Cathay Girls
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: heads down trying to figure out Chinese RVSM
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I have to admit, my experience is 'hit-or-miss'. Some flights they've (cabin crews) been awesome, other flights, we could've been dead on the flightdeck and nobody would've known...
I've had similar experiences like 400 Jockey, where I've been 'assumed' of trying to chat up one of the girls when all along I'm just 'stretching my legs'. I've wanted to say "Please, don't flatter yourselves" but apparently that's not taken well....but asking me if I am looking to chat a girl and that all we want to do is try and get into their pants, is ?
I keep things on a professional level and am always polite because there's absolutely no excuse to be rude, ever. If they want to carry on like peasants, that's their prerogative
I've had similar experiences like 400 Jockey, where I've been 'assumed' of trying to chat up one of the girls when all along I'm just 'stretching my legs'. I've wanted to say "Please, don't flatter yourselves" but apparently that's not taken well....but asking me if I am looking to chat a girl and that all we want to do is try and get into their pants, is ?
I keep things on a professional level and am always polite because there's absolutely no excuse to be rude, ever. If they want to carry on like peasants, that's their prerogative
Join Date: Sep 2007
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To Gipilot:
If you learn a bit of Cantonese and have the ability to do a bit of slapstick (watch the Chinese movie channels for hints) you will be an absolute hit with the (local) girls and will become famous as one of only a select few gweilos who make the effort to relate to the crew on their level - and you will definitely get a few dates out of it. Many of them are shy so its up to you. And don't let the ISM see.
If you learn a bit of Cantonese and have the ability to do a bit of slapstick (watch the Chinese movie channels for hints) you will be an absolute hit with the (local) girls and will become famous as one of only a select few gweilos who make the effort to relate to the crew on their level - and you will definitely get a few dates out of it. Many of them are shy so its up to you. And don't let the ISM see.
Fac6,
We've all had episodes where the other side have been let down by a few of their 'bad apples.' We all need to generate our own little libraries of sharp 'one-liners' to respond to our subordinate crew members who fail to act in the spirit of CRM. I would not hesitate in putting an ISM in her place if the situation warranted. It's all about Command!
The point I was trying to make is that we should not generalize, particularly when some of our colleagues fail to act like gentlemen. I know that may be difficult for some but I still believe that most of us were brought up properly and that we shouldn't let our standards slip.
If you are making an effort... good on you. Keep plugging away. Only if we demonstrate that new generation of Captain really is different and really is making an effort, then things will slowly change. It won't happen overnight (or even on an overnight - giPilot) but its a start.
I reiterate...
We are the leaders, we are the commanders, we set the example.
We've all had episodes where the other side have been let down by a few of their 'bad apples.' We all need to generate our own little libraries of sharp 'one-liners' to respond to our subordinate crew members who fail to act in the spirit of CRM. I would not hesitate in putting an ISM in her place if the situation warranted. It's all about Command!
The point I was trying to make is that we should not generalize, particularly when some of our colleagues fail to act like gentlemen. I know that may be difficult for some but I still believe that most of us were brought up properly and that we shouldn't let our standards slip.
If you are making an effort... good on you. Keep plugging away. Only if we demonstrate that new generation of Captain really is different and really is making an effort, then things will slowly change. It won't happen overnight (or even on an overnight - giPilot) but its a start.
I reiterate...
We are the leaders, we are the commanders, we set the example.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I agree with all the above.
About 13 years ago I arrived into AKL on 107 and asked the ISM if the crew wanted to meet for lunch? Her reply was "don't bother my crew, they are tired and wont go out"
About 30 mins later the ISM and about 6 crew passed me in the Lobby on the way out for lunch.........................
I've never forgotten that.
However I have had some REALLY good trips to CMB and BAH with our girls lately. Just when you give up being nice they do something you'd never expect.
The key to getting good service on the flight and on the overnight ( he he ) rests with the ISM and how you get along with her.
About 13 years ago I arrived into AKL on 107 and asked the ISM if the crew wanted to meet for lunch? Her reply was "don't bother my crew, they are tired and wont go out"
About 30 mins later the ISM and about 6 crew passed me in the Lobby on the way out for lunch.........................
I've never forgotten that.
However I have had some REALLY good trips to CMB and BAH with our girls lately. Just when you give up being nice they do something you'd never expect.
The key to getting good service on the flight and on the overnight ( he he ) rests with the ISM and how you get along with her.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hong Kong
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Max,
Agree with a lot of what you said however..
A330/B777 Crews take rest here when there is a spare First Class seat. Part of CX Pilots entitlements.
