Emirates Roadshow HONG KONG March.
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On the other hand, if you want to live on Lamma Island in 300 sq ft and dine forever on fish soup, HKG is real cheap.
As for days off, CX is now rostering some of your 8 G days down route so you could be working all month and never get more than 12 hrs at home.
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This is utter BS, an equivalent apartment for what you get in DXB even for an F/O in HKG would be at least $80K, figure $120-140 for an equivalent villa in HKG. There are plenty of guys putting a ton of money into accommodation costs to have a normal life, now that the housing allowance has been cut by 70%. Take that out of your pay-packet and there's no way it's a paycut to join EK from CN3. It's local conditions in CX now, so it will never again compare to an expat gig anywhere.
On the other hand, if you want to live on Lamma Island in 300 sq ft and dine forever on fish soup, HKG is real cheap.
As for days off, CX is now rostering some of your 8 G days down route so you could be working all month and never get more than 12 hrs at home.
On the other hand, if you want to live on Lamma Island in 300 sq ft and dine forever on fish soup, HKG is real cheap.
As for days off, CX is now rostering some of your 8 G days down route so you could be working all month and never get more than 12 hrs at home.
Last edited by corporal klinger; 28th Jul 2023 at 10:05.
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You are wrong. Joining EK would indeed cut my pay in half, probably more since I had to start in the right seat again. I own my flat (bigger than 300 sqfeet), I regularly get productivity pay, never had less than 10 off days, usually more, and never a G day enroute. Ever.This is the truth. How about an apology?
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You are wrong. Joining EK would indeed cut my pay in half, probably more since I had to start in the right seat again. I own my flat (bigger than 300 sqfeet), I regularly get productivity pay, never had less than 10 off days, usually more, and never a G day enroute. Ever.This is the truth. How about an apology?
You'd be going as a DEC so actually no, your experience would land you in the LHS.
They just started with G days enroute, I'm not surprised you haven't got any yet much like unrequested W patterns that have also just arrived.
Productivity pay? Bwahahaha. It's a 74% paycut from previous COS if you do the old magical 106 hrs.
If you've seriously got $10-12 million USD tied up in property in HKG with all the economic warning signs Hong Kong has and you're hanging onto it, my condolences.
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All your conclusions are wrong, not sure how else to put it so you are willing to accept the truth. You seem incapable to see the world through a different viewpoint.
On a side note, I have unfortunately seen too many colleagues making emotional decisions, and you seem guided more out of hate for the old rather than love for the new.. No idea how EK will work out for you, and if you actually had read and processed my posts you would find that I never said anything against joining EK in general. Just for me it would not make sense. I sincerely hope you based your decision on sustainable and meaningful numbers. Logically it does not make sense to focus on the paycut at CX over the years, but to look at current numbers and those of alternatives only. Your post is suspiciously full of references to the past. Again, emotionally understandable, but logically wrong.
For me the squarefeet of my place are not a problem.I like to live in my own property and I would not buy in Dubai, for various reasons. I simply would not want to swap with a "villa" in a suburb of Dubai.No matter how big.
Commands might come sooner or later than advertised, nature of the business. Wait and see how the climate and the local mentality look like after a while. I don't think you can judge EK yet, it will take years. Once the new becomes the old you will know.
On a side note, I have unfortunately seen too many colleagues making emotional decisions, and you seem guided more out of hate for the old rather than love for the new.. No idea how EK will work out for you, and if you actually had read and processed my posts you would find that I never said anything against joining EK in general. Just for me it would not make sense. I sincerely hope you based your decision on sustainable and meaningful numbers. Logically it does not make sense to focus on the paycut at CX over the years, but to look at current numbers and those of alternatives only. Your post is suspiciously full of references to the past. Again, emotionally understandable, but logically wrong.
For me the squarefeet of my place are not a problem.I like to live in my own property and I would not buy in Dubai, for various reasons. I simply would not want to swap with a "villa" in a suburb of Dubai.No matter how big.
