Polar Arbitration III(a)
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Ahh, the point of view you have heard from your leadership, so it must be true??
Let's see. Ask the folks at China Airlines. They had no cargo operation before we showed up, or Qantas, or Emirates or Air New Zealand or China Southern. All company's that didn't want to mess with all cargo until Atlas gave them an option to put their toes in the water without major investments. China now operates a large fleet of 747-400's on their own, all owed to Atlas showing them how. Emirates now has an order in for their own 747-8's to run their own operation. Qantas just extended their contract out six more years. Not TAKING a single pilot job because they never had a all cargo operation to begin with.
As far as taking jobs, normally when we show up, the company is trying new markets that they normally wouldn't try. We give them the ability to test markets before spending huge capital for maybe a dead end.
As far as flying other peoples freight, look no further than Polar. Someone was flying between your city pairs before you showed up, so the cargo is actually theirs (by your way of thinking), so your doing the same thing. Freight forwarders go between carriers all the time. Deal with it....
When Polar took the first bribe to extend your contract for 18 months for 3 1/2 %, the whole process was set in motion. Cato and company knew they had us where they wanted us.....again, deal with it.
Let's see. Ask the folks at China Airlines. They had no cargo operation before we showed up, or Qantas, or Emirates or Air New Zealand or China Southern. All company's that didn't want to mess with all cargo until Atlas gave them an option to put their toes in the water without major investments. China now operates a large fleet of 747-400's on their own, all owed to Atlas showing them how. Emirates now has an order in for their own 747-8's to run their own operation. Qantas just extended their contract out six more years. Not TAKING a single pilot job because they never had a all cargo operation to begin with.
As far as taking jobs, normally when we show up, the company is trying new markets that they normally wouldn't try. We give them the ability to test markets before spending huge capital for maybe a dead end.
As far as flying other peoples freight, look no further than Polar. Someone was flying between your city pairs before you showed up, so the cargo is actually theirs (by your way of thinking), so your doing the same thing. Freight forwarders go between carriers all the time. Deal with it....
When Polar took the first bribe to extend your contract for 18 months for 3 1/2 %, the whole process was set in motion. Cato and company knew they had us where they wanted us.....again, deal with it.
Last edited by WhaleDriver; 11th Dec 2007 at 20:45.
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Now ain't that just simply astonishing. Polar customers, Polar freight, on Polar scheduled service one day and then with a flick of the magic wand, SHEZAMM, out of the smoke and mirrors, the same freight just magically arises out of the dust cloud as Atlas freight. Just frigging amazing.
So, Polar withdraws from a market. Atlas gets the appropriate approvals and enters the market. The Freight Forwarders consign their freight to Atlas. The ONLY "magic" thing about the deal is that "Polar" and "Atlas" happen to be the same people at the top.
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Funny how Atlas never thanked Tower for getting them started ! Funny how Evergreen has had a Quantas contract for over 16 years ! Polar has had a Quantas contract for over 8 years. Now ask Bournputo to give you some truths. 
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How does who did our proving runs have to do with anything, and just how are we suppose to thank Tower and you to thank the original Southern?
The deal Polar had with Qantas was a space block agreement. Or were you ACMI for Qantas? I have no idea about Evergreen. Haven't seen one of their planes in Sydney in years. If they were so what, it's called competition. Are you proposing that a carrier can never change who they go with?
The deal Polar had with Qantas was a space block agreement. Or were you ACMI for Qantas? I have no idea about Evergreen. Haven't seen one of their planes in Sydney in years. If they were so what, it's called competition. Are you proposing that a carrier can never change who they go with?
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Just a simple power struggle. Now there are two MECs, after the merger there will only be one.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
Thats what the Atlas MEC wants you to believe. The merger has not happened and whether it ever happens is currently in the hands of an arbitrator to decide. The entire question comes down to whether or not Polar's scope clause in their currrent contract will be honored and complied with. Nothing more, nothing less. Polar wants their contract to be abided by and Atlas wants to strip Polars scope clause out, merge and get the seats out of the projected DHL windfall.
>>>>>
Thats what the Atlas MEC wants you to believe. The merger has not happened and whether it ever happens is currently in the hands of an arbitrator to decide. The entire question comes down to whether or not Polar's scope clause in their currrent contract will be honored and complied with. Nothing more, nothing less. Polar wants their contract to be abided by and Atlas wants to strip Polars scope clause out, merge and get the seats out of the projected DHL windfall.
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Getting pretty thick.
I've worked for Evergreen and Atlas. Flown the same customers QF, BA , NZ routes and flight numbers at both places. Back and fourth depending on who was screwing up at the time or cheaper. If any of it touches Polar whether through block space, charter or ACMI then everyone after Polar is subsequently taking "Polar" freight and flying the way it sounds here. Not very realistic.
I guess DHL USA and Europe better look out. All of their freight becomes Polar freight by devine right under that logic.
Polar crews didn't seem to have a problem with taking Atlas A/C and customers resulting in Atlas furloughs while Polar hired off the street when the company was making a negotiating point to the Atlas union.
I've worked for Evergreen and Atlas. Flown the same customers QF, BA , NZ routes and flight numbers at both places. Back and fourth depending on who was screwing up at the time or cheaper. If any of it touches Polar whether through block space, charter or ACMI then everyone after Polar is subsequently taking "Polar" freight and flying the way it sounds here. Not very realistic.
I guess DHL USA and Europe better look out. All of their freight becomes Polar freight by devine right under that logic.
Now ain't that just simply astonishing. Polar customers, Polar freight, on Polar scheduled service one day and then with a flick of the magic wand, SHEZAMM, out of the smoke and mirrors, the same freight just magically arises out of the dust cloud as Atlas freight. Just frigging amazing.
