CX Cabin Service
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Unfortunately, as the front-line of Cathay's customer service, they are now damaging the brand and it is having an a detrimental effect. By way of only a teeny-tiny example, my wife recently travelled from Oz to the UK and back with CX. She was in J and the price was very competitive. Not the cheapest but we thought it was worth paying the extra for the imagined improved cabin service over the other, cheaper, players. Well, that was a decision we regret and Cathay have lost another customer. I know, I know, don't let the door etc. The thing is, my wife is one of the least demanding people you will ever meet and yet she could not muster one good word to say about the Cathay experience. Several of the comments already made here were included in her description of the flights, including the lacklustre meal services, the amazing ability of the cabin crew to disappear, the sighing and tutting when she had the temerity to ask for more water (what on earth was she thinking) and the distinct impression that she was being done a HUGE favour when the crew deigned to do their job. It's something you'd expect of an American airline and certainly not one based in the Far East. Anyway, yesterday we were talking about an upcoming trip and I'd researched the various prices again. Cathay was immediately crossed off the list, with the only comment being, "I'm not travelling with them again".
Once again, like I have said its not just isolated examples, but a general trend that the service is going downhill. I am embarrassed on behalf of cx.
Another example, a CC posted on facebook
CX566! Japan again. 很期待snack box service 啊 ......15分鐘應該可以K.O 200 位passenger 吧?? — at Cathay City 國泰城.
For the benefit of those who can't understand, its - "I am so excited about the (new) snack box service! Should be able to K.O. 200 pax within 15min!" Is this Service Straight From The Heart? The CC is more excited about the reduced time serving food! Wow, good job cx on the people you recruit.
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Front line staff are cannon fodder,their hands are tied.
Every flight spent apologising to pax about service limitations or busted IFE.
But LF is so high dosen't anybody care?
Every flight spent apologising to pax about service limitations or busted IFE.
But LF is so high dosen't anybody care?
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I think you missed out the point that Pontius' wife was merely asking for water.
And talking about front line staff, the cashier at Wellcome is frontline, the guys at your hotel lobby are frontline, the teller counting money at the bank over the counter is frontline, the security man at your building is frontline... Come on there are many tougher jobs out there, front line.
And talking about front line staff, the cashier at Wellcome is frontline, the guys at your hotel lobby are frontline, the teller counting money at the bank over the counter is frontline, the security man at your building is frontline... Come on there are many tougher jobs out there, front line.
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Very well said Soul Planet. All front-line jobs are tough, so stop making excuses for poor service, due to high LF, demanding customers, and lack of rest. Once you are on the front-line, you should at least act more professionally.
Since the extra rest time given to the cabin crew on long haul still produces a service with attitude, maybe management should cut back the extra time - it will save on the allowances and hotel costs.
Since the extra rest time given to the cabin crew on long haul still produces a service with attitude, maybe management should cut back the extra time - it will save on the allowances and hotel costs.
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Double the allowance and double the rest, and they still complain about wanting more money whilst never reflecting on their service. I mean which other front line staff get to stay a couple of days in the hotel they can never afford in?
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Are you kidding me? I'd rather do my own stuff on a layover. No one is imploring anything and many men with pay check like ours are smart enough not to. Also, many pilots have great wives and girlfriends at home, so please cut that out, last thing they want to do is socialize with iPhone addicts who mostly can't speak proper English. We are not as desperate as Hong Kong girls.
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I am not sure why are you taking it so personal because we, here, are directing to the services presented to us in the cabin, and comparing it as opposed to the "smile" we were promised with by cx commercial on tv, but lack of motivation and lack of willingness to provide premium services (including sighing and tutting when asked for ... water?) are experienced by many, including fellow aviators and their families, if you have read.
My intentions are to engage in a proper discussion here. Anyhow, my girlfriend has just graduated from her Law PPCL in Sydney and so sorry, I am (including many pilots of a sane mind) not any bit interested in picking up any BCs. We have loving wives and girlfriends and oh, do you even know anything about cx culture? Since you are discussing it on a more personal level, let me share an anecdote here - shared with by my friend's sister after I discussed this thread with her.