Commands might come sooner or later than advertised, nature of the business. Wait and see how the climate and the local mentality look like after a while. I don't think you can judge EK yet, it will take years. Once the new becomes the old you will know.
Last edited by corporal klinger; 29th Jul 2023 at 02:55.
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Forget it, Klinger. It's impossible to point out individual differences in here, beyond the level of comprehension if these guys. And don't even try to point out financial losses/ promotion/ block hours etc. You will always be the guy who blindly defends Cathay, full of Stockholm etc. Hopeless.
All your conclusions are wrong, not sure how else to put it so you are willing to accept the truth. You seem incapable to see the world through a different viewpoint.
On a side note, I have unfortunately seen too many colleagues making emotional decisions, and you seem guided more out of hate for the old rather than love for the new.. No idea how EK will work out for you, and if you actually had read and processed my posts you would find that I never said anything against joining EK in general. Just for me it would not make sense. I sincerely hope you based your decision on sustainable and meaningful numbers. Logically it does not make sense to focus on the paycut at CX over the years, but to look at current numbers and those of alternatives only. Your post is suspiciously full of references to the past. Again, emotionally understandable, but logically wrong.
For me the squarefeet of my place are not a problem.I like to live in my own property and I would not buy in Dubai, for various reasons. I simply would not want to swap with a "villa" in a suburb of Dubai.No matter how big.
Commands might come sooner or later than advertised, nature of the business. Wait and see how the climate and the local mentality look like after a while. I don't think you can judge EK yet, it will take years. Once the new becomes the old you will know.
On a side note, I have unfortunately seen too many colleagues making emotional decisions, and you seem guided more out of hate for the old rather than love for the new.. No idea how EK will work out for you, and if you actually had read and processed my posts you would find that I never said anything against joining EK in general. Just for me it would not make sense. I sincerely hope you based your decision on sustainable and meaningful numbers. Logically it does not make sense to focus on the paycut at CX over the years, but to look at current numbers and those of alternatives only. Your post is suspiciously full of references to the past. Again, emotionally understandable, but logically wrong.
For me the squarefeet of my place are not a problem.I like to live in my own property and I would not buy in Dubai, for various reasons. I simply would not want to swap with a "villa" in a suburb of Dubai.No matter how big.
Commands might come sooner or later than advertised, nature of the business. Wait and see how the climate and the local mentality look like after a while. I don't think you can judge EK yet, it will take years. Once the new becomes the old you will know.
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Ok, I apologise. So, much like a Villa at EK, you're also in a 2500 sqft sized place but in Hkg which even in todays market is $10-12m USD. And you own it. Awesome. Or more likely you're in 800 sq ft, 1100 sqft gross under the messed up "I own some of the elevator and the janitor's ****ter" measuring that only occurs in HKG. And you think that's massive, no Airbus wide body skipper anywhere in the world lives in bigger than 800 sq ft is what you're thinking, so you're king of the world.
You'd be going as a DEC so actually no, your experience would land you in the LHS.
They just started with G days enroute, I'm not surprised you haven't got any yet much like unrequested W patterns that have also just arrived.
Productivity pay? Bwahahaha. It's a 74% paycut from previous COS if you do the old magical 106 hrs.
If you've seriously got $10-12 million USD tied up in property in HKG with all the economic warning signs Hong Kong has and you're hanging onto it, my condolences.
You'd be going as a DEC so actually no, your experience would land you in the LHS.
They just started with G days enroute, I'm not surprised you haven't got any yet much like unrequested W patterns that have also just arrived.
Productivity pay? Bwahahaha. It's a 74% paycut from previous COS if you do the old magical 106 hrs.
If you've seriously got $10-12 million USD tied up in property in HKG with all the economic warning signs Hong Kong has and you're hanging onto it, my condolences.