Again for A330/B777 crew, pilot award conditions allow us to eat our meals in First Class if another passenger is eating or not sleeping. Some Cabin Crew will try and argue this with you however it is written in their service manuals that Pilots are permitted to rest and eat in First Class.
When you show them this information in their manuals the look on their face is priceless...
As always we should all treat each other with respect. However some make it harder than others.
Agree with a lot of what you said however..
6. How many of us take rest in the cabin (and I'm pretty sure we're not permitted to do so in First)
Why on earth would any of us want to eat in the cabin? The time taken eating soaks uo 30 minutes of an otherwise boring watch duty! Put yourself in the shoes of the adjacent First or Business class passenger who has paid $40-70,000 to get to LHR. You would not want someone sitting next to you, eating and disturbing the tranquility of the environment. For the poster who had the SP countermand the permission of the ISM.... If a pax complains - it is the SP who will get it in the neck from CX not the ISM because it is her cabin. Besides, we are not permitted to eat in First.
When you show them this information in their manuals the look on their face is priceless...
As always we should all treat each other with respect. However some make it harder than others.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: KGRB, but on the road about 1/2 the time.
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Hi!
Sounds like some of the pilots at Cathay would be much happier at Emirates.
cliff
KYIP
PS-My app is in at Cathay, because of the US basing-cargo only.
Sounds like some of the pilots at Cathay would be much happier at Emirates.
cliff
KYIP
PS-My app is in at Cathay, because of the US basing-cargo only.
H. Dweller,
I totally agree with you on both your points. Indeed we are allowed to use First class on overnight flights if a seat is available. On one particular fleet, though, which has bunks and a CCL seat some guys are abusing the 330/777 privilege.
It's just that some of the guys have a strange way of trying to get something from the cabin crew.
A little story I was told recently from a very reliable CC source.
A -400 flight from Jo'burg....
The relief cmdr asked the ISM if he could sit and rest in first class. The response was yes; however, please don't eat since the Pax are sleeping. As soon as he took his seat he asked the SP for his meal, despite the wishes of the ISM. When the SP refused he jumped up, threw the headset on the seat and stormed back up stairs. Whilst doing so told the crew not to come to the flt deck for the rest of the flight... so they didn't.
His name is now very well known throughout ISD and he will probably get cr@p service for the rest of his time in CX.
I've retold the story verbatim, how much got embellished on the way I don't know. The point is; the incident happened, he didn't get reported, but it sours the pitch for everyone else.
It works both ways. The Asian airlines are very different from those back home, where ever that may be. We are the incomers and it is our responsibility to fit in and act accordingly; whilst never forgetting that we at the top of the crew list.
Banter is one thing, rudeness is intolerable. If you are a Captain, don't accept it from any one on your crew; neither pilot nor cabin crew. The rude ISMs are equally disliked by the junior crew. Just as the rude Captains are by the junior pilots. It is just unacceptable and if you see it happening, stamp on it with all the authority the 4 bars give you! Let them report you, just make sure you cover your 6 and tell your chief pilot before ISD do. It's very simple.
On the other hand, I see command trainees get the cabin crew eating out of their hand even before departure. So it's clearly not impossible. It called CRM... courtesy, respect and manners.
Lead, command, example etc etc.
I totally agree with you on both your points. Indeed we are allowed to use First class on overnight flights if a seat is available. On one particular fleet, though, which has bunks and a CCL seat some guys are abusing the 330/777 privilege.
It's just that some of the guys have a strange way of trying to get something from the cabin crew.
A little story I was told recently from a very reliable CC source.
A -400 flight from Jo'burg....
The relief cmdr asked the ISM if he could sit and rest in first class. The response was yes; however, please don't eat since the Pax are sleeping. As soon as he took his seat he asked the SP for his meal, despite the wishes of the ISM. When the SP refused he jumped up, threw the headset on the seat and stormed back up stairs. Whilst doing so told the crew not to come to the flt deck for the rest of the flight... so they didn't.
His name is now very well known throughout ISD and he will probably get cr@p service for the rest of his time in CX.
I've retold the story verbatim, how much got embellished on the way I don't know. The point is; the incident happened, he didn't get reported, but it sours the pitch for everyone else.
It works both ways. The Asian airlines are very different from those back home, where ever that may be. We are the incomers and it is our responsibility to fit in and act accordingly; whilst never forgetting that we at the top of the crew list.