She used to be close friends with an ex cc, X. They were in the dancing society at school. X has always been vicious in meeting well off men after failing a couple of relationships. because in a city like Hong Kong, it's hard to find happiness, or lets say enjoy happiness and love without money, to watch movies, dine out, buy gifts etc. almost 2 years ago she decided that why not cast a net among the new SOs - new to HK and what a load of paycheck by local standard. X eventually got jilted by almost 5 guys before returning to the very first guy, Y, whom she pigeon-holed. She believed that he was desperate enough to take her as he wanted a girlfriend to settle down. Alongside, X slept with Y's friend, the very guy she wanted to have as her boyfriend, but needless to say he didn't want to comply. Taking whatever that comes, X, soon moved into Y's and got showered with gifts every now and then. She had never had such a generous guy showering her with gifts all the time, all her vacations included. At one point, X even requested Y to put her under his travel companion name, despite the fact that she could id travel as a cc. My friend's sister thought it was ludicrous! They soon moved far away to a house closer to work and he bought a car, X had never been happier because how many people get to live in a house in HK? X didn't really have many close friends, considering the fact that she enjoys flaunting about Y's wealth or perhaps it's a normal among hkg girlfriends. X clinged onto the chances of meeting more pilots because she wanted to be in a new and better social circle. Last year, she resigned from cx and decided she could launch her career somewhere else but it did not transpire. So she proposed to Y into opening a cafe of her own on an outlying islands by Lantau. She could not do so on her own. My friend's sisters and mutual friends did not apprehend why would Y bestow all his money on her venture, which is very likely to fail. The sister is no longer close to X because X has distant herself from her old friends. She met Y a couple of times but above all, more worried and uncomfortable about the relationship. One of the many.
But just picture this in a city like Hong Kong - it makes my stomach sick how this place has evolved and how the people have transposed. It's pure sadness how interaction between people and relationships are more superficial than anything else (4 years after i'd left and returned to hkg from UNSW). Nothing against hkg and I like it as my family is here, but I am not sure for years ahead or to have my children brought up here, I am bewildered.
My intentions are to engage in a proper discussion here. Anyhow, my girlfriend has just graduated from her Law PPCL in Sydney and so sorry, I am (including many pilots of a sane mind) not any bit interested in picking up any BCs. We have loving wives and girlfriends and oh, do you even know anything about cx culture? Since you are discussing it on a more personal level, let me share an anecdote here - shared with by my friend's sister after I discussed this thread with her.
She used to be close friends with an ex cc, X. They were in the dancing society at school. X has always been vicious in meeting well off men after failing a couple of relationships. because in a city like Hong Kong, it's hard to find happiness, or lets say enjoy happiness and love without money, to watch movies, dine out, buy gifts etc. almost 2 years ago she decided that why not cast a net among the new SOs - new to HK and what a load of paycheck by local standard. X eventually got jilted by almost 5 guys before returning to the very first guy, Y, whom she pigeon-holed. She believed that he was desperate enough to take her as he wanted a girlfriend to settle down. Alongside, X slept with Y's friend, the very guy she wanted to have as her boyfriend, but needless to say he didn't want to comply. Taking whatever that comes, X, soon moved into Y's and got showered with gifts every now and then. She had never had such a generous guy showering her with gifts all the time, all her vacations included. At one point, X even requested Y to put her under his travel companion name, despite the fact that she could id travel as a cc. My friend's sister thought it was ludicrous! They soon moved far away to a house closer to work and he bought a car, X had never been happier because how many people get to live in a house in HK? X didn't really have many close friends, considering the fact that she enjoys flaunting about Y's wealth or perhaps it's a normal among hkg girlfriends. X clinged onto the chances of meeting more pilots because she wanted to be in a new and better social circle. Last year, she resigned from cx and decided she could launch her career somewhere else but it did not transpire. So she proposed to Y into opening a cafe of her own on an outlying islands by Lantau. She could not do so on her own. My friend's sisters and mutual friends did not apprehend why would Y bestow all his money on her venture, which is very likely to fail. The sister is no longer close to X because X has distant herself from her old friends. She met Y a couple of times but above all, more worried and uncomfortable about the relationship. One of the many.
But just picture this in a city like Hong Kong - it makes my stomach sick how this place has evolved and how the people have transposed. It's pure sadness how interaction between people and relationships are more superficial than anything else (4 years after i'd left and returned to hkg from UNSW). Nothing against hkg and I like it as my family is here, but I am not sure for years ahead or to have my children brought up here, I am bewildered.
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Pontius..good post and reflects what many bona fide pax experience frequently. I believe that CX has lost many of their original long term accounts due to poor client management performance and the hubris that IS CX. In a previous post, the omnipresent CXExorcist, whilst appreciating his non pilot management peers as the doyens of continued Airline success, appears to forget that its the passenger and his/her experience that dictates repeat custom. Out of HKG, Oz and UK, I hear time and time again that the CX experience was poor.. from check in, the non assistance to single mothers and their kids, poor cabin service and the terrible EY food, ( we are told to watch the potential of DVT but we get fed a diet of rubbish)....and yes, all those obsequious PA's to boot. Even the cleanliness of the cabin is in doubt, with 777 carpets showing multiple stains, particularly in EY..and who in management chose such high vis material?..a pilot manager, embedded in the higher audits of decision making would make a lot of sense...one appointed on merit.
