Wondering
Can’t Atlas management just decide to get rid of polar?
I don’t mean sell it or declaring bankruptcy. I’m wondering if management can just say that they are stopping all polar Air Inc. operations.
I don’t know of any law that requires a company to stay in business if that business is losing money. Wouldn’t it be a wise business decision to terminate a losing proposition before being forced to declaring bankruptcy?
That way, Atlas Air World Wide can use those freed up airplanes for money making customers at their other operations.
I think the stock holders would like that.
?
Can’t Atlas management just decide to get rid of polar?
I don’t mean sell it or declaring bankruptcy. I’m wondering if management can just say that they are stopping all polar Air Inc. operations.
I don’t know of any law that requires a company to stay in business if that business is losing money. Wouldn’t it be a wise business decision to terminate a losing proposition before being forced to declaring bankruptcy?
That way, Atlas Air World Wide can use those freed up airplanes for money making customers at their other operations.
I think the stock holders would like that.
?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ahhh. there's the rub. AAWH says Polar is losing money and a lot of people buy into it; hook, line, and sinker, particularly some of the Atlas people. The problem is the books are closed. DHL wouldn't buy into a company just for the routes because if it was losing money, the routes wouldn't matter.
There is something going on and the managemnt is keeping it close to their greedy little vests. But what ever it is it is the crews that will take it in the shorts.
There is something going on and the managemnt is keeping it close to their greedy little vests. But what ever it is it is the crews that will take it in the shorts.
Last edited by trashhauler; 2nd Jan 2008 at 15:05. Reason: wording
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This whole "making money" and "losing money" argument is tiring. I'll bet the only thing that can be proven is AAWH is making or losing money. AAWH hires accountants and tax lawyers to show what they want to show. Through special "one-time" writeoffs or credits, and many, many other devices, AAWH can show each subsidiary as "making" or "losing" money. I'll bet the end of the 1Q they'll show a 1-time writeoff for the 3 Classics being parked, and claim 5Y is posting a loss.
The real deal will begin when foreign ownership is allowed and DHL buys the remaining 51% of PO.
My $.02
The real deal will begin when foreign ownership is allowed and DHL buys the remaining 51% of PO.
My $.02
Join Date: May 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"The real deal will begin when foreign ownership is allowed and DHL buys the remaining 51% of PO."
DHL don't have 49% of PO.
They have 49% of Polar Air Worldwide Holdings.
PAWW have no airplanes, no aircrew and no problems.
When Criss Angel plays the shell game, he doesn't do it as well
as AAWH Management can, but the result is the same and it's a
MINDFREAK!
DHL don't have 49% of PO.
They have 49% of Polar Air Worldwide Holdings.
PAWW have no airplanes, no aircrew and no problems.
When Criss Angel plays the shell game, he doesn't do it as well
as AAWH Management can, but the result is the same and it's a
MINDFREAK!
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PAWW is the successor to PO, no? So the PO CBA and operation belong to PAWW.....At least that's the way AAWH MGT explains it.....
Last edited by EJetCA; 5th Jan 2008 at 01:27. Reason: clarity
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: KLAX
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, for the short term they do explain it that way , however mngmt simultaneously professes that the PO CBA and operation is intended to be merged.
Perhaps mngmnt placed the cart before the horse.
Perhaps mngmnt placed the cart before the horse.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
L-38,
The funny thing is it will not be merged operationally. They do have a "future provision" in the DHL agreement to provide the "crews". Right now 5Y only provides Maintenance and Insurance, Aircraft and Crews are provided by PO(the agreement is, I believe the first link.). They anticiapte providing crews when the SCBA is effective. Making it, in their words, a CMI agreement. Must be where they get the "ACMI-like" phrase from they constantly spout.
At RAH, each airline still has its own operational control facility.
The only merger that can be proposed under the current set-up (keeping 5Y and PO certificates to satisfy DHL), will be administrative, seniority list and CBA. Each certificate will STILL be required to have all required Part 119 positions. So, PO will still have A DO, DOM, CP, dispatchers, schedulers, certain MX positions, it's own ID's and airplanes that say "Operated by Polar Air Cargo" somewhere by the door.