Banter is one thing, rudeness is intolerable. If you are a Captain, don't accept it from any one on your crew; neither pilot nor cabin crew. The rude ISMs are equally disliked by the junior crew. Just as the rude Captains are by the junior pilots. It is just unacceptable and if you see it happening, stamp on it with all the authority the 4 bars give you! Let them report you, just make sure you cover your 6 and tell your chief pilot before ISD do. It's very simple.
On the other hand, I see command trainees get the cabin crew eating out of their hand even before departure. So it's clearly not impossible. It called CRM... courtesy, respect and manners.
Lead, command, example etc etc.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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fac6
Couldn't agree more old mate
Max, is your other half cabin crew by any chance? You seem to be very pro cabin crew despite the fact it's common knowledge they lack CRM.
Here's another story for you...
I'm sitting in First as an ID Pax, beside me is a Captains wife also ID traveling who asks very politely for some red wine. The cabin crew tells her "You have to wait until we open the bottle for a revenue passenger before we open it for you." I was completely ignored and when I asked for a coffee she sighed and walked off whilst bringing it some 15 minutes later (No there was no meal service at the time.) What did I do wrong then?
I think it better to not go into how the cabin crew treat cockpit as ID Pax
Couldn't agree more old mate
Max, is your other half cabin crew by any chance? You seem to be very pro cabin crew despite the fact it's common knowledge they lack CRM.
Here's another story for you...
I'm sitting in First as an ID Pax, beside me is a Captains wife also ID traveling who asks very politely for some red wine. The cabin crew tells her "You have to wait until we open the bottle for a revenue passenger before we open it for you." I was completely ignored and when I asked for a coffee she sighed and walked off whilst bringing it some 15 minutes later (No there was no meal service at the time.) What did I do wrong then?
I think it better to not go into how the cabin crew treat cockpit as ID Pax
Last edited by 400 Jockey; 22nd May 2008 at 03:36.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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CX Cabin Crew
To those who have difficulty with the CX Cabin Crews, maybe you should take a long hard look at yourselves. In my time in HK I never once had a problem, treated them as I would want my own to be treated, and had a great time.
It might be worth thinking about that the people in the cabin they have to deal with range from absolute slobs to those with over-inflated opinions of themselves and many who are just downright rude. Because they are Asians does not make them any less an asset to CX than anyone at the sharp end.
Maybe things have changed a lot in CX, but my memories of being part of the outfit are all good ones.
It might be worth thinking about that the people in the cabin they have to deal with range from absolute slobs to those with over-inflated opinions of themselves and many who are just downright rude. Because they are Asians does not make them any less an asset to CX than anyone at the sharp end.
Maybe things have changed a lot in CX, but my memories of being part of the outfit are all good ones.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Fac6
I agree with you. Every pilot I have flown with are courtious to the cabin crew and yet they are mostly unfriendly in return.
Max reheat
You go on about this 'new generation' of captains etc..what aload of rubbish. I have been in CX along time and I can tell you CX was alot more fun and relaxed with the cabin crew before the 'new generation' of captain came. You speak to the older ISMs and they ALL talk about the good old days in CX and complain about the new captains.
It has NOTHING to do about old and new captains. The cabin crew are now dicouraged to associate with the cockpit crew as in the past no one cared and was even encouraged by the ISMs. Because recruiting now is PC driven anyone that can barely speak two words of english is recruited. In the past recruitment was very selective and they only took those with excellent english and social skills....hence more girls from other nations and less locals. This leads to alot of the cabin crew shy to talk to you in your mother tongue. ...... therefore they would rather not and this is misunderstood as being unfriendly.
As for fluffing the pillow..get real
As for asking for your crew meal.....how long does it take to bring in to crappy. badly presented meals when the pilots are hungry...gee 2 minutes....get real
and yes..max reheat I do let my crew read newspapers in the cockpit...naughty me .. but then again I am an old generation captain.
I agree with you. Every pilot I have flown with are courtious to the cabin crew and yet they are mostly unfriendly in return.
Max reheat
You go on about this 'new generation' of captains etc..what aload of rubbish. I have been in CX along time and I can tell you CX was alot more fun and relaxed with the cabin crew before the 'new generation' of captain came. You speak to the older ISMs and they ALL talk about the good old days in CX and complain about the new captains.
It has NOTHING to do about old and new captains. The cabin crew are now dicouraged to associate with the cockpit crew as in the past no one cared and was even encouraged by the ISMs. Because recruiting now is PC driven anyone that can barely speak two words of english is recruited. In the past recruitment was very selective and they only took those with excellent english and social skills....hence more girls from other nations and less locals. This leads to alot of the cabin crew shy to talk to you in your mother tongue. ...... therefore they would rather not and this is misunderstood as being unfriendly.
