how Many are leaving ??
Join Date: Dec 2006
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It's just doesn't make good business sense to run an airline like CX does. If you look at it closely, they turn down most of the people whom they interviewed for pilot jobs and creating tremendous roadblocks to move through the ranks. They hold the captain rank so high that they would rather hold the airline back than upgrade anybody to the leftseat! Talk about bizarre. I DO NOT for 1 second believe that the candidates who failed their command courses were not suitable as these people have been with CX for nearly 10 years some even more. The year I was there, most upgrade candidates failed, either by the post-training review board or being CAT B where you are not even allowed to take a course. At the end of the day, what is Cathay Pacific? Is it not an airline that provides transportation from A to B and therefore need warm bodies in the cockpit to make this happen? Do they not realise that they (the 3rd floor) are holding the airline back with this boot-camp style management?
Those airplanes are not going to fly themselves, they are going to need (and very desperately so) people to occupy those cockpits of the "Shiny" 777s that are due to show up or face the embarassing alternative of parking jets.
For all the hoops that a Cathay pilot has to jump through, does it make CX any safer than anybody else? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Cathay pilots are put through 10 times more work to achieve the same results as QANTAS, ANZ, UAL and the rest of them out there.
Mr. Philip Chen, please lighten up and make some changes, the ship is sinking.
Those airplanes are not going to fly themselves, they are going to need (and very desperately so) people to occupy those cockpits of the "Shiny" 777s that are due to show up or face the embarassing alternative of parking jets.
For all the hoops that a Cathay pilot has to jump through, does it make CX any safer than anybody else? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Cathay pilots are put through 10 times more work to achieve the same results as QANTAS, ANZ, UAL and the rest of them out there.
Mr. Philip Chen, please lighten up and make some changes, the ship is sinking.
Last edited by CAN-NOT!!; 25th Feb 2007 at 21:28.
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Numero,
I'm sorry my friend but you really must be a company plant. I think tryhard made some very good points. He just expressed them a little too strongly. Doesn't mean what he says is not true. You and Titan and cpdude seem to be the 3 stalwarts of the "CX Fan Club" What you fail to ackowledge are the posts here there and everywhere from people who have left in disgust.
Will you please refrain from insulting us further and at least acknowledge that there are "problems" at Cathay.
I'm sorry my friend but you really must be a company plant. I think tryhard made some very good points. He just expressed them a little too strongly. Doesn't mean what he says is not true. You and Titan and cpdude seem to be the 3 stalwarts of the "CX Fan Club" What you fail to ackowledge are the posts here there and everywhere from people who have left in disgust.
Will you please refrain from insulting us further and at least acknowledge that there are "problems" at Cathay.
Sorry if I hijack this thread, but for all S/Os leaving CX how do other major airlines like BA, VS, AA, UA, FedEx, UPS you name it look at a CX S/O typerating? Excuse the pun, but a S/O has only an 'Atari-Typerating' with no hands-on experience in the real thing.
I've been in CX for 14 years and I'm getting a bit sick and tired of all the crap that is said on this site about our standards here. Sure we have a few problems and a few Captains do have attitudes, but they are very much in the minority now. Things have improved a lot. What you yanks have to remember is that this is not the good ol US of A, you work for CX. The operational proceedures you used back home in your F14 or CRJ 200 might have worked real well there but they don't here or anywhere else in Asia. We have to play by the book.
We are a very high standard Airline and are more than equal to BA QF etc etc and I dare say it probably better than AA or UA.
Captains are treated with respect by the other crew and it is returned. ( except by a few bad apples as I said before )
Sure the ERAS system sucks a bit, as does the Star chamber system but at the end of the day if you are prepared to put in the work ( ie actually read the books ) and learn the CX way of running this ship then you will have no problems here. Just don't come here from Boston and try to make it like home, it wont work.
Overall it's a good outfit to be in, the Aircraft are good and you will enjoy the crews you fly with. The Management and the Terms and Conditions on the other hand do need improving.
