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Gents,
I cannot prove God exists and you cannot disprove it. What I can say is that I think you are "betting the farm" with your disbelief. I hope you are comfortable with your gamble because in the event that there is a God and an afterlife, you might find yourself in rather uncomfortable circumstances post-death. If I am wrong, I get to join the same nothingness you do. I will have just had one more imaginary friend than you
Good Luck,
CXorcist
I cannot prove God exists and you cannot disprove it. What I can say is that I think you are "betting the farm" with your disbelief. I hope you are comfortable with your gamble because in the event that there is a God and an afterlife, you might find yourself in rather uncomfortable circumstances post-death. If I am wrong, I get to join the same nothingness you do. I will have just had one more imaginary friend than you
Good Luck,
CXorcist
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Seeing that we are off topic, I'll rather enjoy life now and have one less space friend. Living by the book of " can not's" is not for me personally. Now remember today is Sunday, Space Daddy's rest day, don't bother him on a G Day.
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cxorcist,
First, if you don't want a discussion, perhaps you shouldn't post: The "last word" comment you made is nonsense, unless that is because you are hoping to intimidate others into not posting so that you could have the "last word" instead? You asked me several questions, then pre-attacked me about posting a response.
About your PS, I thought this was clever of you to come back at me how I did to you before, except I think you're off base in your attempt:
#2: I stated an opinion about my perception of your knowledge, a comparison to other posts you have made, and a statement of the use of uppers/downers by the military. I did not make an argument about/against your position, much less a straw man argument.
#3: I made no great claim or draw a major conclusion. See #2 above.
#5: Well, maybe debatable, but again, see #2 above and I don't think I made a personal attack on you, just the knowledge you shared and previous (delusional) creation-related conclusions you stated, without evidence.
#21: I see no relevance, as I did not draw a any bogus link conclusion about unrelated things, did I? I don't follow you with this one.
To answer your questions, yes I have personal knowledge of these pills. Yes, I have personal knowledge of the facts of the Tarnak Farms incident and the evidence you mentioned. Yes, I have considered the other pressure involved, and I personally understand them very well. However, I also have personal knowledge of this pilot, his personality, his reputation, his ego, his attitude and his performance that night, among other times. Do you know what his nickname/callsign was? I do. I believe there were many contributing factors, as with almost all accidents, but the final hole in the Swiss cheese was this pilot. He ignored orders to "stand by" where he was perfectly safe, and 2 minutes later to "hold fire" but seconds later he chose to execute an attack "in self defense" without a positive ID of the target, which was required for obvious reasons. Fighter pilots are trained to operate (and are normally proficient at operating) under extreme pressure and take great risks to do their jobs and particularly extreme risks to avoid friendly fire incidents. Even if the pills altered his judgment, the clear regulations intended to prevent his actions remained the same, as did the orders from both his flight lead and his controlling agency. Lastly, I don't think I have been shot at, though I could have been, but I think that has more to do with maintaining the offense rather than becoming defensive. Still, I don't see what being defensive and disconcerted has to do with this Tarnak Farms incident, as the F16 guy was neither defensive nor should he have felt disconcerted by the ground troops' training exercise way down below him.
Have a nice day!
PS Seemingly balanced Wikipedia article here about this incident is interesting, but it is not exactly the whole story.
First, if you don't want a discussion, perhaps you shouldn't post: The "last word" comment you made is nonsense, unless that is because you are hoping to intimidate others into not posting so that you could have the "last word" instead? You asked me several questions, then pre-attacked me about posting a response.
About your PS, I thought this was clever of you to come back at me how I did to you before, except I think you're off base in your attempt:
#2: I stated an opinion about my perception of your knowledge, a comparison to other posts you have made, and a statement of the use of uppers/downers by the military. I did not make an argument about/against your position, much less a straw man argument.
#3: I made no great claim or draw a major conclusion. See #2 above.
#5: Well, maybe debatable, but again, see #2 above and I don't think I made a personal attack on you, just the knowledge you shared and previous (delusional) creation-related conclusions you stated, without evidence.
#21: I see no relevance, as I did not draw a any bogus link conclusion about unrelated things, did I? I don't follow you with this one.
To answer your questions, yes I have personal knowledge of these pills. Yes, I have personal knowledge of the facts of the Tarnak Farms incident and the evidence you mentioned. Yes, I have considered the other pressure involved, and I personally understand them very well. However, I also have personal knowledge of this pilot, his personality, his reputation, his ego, his attitude and his performance that night, among other times. Do you know what his nickname/callsign was? I do. I believe there were many contributing factors, as with almost all accidents, but the final hole in the Swiss cheese was this pilot. He ignored orders to "stand by" where he was perfectly safe, and 2 minutes later to "hold fire" but seconds later he chose to execute an attack "in self defense" without a positive ID of the target, which was required for obvious reasons. Fighter pilots are trained to operate (and are normally proficient at operating) under extreme pressure and take great risks to do their jobs and particularly extreme risks to avoid friendly fire incidents. Even if the pills altered his judgment, the clear regulations intended to prevent his actions remained the same, as did the orders from both his flight lead and his controlling agency. Lastly, I don't think I have been shot at, though I could have been, but I think that has more to do with maintaining the offense rather than becoming defensive. Still, I don't see what being defensive and disconcerted has to do with this Tarnak Farms incident, as the F16 guy was neither defensive nor should he have felt disconcerted by the ground troops' training exercise way down below him.