Please don't take my word for it, do your own research, as I can be as wrong as can be. Look up Part 119 and required personnel, as well as requirements for maintaining operational control. Bear in mind that maintaining 2 certificates will have to meet required staffing. Certain things can, and will be combined, but those functions are already combined. Right now, sans pilots bidding back and forth, the company is as integrated as it will be, unless they merge certificates.
A definition of PACWW's relationship to PO. From the 30 JUN 07 10Q "Holdings is the parent company of two principal operating subsidiaries, Atlas Air, Inc. (“Atlas”), which is wholly owned, and Polar Air Cargo Worldwide, Inc. (“Polar”), of which Holdings has a 51% economic interest and 75% voting interest as of June 28, 2007. On June 28, 2007, Polar issued shares representing a 49% economic interest and a 25% voting interest to DHL Network Operations (USA), Inc. (“DHL”), a subsidiary of Deutsche Post AG (“DP”), (see Note 10 for additional discussion of the transaction). Prior to that date, Polar was wholly owned by Holdings and was the parent company of Polar Air Cargo, Inc. (“Polar LLC”). Holdings, Atlas, Polar and Polar LLC are referred to collectively as the “Company”. The Company provides air cargo and related services throughout the world, serving Asia, Australia, the Middle East, Africa, Europe, South America and the United States through: (i) contractual lease arrangements in which the Company provides the aircraft, crew, maintenance and insurance (“ACMI”); (ii) airport-to-airport scheduled air cargo service (“Scheduled Service”); (iii) military charter (“AMC Charter”); and (iv) seasonal, commercial and ad-hoc charter services (“Commercial Charter”). The Company operates only Boeing 747 freighter aircraft. "
Some addtional reading: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...085exv10w3.htm
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...085exv10w1.htm
The funny thing is it will not be merged operationally. They do have a "future provision" in the DHL agreement to provide the "crews". Right now 5Y only provides Maintenance and Insurance, Aircraft and Crews are provided by PO(the agreement is, I believe the first link.). They anticiapte providing crews when the SCBA is effective. Making it, in their words, a CMI agreement. Must be where they get the "ACMI-like" phrase from they constantly spout.
At RAH, each airline still has its own operational control facility.
The only merger that can be proposed under the current set-up (keeping 5Y and PO certificates to satisfy DHL), will be administrative, seniority list and CBA. Each certificate will STILL be required to have all required Part 119 positions. So, PO will still have A DO, DOM, CP, dispatchers, schedulers, certain MX positions, it's own ID's and airplanes that say "Operated by Polar Air Cargo" somewhere by the door.
Please don't take my word for it, do your own research, as I can be as wrong as can be. Look up Part 119 and required personnel, as well as requirements for maintaining operational control. Bear in mind that maintaining 2 certificates will have to meet required staffing. Certain things can, and will be combined, but those functions are already combined. Right now, sans pilots bidding back and forth, the company is as integrated as it will be, unless they merge certificates.
A definition of PACWW's relationship to PO. From the 30 JUN 07 10Q "Holdings is the parent company of two principal operating subsidiaries, Atlas Air, Inc. (“Atlas”), which is wholly owned, and Polar Air Cargo Worldwide, Inc. (“Polar”), of which Holdings has a 51% economic interest and 75% voting interest as of June 28, 2007. On June 28, 2007, Polar issued shares representing a 49% economic interest and a 25% voting interest to DHL Network Operations (USA), Inc. (“DHL”), a subsidiary of Deutsche Post AG (“DP”), (see Note 10 for additional discussion of the transaction). Prior to that date, Polar was wholly owned by Holdings and was the parent company of Polar Air Cargo, Inc. (“Polar LLC”). Holdings, Atlas, Polar and Polar LLC are referred to collectively as the “Company”. The Company provides air cargo and related services throughout the world, serving Asia, Australia, the Middle East, Africa, Europe, South America and the United States through: (i) contractual lease arrangements in which the Company provides the aircraft, crew, maintenance and insurance (“ACMI”); (ii) airport-to-airport scheduled air cargo service (“Scheduled Service”); (iii) military charter (“AMC Charter”); and (iv) seasonal, commercial and ad-hoc charter services (“Commercial Charter”). The Company operates only Boeing 747 freighter aircraft. "
Some addtional reading: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...085exv10w3.htm
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...085exv10w1.htm
Last edited by EJetCA; 5th Jan 2008 at 14:58. Reason: additional reading
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For lack of a better place to put this, I heard that Atlas just bought 2 more 747-400Fs (well one is a conversion) and there are two more coming? Any truth to that? One wonders why they didn't go to the Polar side if Polar is doing so well. Also heard the former Polar MEC chair may have resigned. Anyone? Beuhler? Also heard that since this board is now owned by a US company that there is a subpoena in the works to force them to reveal the identity of the "scab announcer."
