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The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines

Old 25th Feb 2011, 06:38
  #1241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: ASIA
Posts: 56
yes it's true. Hongkongpooy you're still a dick head!
diablo_caliente is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2011, 17:28
  #1242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 275
Quote:
On 80Hrs a month at HKA you'd be on something north of 127K HKD
So you only get 7000 for 10 hrs O/T ?....

....Still I guess when you consider a CX/KA skipper is on 120K basic 0-75hrs/month ( not buying a house ) plus 13th month plus 15% gratuity plus profit share plus medical plus schooling plus staff travel plus travel fund it just goes to show that HKA are still bringing up the rear in HKG by a fair margin, even a corporate G5 driver earns more than a HKA 330 captain.

Honky, I said NORTH of 127K. Forgive me for not calculating the last buck. The company bumf talks about 140K - but you'd be maxing out on hours, and I don't wanna work that hard frankly. I'm one of those guys who wants more time off rather than more money.

Listen mate....I have tons of hours, but if I decided to take up that job at Cathay right now I'd be on WAY LESS than the numbers you quote, because in spite of my spotless tens of thousands of hours experience in a respected legacy european carrier - I'd be hired as an F/O and be required to serve hard time. Ain't interested. And congrats to the CX guys for defending their seniority system.

If ya've got A Scale LHS at Cathay - Congratulations!! Enjoy!! Invite me to the Barbie some time...

One of our HKA colleagues quit Cathay, he said he'd had 'enough of blood sucking' - whatever that means. But why quit a 200K + 85K job and then join this shonky outfit. I'd love to know! Maybe CX is not all it's cracked up to be either!
Nowheres perfect!

Like I said, if you are on big money in Cathay, enjoy. I'm happy for you and all the other guys on A Scale. We all need A Scalers to support wages benchmarks in this industry!
But wind your neck in mate, cos if you're A Scale you are living in a very priviliged and unique situation, which may not last.
Without Cathay - what are your alternatives?
Welcome to Bombay???
Not for me thanks.

Turn your guns on the proper targets, and stop shooting down your colleagues. It's highly counter productive. Pilot Unity is the ultimate winner.

See you at the next ALPA/AOA get together. I'm joining up.

Last edited by Algol; 25th Feb 2011 at 17:55.
Algol is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2011, 03:57
  #1243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: HK
Posts: 514
ALGOL

Are you a Management wannabe hoping to get selected as you are supporting them here.

Your posts are all over the place and you sound like a complete Walter Mitty character. Think you should go and sit in a dark room or converse with your analyst.
iceman50 is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2011, 06:48
  #1244 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Heaven compared to Hong Kong
Age: 60
Posts: 19
The company has problems.

The numbers speak for themself. These are the numbers for HKE.

HKA has an even higher turnover.
400% pilot turnover since 2005

80% pilot turnover each and every year since the company started.

I challenge any of you to find an airline anywhere in the world that has pilots come and go like this.

Do you really think a company which is good to its staff would have experienced this huge turnover?

Do you want to work for a company that is so narrow minded and under resourced that they have done nothing to slow this exodus?

Do you want to work for a company with management that is so incompetent that they did not even realize that the turnover was this high (until now. reading this)

What is the cost to train up then lose a pilot? 100,000 $US? more? Multiply that by the 240 pilots the company trained and lost. (HKE) What price can you put on experience that walks out the door? Thatís why all decent airlines around the world make an effort to keep pilot turnover low.

This year will be another huge loss for the company in terms of pilot turnover. The industry is going very well with lots of airlines hiring, and many guys have applied elsewhere, with a large group shortlisted and waiting for the call up.

Ask any pilot to improve this situation so the company becomes a long term career option and they can solve this problem overnight.

Any suggestions made are ignored.

My daughter fresh out of uni with a business degree could manage the company better than it is at the moment and make it a place that pilots would be proud to work for.

The numbers. 80% per annum.
400% since inception.
HKA numbers much much higher than this.
You be the judge.
changi.prison is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2011, 08:23
  #1245 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yellow Brick Road
Posts: 1,132
High turnover could be due to a variety of reasons. It could be due to pilots leaving Hong Kong as soon as their bond is over or have enough hours on type (screw the bond). HKA is pretty sick and tired of such pilots but there's nothing it can do as bonding is illegal in Hong Kong.

The solution lies in recruiting those who already have long term ties or commitments to Hong Kong. Perks like housing allowances and commuting rosters will not be so important then.
ReverseFlight is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2011, 10:26
  #1246 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Heaven compared to Hong Kong
Age: 60
Posts: 19
ReverseFlight
Sounds good in theory but this is not Australia with a large pool of G.A pilots. Perhaps you dont have any idea of what happens in China?

It could be due to pilots leaving Hong Kong as soon as their bond is over or have enough hours on type
That is called market forces. You pay crap, act crap and treat your staff like crap, they walk.

So what your saying is to solve the problem we need to hire Asian pilots..... um where from? They wont leave Cathay or Dragonair and all Chinese mainland pilots are bonded for life plus mainland China has its own grand plans for expansion and world domination.

You have the Management mentallity. Trying to bypass the problem rather than improve the conditions and make pilots want to stay.

The turnover is not entirely about housing or schooling. It is the overall package and attitude.