Have a nice day!
PS Seemingly balanced Wikipedia article here about this incident is interesting, but it is not exactly the whole story.
Last edited by Iron Skillet; 4th Sep 2011 at 02:44.
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Ah, man, cxorcist....really? Again we have to deal with the "What if you're wrong?" silly non-argument?
See here for the perfect 1-minute video response from a very smart speaker:
Have a nice day!
PS I cannot prove invisible pink unicorns exist and you cannot disprove it. But there are reasons why you and most everyone else do not believe in invisible pink unicorns, right? Good. Now, extrapolate.
See here for the perfect 1-minute video response from a very smart speaker:
Have a nice day!
PS I cannot prove invisible pink unicorns exist and you cannot disprove it. But there are reasons why you and most everyone else do not believe in invisible pink unicorns, right? Good. Now, extrapolate.
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....your comment...'most everyone else do not believe in invisible pink unicorns' is quite typical of the childish anger and frustration that atheists usually demonstrate. Most people do not believe in invisible pink unicorns. However, billions of human beings since the early AD years do and shall continue to believe in a man that lived, died and rose again. A man that had no army, no money, no possessions. Two thousand years later we still speak of him and the gift he gave mankind. The entire foundation of Christianity is for each individual man to make a choice to accept Gods deep Love. All the problems of our lives and this world are due to mans rejection of said Love.
God does not compel, nor force this upon us. It is offered as the greatest gift in our existence. It came at a terrible price. It is something we cannot earn, but simply accept. One of you spoke of a relationship with God as living the life of 'cannots'.... I would counter that a life lived without a close relationship with God is one that is hollow, without meaning and eventually tragic. I would suggest that the anger inherent in most of your comments is reflective of the constant pricking of your conscience by the very God you choose to mock. Man's desire to achieve 'happiness' and 'fulfillment' are doomed to failure without God at the center. He made us to operate properly on one 'fuel' only.
There is no avoiding the eventual day of acknowledgement of God's existence. Only a brief time in eternity is spent in this life. I would suggest that the true definition of 'Hell' is an eternity separated from the very God who had his only Son die for you...to save you and reunite your soul with Him. An eternity where all that God represents is absent, and the realisation that you rejected the very power that created you and this universe will be something that is too awful to fully comprehend. Have no doubt, there is an eternal existence that will be far more profound than the brief flash of time we spend here. Every man makes a choice, whether they realise they are making one or not. God did not intend for us to avoid this subject, as it is at the core of why we are here. We did not 'just happen'.
I would encourage all those who are more inwardly curious about their existence and the universe we live in to read C S Lewis' book 'Mere Christianity'. He lays out a logical examination of mans nature and the eventual conclusion that our behaviour and the way our world is structured can only be due to God's involvement, and more importantly, Christ's necessity to have existed. For most of you posting here, I have no doubt that you would rather focus on invisible pink unicorns....but Christ died for your sake as much as he did for mine...
God does not compel, nor force this upon us. It is offered as the greatest gift in our existence. It came at a terrible price. It is something we cannot earn, but simply accept. One of you spoke of a relationship with God as living the life of 'cannots'.... I would counter that a life lived without a close relationship with God is one that is hollow, without meaning and eventually tragic. I would suggest that the anger inherent in most of your comments is reflective of the constant pricking of your conscience by the very God you choose to mock. Man's desire to achieve 'happiness' and 'fulfillment' are doomed to failure without God at the center. He made us to operate properly on one 'fuel' only.
There is no avoiding the eventual day of acknowledgement of God's existence. Only a brief time in eternity is spent in this life. I would suggest that the true definition of 'Hell' is an eternity separated from the very God who had his only Son die for you...to save you and reunite your soul with Him. An eternity where all that God represents is absent, and the realisation that you rejected the very power that created you and this universe will be something that is too awful to fully comprehend. Have no doubt, there is an eternal existence that will be far more profound than the brief flash of time we spend here. Every man makes a choice, whether they realise they are making one or not. God did not intend for us to avoid this subject, as it is at the core of why we are here. We did not 'just happen'.