I've been away for a while so someone clue me in please.
I've been away for a while so someone clue me in please.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 65
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Latest from ALPA
The Atlas Council side came out with this. Wasn't sure where to put it since it covers a little of the arbitration to compel Polar to merge and how the recent ALPA Executive Board decision ordering Polar to start negotiating might be entered as evidence in it. A few other things also.
Looks like the "Battle Stars" came through from ALPA National reinforcing the ADR that the Polar MEC thumbed their nose at in their message. One side of this equation is losing a lot of support and allies..
Looks like the "Battle Stars" came through from ALPA National reinforcing the ADR that the Polar MEC thumbed their nose at in their message. One side of this equation is losing a lot of support and allies..
Good evening fellow crewmembers, this is MEC Chairman Dave Bourne with a VARS message for Monday evening, January 21, 2008.
Last week we met in Washington with the ALPA Executive Council and today report back to you with two very important announcements.
First, the Executive Council has ordered Polar to immediately begin the Joint Negotiations process with us. This order by the council means that the Polar MEC has been ordered to have their Negotiating committee meet with the Atlas Negotiating committee to begin the process of a joint opener. As you know the company has filed a grievance to compel the Polar MEC to meet its obligations to complete the merger. ALPA's directive does NOT start the 270 day clock for negotiating a new CBA but does make Polar begin preparations for a merger with Atlas Air. This of course is contingent on the outcome of the grievance. We thank the Council for taking this step and look forward to the beginning of negotiations.
The second decision by the Council validated not only the report of the independent ADR Board selected by ALPA President Captain Prater, but tells the world what we've all known all along. The Executive Council approved ALPA "Battle Stars" for all Atlas crewmembers who were on the property during the Polar strike. The battle star signifies that we went on strike...in our case the first and only successful secondary strike in ALPA's history. We were able to get some to take to the Miami base meeting and will be coordinating with Herndon to get them out in the mail very soon.
The preliminary results from the first round of Wilson polling are now in. We will post the data in a few days on the Council web page for you to download.
On Thursday, we travelled to Miami to meet with crewmembers and the instructors and check airmen to discuss various issues and the concerns of the check airmen going forward for the training department. We believe that there are some valid issues to discuss with the company and met with and look forward to continued meetings and open discussions with the new Director of Training Resources Richard Rolland as we go forward.
The base meeting in Miami was very informative; the company is continuing to make steps to secure business and grow for our company with the goal of ensuring job security for the long term. The addition of the two new 400's, increased growth and new customers for both the 400 and the new 800's that are coming to Atlas all point to a strong and diversified business model that will be good for each of us. We were also advised that due to the early filer status of the company with the SEC, we might see the profit sharing come out early, probably in late March.
Thanks again to everyone who came out to meet us, it was great seeing you and we look forward to the next council meeting, which will be in LA in late March.
Until the next update, thanks for calling.
Fly safe.
Last week we met in Washington with the ALPA Executive Council and today report back to you with two very important announcements.
First, the Executive Council has ordered Polar to immediately begin the Joint Negotiations process with us. This order by the council means that the Polar MEC has been ordered to have their Negotiating committee meet with the Atlas Negotiating committee to begin the process of a joint opener. As you know the company has filed a grievance to compel the Polar MEC to meet its obligations to complete the merger. ALPA's directive does NOT start the 270 day clock for negotiating a new CBA but does make Polar begin preparations for a merger with Atlas Air. This of course is contingent on the outcome of the grievance. We thank the Council for taking this step and look forward to the beginning of negotiations.
The second decision by the Council validated not only the report of the independent ADR Board selected by ALPA President Captain Prater, but tells the world what we've all known all along. The Executive Council approved ALPA "Battle Stars" for all Atlas crewmembers who were on the property during the Polar strike. The battle star signifies that we went on strike...in our case the first and only successful secondary strike in ALPA's history. We were able to get some to take to the Miami base meeting and will be coordinating with Herndon to get them out in the mail very soon.
