French licence conversion to CAA UK
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MATMAX, Safety Concerns, this is not about who's system is better and what you have or what you haven't got, it is about answering the questions asked by aztek as accurately as we can to help him achieve his goal.
If you both, and you seem to have, the urge to rub yourselves up against someone like a couple of prepubescent school boys, go do it somewhere else and let the rest of us get back to trying to help the guy with what we know about the system, myself, I couldn't care less if one Country has approvals or licences, but obviously in the Far East they do, and he is asking a perfectly reasonable question, just because you disagree with one being better than the other does not help his predicament of wanting to get employed out there.
If you both, and you seem to have, the urge to rub yourselves up against someone like a couple of prepubescent school boys, go do it somewhere else and let the rest of us get back to trying to help the guy with what we know about the system, myself, I couldn't care less if one Country has approvals or licences, but obviously in the Far East they do, and he is asking a perfectly reasonable question, just because you disagree with one being better than the other does not help his predicament of wanting to get employed out there.
Last edited by NutLoose; 29th Jul 2010 at 22:13.
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I think the answer is clear and as madmax states.
You have a french licence, live with it.
I have English, Australian, UAE, FAA. I don't have French and have no intention of obtaining one (unless its free like in France) and I most certainly don't want to severely restrict my employment prospects by having one.
You have a french licence, live with it.
I have English, Australian, UAE, FAA. I don't have French and have no intention of obtaining one (unless its free like in France) and I most certainly don't want to severely restrict my employment prospects by having one.
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Nutloose, thanks for put this discussion at its basic topic... misters Matmax and SC, please if have nothing to do, you can watch a porn movie for destress...
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Now, i'm sure that i'm ****** for manage to work in asia...also that the EASA part66 is a fiction, due to the fact that each country impose their ouwn laws and interpretations...but i'm sure there are some reasons why company at the far east accept only european licence issued in uk. The answer of the CAA for me is clear that there are some agreement beetwem UK regulation and some asian country...is french there is an expression who said "reponse de langue de bois"...
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It was a base release actually (Cat C). Now dare I say who for?
ummmm. who never land before the runway because of frozen fuel in the engines ...the first european airline for the 380.
I wonder could it be so?
oh today is "Le plus beau jour de ma vie"
ummmm. who never land before the runway because of frozen fuel in the engines ...the first european airline for the 380.
I wonder could it be so?
oh today is "Le plus beau jour de ma vie"
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SC,
you said that you get the gcaa License , you are talking about BA , and about 380 , so i think that i get an idea about your present employer ...
It can not be ek , because nobody there get a free access to the net at work except if you brought the file you have to sign (C release) at home , sorry i do not think it was 3 seconds ago ...
anyway , good French words without mistakes , are you learning French ?
if so you should have understood the statement from wiki about BA ...
Brgds.
MM.
you said that you get the gcaa License , you are talking about BA , and about 380 , so i think that i get an idea about your present employer ...
It can not be ek , because nobody there get a free access to the net at work except if you brought the file you have to sign (C release) at home , sorry i do not think it was 3 seconds ago ...
anyway , good French words without mistakes , are you learning French ?
if so you should have understood the statement from wiki about BA ...
Brgds.
MM.
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This whole UK CAA license being best, kind of irritates me. Personally, I've got an Irish license, and it was gained through sitting the exact same amount of exams, and with the same stringent application of the rules in Part 66.
If anything the Brits have a lot to answer for in the way the route to a Part 66 license has gone. Seen guys in Norwich not too long ago paying thousands of pounds to get "experience" and that probably after paying thousands for their basic training course as well. Then suddenly before they've hair on their balls they've a B license and their parents bank account is empty.
In all fairness, the exams are important to insure a theoretical standard during your initial training and it's good that there's an attempt at having a standard. However the real training towards being a licensed engineer is surely the experience you gain on the job as a technician being mentored and critiqued by a licensed engineer on each job you do till you understand the high standards required, and have a broad range of experience. This is why I think that an apprenticeship with a company who has a vested interest in you becoming a professional engineer (not in how deep your pockets are) is the way to go.