Many of my friends who have remained in HK own their condos outright. Yes I left due to the pay cut, my contract was decimated and changed to "policy" but I do not judge my peers who stayed. We all have various reasons for big life decisions that we make and no one is right or wrong.
As I have said, I am not defending CX but merely pointing out to you facts. IMHO, the only real way to make HKG work nowadays is to own a place with no mortgage and have no kids, or kids that have flown the nest and are now not dependant on you.
Regarding G days down route, not many of my friends are experiencing it and those that have got them now have 5 day patterns instead of 4. In EK you only get paid for the time you do in the seat whereas in CX you get paid for the whole flight. It seems most airlines (except US carriers) are set on giving pilots min days off and it's becoming the industry norm in most countries sadly.
Dubai is a great place, I loved staying there, its great for a holiday or for visiting friends but to live in that heat 24/7 is not appealing for a lot of people. That doesn't mean HKG is better than DXB or vice versa, it's just some things work for some people and not for others. It's all down to personal choice and whatever choice my peers make is their choice and no one else's business, particularly yours or mine.
Its not a dick measuring competition of who's life/job is better. As I said, its all down to personal preference. I would suggest less anger and mocking as it will take years of your life.
Peace...
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The avid supporters are back! How quickly you guys forget what we went through with covid.
-POS 18 - yeah productivity pay is amazing but how long you think that will last for? It’s an expense that the company can easily cut. Also what will happen when they recruit enough pilots? Bye bye productivity pay.
- Medical - Yet to hear of any another company that deducts your medical plan HK if you get injured in an outport.
- Schooling - Enjoy the public system. The allowance is laughable for an international school.
- Employee abandonment - Y’all forget how the company sold us out to the government and abandoned our needs, all for the sake to “keep the company moving”. Forgetting the Frankfurt saga so quickly? Guess you weren’t stuck in PB with your family in a shipping container.
How about getting shipped off to PB after a turnaround because you used the same aircraft as someone who was Covid positive, then made to feel like a beggar, asking for basic necessities that the company “doesn’t provide”.
And after all this you still defend the company? It just shows you’re only in a minority group. An employee engagement survey score of -91 tells you all you need to know about the company.
-POS 18 - yeah productivity pay is amazing but how long you think that will last for? It’s an expense that the company can easily cut. Also what will happen when they recruit enough pilots? Bye bye productivity pay.
- Medical - Yet to hear of any another company that deducts your medical plan HK if you get injured in an outport.
- Schooling - Enjoy the public system. The allowance is laughable for an international school.
- Employee abandonment - Y’all forget how the company sold us out to the government and abandoned our needs, all for the sake to “keep the company moving”. Forgetting the Frankfurt saga so quickly? Guess you weren’t stuck in PB with your family in a shipping container.
How about getting shipped off to PB after a turnaround because you used the same aircraft as someone who was Covid positive, then made to feel like a beggar, asking for basic necessities that the company “doesn’t provide”.
And after all this you still defend the company? It just shows you’re only in a minority group. An employee engagement survey score of -91 tells you all you need to know about the company.
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I'm no longer in CX mainly due to the pay cut but I can't recall it being 74% for me at CN 4. I'm not defending CX by any means but the presumptions you make are not correct. I have many friends living in condos fully paid off much bigger than 800 sq ft. I myself had a place paid off which was around 1400 sq ft. I was well above threshold nearly every month and I didn't have to fly 106 hours as you mention. I needed to do about 70 to earn the same as my previous contract.
Many of my friends who have remained in HK own their condos outright. Yes I left due to the pay cut, my contract was decimated and changed to "policy" but I do not judge my peers who stayed. We all have various reasons for big life decisions that we make and no one is right or wrong.
As I have said, I am not defending CX but merely pointing out to you facts. IMHO, the only real way to make HKG work nowadays is to own a place with no mortgage and have no kids, or kids that have flown the nest and are now not dependant on you.