So, maybe the muppets at Skytrax could conduct another survey; one that shows the airline receiving the most passenger defections from CX?? At a guess, I think that may just be BA!
...and CXEx..never forget that it was a couple of pilot 'managers" that conceived and built the airline you work for..and indeed, similar models did precisely the same and one wonders if we would have been in a better and healthier position if this had remained the same? Then, they were leaders in the real sense. Mostly male pilots who we would happily go over the top for as opposed to the gutless self improvers we see now, where the word leadership has little or no meaning. Pilot managers should always have been appointed on merit, NOT as a result of personal gain or ego. In BA, these guys are generally head hunted from within and whilst its still not perfect in their crib, morale amongst crews..flight deck crews, is more than a tadge better than CX and KA.
So, maybe the muppets at Skytrax could conduct another survey; one that shows the airline receiving the most passenger defections from CX?? At a guess, I think that may just be BA!
...and CXEx..never forget that it was a couple of pilot 'managers" that conceived and built the airline you work for..and indeed, similar models did precisely the same and one wonders if we would have been in a better and healthier position if this had remained the same? Then, they were leaders in the real sense. Mostly male pilots who we would happily go over the top for as opposed to the gutless self improvers we see now, where the word leadership has little or no meaning. Pilot managers should always have been appointed on merit, NOT as a result of personal gain or ego. In BA, these guys are generally head hunted from within and whilst its still not perfect in their crib, morale amongst crews..flight deck crews, is more than a tadge better than CX and KA.
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I don't know why the original thread starter put a line of 5 years to his argument. I think the service has been on a downward trend for the last 10+ years, and I don't see the trend reversing. I see it getting a lot, lot worse. I've flown KE and TG and OZ recently, and they all put CX cabin product to shame. The KE 380 EY cabin is like Premium CX product. CX are quite simply losing the war. The TG crew were phenomenal. In fact... these were probably the same gals that CX would have been hiring 10 years ago, but apparently CX does most of its hiring from Tin Shui Wai these days.
I recall flying CX in the late 90s and the service was incomparable. In fact, I remember writing on a feedback card once something to the effect of, with EY service like this, who needs a business class. The service was topnotch. It was my first time flying with Cathay and I had flown with KE, OZ, JL before and lots of European and American carriers, and no one could touch them. KE service back then was more rigid and the KE CA's spoke near zero English and were about as friendly as dead fish. JL left me indifferent... I think the Japanese rate JL so high simply because the crew speak Japanese and bow a lot. CX back then were the perfect mix. A range of crew from all over Asia, all smiles, all working hard, got drink refills without ordering, used my name (in EY), simply put, perfect pax experience. Then top it all off with a Kaitak night landing. Memorable flights every time.
It's hardly the same airline today.
Broadly speaking... I see a wide range of reasons, but it all traces back to one route cause: management. Example... everyone who's been with CX over a decade remembers when Cathay were actively recruiting crew from over 14 countries. I remember a crew composition list once and quite nearly every country had anywhere from 6-8% representation of crew back in the 90s, Hong Kong had a few more percent, but not by much. At some point CX stopped actively recruiting foreign CA's with the exception of bare minimum number of CA's from a few key countries for their language requirements; Korea, Japan, and most recently India again. But nowhere near in numbers they used to. The point is not to go off on another rant bashing Hongkie girls. The point is, for a lot of girls from other countries the perception of a CX job as being a big prestigious thing was a lot more relevant, and so they treat the job as such. You move from Sri Lanka, or Manilla, Mumbai, or Taegu, or Bangkok, or Taipei, to Hong Kong to take a job... that's a big thing. For some of them in terms of salaries too. They had a better perception of the job, and treated it accordingly.
It's relatively easy for any Hongkie to land a job as a CX CA, so they approach the job with the same mentality. Easy come, easy go. But what was more disturbing was getting a look behind the training process of CX's CA lately. I think the CX cabin crew training strikes out on every conceivable front. Start with your trainers. In any organization, who are your trainers? And how are they rewarded? I had always thought being a trainer was a recognition of excellence and accumulated experience. CX cabin crew trainers are actually punished for opting to be trainers. They actually lose money for choosing to go to training school, and their chance of being promoted is actually harmed because their CPP scores nosedive. Thank you management. The trainers can actually invest zero time imprinting anything of value on the new crew. The training schedule doesn't allow it. The training schedule is a variety of modules that basically focus on teaching the new crew how to shovel food the CX way. And you're surprised that's what's showing up in the cabin? Look at this way... the crew themselves are treated like meals that need to be shoveled out as fast as possible. How are they not supposed to think of the job that way? Here's a real laugher.... a lot of the training has been slapped onto disks and the trainees are supposed to "home school" themselves. Have a good laugh every time I hear about CX's "excellent training program" for CA's. FAIL.