In relation to conversions from the older systems what's the point in a guy who's already certifying on aircraft having to sit 12 or 13 modules to convert his old license/approvals to an EASA license? Are they going to gain a whole amount of knowledge required to do their job that they don't already have? The only real gainer in that one is the National AA's and the 147 schools sitting the exams, screwing more €€€'s out of people.
I've met excellent/rubbish engineers from all over Europe and some of the best ones I know have got their licenses in a cereal box and some of the worst ones I know got them in them in the UK and vice versa.
Moral of the story it's your experience on the job that matters not how many airmech questions you've memorised.
With regards to AF, if half the story's are true, then wouldn't do your apprenticeship there.
If anything the Brits have a lot to answer for in the way the route to a Part 66 license has gone. Seen guys in Norwich not too long ago paying thousands of pounds to get "experience" and that probably after paying thousands for their basic training course as well. Then suddenly before they've hair on their balls they've a B license and their parents bank account is empty.
In all fairness, the exams are important to insure a theoretical standard during your initial training and it's good that there's an attempt at having a standard. However the real training towards being a licensed engineer is surely the experience you gain on the job as a technician being mentored and critiqued by a licensed engineer on each job you do till you understand the high standards required, and have a broad range of experience. This is why I think that an apprenticeship with a company who has a vested interest in you becoming a professional engineer (not in how deep your pockets are) is the way to go.
In relation to conversions from the older systems what's the point in a guy who's already certifying on aircraft having to sit 12 or 13 modules to convert his old license/approvals to an EASA license? Are they going to gain a whole amount of knowledge required to do their job that they don't already have? The only real gainer in that one is the National AA's and the 147 schools sitting the exams, screwing more €€€'s out of people.
I've met excellent/rubbish engineers from all over Europe and some of the best ones I know have got their licenses in a cereal box and some of the worst ones I know got them in them in the UK and vice versa.
Moral of the story it's your experience on the job that matters not how many airmech questions you've memorised.
With regards to AF, if half the story's are true, then wouldn't do your apprenticeship there.
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Bravo and thanks very much grafity !
do i prefer Irish than Brits ? maybe ...
i did my 3 years apprenticeship with AF in the 90s (we were going out from school only for week-ends !)...and then been graduated with a CAP.
now , as most of you do not know what a CAP is , i will put you on the way , that means : Certificat Aptitude Professionnelle , do you understand these French words ?
there were two different options : T1 or T2 , does that remind you something ?
ouf ! there is here one guy who knows something else than whats going on in UK !
Brgds.
MM.
do i prefer Irish than Brits ? maybe ...
i did my 3 years apprenticeship with AF in the 90s (we were going out from school only for week-ends !)...and then been graduated with a CAP.
now , as most of you do not know what a CAP is , i will put you on the way , that means : Certificat Aptitude Professionnelle , do you understand these French words ?
there were two different options : T1 or T2 , does that remind you something ?
ouf ! there is here one guy who knows something else than whats going on in UK !
Brgds.
MM.
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The Irish apprenticeship system is a 4 year apprenticeship with 7 phases alternating between 'on the job' and collage. It worked well, you get a chance to absorb and relate the theory while on the job meanwhile gaining the required experience.
I suspect you refer to the B1 B2s originating from T1 T2s which is fair enough and probably a simplistic concept. On the other hand, whoever convinced EASA (I suspect the infallible UK CAA) that someone who does a so called 147 approved basic course requires a years less experience than someone who has an apprenticeship, obviously had more interest in insuring money hungry schools staying open than aircraft safety.
I don't want to knock the whole UK system as I know some excellent engineers that come from the UK and went through what sound like excellent apprenticeship programs.
I suspect you refer to the B1 B2s originating from T1 T2s which is fair enough and probably a simplistic concept. On the other hand, whoever convinced EASA (I suspect the infallible UK CAA) that someone who does a so called 147 approved basic course requires a years less experience than someone who has an apprenticeship, obviously had more interest in insuring money hungry schools staying open than aircraft safety.
I don't want to knock the whole UK system as I know some excellent engineers that come from the UK and went through what sound like excellent apprenticeship programs.
