Scab List!
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Scab List!
How bad do you want to get your name on one?
52 professional pilots were sacked last week for doing nothing more than supporting their association!!
If you are considering employment with Cathay Pacific in the near future you would be best advised to wait until every one of my colleague's are returned to full flying duties. I Know things are emmotional right now and many pilots would love to join Cathay Pacific but I assure you that if you accept a job you will find life in Hong Kong harder than it already is. You will not have any friends, no one to have a drink with on outport, no one will be able to look you in the eyes.
You don't need to knowingly do this yourselves or you families. If you join Cathay Pacific before my mates are back here with me you WILL forever in my eyes be "SCABS"!
YOU ARE FORWARNED......
52 professional pilots were sacked last week for doing nothing more than supporting their association!!
If you are considering employment with Cathay Pacific in the near future you would be best advised to wait until every one of my colleague's are returned to full flying duties. I Know things are emmotional right now and many pilots would love to join Cathay Pacific but I assure you that if you accept a job you will find life in Hong Kong harder than it already is. You will not have any friends, no one to have a drink with on outport, no one will be able to look you in the eyes.
You don't need to knowingly do this yourselves or you families. If you join Cathay Pacific before my mates are back here with me you WILL forever in my eyes be "SCABS"!
YOU ARE FORWARNED......
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Oh boy..wondering when the rhetoric would start...by the way, look at your ALPA scablist if you have one, and see how many names on that recently became "members in good standing" when CO voted in the union...there is no strike in progress at CX, nor will there ever be....look up the word scab in the dictionary please...another hollow threat...while entering the fracas in the harbour as a new employee might not be adviseable (I sure wouldn't), you would by no definition be a scab..If IFALPA wants to make jackasses of themselves then so be it...once again hollow threats hot air and just B.S. in general from a union boy...
cxwannabe who registered on July 12 with a yahoo.com address is either out of touch with reality or an imposter.
Should cxwannabe be in CX he does not exhibit any future command making skills and may be nervous about his own position on the pecking order.
I do not believe the sacked crew will be re-employed by CX ( or SQ ) and will have greater difficulty obtaining future employment than that experienced so far by Scott Munro.
Should cxwannabe be in CX he does not exhibit any future command making skills and may be nervous about his own position on the pecking order.
I do not believe the sacked crew will be re-employed by CX ( or SQ ) and will have greater difficulty obtaining future employment than that experienced so far by Scott Munro.
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I would hope after the dust clears, that those who were sacked purely for political reasons (if any) would be re-employed...but the chances are slim...cxwannabee...or aviation wannabee
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After reading the various threads on the CX dispute I feel I must comment.
I am not management of any outfit and I have no intention to be. Call me spineless or a scab I don't give a damn.
The question must be asked, If you don't like the conditions and are not happy in your present employment, why don't you find alternative employment elsewhere? If you are as good and of such high quality as some of you suggest you are, it should not be that difficult I'm damned sure when conditions get so bad in my present job, that I am unable to work, I'll be off. Done it before and will do the same again.
With your industrial action you will not achieve anything positive. The truth is people will never stick together as a group, pilots included. Therefore we are all subject to the oldest management trick in the book, divide and rule. The sooner you lot realise this the better. You will not win in the long term. You can be replaced, or are some of you so deluded you think you are indispensable? There are people out there who would give their right arm to be given the job that some of you people have and for half the salaries, that's the reality. Could they do the job as well as you? Probably and be a lot less trouble.
So wind your necks in and get back to work.
I am not management of any outfit and I have no intention to be. Call me spineless or a scab I don't give a damn.
The question must be asked, If you don't like the conditions and are not happy in your present employment, why don't you find alternative employment elsewhere? If you are as good and of such high quality as some of you suggest you are, it should not be that difficult I'm damned sure when conditions get so bad in my present job, that I am unable to work, I'll be off. Done it before and will do the same again.
With your industrial action you will not achieve anything positive. The truth is people will never stick together as a group, pilots included. Therefore we are all subject to the oldest management trick in the book, divide and rule. The sooner you lot realise this the better. You will not win in the long term. You can be replaced, or are some of you so deluded you think you are indispensable? There are people out there who would give their right arm to be given the job that some of you people have and for half the salaries, that's the reality. Could they do the job as well as you? Probably and be a lot less trouble.
So wind your necks in and get back to work.
