Marshall vs. Cathay Pacific Management

[coonabarabran]

How Corporations Create False Paper Trails To Cover Up (Marshall vs. Cathay Pacific Management) | SebastianMarshall.com: Strategy, Philosophy, Self-Discipline, Science. Victory.

[Hedo Rick]

Although he seems a little eccentric in his video he does have a valid argument.

It's worth reading the links on his site that sum up the confrontation with the cabin crew. Usual CX Muppet factor and booking stuff up.

Lucky for him he recorded the entire argument before they threw him off the plane and sent him to the police station!

[Oval3Holer]

Here's the first of the series:

FIGHT CORPORATE VIOLENCE: Marshall vs. Cathay Pacific Management | SebastianMarshall.com: Strategy, Philosophy, Self-Discipline, Science. Victory.

He hits the nail on the head.

[boofta]

The hairy avenger of truth justice and the american way.
I am american, I can position myself in business class
if I choose and you cannot touch me,I am american.
I will pay you later for the upgrade,trust me, i am
american.
Get a haircut,get a job, go home and collect the food
stamps you will be needing to survive, and stay out
of business class if you can't pay upfront.Try the
same rubbish in america, the cops will eventually
remove you there too. Sue the world, your entitled.

[404 Titan]

boofta

I couldn’t agree more. This f*****g feral is what is wrong with this world today. I personally feel sorry for the ground staff who has to put up with this type of BS. I had the pleasure a few months ago frog marching some guy who claimed to be a Saudi prince back down to economy where he was suppose to be seated. Stupid fool plonked himself down in 1K out o HK, right next to the crew rest seat and refused to move when the cabin crew asked him to move. Only problem for him was I wasn’t so diplomatic.

[badairsucker]

Good on ya 404,

The art of telling some of these imbeciles a few home truths seems to be disappearing in this politically correct world we live in.

[Flaps10]

[flyboy007]

He appears at first glance, to be a first class tugger.

[Sebastian Marshall]

Hi guys,

I'm Sebastian Marshall, I'm the guy that got violently dragged off the airplane.

Thanks for discussing me here.

A few points -

*They screwed up multiple times in the day.
*I asked to speak to a manager while the flight was still boarding.
*He threatened me when I told them they made mistakes.
*I asked him to put that in writing or on audio.
*He then called the police instead of addressing me.

The pilot came out and spoke with me, he was kind of amused by the whole situation. I said, "Hi pilot, sorry about this, Asia is kind of ****** up huh? This guy just threatens me when I ask him to put his bad decision in writing, and then calls the police instead of talking to me."

He was amused, we chatted in a friendly way, and so on.

Mind you, I got violently dragged off a plane, and no charges were brought against me. That should tell you something...

Also, please note that Cathay management fired the 49 pilots that enforced safety standards at Cathay (the "49ers case", you can see it on Wikipedia), and perjured themselves in that case.

Maybe I could have handled this more elegantly, but you should know where I'm at - I worked for 30 days straight, between 6 and 22 hours per day every day. I was brought in to build an educational services company in Beijing, I was putting together marketing events between a top jeweler and a top hotel chain, I put together a team to put out a book in one week (

Ikigai

Ikigai

, it's gotten great reviews, all of my share of profits goes to charity, check it out - people are saying it's life-changing), and I'm trying to build an orphanage in Ulaanbaatar. (I hired an architect, and will try to meet the Mongolian Ambassador to the PRC when I get back to China.)

So I'm quite busy. Then I get to PEK and Cathay screws up my booking and no one wants to fix it. I pay more money to upgrade again, they screw up again, and then some power-tripping loser threatens violence on me for saying his company made a mistake? I said, "Put it in writing, or on recorded audio, and I'll do what you want." He called the police instead.

...and here we are. I'll stand up for pilots, for cabin crew, for passengers, and for the police. Maybe I come across a little abrasive - I understand that, if I do - but it's because I'm moving fast and trying to change the world.