In a nutshell... the CA job was a quasi prestigious job for a lot of young girls from all over Asia that was much sought after in the 80s and 90s. The crew hotels were topnotch, the training pre-internet age was actually face-to-face with an emphasis on service excellence, and their salaries stretched a lot further. Fast forward 10-some years.... all of Asia has become more prosperous, the CA job has lost a bit of its luster, the Hong Kong dollar has lost half of its purchasing power, in outport you've moved from 5-star hotels to airport motels and seen days cut off of every outport stay, you're teaching yourself at home from a CD-Rom. And you're saying you think service has gone downhill? ROFL.
CX has gone from a small airline that offered a high end product to being a shuttle bus for mainlanders with more money than they know what to do with. BUT... record profits. Just not for the crew who have invested 10+ years of their lives in the company, have seen near zero increase in their wages over the same period, have seen their purchasing power cut in half while prices in the city for everything from a bowl of rice to flats have nearly doubled. Management don't see CA's as a value-adding asset except for the billboards that tout "the face of CX." In reality, management consider crew as a financial liability and treat them accordingly. You get what you pay for.
I recall flying CX in the late 90s and the service was incomparable. In fact, I remember writing on a feedback card once something to the effect of, with EY service like this, who needs a business class. The service was topnotch. It was my first time flying with Cathay and I had flown with KE, OZ, JL before and lots of European and American carriers, and no one could touch them. KE service back then was more rigid and the KE CA's spoke near zero English and were about as friendly as dead fish. JL left me indifferent... I think the Japanese rate JL so high simply because the crew speak Japanese and bow a lot. CX back then were the perfect mix. A range of crew from all over Asia, all smiles, all working hard, got drink refills without ordering, used my name (in EY), simply put, perfect pax experience. Then top it all off with a Kaitak night landing. Memorable flights every time.
It's hardly the same airline today.
Broadly speaking... I see a wide range of reasons, but it all traces back to one route cause: management. Example... everyone who's been with CX over a decade remembers when Cathay were actively recruiting crew from over 14 countries. I remember a crew composition list once and quite nearly every country had anywhere from 6-8% representation of crew back in the 90s, Hong Kong had a few more percent, but not by much. At some point CX stopped actively recruiting foreign CA's with the exception of bare minimum number of CA's from a few key countries for their language requirements; Korea, Japan, and most recently India again. But nowhere near in numbers they used to. The point is not to go off on another rant bashing Hongkie girls. The point is, for a lot of girls from other countries the perception of a CX job as being a big prestigious thing was a lot more relevant, and so they treat the job as such. You move from Sri Lanka, or Manilla, Mumbai, or Taegu, or Bangkok, or Taipei, to Hong Kong to take a job... that's a big thing. For some of them in terms of salaries too. They had a better perception of the job, and treated it accordingly.
It's relatively easy for any Hongkie to land a job as a CX CA, so they approach the job with the same mentality. Easy come, easy go. But what was more disturbing was getting a look behind the training process of CX's CA lately. I think the CX cabin crew training strikes out on every conceivable front. Start with your trainers. In any organization, who are your trainers? And how are they rewarded? I had always thought being a trainer was a recognition of excellence and accumulated experience. CX cabin crew trainers are actually punished for opting to be trainers. They actually lose money for choosing to go to training school, and their chance of being promoted is actually harmed because their CPP scores nosedive. Thank you management. The trainers can actually invest zero time imprinting anything of value on the new crew. The training schedule doesn't allow it. The training schedule is a variety of modules that basically focus on teaching the new crew how to shovel food the CX way. And you're surprised that's what's showing up in the cabin? Look at this way... the crew themselves are treated like meals that need to be shoveled out as fast as possible. How are they not supposed to think of the job that way? Here's a real laugher.... a lot of the training has been slapped onto disks and the trainees are supposed to "home school" themselves. Have a good laugh every time I hear about CX's "excellent training program" for CA's. FAIL.
