Resignations at KA
Join Date: May 2001
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Cathay will not do anything
Cathay are very busy keeping their very own crew shortage under wraps. They simply don't have time or the inclination to be worrying about the KA problem.
This week alone they have lost 3 more F/O's. Many are now taking the lifestyle choice and passing up the command to remain on a base.
As of 2 months ago, 7 F/O's who were all within 6 months of a command opted for a permanent basing, and all as F/O's. The company has tried to talk them into staying in HK to do their command, but all have "declined" politely.
Part of the problem as I see it, is that many of us joined what we perceived was the best airline in the world to work for. And now, quite simply, it isn't the best any more. The have never treated us fairly. Now, fortunately, there are other options, and the most popular one is to be based in your home country, paid a good income, and work for an airline that treats you as human. Unfortunately that airline is no longer Cathay.
This week alone they have lost 3 more F/O's. Many are now taking the lifestyle choice and passing up the command to remain on a base.
As of 2 months ago, 7 F/O's who were all within 6 months of a command opted for a permanent basing, and all as F/O's. The company has tried to talk them into staying in HK to do their command, but all have "declined" politely.
Part of the problem as I see it, is that many of us joined what we perceived was the best airline in the world to work for. And now, quite simply, it isn't the best any more. The have never treated us fairly. Now, fortunately, there are other options, and the most popular one is to be based in your home country, paid a good income, and work for an airline that treats you as human. Unfortunately that airline is no longer Cathay.
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Hey Pudding
The thread is not about Cathay mate. How many of your captains are resigning by the way ? Percentage wise, our resignations are dire. Plus we made the papers.
Easy to fix too. Pay more money and buy the rostering team a computer.
The thread is not about Cathay mate. How many of your captains are resigning by the way ? Percentage wise, our resignations are dire. Plus we made the papers.
Easy to fix too. Pay more money and buy the rostering team a computer.
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This is going to be a snowball effect. The guys (gals) that are on the fence about staying at KA will be pushed over the edge by the upcoming roster chaos. People who normally don't call sick will start doing it because it is the only way to have a normal life. Have anyone tried to get a requested G day on the last roster?? Without a hefty pay adjustment and some good will gesture from L2, there might be more flats for sale in DB.
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We at CX will take action when approiate. We are just deciding whom to keep. Which Managers have what it takes to be a Cathay Manager?
Do the current Managers have what it takes to dismiss 10-20 pilots to keep the rest in line (it is coming)! We are waiting to see.
If not resolved, the CX Management Team will have to step in. We now have seconded a reconnaissance Team to KA to assimilate the damage and see where the terminations will come. It may be Management and most definitely be pilots.
It is very easy to take over KA routes with CX pilots with our A330’s and B777 aircraft on the major routes. Some of the secondary routes may have to suffer until we get the KA situation under control but it is the long-term goal that we are looking at.
We have a superior training team, which will get the job done. Our CX pilots will enjoy flying to Beijing for the Olympics.
When KA Management cannot control their current group then we at The Cathay Pacific group will sort it out, guaranteed.
Here is to my bonus.
The Management
Do the current Managers have what it takes to dismiss 10-20 pilots to keep the rest in line (it is coming)! We are waiting to see.
If not resolved, the CX Management Team will have to step in. We now have seconded a reconnaissance Team to KA to assimilate the damage and see where the terminations will come. It may be Management and most definitely be pilots.
It is very easy to take over KA routes with CX pilots with our A330’s and B777 aircraft on the major routes. Some of the secondary routes may have to suffer until we get the KA situation under control but it is the long-term goal that we are looking at.
We have a superior training team, which will get the job done. Our CX pilots will enjoy flying to Beijing for the Olympics.
When KA Management cannot control their current group then we at The Cathay Pacific group will sort it out, guaranteed.
Here is to my bonus.
The Management
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Enjoy
Management
I'm sure all the KA boys will be more than relieved that you can step in a take over Beijing and hopefully Shanghai too from KA, you will appreciate the controlling ! Good proving ground for all the new CX commanders.
Enjoy the delays and of course all the new ASR's that you will enjoy filing.
Don't CX have a crewing problem too ?
I'm sure all the KA boys will be more than relieved that you can step in a take over Beijing and hopefully Shanghai too from KA, you will appreciate the controlling ! Good proving ground for all the new CX commanders.
Enjoy the delays and of course all the new ASR's that you will enjoy filing.
Don't CX have a crewing problem too ?
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The Management
I enjoy reading your posts, generally they are well thought out. I believe you're slightly off the mark with this one though.
Early 2008 KA will be drastically short of crew, so as ignorant as I believe The Management are, I do not believe they are stupid enough to take another 20 pilots out of the roster.
Aside from that I truely believe there is very little Management can do to threaten us or "keep us in line". We are really getting to the stage where one of the buckets is full..
As we all know there are jobs for us all in almost every part of the globe that we would wish to go, Uk Loco's are paying upwards of GBP100,000 and I understand commands at Jetstar are 2-3 years away for those that join now.
KA may have been a career airline 3-4 years ago, it is not now.