I would encourage all those who are more inwardly curious about their existence and the universe we live in to read C S Lewis' book 'Mere Christianity'. He lays out a logical examination of mans nature and the eventual conclusion that our behaviour and the way our world is structured can only be due to God's involvement, and more importantly, Christ's necessity to have existed. For most of you posting here, I have no doubt that you would rather focus on invisible pink unicorns....but Christ died for your sake as much as he did for mine...
Last edited by Air Profit; 4th Sep 2011 at 06:53.
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Funny wind up, man, talking about Hercules this way today! Right? Hercules, or did you mean Ju Ju....oh, or was it Allah or Thor or Vishnu......wait, which bogus book of fairy tales did you look at to pick your delusion from?
Hey, I think you used the whole list in that short bit of nonsense, fallacies 1-25! Well done! Ok, I know, you missed a couple, but that's a really good, concise compilation of logical fallacies, man.
Have a nice day! Hope you join us in reality soon!
PS Since the writers of your little super-translated, re-edited and endlessly re-written book never met the guy and used hearsay for their contradictory stories, that "AD" thing is off by at least 4 years, which is why CE and BCE are used these days by those who don't use other calendars based on their own imaginary friend's birth/death/resurrection/miracle/battle victory/etc.
PPS Believing in something does not make it true! Think, repeat, then think again. It really doesn't matter how much you believe in fairy tales. Repeat: 9/11 terrorists really, really, really believed they were doing what their god wanted, too.
PPPS 5000 or so years later and we still speak of Osiris and 100's of other gods with virgin moms, god dads, stars marking their births, supernatural powers, 3 wise men, emperors committing genocide to "get him," resurrection and promises to return that of course never come true. 5000 yrs is even longer than 2000, so it's gotta be more true, right? Age of story = reliability, as with all old stories, right?
PPPS Really, you get through the day relying on all that stuff? Come on, man, think! Pretend you were born in Japan or Saudi Arabia or India, and think about Christianity from that point of view, not the bias that was imposed on your brain at some point. Just do the same thing you do now when you think about all the other equally bogus belief systems you so easily dismiss.
PPPPS Oh, I know this has to be a wind up, it's just so so so silly! Funny, good job, man!
Hey, I think you used the whole list in that short bit of nonsense, fallacies 1-25! Well done! Ok, I know, you missed a couple, but that's a really good, concise compilation of logical fallacies, man.
Have a nice day! Hope you join us in reality soon!
PS Since the writers of your little super-translated, re-edited and endlessly re-written book never met the guy and used hearsay for their contradictory stories, that "AD" thing is off by at least 4 years, which is why CE and BCE are used these days by those who don't use other calendars based on their own imaginary friend's birth/death/resurrection/miracle/battle victory/etc.
PPS Believing in something does not make it true! Think, repeat, then think again. It really doesn't matter how much you believe in fairy tales. Repeat: 9/11 terrorists really, really, really believed they were doing what their god wanted, too.
PPPS 5000 or so years later and we still speak of Osiris and 100's of other gods with virgin moms, god dads, stars marking their births, supernatural powers, 3 wise men, emperors committing genocide to "get him," resurrection and promises to return that of course never come true. 5000 yrs is even longer than 2000, so it's gotta be more true, right? Age of story = reliability, as with all old stories, right?
PPPS Really, you get through the day relying on all that stuff? Come on, man, think! Pretend you were born in Japan or Saudi Arabia or India, and think about Christianity from that point of view, not the bias that was imposed on your brain at some point. Just do the same thing you do now when you think about all the other equally bogus belief systems you so easily dismiss.
PPPPS Oh, I know this has to be a wind up, it's just so so so silly! Funny, good job, man!
Last edited by Iron Skillet; 4th Sep 2011 at 08:17.
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Iron Skillet. You consider that a thoughtful reply? Pretty sad 'man'. There is an old saying: 'Better to keep your mouth shut and let them think you are an idiot, than open it and remove all doubt'.
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There, I added more! Is that better?
As for opening mouth and sounding like an idiot....are you possibly serious? Kettle, pot...Oh, just another wind up! Funny, man, you guys are on a roll! Ha! 2000 yr old superpower dude is your hero, but does nothing, ever! Funny stuff, man, funny! Hey, let me tell you about the story of this awesome guy Jack, it's a really old story so it's true, and he died to save YOU! Really! And just ask him, he'll do anything you want, it says so in this book some other guys wrote about him. He's just so awesome!
As for opening mouth and sounding like an idiot....are you possibly serious? Kettle, pot...Oh, just another wind up! Funny, man, you guys are on a roll! Ha! 2000 yr old superpower dude is your hero, but does nothing, ever! Funny stuff, man, funny! Hey, let me tell you about the story of this awesome guy Jack, it's a really old story so it's true, and he died to save YOU! Really! And just ask him, he'll do anything you want, it says so in this book some other guys wrote about him. He's just so awesome!