In a nutshell... the CA job was a quasi prestigious job for a lot of young girls from all over Asia that was much sought after in the 80s and 90s. The crew hotels were topnotch, the training pre-internet age was actually face-to-face with an emphasis on service excellence, and their salaries stretched a lot further. Fast forward 10-some years.... all of Asia has become more prosperous, the CA job has lost a bit of its luster, the Hong Kong dollar has lost half of its purchasing power, in outport you've moved from 5-star hotels to airport motels and seen days cut off of every outport stay, you're teaching yourself at home from a CD-Rom. And you're saying you think service has gone downhill? ROFL.
CX has gone from a small airline that offered a high end product to being a shuttle bus for mainlanders with more money than they know what to do with. BUT... record profits. Just not for the crew who have invested 10+ years of their lives in the company, have seen near zero increase in their wages over the same period, have seen their purchasing power cut in half while prices in the city for everything from a bowl of rice to flats have nearly doubled. Management don't see CA's as a value-adding asset except for the billboards that tout "the face of CX." In reality, management consider crew as a financial liability and treat them accordingly. You get what you pay for.
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X slept with Y and Z slept with X. Sounds like a Californication-syle orgy to me...anyway...who gives a sh#t.
Upshot - Cathay has stopped hiring funky, good-looking Asians from Pakistan to Japan and has recently hired nothing but Hong Kong Chinese birds. The based girls are different of course, but there isn't many of them.
Result - Average looks, well-above-average "attitude" (bad that is) and well-below-average, Hong-Kong-style, two-star restaurant customer service. It's not more complicated than that.
Solution - Actively hire attractive, young ASIANS from all over ASIA and teach them how to serve the customer properly. Cull low performers immediately. Cull those with bad attitudes ruthlessly. Oh, and pay them more than pawpers.
Upshot - Cathay has stopped hiring funky, good-looking Asians from Pakistan to Japan and has recently hired nothing but Hong Kong Chinese birds. The based girls are different of course, but there isn't many of them.
Result - Average looks, well-above-average "attitude" (bad that is) and well-below-average, Hong-Kong-style, two-star restaurant customer service. It's not more complicated than that.
Solution - Actively hire attractive, young ASIANS from all over ASIA and teach them how to serve the customer properly. Cull low performers immediately. Cull those with bad attitudes ruthlessly. Oh, and pay them more than pawpers.
Last edited by californication; 9th Apr 2013 at 04:17.
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Californication, seems like you know nothing about the industry. Haha continue to be a joke here then.
Shutterbug, I agree fully. KE and JL economy class were awesome! Genuine people providing excellent service. Never found in hkg.
Shutterbug, I agree fully. KE and JL economy class were awesome! Genuine people providing excellent service. Never found in hkg.
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Stop moaning, the reality -what ever the quality of service ppl still fly CX.
300 pax, 2 complain so what,next!
And yup the attitude is: you're welcome to try those a fore mentioned rivals.
In fact please give them go. Really an amazing experience.
300 pax, 2 complain so what,next!
And yup the attitude is: you're welcome to try those a fore mentioned rivals.
In fact please give them go. Really an amazing experience.
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General trend and direction and overall quality of service, all items are unfortunately going downhill with time no matter what you say, 2 complains, 3 complains each flight. You can have zero complain and pax can still hate the deteriorating service. Just like you don't like to shop at Park'n'Shop, you don't necessary need to complain, you just know, and start shopping at Wellcome.
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Thank you Shutterbug, you summed it up concisely and perfectly. You are dead on about the trainers. Choosing to be a trainer is actually choosing a dead end on the career path. The training department is seen as an cost item. I don't know if the HKCAD will allow it ... if allow, maybe in the future CX will outsource the cabin service altogether.
5 years ago, I took CX for the first time and was quite impressed by its cabin service. Comparing today to 5 years ago, I can see a marked difference (in a negative way). Maybe if I had the chance to take CX in the 80s/90s, I would have been abhorred by the service 5 years ago.
Point is that service levels are going down - fast, while others in the region are rapidly rising. Sooner or later, the customers will vote with the wallets. If I know there is a very little chance of getting business class with CX, I will spend a little extra and use my ID90 travel on a competitor, on the same route.
5 years ago, I took CX for the first time and was quite impressed by its cabin service. Comparing today to 5 years ago, I can see a marked difference (in a negative way). Maybe if I had the chance to take CX in the 80s/90s, I would have been abhorred by the service 5 years ago.
Point is that service levels are going down - fast, while others in the region are rapidly rising. Sooner or later, the customers will vote with the wallets. If I know there is a very little chance of getting business class with CX, I will spend a little extra and use my ID90 travel on a competitor, on the same route.