Thank you for discussing this, and best wishes,

Sebastian Marshall

[OldChinaHand]

What a proper little Tosser, create a scene, get a few names off tags, quote a few Lawyers (like they wont tell you what you want to hear), go on the Internet and blaze your crap out.

Mr, Marshall, rather than fouling the internet to amuse your ego, buy a Taser, attach electrodes to testicles and hit the ON button. This therapy may awaken you to who and what you are, saving countless individuals worldwide from future imbecilic acts.

[Sebastian Marshall]

> Mr, Marshall, rather than fouling the internet to amuse your ego, buy a Taser, attach electrodes to testicles and hit the ON button. This therapy may awaken you to who and what you are, saving countless individuals worldwide from future imbecilic acts.

So, you wrote that before my moderated post went live.

Here's the score - they screwed up, the manager wouldn't listen to that and threatened me, I told him to write it down, and then he called the police.

There were two choices - back down and submit to a power-crazy vioent jerk, or... what would up happening.

Maybe 99% of people who get taken off airplanes deserve it and are in the wrong. But if you don't think there's any managers who abuse their authority, threaten people, and cover it up afterwards...

I've got immense respect for pilots, air crew, ground staff, everyone. I'm pretty good to people. But you can't take a paying customer that you've made errors with, threaten him with violence for questioning you, and then call the police when he asks you to write your absurdly bad decision down (it was still boarding at that time by the way, there was plenty of time. He was just on a power trip.)

I got it on audio, by the way. Released the first transcription made now:
CATHAY MANAGEMENT ABUSE: Transcripted Discussion With Police | SebastianMarshall.com: Strategy, Philosophy, Self-Discipline, Science. Victory.

[broadband circuit]

There's a few things I can't understand.

1. If you did pay extra cash in PEK, then you should have a receipt, or a credit card statement as proof of payment. If you do have such a receipt, it should be an open & shut case against the airline. I assume you produced said receipt to the HKP at the time of arrest. So, why the big carry on?

2. What in the world possessed you to put "Citizen of the United States of America" at the end of your blog? No one cares where you're from. If you've been dealt with unfairly, then you deserve justice, whomever you may be, and wherever you're from.

3. This is a forum about Hong Kong aviation, mainly frequented by pilots (many of whom are employed by the said airline that you are in dispute with), yet you seem to be almost patting yourself on the back for informing us about the 49ers, a subject that is VERY familiar to all of our hearts:

please note that Cathay management fired the 49 pilots that enforced safety standards at Cathay

If you want to know the truth about the 49rs Mr Marshall, I suggest that you do what most of us (including myself) did, and buy the book "The 49ers, The True Story". It's available on Amazon & in bookstores in Hong Kong, and I believe an e-version is available for kindle. Not only will you learn the facts behind the story, but as you have stated your charitable credentials (which I actually respect and am not belittling), you'll be pleased to learn that the profits from your purchase will go to some of the actual 49ers.

4. As I said, this forum is full of pilots employed by the said airline which you are in dispute with, and to be honest, about 98% of those here totally DETEST the management team, and the way that they treat us, and our co-workers. Most of us have been, and will continue to be, subjected to the inflated ego of some insignificant low-level manager who try to throw their weight around "because they can". YET, despite our strong opinions on this matter, you have received a grand total of zero sympathy from us.

Good day to you Sir.

[hongkongfooey]

Having been unfortunate enough to travel on CX over 4 years with some of the rudest, most incompetent and ugly cabin crew, likewise for ground staff ( about 50% of both ), I say good on you Marshall

[Sebastian Marshall]

Thanks for the reply.

I don't know anything about this forum, except that coonabarabran posted the thread, Hedo Rick said I seem eccentric but have a valid argument, and then some guys here called me a prick and such.