CX on the other hand still offers the guys the chance of basings and destination far more appealing than the filthy mainland places we are continuing to expand into.
How do you believe threatening a guy at KA with his job, is going to make him tow the line, when I suspect approx 25% of the guys are working on an exit plan anyway.
Fx
I enjoy reading your posts, generally they are well thought out. I believe you're slightly off the mark with this one though.
Early 2008 KA will be drastically short of crew, so as ignorant as I believe The Management are, I do not believe they are stupid enough to take another 20 pilots out of the roster.
Aside from that I truely believe there is very little Management can do to threaten us or "keep us in line". We are really getting to the stage where one of the buckets is full..
As we all know there are jobs for us all in almost every part of the globe that we would wish to go, Uk Loco's are paying upwards of GBP100,000 and I understand commands at Jetstar are 2-3 years away for those that join now.
KA may have been a career airline 3-4 years ago, it is not now.
CX on the other hand still offers the guys the chance of basings and destination far more appealing than the filthy mainland places we are continuing to expand into.
How do you believe threatening a guy at KA with his job, is going to make him tow the line, when I suspect approx 25% of the guys are working on an exit plan anyway.
Fx
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resignations at KA
For some time I've found Managements half truths quite amusing but now it's beginning to grate (exactly as he wants I'm sure).
Are the executives who are 'managing CX' so delusional now that they think the CX problem is so well addressed that they can simply move these brilliant minds sideways to KA and everything will be rosy? Is CX running like a well oiled machine? Not from where I am. In every department the input from Aircrew 'Management 'is woeful. They simply haven't got a grasp of what is going on. I can't think of anyone who even begins to have any leadership skills at all. They are the most despised group of people I have ever had the pleasure of avoiding.
Aircrew are fed up with being abused and intimidated. They will retaliate individually and collectively - they already are. How? People will either leave and go somewhere else, or maybe stay and just waste tons of fuel a day. Or go sick or refuse to 'help out' by working on Gdays. No chance whatever of extending an FDP. Why? How do you know how you will feel at the end of your extended FDP? You don't so it's unsafe so don't do it.
Stay guys - you can do more damage inside than outside.
Good luck Management. Enjoy while you can - our day is coming. Actually - I think it's here.
Are the executives who are 'managing CX' so delusional now that they think the CX problem is so well addressed that they can simply move these brilliant minds sideways to KA and everything will be rosy? Is CX running like a well oiled machine? Not from where I am. In every department the input from Aircrew 'Management 'is woeful. They simply haven't got a grasp of what is going on. I can't think of anyone who even begins to have any leadership skills at all. They are the most despised group of people I have ever had the pleasure of avoiding.
Aircrew are fed up with being abused and intimidated. They will retaliate individually and collectively - they already are. How? People will either leave and go somewhere else, or maybe stay and just waste tons of fuel a day. Or go sick or refuse to 'help out' by working on Gdays. No chance whatever of extending an FDP. Why? How do you know how you will feel at the end of your extended FDP? You don't so it's unsafe so don't do it.
Stay guys - you can do more damage inside than outside.
Good luck Management. Enjoy while you can - our day is coming. Actually - I think it's here.
I've always found 'Management' to be a valid parody and a useful insight into how an alternative mindset could work. In his posts, he is always at odds with the mainstream and very confrontational. But recently, his posts have been ignoring the problems facing the CX group with no idea of how the world pilot shortage is going to affect them.
Just like the real thing! Keep up the good work Mr Management
Just like the real thing! Keep up the good work Mr Management
Join Date: Oct 2007
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This Is A Batting Wicket
Management this is a batting wicket - play but here you'll get hit for a six! 
Let’s say you represent PW. I'd be banking you bonus if I were you. Because u’ve got SH...T coming boy & it all your fault.
Same goes with Managers at KA - CX Managers will blame u for the KA Crew problems & u'll be on the street.
So why don't all managers buckle up and bowl line & line from now on since the pitch is hot.
There is plenty of business out there for us all to share. Get your teams behind you. Get pay & rostering together then attract the last of the remaining pilots out there. Order those additional 20 B777 for CX. And grow KA so we can fill all the last remaining slots before others do.
HK GOV & Public will try find fault esp. high ticket prices & delays etc. Why because we're a monopoly. So becareful bowlers this game will become very interesting if you bowl short deliveries.
As for folks leaving KA & CX well done on taking the courage. You're certainly booking your slots ahead of those that will be flowing.
This is just a warm up. 2008 is a batting wicket guys. You might feel pressure with 11 to 2 on pitch. But watch those balls and smack the short ones. Enjoy Where have the bowlers gone where the bowlers gone!
Let’s say you represent PW. I'd be banking you bonus if I were you. Because u’ve got SH...T coming boy & it all your fault. Same goes with Managers at KA - CX Managers will blame u for the KA Crew problems & u'll be on the street.
So why don't all managers buckle up and bowl line & line from now on since the pitch is hot.
There is plenty of business out there for us all to share. Get your teams behind you. Get pay & rostering together then attract the last of the remaining pilots out there. Order those additional 20 B777 for CX. And grow KA so we can fill all the last remaining slots before others do.