The preliminary results from the first round of Wilson polling are now in. We will post the data in a few days on the Council web page for you to download.
On Thursday, we travelled to Miami to meet with crewmembers and the instructors and check airmen to discuss various issues and the concerns of the check airmen going forward for the training department. We believe that there are some valid issues to discuss with the company and met with and look forward to continued meetings and open discussions with the new Director of Training Resources Richard Rolland as we go forward.
The base meeting in Miami was very informative; the company is continuing to make steps to secure business and grow for our company with the goal of ensuring job security for the long term. The addition of the two new 400's, increased growth and new customers for both the 400 and the new 800's that are coming to Atlas all point to a strong and diversified business model that will be good for each of us. We were also advised that due to the early filer status of the company with the SEC, we might see the profit sharing come out early, probably in late March.
Thanks again to everyone who came out to meet us, it was great seeing you and we look forward to the next council meeting, which will be in LA in late March.
Until the next update, thanks for calling.
Fly safe.
Last edited by nitty-gritty; 25th Jan 2008 at 04:49.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vanuatu
Age: 74
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sure if you want to believe the Bourne-Caputo Spin. You hear a different messege from both sides. If you are an outsider, you have to keep your eyes open to see what really happens. Polar and Atlas are always 180 degrees out in their VARS. Go figure! Not taking sides, just stating the facts....All Crewmembers were sent a letter from Capt. Prater saying the whole problem is with Management (ie J.C.)! DUH !
Last edited by rob rilly; 23rd Jan 2008 at 21:11.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 65
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know what you mean.
If nothing else, they did pass out the ALPA issued "Battle Stars" at the last council meeting in MIA.
Just got this pdf file from Pres. Prater on the Executive council resolution to start negotiating despite the company arbitration scheduled later this month.
https://crewroom.alpa.org/AAI072/Des...cumentID=41658
You'll have to cut and past it into your browser since I've noticed the mods have been yanking posts with active links on them. Don't know if you can upload a file here..
Correction Note....
Select persons are now required moderators approval before posting. I hope I'm not the only one.
If nothing else, they did pass out the ALPA issued "Battle Stars" at the last council meeting in MIA.
Just got this pdf file from Pres. Prater on the Executive council resolution to start negotiating despite the company arbitration scheduled later this month.
https://crewroom.alpa.org/AAI072/Des...cumentID=41658
You'll have to cut and past it into your browser since I've noticed the mods have been yanking posts with active links on them. Don't know if you can upload a file here..
Correction Note....
Select persons are now required moderators approval before posting. I hope I'm not the only one.
Last edited by nitty-gritty; 25th Jan 2008 at 04:55.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: US
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No comments just facts
Not that I think PPRUNE will allow this to be posted to anyone as they have censored most of the Atlas guys but here goes......Dear Atlas and Polar Crewmembers:
I am writing pursuant to the instruction of the ALPA Executive Council last week “that the President report to the AAI and PAC pilots on 2007–2008 developments including the terms of this resolution.” The full Executive Council resolution is attached to read at your convenience. This letter will review with you the activities of the Association over the past year involving the many issues facing your groups, the most recent action taken by the ALPA Executive Council, and my view on where things go from here.
Early last year, after the announcement of the complex DHL transaction involving Polar, ALPA worked with both MECs and negotiating committees to craft a joint transition proposal to the Company. This proposal included significant scope enhancements to address this new corporate structure, as a framework for the negotiation of an integrated collective bargaining agreement and an interest arbitration process for the resolution of contract issues on which the parties could not reach timely agreement.
This was done after management indicated that it would consider scope as well as bargaining framework issues as part of reaching a merger transition agreement. Unfortunately, these good-faith efforts were derailed when management changed its position and refused to consider bargaining over scope. My staff and both MECs met with company management several times to try to work out compromises that would jump-start the bargaining process, but management remained steadfast in its refusal to consider scope negotiations, except to indicate a willingness to assure that the current scope protection in both agreements would be a baseline for scope provisions to be included in the integrated collective bargaining agreement. This about-face on the part of management, combined with management’s legal tactics, has impeded and delayed ALPA’s ability to bring this process to a conclusion.