As for fluffing the pillow..get real
As for asking for your crew meal.....how long does it take to bring in to crappy. badly presented meals when the pilots are hungry...gee 2 minutes....get real
and yes..max reheat I do let my crew read newspapers in the cockpit...naughty me .. but then again I am an old generation captain.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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So much negative on CX cabin crews....
Anyway, my sister is a CX cabin crew, and she's pretty friendly (not in those kind of way!).. but if you talk to her, i am sure she'll talk back!
or in my case,, talks too much for me
Anyway, my sister is a CX cabin crew, and she's pretty friendly (not in those kind of way!).. but if you talk to her, i am sure she'll talk back!
or in my case,, talks too much for me
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I haven't always been a pilot and have worked in various industries. Some with people that make the MFL's of the world look like an angels (yes I am on the 400) In every job I've had I have had to deal with absolute aholes, some really good people and alot in between. You have a simple choice. Take the easy road, lock yourself in the cockpit and believe that the cabin crew are a bunch of subhuman pr..ks that must be tolerated at best. Take the high road, make an effort, tolerate the rude few and maybe, just maybe make a difference. Am I saying they are right and we are wrong, no. I've spent 6hours getting teas when I asked for coffees. I've had a rude reply when trying to make polite conversation waiting for the bus...the list goes on. But I've also had girls going out of their way to make a trip more comfortable when I'm PXing, gone out of their way to remember my name...you get the idea. It's too easy to take the low road guys, don't let the disgruntled few drag you down. Now off my high horse.
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Quote:''saw the ISM walking across the lobby with 6 crew going for dinner''
One of our girls told me one of the reasons they are reluctant to go for dinner with the CC is the enormous 'drink' bill that is chalked up at dinner outport.'' I only ate a cheese + tomato sandwich and milk why should I...''
Some of them live a very frugal exsistent due to family/personal circumstances.
One of our girls told me one of the reasons they are reluctant to go for dinner with the CC is the enormous 'drink' bill that is chalked up at dinner outport.'' I only ate a cheese + tomato sandwich and milk why should I...''
Some of them live a very frugal exsistent due to family/personal circumstances.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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"The C asked the crew (shouted) to his birthday b/fast at outport. Once the pigs had eaten something was said in Cantonese, they all got up and left without a thankyou"
You can only try so hard
After that they are just A***holes
Plain and simple
You can only try so hard
After that they are just A***holes
Plain and simple
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: HKG
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Worked Christmas day a few years ago, and spent some time putting together some small gifts and my wife wrote some cards with every crew's name. I put the silly hat on and handed them all out individually wishing everyone a good holiday.
Now of course I didn't do any of this for recognition, but have a guess how many of them came up at some other point to say thanks? That's right, ZERO. In fact after our post flt duties, I walked out of the cockpit to find they were all gone, without even saying goodbye to us! Unbelievable.
I still try to take "the high road" as I won't let some ruin it for all. But it is disappointing to see how pathetic it is some times. Even 10 years ago things were MUCH, MUCH better, and we used to have some great trips back then.
Now of course I didn't do any of this for recognition, but have a guess how many of them came up at some other point to say thanks? That's right, ZERO. In fact after our post flt duties, I walked out of the cockpit to find they were all gone, without even saying goodbye to us! Unbelievable.
I still try to take "the high road" as I won't let some ruin it for all. But it is disappointing to see how pathetic it is some times. Even 10 years ago things were MUCH, MUCH better, and we used to have some great trips back then.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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The based CC are 95% fabulous! The HKG based Chinese CC are mostly (as referred to earlier) represent MongKok airlines and have little or no personality. The rest of the Asian CC based in HKG are mostly OK, friendly and helpful but only 10-20% of them would meet the levels of camaraderie shown by the overseas based crews.
So, the HKG CC are unhappy with based CC. I say jealousy is the reason and attaining a personality is the answer!
So, the HKG CC are unhappy with based CC. I say jealousy is the reason and attaining a personality is the answer!
cpdude,
Your comments are all fine; however, how would you feel if KJP and NR decided....
'To hell with the lot of them - we are recruiting direct to the base including DE capts on the pax fleet!'
I think you'd be amongst the first to squirm.....
The CC based in HJG are no different. Personality or not, they don't deserve this.
Your comments are all fine; however, how would you feel if KJP and NR decided....
'To hell with the lot of them - we are recruiting direct to the base including DE capts on the pax fleet!'
I think you'd be amongst the first to squirm.....
The CC based in HJG are no different. Personality or not, they don't deserve this.