CAN-NOT 18 month guy??????????? you've been with CX for only 18 months and you think you are an expert on CX?????????????? Exactly what high levels of experience do you have.
I have a lot of friends in a lot of Airlines and I can say that they make their new recruits jump through as many hoops as CX does. And I know for a fact that QF line checks and sim checks are not much fun for the trainee.
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
We are a very high standard Airline and are more than equal to BA QF etc etc and I dare say it probably better than AA or UA.
Captains are treated with respect by the other crew and it is returned. ( except by a few bad apples as I said before )
Sure the ERAS system sucks a bit, as does the Star chamber system but at the end of the day if you are prepared to put in the work ( ie actually read the books ) and learn the CX way of running this ship then you will have no problems here. Just don't come here from Boston and try to make it like home, it wont work.
Overall it's a good outfit to be in, the Aircraft are good and you will enjoy the crews you fly with. The Management and the Terms and Conditions on the other hand do need improving.
CAN-NOT 18 month guy??????????? you've been with CX for only 18 months and you think you are an expert on CX?????????????? Exactly what high levels of experience do you have.
I have a lot of friends in a lot of Airlines and I can say that they make their new recruits jump through as many hoops as CX does. And I know for a fact that QF line checks and sim checks are not much fun for the trainee.
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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ACMS:
Glad to see you back with your usual well balanced view point !
How did you manage to turn this thread into an anti american one ?
This was not just Americans pointing out that this is no longer THE career airline, one could even argue (green grass or not) that this job cannot be viewed as a career airline at all .
Even if you put aside the pedantic, you still have the economics. Those that have left probably did so because of pay and benefits not solely because of working stress conditions etc. The working enviroment just tips the scale in favour of leaving.
As a Captain you probably not too in touch with the rest of the troops. Therefore you are perhaps not aware of the severity of the problem. The moral here is as low as I have seen it. It is not getting better.
As for CAN NOT he does not need any experience to tell him that this place did not work for him.
I too have many friends in other airlines, and most are not as frustrated with their career progression as pilots are here. Ask your friends about their career progression and take an honest look at ours. You will see that there is less stress and intimidation at most other career airlines. Not saying some don't try and come close. Contract jobs are not a picnic but are also not considered career airlines.
FG
Glad to see you back with your usual well balanced view point !
How did you manage to turn this thread into an anti american one ?
This was not just Americans pointing out that this is no longer THE career airline, one could even argue (green grass or not) that this job cannot be viewed as a career airline at all .
Even if you put aside the pedantic, you still have the economics. Those that have left probably did so because of pay and benefits not solely because of working stress conditions etc. The working enviroment just tips the scale in favour of leaving.
As a Captain you probably not too in touch with the rest of the troops. Therefore you are perhaps not aware of the severity of the problem. The moral here is as low as I have seen it. It is not getting better.
As for CAN NOT he does not need any experience to tell him that this place did not work for him.
I too have many friends in other airlines, and most are not as frustrated with their career progression as pilots are here. Ask your friends about their career progression and take an honest look at ours. You will see that there is less stress and intimidation at most other career airlines. Not saying some don't try and come close. Contract jobs are not a picnic but are also not considered career airlines.
FG
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ACMS,
It actually took me about a week to realize I made the wrong decision to quit my job in the U.S. to come to CX then spent the next year and change trying to get out. So yes, 18 months was plenty.
What do you know about our operations in the USA that made you the expert? And frankly, apart of bad ATC, what is so special about flying in Asia? Why do most of you think that the US guys are "non-standard". That's all I ever hear you boys b!tch about was how "non-standard" we are in the USA. So really, tell us all how many different airlines in the USA have you been employed at to know this?
Do I sense a bit of jealousy on your part? Every f*cking time I went flying with a training captain at CX, he always starts off with telling me sh!t about how the "yanks" all unprofessional and yada yada yada. Well, I got news for you little boy, the average pilot from the US have way more hands on experience than most of you pr!cks who sit in a hangar and read books upon books about cr#p nobody ever needs to know.