On the legal front, management further complicated matters by filing grievances against ALPA under both collective bargaining agreements, attempting to force joint bargaining and interest arbitration to proceed on its terms, without first addressing scope improvements. Management then filed a lawsuit to attempt to force the Polar management grievance on that issue to proceed on an expedited basis, over the objection of the Polar MEC, rather than having this determined by System Board arbitration. The result of the lawsuit was a consent order providing that the System Board arbitrator would determine how soon the grievance would be heard. That was done, and the hearing on the merits of that grievance, which will determine whether the post-DHL financial investment and corporate structure of your carriers constitutes a merger within the meaning of the Polar CBA, is scheduled in late March. I think it is fair to say that it is the view of all sides that the result of that key arbitration, which should be known by mid-year, will go a long way to bring resolution to the merger issue.
It is also unfortunate that these events have been accompanied by differences between the Atlas and Polar MECs. The ALPA Executive Council has sought to resolve these differences, passing a resolution in October 2007 urging the MECs to meet to work out their differences and report to the Council this month. Per the Executive Council resolution, I convened several discussions with representatives of both MECs, my Executive Administrator, general counsel, ALPA staff, and other national officers.
Last week, after hearing from both MECs that an agreement had not been reached, the Executive Council directed the MECs to meet and work together on negotiations preparations, without prejudice to the position of the Polar MEC in the pending arbitration, and to report on the results at the April 2008 Executive Council meeting, or at an earlier date if I believe that appropriate. You should also be aware that, over the past 12 months, the Executive Council has approved approximately $673,000 to support your two MECs in finding solutions and resolving their differences.
The Council and I believe that this process has taken far longer than it should have, for a variety of reasons, but regardless of the outcome of the Polar System Board arbitration and whether the two groups end up in joint contract bargaining or separate Section 6 negotiations, it is critical that the bargaining processes begin promptly. It is my and the Council’s expectation that the time over the next few months will be used wisely by both groups for negotiations preparations, so that regardless of the outcome of the legal dispute on the merger issue, our members at both Atlas and Polar are timely and well served with new, improved pay rates and working conditions.
The pilots who serve on the Executive Council and I fully understand that issues emanating from corporate transactions, strikes, mergers, arbitrations, and litigation can create problems among our members. But, as union officers, it is our responsibility and our sincere desire that the open issues that divide you be addressed and resolved face to face in the very near future. That is the reason for the Executive Council’s resolution, which allows the Polar MEC position on the merger question to be arbitrated and directs that the two negotiating committees simultaneously prepare for submission of their contract opener(s).AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
101ST REGULAR EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING
January 15-17, 2008
SUBJECT
AAI-PAC Merger
SOURCE
President John Prater (10/07 EXCL, AI #37)
BACKGROUND INFORMATION
In October 2007, the AAI MEC adopted a resolution requesting the President to present the AAI/PAC merged seniority list (the Harris Award) to Atlas Air, Polar Air Cargo, and Atlas Air Worldwide. They further requested that joint contract negotiations with the PAC MEC commence no later than December 14, 2007.
In November 2006, the Executive Council established a program with respect to the AAI-PAC merger and has continued to review the status of developments with respect to the merger.
At the October 2007 meeting, the Executive Council stated its desire to consider whether management would take constructive action to assist both pilot groups in resolving their differences through a negotiated transition agreement which protects the legitimate interests of both pilot groups. They determined that the AAI MEC and PAC MEC should be provided with an opportunity to resolve their differences. Barring resolution, both MECs could appear before the Executive Council before it considers whether additional action is appropriate.
The Executive Council restated its request that the AAI MEC and PAC MEC confer with respect to resolving their differences, with the assistance of the Executive Administrator, and if so directed by the President, report at the January 2008 Executive Council meeting.