Last edited by fuegolibre; 12th Dec 2007 at 02:39.
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Just a couple of points.
The first is that Polar had a code-share agreement with Qantas not block space and not ACMI. They were ill equipped to do what Atlas is doing now which is to open up markets that Qantas would not have access to.
Secondly, Polar NEVER would have gotten started themselves if it were not for Southern Air Transport.
Next is the fact that the original Polar was never designed to make money. It was designed to generate revenue from some old clapped out lease returns to Polaris leasing which was part of GE capital. Old Jack Welch decided to put the airframes to work instead of letting them rot in the desert.
Another point of fact is that NO non-integrated cargo carrier has ever made money unless they were also heavy into ACMI which Polar never was and which the Polaroids think is terrible (unless of course they want it).
Finally, as a stand alone Polar was within a month of bankruptcy when Atlas bailed them out - the Polar pilots have had jobs for the last six years that they would not have had and they haven't thanked Atlas - so why is it they want Atlas pilots to thank Tower?
Just another example of the whacked out thinking coming from Green Turtle Key.
Uncle Bobo Wrote:
Not true. The merger is GOING to happen. Whether the Polar pilots will be a part of it is in the hands of the arbitrator
Actually not true either. The ENTIRE question rests in the definition of complete operational merger. The Polar scope clause says nothing about certificates - so the arbitrator gets to decided what is a complete operational merger. To date Atlas has combined virtually every aspect of the operations with the exception of the pilots. I would say that is a complete operational merger.
The Atlas pilots want nothing of the sort. If you make it to the combined seniority list the windfall will be yours also. Also keep in mind that the DHL contract was negotiated by and for ATLAS AIR Worldwide Holdings. As far as I know no Polar management official was even involved. Why - oh yeah that whole complete merger thingy. Sorry Bobo - you lose this arguement.
The first is that Polar had a code-share agreement with Qantas not block space and not ACMI. They were ill equipped to do what Atlas is doing now which is to open up markets that Qantas would not have access to.
Secondly, Polar NEVER would have gotten started themselves if it were not for Southern Air Transport.
Next is the fact that the original Polar was never designed to make money. It was designed to generate revenue from some old clapped out lease returns to Polaris leasing which was part of GE capital. Old Jack Welch decided to put the airframes to work instead of letting them rot in the desert.
Another point of fact is that NO non-integrated cargo carrier has ever made money unless they were also heavy into ACMI which Polar never was and which the Polaroids think is terrible (unless of course they want it).
Finally, as a stand alone Polar was within a month of bankruptcy when Atlas bailed them out - the Polar pilots have had jobs for the last six years that they would not have had and they haven't thanked Atlas - so why is it they want Atlas pilots to thank Tower?
Just another example of the whacked out thinking coming from Green Turtle Key.
Uncle Bobo Wrote:
The merger has not happened and whether it ever happens is currently in the hands of an arbitrator to decide.
The entire question comes down to whether or not Polar's scope clause in their currrent contract will be honored and complied with. Nothing more, nothing less.
Polar wants their contract to be abided by and Atlas wants to strip Polars scope clause out, merge and get the seats out of the projected DHL windfall.
Last edited by WhaleFR8; 11th Dec 2007 at 22:56.
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Whale
FYI Polar was started by Ned Wallace (ex Flying Tiger).
The way it was explained to me by those who were there at the beginning, Ned originally wanted to keep the name Flying Tiger and Fed Ex said no; then he tried Polaris but there was a company already named Polaris. He finally settled on Polar and the call sign was originally "Polar-Tiger" and later the Tiger was dropped.
GE didn't become involved until many years later.
FYI Polar was started by Ned Wallace (ex Flying Tiger).
The way it was explained to me by those who were there at the beginning, Ned originally wanted to keep the name Flying Tiger and Fed Ex said no; then he tried Polaris but there was a company already named Polaris. He finally settled on Polar and the call sign was originally "Polar-Tiger" and later the Tiger was dropped.
GE didn't become involved until many years later.
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Beg to differ, layinlow.
GE was a partner (49%) with Uncle Ned from the beginning - thru a partnership with Polaris Leasing, a subsidiary of GE.
Because FedEx was moving in a different direction with their acquisition of Tiger's at the time, Ned then tried to copy old Flying Tiger's with every detail inclusive of routes ect - right down to their logo (he used a a rope circle "P" instead of the Tiger's rope circle "T"). . . . Uncle Ned defaulted on a loan back in 98, and that's when GE took over 100%.
(Trivia - I am told that Polar's "circle P" logo was an initial insult to some Japanese with WWII remembrance, because of it's design similarity which mimicked occupied Japan's POW logo that was printed on the uniformed shirt backs of many Jap detainees).
GE was a partner (49%) with Uncle Ned from the beginning - thru a partnership with Polaris Leasing, a subsidiary of GE.
Because FedEx was moving in a different direction with their acquisition of Tiger's at the time, Ned then tried to copy old Flying Tiger's with every detail inclusive of routes ect - right down to their logo (he used a a rope circle "P" instead of the Tiger's rope circle "T"). . . . Uncle Ned defaulted on a loan back in 98, and that's when GE took over 100%.
(Trivia - I am told that Polar's "circle P" logo was an initial insult to some Japanese with WWII remembrance, because of it's design similarity which mimicked occupied Japan's POW logo that was printed on the uniformed shirt backs of many Jap detainees).
Last edited by L-38; 12th Dec 2007 at 19:10.
Not having that x CR2
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". . .meeting delayed till Dec. 19"
I understand that Polar's FE arbitration had actually gone it's distance over the scheduled two days, however the company then requested a third day - Dec 19.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?