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A sensible post at last. Elsewhere in this CX forum I expressed my personal views. Perhaps the truth hurts since there was little response. Sit back, look at your bank account and provident fund, take a look at your family photos and ask yourself if you want to be led down the road to dispair by the vitriolic blinkered minds shown in this CX forum at present, or the ability of your less than capable Union playing for high stakes with your careers without due reference to you. So who has been awarded the captains' positions to replace those departees, and the FO's? Have they refused ? Did they take the jobs or must they recruit outside at a better price ?
I hate to see such obviously intelligent people who can fly a hi tech piece of equipment so well be so inane beyond their sphere of expertise to their own detriment.
Oh what the hell, go and get yourselves fired and I'll fly SQ in the meantime till it all settles out, which it will, whatever you cook up.
I hate to see such obviously intelligent people who can fly a hi tech piece of equipment so well be so inane beyond their sphere of expertise to their own detriment.
Oh what the hell, go and get yourselves fired and I'll fly SQ in the meantime till it all settles out, which it will, whatever you cook up.
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I will reply to your threads one at a time;
Loc -Out; The sackinggs were political, union busting and desperate. A strike in Hong Kong is AGAINST THE LAW. Scab is not in the dictionary and the meaning is evolving. In our case a person knowingly accepting a job that was taken in this dispute is a SCAB. As far as IFALPA calling for a hiring ban, why are you calling them jack asses they are a steward of your profession whether you are at the airline level or not. Some inconvinience at the hiring stage is much better than indesciminate firing (sacking) 25 years into your career. You must be too young to see that yet.
772 Well...command making skills???? you probably mean command potential. A commander must be able to make decisions for himself, make difficult decisions, all the 52 have those qualities, and then some.
Scott Munro will work again as will the 52 of my brothers. SQ has little to do with it. Once you realize that a majority of AOA members know that there is life outside CX ,are willing to lay their jobs on the line and will see this to the end you ,might understand.
And finally LOC-OUT...
Where to start. Well you might begin by saying that you would take a job from a union martyr. In the end you would not find any happiness in it. If you had a grievence with a company, if you were treated unfairly or if you had your pay, conditions and benifits reduced you would have no one to blame but yourself. You may want to stay at an airline some day, instead of putting your family through the upheaval of moving, training, and starting at the bottom.
You are abseolutely right about divide and conquer but we will not be divided.
AOA 100%
Enjoy aviation
Cheers
Loc -Out; The sackinggs were political, union busting and desperate. A strike in Hong Kong is AGAINST THE LAW. Scab is not in the dictionary and the meaning is evolving. In our case a person knowingly accepting a job that was taken in this dispute is a SCAB. As far as IFALPA calling for a hiring ban, why are you calling them jack asses they are a steward of your profession whether you are at the airline level or not. Some inconvinience at the hiring stage is much better than indesciminate firing (sacking) 25 years into your career. You must be too young to see that yet.
772 Well...command making skills???? you probably mean command potential. A commander must be able to make decisions for himself, make difficult decisions, all the 52 have those qualities, and then some.
Scott Munro will work again as will the 52 of my brothers. SQ has little to do with it. Once you realize that a majority of AOA members know that there is life outside CX ,are willing to lay their jobs on the line and will see this to the end you ,might understand.
And finally LOC-OUT...
Where to start. Well you might begin by saying that you would take a job from a union martyr. In the end you would not find any happiness in it. If you had a grievence with a company, if you were treated unfairly or if you had your pay, conditions and benifits reduced you would have no one to blame but yourself. You may want to stay at an airline some day, instead of putting your family through the upheaval of moving, training, and starting at the bottom.
You are abseolutely right about divide and conquer but we will not be divided.
AOA 100%
Enjoy aviation
Cheers
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Mo Man Tai;
Sorry I missed your reply in the first post.
So you think that an outside post represents a sensible post, well that is spoken like a true outsider.
As far as the bank account and provident fund, that will all be gone the minute that a manager takes a dislike to us and we are sacked. Gone, and along with it all the savings we have amassed as well. No exaggeration the company's sackings are a major financial blow to all. To those fired immediately and to those to be fired in the future. That is exactly why we must have some rules by which we can protect our jobs from indescriminate management aggression.
Carreers at CX: What kind of career can end at a moments notice with no justification? What kind of career has no protection ? Any representation that stands against a management dedicated to controlling pilots instead of working with them is good representation.