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Keep wearing the tinfoil hat AirProfit... you'll be able to hear the voices in your head easier... or is this just a futile attempt to suck up to Mad Henry?...
... and as for using C.S. Lewis as an authority on one's internal dialogue with the infinite... you need ****'in help!
... and as for using C.S. Lewis as an authority on one's internal dialogue with the infinite... you need ****'in help!
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It's also interesting to note that whenever a thread inimical to the management viewpoint is posted, AirProfit pops up and diverts the thread into a loonier, ( but safer from a management point of view), direction...
Tinker, Tailor, Soldier...
Tinker, Tailor, Soldier...
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Kitsune. I see you are from England, a nation that once led the world in Christian thought and literature. Now it has lost it's way and is as spiritually dead as it is culturally dead. I'd worry about sorting out your own back yard before commenting on something you have so little understanding of.
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And what makes you such an expert aty????? You're just another close minded moron like the rest. Considering that there have been more muslims that have walked this planet than christians, what makes you so sure you're worshipping the right god??? What bunch of rubbish posts by some of the religious freaks.
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Water and ATY, please indicate which of my comments demonstrate idiocy, as in "something notably stupid or foolish."
Merriam Webster idiocy (I believe you intended #2 below, since I am not mentally handicapped):
1. usually offensive : extreme mental retardation
2. something notably stupid or foolish
Or perhaps you confused yourselves with the usernames in these long threads, and you intended to highlight the stupid and foolish comments of those who come to idiotic conclusions without using reason, logic or evidence by relying instead on faith, Bronze Age fairy tales and logical fallacies while ignoring all the opposing reason, logic and evidence based on verifiable observations, repeatable experimentation, ever-improving scientific knowledge, fact-based conclusions, and a general participation in non-supernatural reality? Don't worry, it happens all the time to delusional people. You can seek help, though, with education, visits to natural history museums, reading science books instead of invalid old stories, enjoying informative discussions with scientist and teachers, and opening your mind to do your own thinking, without relying of the virus of "faith" that has unfortunately infected your otherwise learning-capable brains
Have a nice day!
Merriam Webster idiocy (I believe you intended #2 below, since I am not mentally handicapped):
1. usually offensive : extreme mental retardation
2. something notably stupid or foolish
Or perhaps you confused yourselves with the usernames in these long threads, and you intended to highlight the stupid and foolish comments of those who come to idiotic conclusions without using reason, logic or evidence by relying instead on faith, Bronze Age fairy tales and logical fallacies while ignoring all the opposing reason, logic and evidence based on verifiable observations, repeatable experimentation, ever-improving scientific knowledge, fact-based conclusions, and a general participation in non-supernatural reality? Don't worry, it happens all the time to delusional people. You can seek help, though, with education, visits to natural history museums, reading science books instead of invalid old stories, enjoying informative discussions with scientist and teachers, and opening your mind to do your own thinking, without relying of the virus of "faith" that has unfortunately infected your otherwise learning-capable brains
Have a nice day!
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Flap 10. Another angry 'god hating' post I see. ATY was simply stating a fact: the UK, which once was a leading Christian nation, which provided Christendom with much of it's major literature is now dead. You don't have to like it, but it doesn't change the fact. As for CS Lewis and his legacy, I particularly like this summation of who Jesus was:
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic – on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg – or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronising nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic – on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg – or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronising nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
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Iron Skillet. That 'virus of faith' as you put it underpins nearly every aspect of the world you inhabit, and the life you live. Let's start with something simple shall we....the calender you use every day. The legal code that underpins western society. Incidentally, which country has tried to eradicate Christianity, but arguably has the fastest growing Christian church in the world? China. No power or principality shall prevail against the Lord. Might want to ponder that....as others have done for two thousand years.
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Iron Skillet. Or should I say 'Man'....(how old are you...really?). Take any one of the 'other' god's (!) you quote, and then do a dispassionate examination of what Christ proclaimed. Furthermore, explain how prophets (say, Isiah 53) could describe almost faultlessly the birth, life and death of someone hundreds of years prior to that 'Man' actually arriving on earth, being born, living and dying exactly as foretold. Explain how a man with so little of worldly goods, power or length of life could be able to establish a church that overcame the very Roman Empire that crucified him, and then to underpin the very foundation of our entire Western Civilisation? If you can answer that, then I think I will give you more of a hearing. To see the sheer complexity of your own existence (the complexity of an atom, or the working of the brain) and suggest it could somehow 'just happen' is really a far greater stretch of faith than anything a Christian professes. All you can do is attempt to mock, without explaining any of the deeply profound and thought provoking facts about a man who arrived on this earth 20 centuries ago and came with a message that was just quirky enough to be something you wouldn't have thought of randomly. Regardless of how we debate, you will always have the chance to ask him yourself one day....