Regarding G days down route, not many of my friends are experiencing it and those that have got them now have 5 day patterns instead of 4. In EK you only get paid for the time you do in the seat whereas in CX you get paid for the whole flight. It seems most airlines (except US carriers) are set on giving pilots min days off and it's becoming the industry norm in most countries sadly.
Dubai is a great place, I loved staying there, its great for a holiday or for visiting friends but to live in that heat 24/7 is not appealing for a lot of people. That doesn't mean HKG is better than DXB or vice versa, it's just some things work for some people and not for others. It's all down to personal choice and whatever choice my peers make is their choice and no one else's business, particularly yours or mine.
Its not a dick measuring competition of who's life/job is better. As I said, its all down to personal preference. I would suggest less anger and mocking as it will take years of your life.
Peace...
Many of my friends who have remained in HK own their condos outright. Yes I left due to the pay cut, my contract was decimated and changed to "policy" but I do not judge my peers who stayed. We all have various reasons for big life decisions that we make and no one is right or wrong.
As I have said, I am not defending CX but merely pointing out to you facts. IMHO, the only real way to make HKG work nowadays is to own a place with no mortgage and have no kids, or kids that have flown the nest and are now not dependant on you.
Regarding G days down route, not many of my friends are experiencing it and those that have got them now have 5 day patterns instead of 4. In EK you only get paid for the time you do in the seat whereas in CX you get paid for the whole flight. It seems most airlines (except US carriers) are set on giving pilots min days off and it's becoming the industry norm in most countries sadly.
Dubai is a great place, I loved staying there, its great for a holiday or for visiting friends but to live in that heat 24/7 is not appealing for a lot of people. That doesn't mean HKG is better than DXB or vice versa, it's just some things work for some people and not for others. It's all down to personal choice and whatever choice my peers make is their choice and no one else's business, particularly yours or mine.
Its not a dick measuring competition of who's life/job is better. As I said, its all down to personal preference. I would suggest less anger and mocking as it will take years of your life.
Peace...
As a correction - at EK you get paid for the entire block time. Not that you need to rely on duty pay because it is much more similar to previous CX, where you’re on a base salary that accounts for the vast majority of your income.
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The avid supporters are back! How quickly you guys forget what we went through with covid.
-POS 18 - yeah productivity pay is amazing but how long you think that will last for? It’s an expense that the company can easily cut. Also what will happen when they recruit enough pilots? Bye bye productivity pay.
- Medical - Yet to hear of any another company that deducts your medical plan HK if you get injured in an outport.
- Schooling - Enjoy the public system. The allowance is laughable for an international school.
- Employee abandonment - Y’all forget how the company sold us out to the government and abandoned our needs, all for the sake to “keep the company moving”. Forgetting the Frankfurt saga so quickly? Guess you weren’t stuck in PB with your family in a shipping container.
How about getting shipped off to PB after a turnaround because you used the same aircraft as someone who was Covid positive, then made to feel like a beggar, asking for basic necessities that the company “doesn’t provide”.
And after all this you still defend the company? It just shows you’re only in a minority group. An employee engagement survey score of -91 tells you all you need to know about the company.
-POS 18 - yeah productivity pay is amazing but how long you think that will last for? It’s an expense that the company can easily cut. Also what will happen when they recruit enough pilots? Bye bye productivity pay.
- Medical - Yet to hear of any another company that deducts your medical plan HK if you get injured in an outport.
- Schooling - Enjoy the public system. The allowance is laughable for an international school.
- Employee abandonment - Y’all forget how the company sold us out to the government and abandoned our needs, all for the sake to “keep the company moving”. Forgetting the Frankfurt saga so quickly? Guess you weren’t stuck in PB with your family in a shipping container.
How about getting shipped off to PB after a turnaround because you used the same aircraft as someone who was Covid positive, then made to feel like a beggar, asking for basic necessities that the company “doesn’t provide”.