Captains' upgrades: Well aren't you jumping the gun a little. We are 7 days post sackings. The HKAOA has a game plan. There are further developements to come.
Intelligence: Well you have hit the nail on the head. If pilots were not intelligent they would not know that they were being so badly screwed. We are expected to fly to the letter of the operations manuals, aircraft manuals, jeppeson manuals, MELS, NOTAMS, FTDLs, and most importantly company employment contracts. When the management sees fit to change the contract, alter the conditions or change the interpretations, they will do so. We are used to a regulated industry governed by rules, rules not to be broken. Cathay Pacific feels it can break a contract or change wording/interpretation whenever it chooses. We are smart enough to know what is out there, to know what we are worth, and to see through all the company propaganda. It is all about intelligence.
SPHERE OF EXPERTISE: My sphere of expertise is aviation, my life is aviaiton, if this is to be aviation to come, I would gladly see CX crumble rather than give in.
Please do fly SQ. Please continue to do that in the future.
If nothing else Cathay Pacific has proven that they cannot handle expansion. They cannot handle hiring, they cannot handle training, they cannot handle aircraft aquisition, they have know idea of what it would take to survivie in anything less than a monopoly. Perhaps they really are not deserving of their rights in CLK and Hong Kong. This would be entirely the fault of the current Flight Operations management.
SAFE FLYING
Cheers
Sorry I missed your reply in the first post.
So you think that an outside post represents a sensible post, well that is spoken like a true outsider.
As far as the bank account and provident fund, that will all be gone the minute that a manager takes a dislike to us and we are sacked. Gone, and along with it all the savings we have amassed as well. No exaggeration the company's sackings are a major financial blow to all. To those fired immediately and to those to be fired in the future. That is exactly why we must have some rules by which we can protect our jobs from indescriminate management aggression.
Carreers at CX: What kind of career can end at a moments notice with no justification? What kind of career has no protection ? Any representation that stands against a management dedicated to controlling pilots instead of working with them is good representation.
Captains' upgrades: Well aren't you jumping the gun a little. We are 7 days post sackings. The HKAOA has a game plan. There are further developements to come.
Intelligence: Well you have hit the nail on the head. If pilots were not intelligent they would not know that they were being so badly screwed. We are expected to fly to the letter of the operations manuals, aircraft manuals, jeppeson manuals, MELS, NOTAMS, FTDLs, and most importantly company employment contracts. When the management sees fit to change the contract, alter the conditions or change the interpretations, they will do so. We are used to a regulated industry governed by rules, rules not to be broken. Cathay Pacific feels it can break a contract or change wording/interpretation whenever it chooses. We are smart enough to know what is out there, to know what we are worth, and to see through all the company propaganda. It is all about intelligence.
SPHERE OF EXPERTISE: My sphere of expertise is aviation, my life is aviaiton, if this is to be aviation to come, I would gladly see CX crumble rather than give in.
Please do fly SQ. Please continue to do that in the future.
If nothing else Cathay Pacific has proven that they cannot handle expansion. They cannot handle hiring, they cannot handle training, they cannot handle aircraft aquisition, they have know idea of what it would take to survivie in anything less than a monopoly. Perhaps they really are not deserving of their rights in CLK and Hong Kong. This would be entirely the fault of the current Flight Operations management.
SAFE FLYING
Cheers
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"nullThe question must be asked, If you don't like the conditions and are not happy in your present employment, why don't you find alternative employment elsewhere?"
What an assinine comment.
What would YOU do at every turn when things get difficult? Pack up and go home? Your resume must be long indeed with all the companies you've left after "not liking it".
It is not in a Professional's make up to up and quit. One strives to make the workplace a better place to work. By bringing constructive criticisim to the fore, one improves not only one's own lot, but those of all Pilots. Have you never been de-briefed on points that you could do better after a sim evaluation? Do we not all accept criticism and move on to better ourselves?
The company's childish "my way or the highway" attitude will cripple it in the future. The workforce has a long memory and will not tolerate draconian management tactics. I predict that all the Pilots will be reinstated without prejudice and that a serious management shake-up will ensue.
All the best, and chin up to my brother's at CX, from a former resident of the Fragrant Harbour. You have my support.
TTFN
What an assinine comment.
What would YOU do at every turn when things get difficult? Pack up and go home? Your resume must be long indeed with all the companies you've left after "not liking it".