So do please tell me for the 100th time how the altitude for the escape route is derived, as that sh!t is real important to know despite it's written on the chart and all you gotta do is read it.
Just another "bloody yank"
It actually took me about a week to realize I made the wrong decision to quit my job in the U.S. to come to CX then spent the next year and change trying to get out. So yes, 18 months was plenty.
What do you know about our operations in the USA that made you the expert? And frankly, apart of bad ATC, what is so special about flying in Asia? Why do most of you think that the US guys are "non-standard". That's all I ever hear you boys b!tch about was how "non-standard" we are in the USA. So really, tell us all how many different airlines in the USA have you been employed at to know this?
Do I sense a bit of jealousy on your part? Every f*cking time I went flying with a training captain at CX, he always starts off with telling me sh!t about how the "yanks" all unprofessional and yada yada yada. Well, I got news for you little boy, the average pilot from the US have way more hands on experience than most of you pr!cks who sit in a hangar and read books upon books about cr#p nobody ever needs to know.
So do please tell me for the 100th time how the altitude for the escape route is derived, as that sh!t is real important to know despite it's written on the chart and all you gotta do is read it.
Just another "bloody yank"
Last edited by CAN-NOT!!; 27th Feb 2007 at 02:13.
here's some advice for you pal
GO HOME
or maybe you could go to Iraq, I hear they need a few more Helicopter Pilots for the US ARMY.
Five Greens: go ask a QF Pilot about career progression. I wasn't trying to make it a anti-US reply, but it does seem to me and a lot of other CX guys that our friends from across the Pacific do complain a lot about our "standards"
And yes it should take a lot more than 18 months to develop a clear unbiased factual idea about life in CX. He aint go it, Simple.
GO HOME
or maybe you could go to Iraq, I hear they need a few more Helicopter Pilots for the US ARMY.
Five Greens: go ask a QF Pilot about career progression. I wasn't trying to make it a anti-US reply, but it does seem to me and a lot of other CX guys that our friends from across the Pacific do complain a lot about our "standards"
And yes it should take a lot more than 18 months to develop a clear unbiased factual idea about life in CX. He aint go it, Simple.
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Can I be the diplomat here?
This silly "we do it better than them" has got to stop! Are we still in the schoolyard?
Cx has a very good safety record and trains to a high standard.
I am not so sure that the extra work that they put you through is the reason for this safety record. AA doesn't seem to have it and they do it just as safe, with probably 10 times the sectors per month we have.
In the U.S. they take a more practical approach than their european/oz counterparts, which is just a different way of doing things, and is not less or more safe, in my opinion, just different.
Cx is an airline of diversity, so lets embrace that and learn something from eachother.
This silly "we do it better than them" has got to stop! Are we still in the schoolyard?
Cx has a very good safety record and trains to a high standard.
I am not so sure that the extra work that they put you through is the reason for this safety record. AA doesn't seem to have it and they do it just as safe, with probably 10 times the sectors per month we have.
In the U.S. they take a more practical approach than their european/oz counterparts, which is just a different way of doing things, and is not less or more safe, in my opinion, just different.
Cx is an airline of diversity, so lets embrace that and learn something from eachother.
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And of course ACMS you have experience with both BA and QF to back up your wild boast.???????You have obviously worked for both?? You also scoff at the CRJ 200 and F14, just the type of pilot CX would be targeting I would imagine? Strange argument really!!
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Guys, we whould really be sticking together while we are here. Why is it that all employee groups at Cathay are on each other's throat? That anger needs to be dedicated at someone other than our fellow employees.
I'll admit, each nationality has their own little quirks, but we are all just out there doing the same job. I know you might fly with one guy you don't like that comes from wherever, but don't bunch up everyone from that place as an asshole. I know it is easy to fall into that trap, I've fallen into it myself after some tough sectors, but we really should be looking out for one another.