HK GOV & Public will try find fault esp. high ticket prices & delays etc. Why because we're a monopoly. So becareful bowlers this game will become very interesting if you bowl short deliveries.
As for folks leaving KA & CX well done on taking the courage. You're certainly booking your slots ahead of those that will be flowing.
This is just a warm up. 2008 is a batting wicket guys. You might feel pressure with 11 to 2 on pitch. But watch those balls and smack the short ones. Enjoy
Where have the bowlers gone where the bowlers gone!
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better get out of that office more mr management........there's a pilot shortage out here old buddy and it ain't getting better.........you wouldn't have the ballz to sack 20 pilots!!............plus your minder wouldn't let you do it...don't count on that bonus either....no pilots to fly your aircraft... means aircraft on the ground...means NO REVENUE!.....can you figure the rest out mr management or do i have to help you out again!
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Really?
There cant be a flightdeck crew shortage at KA.Have valid HK Licence with 744 rating,passed the 2 interviews this year,signed and forwarded the contract.......and 5 days before the commencment date e-mail comes.....Employment Offer withdrawn........3 days after I have resigned from my previous airline.......
Thanks a lot
Thanks a lot
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Deske, probably doesnt feel like it right now, but you are one of the luckiest guys I know! think of it as a lucky omen. There is another 744 operator in HKG that actually has growth plans! novel I know, but give them a call.
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I hate to say it Deske, but there isn't exactly a dearth of information about KA and it's management style. If you ignore all the friendly advice and warnings about the way they treat people then you can expect very little sympathy.
As Lowkoon says, consider it a lucky break and try your hand at an airline that actually treats you as a human being.
As Lowkoon says, consider it a lucky break and try your hand at an airline that actually treats you as a human being.
Deske
You weren't a scab in your career past were you? A scab was once employed by KA before and he received the same letter 3 days before starting after he quit his job, sold his car and sold his whole house full of furniture.
Ditto on the other guy's comments - they did you a favour. Now maybe you will believe this 6 pages of stuff here that you obviously chose to ignore.
Take heed anyone else interested in this place - 6 pages here sums up the management of this airline pretty well. Deske chose to ignore all the friendly warnings and now seems upset at them for acting exactly in the manner which everyone had warned him about.
You weren't a scab in your career past were you? A scab was once employed by KA before and he received the same letter 3 days before starting after he quit his job, sold his car and sold his whole house full of furniture.
Ditto on the other guy's comments - they did you a favour. Now maybe you will believe this 6 pages of stuff here that you obviously chose to ignore.
Take heed anyone else interested in this place - 6 pages here sums up the management of this airline pretty well. Deske chose to ignore all the friendly warnings and now seems upset at them for acting exactly in the manner which everyone had warned him about.
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I am too young to take anyone's position in a past industrial action,and my origin is from the EU,but flown some years in Asia.To tell the story in sequence,let say Interwiew1 as day1,
-interview2 on day30--(with the request to present a letter of resignation from current airline upon arrival to HKG)
-employment offer on day45-with the commencment date on day90
-signed and returned on day47,
-travel plan comes on day 60
-resigned on day 70 with no obj. letter from current airline-letter forwarded to DA,AS,TW
-employment offer withdrawn on day 75
-reply for my general Qs-(why?)-we dont give any info.........
And finally,job hunting from day75 till day110......
Roughly,thats my story with KA.......
All letters of release(3) were handled on day1
-interview2 on day30--(with the request to present a letter of resignation from current airline upon arrival to HKG)
-employment offer on day45-with the commencment date on day90
-signed and returned on day47,
-travel plan comes on day 60
-resigned on day 70 with no obj. letter from current airline-letter forwarded to DA,AS,TW
-employment offer withdrawn on day 75
-reply for my general Qs-(why?)-we dont give any info.........
And finally,job hunting from day75 till day110......
Roughly,thats my story with KA.......
All letters of release(3) were handled on day1
Last edited by Deske1; 1st Nov 2007 at 18:21.
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Thats a really tough station you got there Deske.
However I'm not surprised in the slightest and I know you may not see it like this right now but you are extremely lucky not to be employed in KA.
However I'm not surprised in the slightest and I know you may not see it like this right now but you are extremely lucky not to be employed in KA.
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Boy oh Boy what a mess
KA has some serious issues.
CX need KA to be successfull but have been too busy parting to realise what's going on.
They cannot keep their own show on the road successfully.
GMO just been fired.. CAD you had better give these operators a warning to pull them into line.
Refer to Swiss cheese article.
Emotional, stressed & overworked pilots in a difficult enviroment like in this part of Asia. Esp with bad SOP & a huge cockpit gradient with new joiners subjected to this stuff is a recipe for dissaster. I'm sure CX will follow at some stage.
This safety factor was one of the major reasons to pay more to employ more experience pilots (ie sacrifice seniority back home) etc.. now u have to scrap the barrel & still little interest. HK public pay a premium for that if an accedent were to happen & they find out what is starting to happen they'll be mad!
At a stage when u are printing money on these routes (basically a manopoly) Something seriouslly wrong with your planning..
KA & CX should be expanding together big time! & building up pilots not knocking back the culture.