It is not in a Professional's make up to up and quit. One strives to make the workplace a better place to work. By bringing constructive criticisim to the fore, one improves not only one's own lot, but those of all Pilots. Have you never been de-briefed on points that you could do better after a sim evaluation? Do we not all accept criticism and move on to better ourselves?
The company's childish "my way or the highway" attitude will cripple it in the future. The workforce has a long memory and will not tolerate draconian management tactics. I predict that all the Pilots will be reinstated without prejudice and that a serious management shake-up will ensue.
All the best, and chin up to my brother's at CX, from a former resident of the Fragrant Harbour. You have my support.
TTFN
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cxwannabe,
for those of us not involved with cx can you give us a run-down on why these pilots were sacked. When I read this thread I get the feeling there is not much support among your flying friends. Which I on one hand find par for the course, and on the other a bit strange.
I know, and so should you, that it is close to impossible to have pilots pull at the same end of the rope. I have seen it more than once in my career, and you would probably see it again when they all line up for an interview with cx. Survival of the fittest, some call it.
But the lack of support. When the Chairman of the Ryanair Pilot Union is sacked, the thread is filled with support in a couple of days.
Tell us more.
for those of us not involved with cx can you give us a run-down on why these pilots were sacked. When I read this thread I get the feeling there is not much support among your flying friends. Which I on one hand find par for the course, and on the other a bit strange.
I know, and so should you, that it is close to impossible to have pilots pull at the same end of the rope. I have seen it more than once in my career, and you would probably see it again when they all line up for an interview with cx. Survival of the fittest, some call it.
But the lack of support. When the Chairman of the Ryanair Pilot Union is sacked, the thread is filled with support in a couple of days.
Tell us more.
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cxwannabe...I should of replied earlier.....Pull your head in.....As if all pilots around the world are going to turn down an interview with Cathay before your "brothers" get re-employed. It won't happen!!! The pilots wanting to join CX have got no gripe with you. It's between you and management. Pilots' wont put there future plans on hold to suit a few!!! Well I wouldn't anyway!!!
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Limanovember,
Thanks for your reply. Recently WE at CX finally got our own private forum and since then almost all CX pilots have chosen not to enter into debate on the issues with outsiders and wannabes on this forum. Many posters on this forum in the past have been extremely inflammatory in their views and comments! Many are managers from within CX. Many are just pissed off passengers or perhaps Wannabes. We the pilots within CX are better off expelling our energies within a known group as opposed to trying to convince Joe Public who's right or wrong. We the employees at CX know the truth about what's going on and we the employees need to work as one to resolve these very issues. No one will rest until my 52 mates are re-instated! They were not fired for any labour action they were victims in a powerfull attempt to once and for all break our association/ union and have a subserviant work force. The issues are complicated as they always are. If you yourself are a pilot you'll understand the core issues are not renumeration but rostering, flight time limitations, and benifits. Many of us here would rather fight the fight here now rather than later. I've been here for more than 6 years and don't want to throw that away as I'm sure many others also don't want to do BUT it's time we got a life, a roster and some respect! Our rosters have been in shambles as long as I have been here and WHEN we win this battle this will once again be a fine company to be employed by (ie: pre-1983) It's been 8 years of slashing and burning here and the time to end is soon. Time to grow this company into what it is destined to become but not without my fallen comrades!
Please don't fall into the trap of thinking or believing that any one who lost their job deserved it or had it coming! We have a disiplinary and grievence procedure that our employeer should have used in a case worthy of being sacked. The fact of the matter is that 52 of these men are fine people with families to feed and NOWHERE in the civilized world do people deserve to be treated with such contempt.
The management of CX are running scared we are as united as ever and we are winning the fight for truth, honour and justice. Slowly the media here in Hong Kong is starting to ask questions themselves. A CX manager BTW was quoted several weeks age as saying "all we need to do is sack 20-30 pilots and watch the rest fall into line!" How would any of you feel if you or a good mate of yours was in that 50??? Would you put your job on the line for your best mate who was wrongfully vicimized?
I WILL because its the right thing to do!!
We are going to win this mark my words!