And after all this you still defend the company? It just shows you’re only in a minority group. An employee engagement survey score of -91 tells you all you need to know about the company.
If I was an 'avid supporter" I would have returned long ago but I'm enjoying life back home here in California which I will never leave. I had a good run in CX but now is the time to enjoy flying for a major US carrier where we are seeing huge pay increases and have a contract that cant be turned into policy.
May I ask, are you still in HKG?
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If you are referring to me, I'm not an avid supporter by any means and I agree with you, in that the thresholds may not last and can be adjusted as/when CX deem fit. For those that are returning to HKG I don't judge them but I hope they are not basing their return on what productivity others are getting right now, a very dangerous move if so. I also said HKG only works if you have NO children or ones who have left the nest.
If I was an 'avid supporter" I would have returned long ago but I'm enjoying life back home here in California which I will never leave. I had a good run in CX but now is the time to enjoy flying for a major US carrier where we are seeing huge pay increases and have a contract that cant be turned into policy.
May I ask, are you still in HKG?
If I was an 'avid supporter" I would have returned long ago but I'm enjoying life back home here in California which I will never leave. I had a good run in CX but now is the time to enjoy flying for a major US carrier where we are seeing huge pay increases and have a contract that cant be turned into policy.
May I ask, are you still in HKG?
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I think a misunderstanding on your side. Rather than "defending" their employer, I see individuals evaluating their options and conclude the status quo is still more advantageous than the alternatives available. That's all.
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So advantageous that the seniority number is struggling to stay above 2400 pilots? Tell me what you find so advantageous about forking our more money to cover expenses that we’re covered under previous contracts?
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I find your argument illogical. Past losses are not an intrinsic argument.
Think about a stock trade as example. You would hold the stock over alternative available investments if you expect better performance, even if the stock has underperformed in the past.
Now, different stock traders might come to different conclusions regarding future performance of course. Also,not every trader has the same alternative investment options, they have different time lines, different budgets, different risk profiles, different associates etc.
But the principle is always the same.
Think about a stock trade as example. You would hold the stock over alternative available investments if you expect better performance, even if the stock has underperformed in the past.
Now, different stock traders might come to different conclusions regarding future performance of course. Also,not every trader has the same alternative investment options, they have different time lines, different budgets, different risk profiles, different associates etc.
But the principle is always the same.
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I find your argument illogical. Past losses are not an intrinsic argument.
Think about a stock trade as example. You would hold the stock over alternative available investments if you expect better performance, even if the stock has underperformed in the past.
Now, different stock traders might come to different conclusions regarding future performance of course. Also,not every trader has the same alternative investment options, they have different time lines, different budgets, different risk profiles, different associates etc.
But the principle is always the same.
Think about a stock trade as example. You would hold the stock over alternative available investments if you expect better performance, even if the stock has underperformed in the past.
Now, different stock traders might come to different conclusions regarding future performance of course. Also,not every trader has the same alternative investment options, they have different time lines, different budgets, different risk profiles, different associates etc.
But the principle is always the same.
Wow…
I'm no longer in CX mainly due to the pay cut but I can't recall it being 74% for me at CN 4. I'm not defending CX by any means but the presumptions you make are not correct. I have many friends living in condos fully paid off much bigger than 800 sq ft. I myself had a place paid off which was around 1400 sq ft. I was well above threshold nearly every month and I didn't have to fly 106 hours as you mention. I needed to do about 70 to earn the same as my previous contract.
- How many loops did you do to get above the threshold (unless you were on the 747)?
- So how many young B scalers and C scalers have got a place paid off suitable for a family? Not a single one I have flown with recently
Many of my friends who have remained in HK own their condos outright. Yes I left due to the pay cut, my contract was decimated and changed to "policy" but I do not judge my peers who stayed. We all have various reasons for big life decisions that we make and no one is right or wrong.