This thread is about guys leaving. Lets keep it objective. If someone has gripes about cathay, there is nothing wrong with wording them and letting everyone know the reasons why they chose to leave. I think we can agree that most people who read these forums are intelligent adults that realize there are many sides to a story, so no need to go discrediting someone's cathay experience because it is different than yours. Let's not turn this into a ****t-storm (might be a little too late, but we can try).
I know it is corny, but can't we all just get along??? How can one group of people with so much in common disagree so much?
I'll admit, each nationality has their own little quirks, but we are all just out there doing the same job. I know you might fly with one guy you don't like that comes from wherever, but don't bunch up everyone from that place as an asshole. I know it is easy to fall into that trap, I've fallen into it myself after some tough sectors, but we really should be looking out for one another.
This thread is about guys leaving. Lets keep it objective. If someone has gripes about cathay, there is nothing wrong with wording them and letting everyone know the reasons why they chose to leave. I think we can agree that most people who read these forums are intelligent adults that realize there are many sides to a story, so no need to go discrediting someone's cathay experience because it is different than yours. Let's not turn this into a ****t-storm (might be a little too late, but we can try).
I know it is corny, but can't we all just get along??? How can one group of people with so much in common disagree so much?
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OK.... i agree, everyone take a deep breath.
I don't know how this became a USA versus the rest of the world thread, when it shouldn't be. Let stick together and get our CoS improved so that people (who are obviously good pilots, otherwise they wouldn't be here) stop leaving and start enjoying their time off with their families/girlfriends/hookers from fenwicks.
cheers
I don't know how this became a USA versus the rest of the world thread, when it shouldn't be. Let stick together and get our CoS improved so that people (who are obviously good pilots, otherwise they wouldn't be here) stop leaving and start enjoying their time off with their families/girlfriends/hookers from fenwicks.
cheers
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Sorry but I've got nothing in common with ACMS.....this idiot is one of the reasons the place being so miserable....
you arrogant
ACMS.........you obviously learned your CRM from Cathay!!!!
you arrogant
ACMS.........you obviously learned your CRM from Cathay!!!!
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At least you realised CAN-NOT that the system in HK is there to stay, as someone already mentioned, this place is rotten to the core. Corporate culture and you either put up or ship out, be assured it is not just the Americans who find this extremely irritating and simply unacceptable.
Do not take the attitudes displayed here as typically English, I now work for the UK equivalent of ONEWORLD, and we have very good American colleagues here, who are thankfully very much appreciated and part of the team. Twisted individuals with issues would simply not be allowed to degenerate and display themselves to this extent in the old part of the world, not on the line and also not in management.
Keep it coming ACMS, revealing stuff…
Do not take the attitudes displayed here as typically English, I now work for the UK equivalent of ONEWORLD, and we have very good American colleagues here, who are thankfully very much appreciated and part of the team. Twisted individuals with issues would simply not be allowed to degenerate and display themselves to this extent in the old part of the world, not on the line and also not in management.
Keep it coming ACMS, revealing stuff…
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wow
man did this thread get ugly fast!
You guys need to realise that we all have different likes and dislikes and what one of you can't stand the other can abide. Abusing each other over the internet seems a little childish, not to mention ineffectual and a tad insecure. May i suggest that wherever you work you subscribe, as I do, to the two bucket theory.
You have one bucket for money, and one bucket for sh*t, as soon as one of them is full, you leave (the size of the buckets depends on the individual).
Good luck to the guys leaving. Good for them and it can only help the AoA's negotiating position.
You guys need to realise that we all have different likes and dislikes and what one of you can't stand the other can abide. Abusing each other over the internet seems a little childish, not to mention ineffectual and a tad insecure. May i suggest that wherever you work you subscribe, as I do, to the two bucket theory.
You have one bucket for money, and one bucket for sh*t, as soon as one of them is full, you leave (the size of the buckets depends on the individual).
Good luck to the guys leaving. Good for them and it can only help the AoA's negotiating position.