Thanks for your reply. Recently WE at CX finally got our own private forum and since then almost all CX pilots have chosen not to enter into debate on the issues with outsiders and wannabes on this forum. Many posters on this forum in the past have been extremely inflammatory in their views and comments! Many are managers from within CX. Many are just pissed off passengers or perhaps Wannabes. We the pilots within CX are better off expelling our energies within a known group as opposed to trying to convince Joe Public who's right or wrong. We the employees at CX know the truth about what's going on and we the employees need to work as one to resolve these very issues. No one will rest until my 52 mates are re-instated! They were not fired for any labour action they were victims in a powerfull attempt to once and for all break our association/ union and have a subserviant work force. The issues are complicated as they always are. If you yourself are a pilot you'll understand the core issues are not renumeration but rostering, flight time limitations, and benifits. Many of us here would rather fight the fight here now rather than later. I've been here for more than 6 years and don't want to throw that away as I'm sure many others also don't want to do BUT it's time we got a life, a roster and some respect! Our rosters have been in shambles as long as I have been here and WHEN we win this battle this will once again be a fine company to be employed by (ie: pre-1983) It's been 8 years of slashing and burning here and the time to end is soon. Time to grow this company into what it is destined to become but not without my fallen comrades!
Please don't fall into the trap of thinking or believing that any one who lost their job deserved it or had it coming! We have a disiplinary and grievence procedure that our employeer should have used in a case worthy of being sacked. The fact of the matter is that 52 of these men are fine people with families to feed and NOWHERE in the civilized world do people deserve to be treated with such contempt.
The management of CX are running scared we are as united as ever and we are winning the fight for truth, honour and justice. Slowly the media here in Hong Kong is starting to ask questions themselves. A CX manager BTW was quoted several weeks age as saying "all we need to do is sack 20-30 pilots and watch the rest fall into line!" How would any of you feel if you or a good mate of yours was in that 50??? Would you put your job on the line for your best mate who was wrongfully vicimized?
I WILL because its the right thing to do!!
We are going to win this mark my words!
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cxwannabe you are both naive and wrong.
Naive if you believe that what is happening in HK comes even close to a stike or anything even resembling such an industrial action. Not only does a worker have rights, but surprise surprise so doe management - without both the workplace would be anarchic and chaos.
Both words you can look up in a reputable dictionary along with "scab" - which is there in the meaning to which you thought you were referring.
Naive if you believe that what is happening in HK comes even close to a stike or anything even resembling such an industrial action. Not only does a worker have rights, but surprise surprise so doe management - without both the workplace would be anarchic and chaos.
Both words you can look up in a reputable dictionary along with "scab" - which is there in the meaning to which you thought you were referring.
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EYES WIDE SHUT,
Only when you've actually been here do you realize the importants of making a move like that. Well let me tell you something. Taking a job during a dispute in which people have lost their livlyhoods and their families are in disarray is not going to make you many friends. Why not wait a few weeks or months till its all over and you can join on a good contract??
After all it's already won. Just a matter of how much CX is willing to spend.....
[ 18 July 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
Only when you've actually been here do you realize the importants of making a move like that. Well let me tell you something. Taking a job during a dispute in which people have lost their livlyhoods and their families are in disarray is not going to make you many friends. Why not wait a few weeks or months till its all over and you can join on a good contract??
After all it's already won. Just a matter of how much CX is willing to spend.....
[ 18 July 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
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CXwannabe.
You have some serious issues... Or you are CXmanagement ( I think ). Your posts are counter productive for both groups and demonstrate your level of intelligence.
I hope the best for Cathay pilots in their rightful struggle for better conditions.
I will be calling AOA soon to find their official standing on pilot recruitment and hiring. CXWannabe is no authority especially as this is AN ANONYMOUS FORUM.
Oh I am nor a scab or a pilot for CX... USed to want to work for them. But now... don't think so.
You have some serious issues... Or you are CXmanagement ( I think ). Your posts are counter productive for both groups and demonstrate your level of intelligence.
I hope the best for Cathay pilots in their rightful struggle for better conditions.
I will be calling AOA soon to find their official standing on pilot recruitment and hiring. CXWannabe is no authority especially as this is AN ANONYMOUS FORUM.
Oh I am nor a scab or a pilot for CX... USed to want to work for them. But now... don't think so.
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Eyeswideshut has the perfect moniker... Closed to all but what is important to him. Closed so that he doesn't realize that if it can happen to the "other guy" it can just as easily happen to him! Closed to the working's and history of organized labour.
The perfect place for him is the French Foreign Legion and North Africa of the '20's! The Mercenaries would be proud of his attitude.
What an imbacile...
TTYL
The perfect place for him is the French Foreign Legion and North Africa of the '20's! The Mercenaries would be proud of his attitude.
What an imbacile...
TTYL