And dont forget... Many of the pilots that have left previously were Chinese.
changi.prison is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2011, 15:39
  #1247 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: No Fixed Abode
Posts: 205
ReverseFligth you tool; nobody stays at that circus long enough to a) see out their bond or b) collect enough hours. A line pilot after 12 months would be struggling to accumulate 100hrs, let alone anything useful.

Christ it's breathtaking the straws at which people will clutch in order to justify their poor decisions. Algol may be misguided and contributing towards the never ending downward push on terms and conditions but at least he is not delusional.
Hoofharted is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2011, 16:11
  #1248 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yellow Brick Road
Posts: 1,132
you tool ... A line pilot after 12 months would be struggling to accumulate 100hrs
Wow, that's news to me. This could seriously damage your career. I have heard worse at other operators, much worse.
ReverseFlight is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2011, 03:01
  #1249 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Shenzen, China
Posts: 14
Flydubai?

I have heard that Flydubai will be coming to HK this month to conduct interviews, as 15 or more first officers are trying to go to Flydubai from HKE and HKA. No upgrade program for HKE or HKA and the money is nowhere near enough. Does anyone know the date for the assesment?
Malcontento' is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2011, 08:07
  #1250 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: alcatraz
Posts: 34
HKA/X to Flydubai,

a case of 'out of the frying pan into the fire!!'

same same, but different!!!
tothepoint is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2011, 05:37
  #1251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Shenzen, China
Posts: 14
HKA = No Upgrades - EVER!

Maybe, but there is not a line of first officers who have been waiting 3-4 years for upgrade at Flydubai. There is no TRE for either of the Boeing fleets and even though several have been promised their chance at command - NONE have gotten it. It does not appear that there is even a CAD approved program for command. They will certainly NOT be able to attract new FOs if this is the case.
Malcontento' is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2011, 14:35
  #1252 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 170
they are recently looking for pilots for their a320 fleet

any news about the arrival of their new a320s??
takamasa is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2011, 03:01
  #1253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 44
Posts: 280
Hmm yes, they are currently on their way to HKG by boat might take another couple of weeks...just wait patiently and they will arrive

Darn Frenchies why didn't they sent them by Airmail
Coastrider26 is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2011, 00:43
  #1254 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 674
Are their 320s going to be the Tianjin versions?
geh065 is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2011, 08:59
  #1255 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mos Eisley
Posts: 36
HKA Training Manager Resigns

The Training Manager has resigned (or was he pushed). They have only just got him through the examiner's course too.

NEXT!!!!!
Sora Bulq is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2011, 09:05
  #1256 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: kundu land
Posts: 42
The Training Manager has resigned (or was he pushed). They have only just got him through the examiner's course too.

NEXT!!!!!
The obvious... 'ex or current to be' CX or KA will be moving in soon! The indispensable.. haha!

Good luck guys!
MD330 is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2011, 11:28
  #1257 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 31
Posts: 37
hi anyone know if HKA hire frozen ATPL?

I have just recently applied to HKA SO but no news abt interview yet.

any info? thank you~
lkcmss2000 is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2011, 15:01
  #1258 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 358
Just received the "Thanks, but no thanks" letter from HKA - it looks as if I am not recent enough. Good luck to everyone else!
Shaman is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2011, 12:03
  #1259 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 18
2010′s Top Ten in the World

This year, the most expensive cities were in Asia, Europe and South America.
So, starting from the most expensive, here are the Top Ten in the world:
  1. Tokyo, Japan
  2. Caracas, Venezuela
  3. Hong Kong, China
  4. Geneva, Switzerland
  5. Osaka, Japan
  6. Zurich, Switzerland
  7. Sao Paulo, Brazil
  8. Oslo, Norway
  9. Nagoya, Japan
  10. Moscow, Russia
You can see the complete list of 300 cities here.

Tokyo earned top honors for its costs for housing, healthcare and groceries. Its cost of living index is a whopping 158.4.

Caracas is the most expensive city for furniture and appliances, alcohol and tobacco, recreation and culture, and restaurants and hotels. Itís also the second-most expensive for healthcare and housing.

Hong Kong wins third place because of expensive housing and healthcare.


How They Rank

Xpatulator ranks the cost of living based on prices for the same goods and services in each city. They use New York City as their baseline, with a cost of living rank of 100. They choose their 13 basket groups of goods and services based on whatís representative of an expat lifestyle. The 13 basket groups are weighted and include:
  • Alcohol & Tobacco
  • Clothing
  • Communication
  • Education
  • Furniture & Appliances
  • Groceries
  • Healthcare
  • Household (rental, utilities, taxes)
  • Miscellaneous
  • Personal care
  • Recreation & culture
  • Restaurants & Hotels
  • Transportation


HKA pays no:
  • Housing
  • Schooling
  • Decent medical/healthcare
  • Tickets to Home country
HKA pays:
  • Only 28 days annual leave
  • Below average salary
  • Below average overnight allowances
  • No extra for work a day off or a public holiday
  • Public holidays worked are not given as extra time off later
  • No (ZERO) Provident fund for 12 months or more, then 1500 a month only ($193) (retire by 95?)
any questions?
cxa340so is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2011, 13:52
  #1260 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: dowund
Posts: 91
sour grapes
cpahka is offline  

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