FINAL RESOLUTION
WHEREAS the Executive Council on November 30, 2006, established a program with respect to the AAI-PAC merger, and
WHEREAS the Executive Council, at its October 2007 meeting, restated its request that the AAI MEC and PAC MEC confer with respect to resolving their differences, and report at the January 2008 Executive Council meeting, and
WHEREAS the Executive Council has received reports from the respective MECs and considered the issues arising from the inability of the MECs to resolve their differences, and
WHEREAS the Executive Council has determined that the best interests of the pilots will be served by working together on negotiations preparation, without prejudice to the position of the PAC MEC in PAC System Board proceedings concerning the merger,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the AAI and PAC negotiating committee members, together with the Executive Administrator, jointly convene as soon as possible and prepare for negotiations, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the President report to the AAI and PAC pilots on 2007-2008 developments including the terms of this resolution, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the AAI and PAC MEC Chairmen report to the Executive Council at its April 2008 meeting, or at an earlier date if so directed by the President, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this resolution and the action taken pursuant to its directives shall be without prejudice to the positions of the PAC MEC in pending System Board proceedings and shall not be introduced into or referred to in any way in pending System Board proceedings.
January 23, 2008
I am writing pursuant to the instruction of the ALPA Executive Council last week “that the President report to the AAI and PAC pilots on 2007–2008 developments including the terms of this resolution.” The full Executive Council resolution is attached to read at your convenience. This letter will review with you the activities of the Association over the past year involving the many issues facing your groups, the most recent action taken by the ALPA Executive Council, and my view on where things go from here.
Early last year, after the announcement of the complex DHL transaction involving Polar, ALPA worked with both MECs and negotiating committees to craft a joint transition proposal to the Company. This proposal included significant scope enhancements to address this new corporate structure, as a framework for the negotiation of an integrated collective bargaining agreement and an interest arbitration process for the resolution of contract issues on which the parties could not reach timely agreement.
This was done after management indicated that it would consider scope as well as bargaining framework issues as part of reaching a merger transition agreement. Unfortunately, these good-faith efforts were derailed when management changed its position and refused to consider bargaining over scope. My staff and both MECs met with company management several times to try to work out compromises that would jump-start the bargaining process, but management remained steadfast in its refusal to consider scope negotiations, except to indicate a willingness to assure that the current scope protection in both agreements would be a baseline for scope provisions to be included in the integrated collective bargaining agreement. This about-face on the part of management, combined with management’s legal tactics, has impeded and delayed ALPA’s ability to bring this process to a conclusion.
On the legal front, management further complicated matters by filing grievances against ALPA under both collective bargaining agreements, attempting to force joint bargaining and interest arbitration to proceed on its terms, without first addressing scope improvements. Management then filed a lawsuit to attempt to force the Polar management grievance on that issue to proceed on an expedited basis, over the objection of the Polar MEC, rather than having this determined by System Board arbitration. The result of the lawsuit was a consent order providing that the System Board arbitrator would determine how soon the grievance would be heard. That was done, and the hearing on the merits of that grievance, which will determine whether the post-DHL financial investment and corporate structure of your carriers constitutes a merger within the meaning of the Polar CBA, is scheduled in late March. I think it is fair to say that it is the view of all sides that the result of that key arbitration, which should be known by mid-year, will go a long way to bring resolution to the merger issue.
It is also unfortunate that these events have been accompanied by differences between the Atlas and Polar MECs. The ALPA Executive Council has sought to resolve these differences, passing a resolution in October 2007 urging the MECs to meet to work out their differences and report to the Council this month. Per the Executive Council resolution, I convened several discussions with representatives of both MECs, my Executive Administrator, general counsel, ALPA staff, and other national officers.
Last week, after hearing from both MECs that an agreement had not been reached, the Executive Council directed the MECs to meet and work together on negotiations preparations, without prejudice to the position of the Polar MEC in the pending arbitration, and to report on the results at the April 2008 Executive Council meeting, or at an earlier date if I believe that appropriate. You should also be aware that, over the past 12 months, the Executive Council has approved approximately $673,000 to support your two MECs in finding solutions and resolving their differences.
The Council and I believe that this process has taken far longer than it should have, for a variety of reasons, but regardless of the outcome of the Polar System Board arbitration and whether the two groups end up in joint contract bargaining or separate Section 6 negotiations, it is critical that the bargaining processes begin promptly. It is my and the Council’s expectation that the time over the next few months will be used wisely by both groups for negotiations preparations, so that regardless of the outcome of the legal dispute on the merger issue, our members at both Atlas and Polar are timely and well served with new, improved pay rates and working conditions.