> Most of us have been, and will continue to be, subjected to the inflated ego of some insignificant low-level manager who try to throw their weight around "because they can". YET, despite our strong opinions on this matter, you have received a grand total of zero sympathy from us.

I think almost everyone has had a situation where they were badly mistreated and just "took it" in order to "be reasonable and keep things moving."

99% of the time, you know what happens after that?

Nothing.

I'm trying to change things. This jerk manager at Cathay screwed a lot of people's lives, and does so frequently. Standing up to him makes a wave right now, and hopefully clears the future up for a better world.

I don't like being put in harm's way and having my entire vacation screwed up (I'm still in HK, never got to Taipei).

But to me, it's a relatively small price to pay to not let coercive, abusive people keep muscling their way through the world. The dude threatens me when I tell him (politely) that he made a mistake, and calls the police when I ask him to put his threat in writing (and said I'd comply if he did).

I'm pro-pilot. Maybe I fit the model of a guy who is an asshole, or whatever. Maybe I am an asshole, I don't know. But hey - say my facts check out. You can believe me or not, but let's say they did make multiple mistakes, the guy threatens me without listening to me, and calls the police when I ask him to make a permanent record of his decision.

Would that be wrong? Should we strive to change that?

[Hedo Rick]

Eccentric in a good way

Ever since 911 there has been a line drawn in the sand where by you're not even allowed to complain or have any confrontation with cabin crew OR you will be deemed a security threat.

I've been on CX with a 3month old and we were having a hard time, little man was upset and we needed some milk heated up pronto and we were treated like sh$t absolute sh$t. The Mongkok Muppets told us to bad we will have to wait until they finish the meal service.

My wife and I were furious and rightly so - but if I had made a scene I would have been deemed a security threat of some sort.

[SloppyJoe]

A few questions that require a very simple answer.

Did you have a business class boarding card?

Did you have a receipt showing you had just paid for an upgrade but received an economy class boarding card instead?

If you had neither of the above you should not have sat in business class regardless of how badly you thought CX had been treating you recently. It does not matter if you think you deserve to sit there due to the hard time you had been having. If you demanded it in writing that you move back to economy without holding a business class boarding pass (could understand if you did have the boarding pass about wanting it in writing), I would throw you off the plane. You may think you are blazing a way for public rights and sticking it to da man but sorry to burst your bubble, this **** happens a lot. Usually the person will say "fair enough" and move back to the seat he paid for. If they refuse unless it is in writing or on audio (without a boarding pass) I would be glad that the police were called and got you pulled off the plane. A delay can be very costly and frustrating and dealing with is easier off the plane than on it.

Once on an aircraft it is not the time to argue for an upgrade, do it at the check in desk.

If you did hold a business class boarding pass or receipt showing the upgrade then I hope you win. If not, give it a rest. Save your money, you will not get anywhere with this and will end up looking like a .

Did you have a business boarding pass or receipt showing the upgrade?

Your blog stinks of something I hate, mainly hailing from the awesome United States of America and that is trying to make something out of nothing so as to get maximum compensation. Please explain how other passengers were put at risk by the actions of this manager? You say it on numerous occasions but never elaborate. How were they put at risk?

[Sebastian Marshall]

The whole day was whacky. I wound up with two economy tickets, a paper receipt that said "First Class" on it, and seated in business on my first flight.

I went to the business class lounge to clear this up between flights. I was about to ask they change the paper, but they scanned my economy-class ticket, it beeped, and said, "Oh, you're cleared for the first class lounge" and they asked a staff member to walk me there. Then I figured things were okay, they'd already been sloppy and made mistakes a bunch.

Mind you, there were mistakes even before that, before I paid additional money... then more mistakes... then I asked politely for the manager, and then he basically instantly threatens me (and boarding wasn't over yet, so no one was being delayed).

You can't just take those threats - I said, write it down or record it, and I'll do exactly what you want. Would've taken 15 seconds and then he'd have gotten his way.

