Dont Apply To Cathay
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Dont Apply To Cathay
Pilots
There are plenty of posts out there talking of issues within Cathay. This company is in desperate need of pilots. Do not come here. The reasons to stay away are plainly stated throughout this site. Cathay’s hubris will not let them recover in any meaningful way. As they expand their net to get more pilots do not be lulled into coming here: it is in no way worth it. Gone are the Halcyon days of big money and bases. Worse yet, they have been given the answer to the problem but refuse to act. It’s sad to see a once great airline ruined by ego.
Forewarned
There are plenty of posts out there talking of issues within Cathay. This company is in desperate need of pilots. Do not come here. The reasons to stay away are plainly stated throughout this site. Cathay’s hubris will not let them recover in any meaningful way. As they expand their net to get more pilots do not be lulled into coming here: it is in no way worth it. Gone are the Halcyon days of big money and bases. Worse yet, they have been given the answer to the problem but refuse to act. It’s sad to see a once great airline ruined by ego.
Forewarned
Last edited by Apollo19; 29th Dec 2018 at 00:55.
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Pilots
There are plenty of posts out there talking of issues within Cathay. This company is in desperate need of pilots. Do not come here. The reasons to stay away are plainly stated throughout this site. Cathay’s hubris will not let them recover in any meaningful way. As they expand their net to get more pilots do not be lulled into coming here: it is in no way worth it. Gone are the Halcyon days of big money and bases. Worse yet, they have been given the answer to the problem but refuse to act.
Forewarned
There are plenty of posts out there talking of issues within Cathay. This company is in desperate need of pilots. Do not come here. The reasons to stay away are plainly stated throughout this site. Cathay’s hubris will not let them recover in any meaningful way. As they expand their net to get more pilots do not be lulled into coming here: it is in no way worth it. Gone are the Halcyon days of big money and bases. Worse yet, they have been given the answer to the problem but refuse to act.
Forewarned
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Indeed, young inexperienced pilots don’t come to CX, you may need or want a job that pays well and gives you valuable experience and CX is the place. But if you come you will ruin it for the poor old A/B scale guys desperate to bank more money, buy more houses and feather there nest for retirement. Think about them when you selflessly turn down you job at CX.
Staggers : A real measure of the "old CX" would be if you remember/experienced the 3 hour Noel Jones debriefs!!! I only experienced it once on command training and it almost resulted in a physical response.
Staggers : A real measure of the "old CX" would be if you remember/experienced the 3 hour Noel Jones debriefs!!! I only experienced it once on command training and it almost resulted in a physical response.
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I feel like your message would be better received by pilots aspiring to work at Cathay (at least DESO/DEFO's) if it was communicated more like this: "Don't apply to Cathay. We have been fighting for better working conditions for far too long now. We need more pressure on the company which is made easier if people stop applying. This is for YOUR direct benefit because once the resumes stop piling in for long enough, the company will have no choice but to raise the pay and improve conditions. At that point, you'd be smart to think about applying again because this company was and can be a great place to work if things are changed. The current pay and conditions make it difficult/borderline impossible to live in a 500 square foot apartment and the majority of the contract is amendable at the company's discretion, including pay and benefits which will no doubt be decreased. There is much room for improvement and you stand to directly benefit from not applying or at the very least not accepting an offer until a better contract is presented to the pilot group (unless you're scud running a 1900 in Mali getting bombed every night...)."
Start making it about them, not you, and you'll find much more support. I'm on your side, but you guys need to re-read your posts before you send them and to think about how it would have come across to yourself years ago when when you were applying to the airline. If you guys aren't willing to strike, the only thing you can really do to make things better is to try to convince people that working at CX shouldn't be something that's desirable. It shouldn't be that hard to do, but I'll take a wild guess that tons of people are still flocking to HK given that the company feels confident in offering COS18. The cadets are another story though. I wouldn't doubt it if, for a lot of them, COS18 is an upgrade in life or at least on par since most of them are just finishing high school/university. They don't have a ton of choices in HK aviation wise with no experience, and they do not have GA/regionals like in OZ, USA, Canada. Labour laws make it impossible to go to another country for experience unless they hold dual citizenship. I'd assume that most of them are applying to CX because they love flying, which I'm sure most of you did too at some point in your life. My guess is that the only way you could get across to someone like that is to tell them how Cathay has destroyed your love for flying in a relatable way, because it'll be hard to find sympathy from them when talking about how much you're paid.
Sincerely,
Someone who will no longer apply unless things are improved.
Start making it about them, not you, and you'll find much more support. I'm on your side, but you guys need to re-read your posts before you send them and to think about how it would have come across to yourself years ago when when you were applying to the airline. If you guys aren't willing to strike, the only thing you can really do to make things better is to try to convince people that working at CX shouldn't be something that's desirable. It shouldn't be that hard to do, but I'll take a wild guess that tons of people are still flocking to HK given that the company feels confident in offering COS18. The cadets are another story though. I wouldn't doubt it if, for a lot of them, COS18 is an upgrade in life or at least on par since most of them are just finishing high school/university. They don't have a ton of choices in HK aviation wise with no experience, and they do not have GA/regionals like in OZ, USA, Canada. Labour laws make it impossible to go to another country for experience unless they hold dual citizenship. I'd assume that most of them are applying to CX because they love flying, which I'm sure most of you did too at some point in your life. My guess is that the only way you could get across to someone like that is to tell them how Cathay has destroyed your love for flying in a relatable way, because it'll be hard to find sympathy from them when talking about how much you're paid.
Sincerely,
Someone who will no longer apply unless things are improved.
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I have a request: to Apollo19 and others - please name a company which is hiring now and offer good work conditions. When reading PPRUNE my impression is that this is worst time to become a pilot ever.