The pilots who serve on the Executive Council and I fully understand that issues emanating from corporate transactions, strikes, mergers, arbitrations, and litigation can create problems among our members. But, as union officers, it is our responsibility and our sincere desire that the open issues that divide you be addressed and resolved face to face in the very near future. That is the reason for the Executive Council’s resolution, which allows the Polar MEC position on the merger question to be arbitrated and directs that the two negotiating committees simultaneously prepare for submission of their contract opener(s).
In unity,
John H. Prater
President
John H. Prater
President
101ST REGULAR EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING
January 15-17, 2008
SUBJECT
AAI-PAC Merger
SOURCE
President John Prater (10/07 EXCL, AI #37)
BACKGROUND INFORMATION
In October 2007, the AAI MEC adopted a resolution requesting the President to present the AAI/PAC merged seniority list (the Harris Award) to Atlas Air, Polar Air Cargo, and Atlas Air Worldwide. They further requested that joint contract negotiations with the PAC MEC commence no later than December 14, 2007.
In November 2006, the Executive Council established a program with respect to the AAI-PAC merger and has continued to review the status of developments with respect to the merger.
At the October 2007 meeting, the Executive Council stated its desire to consider whether management would take constructive action to assist both pilot groups in resolving their differences through a negotiated transition agreement which protects the legitimate interests of both pilot groups. They determined that the AAI MEC and PAC MEC should be provided with an opportunity to resolve their differences. Barring resolution, both MECs could appear before the Executive Council before it considers whether additional action is appropriate.
The Executive Council restated its request that the AAI MEC and PAC MEC confer with respect to resolving their differences, with the assistance of the Executive Administrator, and if so directed by the President, report at the January 2008 Executive Council meeting.
FINAL RESOLUTION
WHEREAS the Executive Council on November 30, 2006, established a program with respect to the AAI-PAC merger, and
WHEREAS the Executive Council, at its October 2007 meeting, restated its request that the AAI MEC and PAC MEC confer with respect to resolving their differences, and report at the January 2008 Executive Council meeting, and
WHEREAS the Executive Council has received reports from the respective MECs and considered the issues arising from the inability of the MECs to resolve their differences, and
WHEREAS the Executive Council has determined that the best interests of the pilots will be served by working together on negotiations preparation, without prejudice to the position of the PAC MEC in PAC System Board proceedings concerning the merger,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the AAI and PAC negotiating committee members, together with the Executive Administrator, jointly convene as soon as possible and prepare for negotiations, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the President report to the AAI and PAC pilots on 2007-2008 developments including the terms of this resolution, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the AAI and PAC MEC Chairmen report to the Executive Council at its April 2008 meeting, or at an earlier date if so directed by the President, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this resolution and the action taken pursuant to its directives shall be without prejudice to the positions of the PAC MEC in pending System Board proceedings and shall not be introduced into or referred to in any way in pending System Board proceedings.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: atlanta
Age: 58
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ALPA is not in a postion to order anything.
The two MEC's have already sat down and talked and negotiated a couple years ago. Atlas threw in the towel when they didnt want to agree on a "time line fence" for the purchase of PAC. Prater knows this. He sat in on the talks himself.
Again and again and again(for all the pee brains out there) Polar has an iron clad scope clause TIED TO A CERTIFICATE and we expect it to be honored. It really doesnt get any more simple than that.
Atlas,,,, good luck on your future section 6 neg.
The two MEC's have already sat down and talked and negotiated a couple years ago. Atlas threw in the towel when they didnt want to agree on a "time line fence" for the purchase of PAC. Prater knows this. He sat in on the talks himself.
Again and again and again(for all the pee brains out there) Polar has an iron clad scope clause TIED TO A CERTIFICATE and we expect it to be honored. It really doesnt get any more simple than that.
Atlas,,,, good luck on your future section 6 neg.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: US
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
101 - you must have missed the several dozen posts that say that it is not the "certificate" that is in question. What IS the question is whether this is a "complete operational merger." And indeed it is. Every aspect of the company has been merged with the exception of the pilot groups. Your version of the talks between the two MECs is also quite simply wrong, and there have been many many posts that contain the actual facts that refute your statement. It is pointless to continue to spout your disingenuous rhetoric.