Me? I think he knows he screwed up and didn't want a record of it.

When a really unhappy customer says there's multiple mistakes, he's holding a receipt that says First Class and says there was an error and he was seated in business, and another error, and... y'know?

Threatening someone who says your airline's already made multiple mistakes that day, holding two economy tickets, and a first class upgrade receipt on paper, who said he was seated in business on the first flight, and said the business class lounge said he's in first...

Y'know? Whacky day. And then this power-tripping manager threatens me right away. He doesn't say get off the plane and talk about it (I would have said yes), he doesn't put his decision in writing or say it again once the recorder is on (I would have complied), he just... instantly calls the police. And here we are.

> "Your blog stinks of something I hate, mainly hailing from the awesome United States of America and that is trying to make something out of nothing so as to get maximum compensation."

I do want max compensation - but not for myself. The pilot on the flight should be compensated for a manager lying and misrepresenting that the orders came from him (Cathay reps lied later, on audio). Cabin crew should be compensated. So should all the passengers, and Cathay should donate to charity and enact a reform.

I despise money, myself. If my costs get covered here and they reform, I'm happy.

[L'aviateur]

I don't really understand why you've gotten into an argument on the aircraft.
If you didn't have a business class boarding pass, why did you not resolve that issue prior to boarding?
Why did you wait till you boarded the plane with an economy class boarding pass and sit in a seat that wasn't allocated to you?

I think you also need to wake up and realise your not in Kansas anymore, pulling these kind of stunts in some countries could have resulted in an even worse situation then in HK. This is the reality of travelling abroad.

Please post some more information and clarify, because it seems very odd.

[Sebastian Marshall]

The whole day was screwed up from the start. Look, I've flown... dozens, maybe hundreds of times? I've never had a day like that. I've been through 60-some countries now and done all kinds of strange travel (China to Mongolia over land-crossing type stuff) and never had anything close to this.

The end result of what happened was I had two paper economy tickets and a slip of paper with handwriting on it that said First Class, but I was seated in Business on the first flight and not First... I went to the business class lounge to get the tickets changed, they scanned the economy ticket, it beeped, and then they said, "Oh, you're eligible for the first class lounge" and they had a staff member walk me there. I'd meant to ask at business class about if I needed to change paper tickets, but they scanned mine and things were fine, and then First Class just waved me without much fuss, and I figured things were okay.

The whole day was a cluster**** from start to finish, after 4-5 screwups and not-quite-rights you kind of just figure you'll have to explain it to a manger. And so I asked for one politely. And he shows up and threatens me.

Really though, the tickets are kind of irrelevant. When someone says, "You're making a mistake, but fine, I'll do it your way - just commit it to writing" - the appropriate response isn't to call the police.

He could have said, "Step off the plane and I'll write my decision down" and I'd have done it. He could have said his decision on audio - if he was 100% sure he was right, he only needed to just repeat it again. The story isn't the travel screwup - I've seen many of those, I was at Heathrow on my way to Kiev the day the plane crashed on the runway, and that was a hell of a time, I had Austria -> Dubai screwed up due to extremely heavy winds and spent a night in Germany, I've seen all sorts of stuff. But I've never been threatened, which is just absurd. And I tell the guy to own some accountability for his threat, and he calls the police? Absurd. Nah, it's beyond absurd. We can't let people act like this. I'm strong enough to speak up for myself and usually people start acting more decently. But guys like Murphy just abuse and coerce weak people, and make the world a terrible place to live in.

[L'aviateur]

Hi Sebastian,

I appreciate what happened to you was intimidating and upsetting, but something still doesn't add up with your story.

I've personally never heard of anyone upgraded without a new boarding pass and seat assignment issued (or at least the new seat assignment written onto the boarding pass), regardless of what ticket and receipt you have.

Do you feel that you personally could have handled the situation any differently? What outcome do you see from the situation now? How better do you think CX could have dealt with your situation?