However the whole reason I am even on this forum is because if I compare current job market to what I could see throughout my entire life now it is best time ever to get hired. And if Cathay is hiring - I would go there in a heartbeat. Again - if not there - WHERE?
&
However the whole reason I am even on this forum is because if I compare current job market to what I could see throughout my entire life now it is best time ever to get hired. And if Cathay is hiring - I would go there in a heartbeat. Again - if not there - WHERE?
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Forty three...and you want to be sitting as an SO for up to 5 years, with no flying, and on a package that will barely allow you a modest lifestyle (with a family, forget it). Ok, come on in...the water is lovely 
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I would submit that, when cost of living is considered, many US regionals would offer more (real) flying experience, better pay (what you need to make depends entirely on where you live), real work rules, CASS/KCM, and a better future and lifestyle. Probably being more fun and a better work environment to boot. Even better with the majors.
You might not get a shiny new jet (although many are) and will spend more time actually working (i.e. actually flying). You won't get to galavant around Asia and CX generally takes better care of you on the road.
So it depends on what you are looking for. If barely eeking by living in a shoebox and watching air go by (facing declining future conditions as different factions of your workforce are divided against each other and conquered) is for you by all means have a go. Things ain't gonna get better until the healing begins--there's no indication of this ever happening (indeed the wounds from the early 2000s were never addressed and have continued to fester and get worse with the various purges not helping things).
In fact, I think the only thing that's really changed for the better is information availability of what someone is getting themselves into.
You might not get a shiny new jet (although many are) and will spend more time actually working (i.e. actually flying). You won't get to galavant around Asia and CX generally takes better care of you on the road.
So it depends on what you are looking for. If barely eeking by living in a shoebox and watching air go by (facing declining future conditions as different factions of your workforce are divided against each other and conquered) is for you by all means have a go. Things ain't gonna get better until the healing begins--there's no indication of this ever happening (indeed the wounds from the early 2000s were never addressed and have continued to fester and get worse with the various purges not helping things).
In fact, I think the only thing that's really changed for the better is information availability of what someone is getting themselves into.
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I did my interview about 6 months ago and I was offered a DEFO position on the B747. Anyway, after I did my math I realized this package is not worth to relocate on the other side of the world to be working as an FO for at least 15 years.
HK is a very nice, fun and international city but if you don't have money forget even to barely reach the quality life you had back in Europe. Apart from the expensive houses and the bad quality you get in return, what shocked me most was the costs for food. My wife and I went around a few grocery shops and we were surprised by what we found out, expensive products and not always the first choice. Also if you looking at dining out in a good restaurant you would pay at least 40% more than what you are used back home. Anyway if you can live eating mostly Chinese products of doubtful origin you will be fine.
On top of this with Cos18 is not clear if you can commute home or any base abroad would be available in the future so plan to be living in HK the rest of your life.
Long story short HK can be a great place to live if you have enough money, Cos18 doesn't give you enough money or opportunity for a quality life (commuting)
For those of you asking which other companies offer better working conditions if you are a FO go to places like EasyJet and in 4 years you'll get your command having a great quality life if you are a CPT go to China 8 years there and than you can plan for an early retirement. It's very sad to have to compare a once elite Airline with those places but this is what it is.
Sorry for the rant and good luck everybody
HK is a very nice, fun and international city but if you don't have money forget even to barely reach the quality life you had back in Europe. Apart from the expensive houses and the bad quality you get in return, what shocked me most was the costs for food. My wife and I went around a few grocery shops and we were surprised by what we found out, expensive products and not always the first choice. Also if you looking at dining out in a good restaurant you would pay at least 40% more than what you are used back home. Anyway if you can live eating mostly Chinese products of doubtful origin you will be fine.
On top of this with Cos18 is not clear if you can commute home or any base abroad would be available in the future so plan to be living in HK the rest of your life.
Long story short HK can be a great place to live if you have enough money, Cos18 doesn't give you enough money or opportunity for a quality life (commuting)
For those of you asking which other companies offer better working conditions if you are a FO go to places like EasyJet and in 4 years you'll get your command having a great quality life if you are a CPT go to China 8 years there and than you can plan for an early retirement. It's very sad to have to compare a once elite Airline with those places but this is what it is.
Sorry for the rant and good luck everybody
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Slasher, US is out of reach for Cathay new-joiners.
I haven't seen a Green Card holder among cadets or DFO for more than 10 years. Those who do join are from countries with extremely low pay or with zero experience. Which is the reason why advocating not to join is useless. I flew with one guy recently who was very pleased he could go on a trip without worrying about the safety of his family. Go figure.
Pfly3, I agree, DFO on COS18 with a secured job in Europe probably difficult to sell. Maybe if your wife can work in HK as well or you like to live in South East Asia. What I don't understand :why the rant? You received a job offer, nobody is forcing you to accept it. I have doubts you are what you say, the type of anger you display is typically only achieved after joining and a few years in the company :-))
Anyway, the main recruitment into Cathay is via the cadet scheme, DFO's are a thing of the past.
I haven't seen a Green Card holder among cadets or DFO for more than 10 years. Those who do join are from countries with extremely low pay or with zero experience. Which is the reason why advocating not to join is useless. I flew with one guy recently who was very pleased he could go on a trip without worrying about the safety of his family. Go figure.
Pfly3, I agree, DFO on COS18 with a secured job in Europe probably difficult to sell. Maybe if your wife can work in HK as well or you like to live in South East Asia. What I don't understand :why the rant? You received a job offer, nobody is forcing you to accept it. I have doubts you are what you say, the type of anger you display is typically only achieved after joining and a few years in the company :-))
Anyway, the main recruitment into Cathay is via the cadet scheme, DFO's are a thing of the past.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 4th Jan 2019 at 09:53.
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