- Your friends must be all in the top 300 of the seniority list, definitely not a benchmark for the average CX pilot
As I have said, I am not defending CX but merely pointing out to you facts. IMHO, the only real way to make HKG work nowadays is to own a place with no mortgage and have no kids, or kids that have flown the nest and are now not dependant on you.
- Correct, or be a returnee who got his pfund paid out, one annual salary as a good bye present and return on Capt 4 after having NOT experienced the worst two years of HKG ever. Sounds like a great deal.
Regarding G days down route, not many of my friends are experiencing it and those that have got them now have 5 day patterns instead of 4. In EK you only get paid for the time you do in the seat whereas in CX you get paid for the whole flight. It seems most airlines (except US carriers) are set on giving pilots min days off and it's becoming the industry norm in most countries sadly.
Dubai is a great place, I loved staying there, its great for a holiday or for visiting friends but to live in that heat 24/7 is not appealing for a lot of people. That doesn't mean HKG is better than DXB or vice versa, it's just some things work for some people and not for others. It's all down to personal choice and whatever choice my peers make is their choice and no one else's business, particularly yours or mine.
Its not a dick measuring competition of who's life/job is better. As I said, its all down to personal preference. I would suggest less anger and mocking as it will take years of your life.
- Pretty much every pilot with kids in an ESF school is financially &%$#ed - what a great place to be. No wonder literally everyone is trying to get into training so they can become an STC ASAP and make the big bucks.
And the rest…???
I'm no longer in CX mainly due to the pay cut but I can't recall it being 74% for me at CN 4. I'm not defending CX by any means but the presumptions you make are not correct. I have many friends living in condos fully paid off much bigger than 800 sq ft. I myself had a place paid off which was around 1400 sq ft. I was well above threshold nearly every month and I didn't have to fly 106 hours as you mention. I needed to do about 70 to earn the same as my previous contract.
- How many loops did you do to get above the threshold (unless you were on the 747)?
- So how many young B scalers and C scalers have got a place paid off suitable for a family? Not a single one I have flown with recently
Many of my friends who have remained in HK own their condos outright. Yes I left due to the pay cut, my contract was decimated and changed to "policy" but I do not judge my peers who stayed. We all have various reasons for big life decisions that we make and no one is right or wrong.
- Your friends must be all in the top 300 of the seniority list, definitely not a benchmark for the average CX pilot
As I have said, I am not defending CX but merely pointing out to you facts. IMHO, the only real way to make HKG work nowadays is to own a place with no mortgage and have no kids, or kids that have flown the nest and are now not dependant on you.
- Correct, or be a returnee who got his pfund paid out, one annual salary as a good bye present and return on Capt 4 after having NOT experienced the worst two years of HKG ever. Sounds like a great deal.
Regarding G days down route, not many of my friends are experiencing it and those that have got them now have 5 day patterns instead of 4. In EK you only get paid for the time you do in the seat whereas in CX you get paid for the whole flight. It seems most airlines (except US carriers) are set on giving pilots min days off and it's becoming the industry norm in most countries sadly.
Dubai is a great place, I loved staying there, its great for a holiday or for visiting friends but to live in that heat 24/7 is not appealing for a lot of people. That doesn't mean HKG is better than DXB or vice versa, it's just some things work for some people and not for others. It's all down to personal choice and whatever choice my peers make is their choice and no one else's business, particularly yours or mine.
Its not a dick measuring competition of who's life/job is better. As I said, its all down to personal preference. I would suggest less anger and mocking as it will take years of your life.
- Pretty much every pilot with kids in an ESF school is financially &%$#ed - what a great place to be. No wonder literally everyone is trying to get into training so they can become an STC ASAP and make the big bucks.
And the rest…???
Last edited by AQIS Boigu; 1st Aug 2023 at 19:17.
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However, I understand and respect your points and you are right, a lot of my friends are very senior.
It all sounds a terrible mess over there right now and I hope it gets better for those who remained or have returned.