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grafity,
the apprenticeship i have just explained was happening like this 20 years ago , Mate , i am 38 years old ...
this school does not exist anymore ...
nowadays in France , IT IS QUITE THE SAME AS EVERYWHERE IN EUROPE !
i will ask to the apprentices that i get now , if these young w..k..s are ready to go out from facebook at work ! aztek , are you watching porn movies at work ? if you are on a computer , i would suggest you to learn more about A/C and about english speaking as it looks like your level is low and thats maybe the reason why people are not interested in you !
are you going to answer in SMS language ?
now , if you have nothing else to do , i would also suggest you to go away from computers and go help your collegues !
Masen , is it a French name ???
SC , you said that you have an english License , so you should know that it is impossible for you to get a French License , even if it is free of charge , French DGAC is not making money from Engineers ...
Last stuff , my dear new friend , believe me , my French EASA License is absolutely not restricting my employment prospects ... because experienced prospectives employers can understand what it is written in my resume and then understand how i have been trained and how i gained the types who are now on my FRENCH EASA LICENSE , who is not a credit card like the FAA or GCAA ...
Are you learning French with some AIB Field Reps ?
Brgds.
MM.
the apprenticeship i have just explained was happening like this 20 years ago , Mate , i am 38 years old ...
this school does not exist anymore ...
nowadays in France , IT IS QUITE THE SAME AS EVERYWHERE IN EUROPE !
i will ask to the apprentices that i get now , if these young w..k..s are ready to go out from facebook at work ! aztek , are you watching porn movies at work ? if you are on a computer , i would suggest you to learn more about A/C and about english speaking as it looks like your level is low and thats maybe the reason why people are not interested in you !
are you going to answer in SMS language ?
now , if you have nothing else to do , i would also suggest you to go away from computers and go help your collegues !
Masen , is it a French name ???
SC , you said that you have an english License , so you should know that it is impossible for you to get a French License , even if it is free of charge , French DGAC is not making money from Engineers ...
Last stuff , my dear new friend , believe me , my French EASA License is absolutely not restricting my employment prospects ... because experienced prospectives employers can understand what it is written in my resume and then understand how i have been trained and how i gained the types who are now on my FRENCH EASA LICENSE , who is not a credit card like the FAA or GCAA ...
Are you learning French with some AIB Field Reps ?
Brgds.
MM.
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You seem to carry a lot of chips on your shoulder Matmax. Remember that those young w..k..s you refer too are the future of your airline and it's your job, along with all senior members of staff, to mentor them.
Why do they have access to Facebook at work? Simple solution is don't give them access to the internet. Give them manuals to study if they're bored.
There seems to be a lot of your type around that hate the sight of apprentices, they seem to forget that they were apprentices once themselves.
You complain about Aztecs level of English. My English isn't a 100%, and I'm sure Aztec doesn't profess to having 100% English either, but his proficiency seems to be a lot higher and his posts are a lot easier to understand than yours, so I wouldn't be so quick to cast judgement. You keep commenting on whether or not people understand French phrases, the reality I'm afraid, is that the Aviation language is English. An bhfuil tú ag cáint as gaeilge? Understand that? Do you care whether you do or not?
Anyway, to bring the thread back on track, it is a pity an EASA license isn't accepted as a standard over the world. It's a possibility though that it's as much a political/arrangement issue as it is a safety concern.
Just out of interest, what would be involved in getting FAA A&P license? I know a number of lads who have both EASA and A&P, don't know what was involved in it getting it though. Not only would you be able to apply for the Malaysian jobs but it may also open a lot of other doors you didn't expect. Just a thought.
Regards..
Why do they have access to Facebook at work? Simple solution is don't give them access to the internet. Give them manuals to study if they're bored.
There seems to be a lot of your type around that hate the sight of apprentices, they seem to forget that they were apprentices once themselves.
You complain about Aztecs level of English. My English isn't a 100%, and I'm sure Aztec doesn't profess to having 100% English either, but his proficiency seems to be a lot higher and his posts are a lot easier to understand than yours, so I wouldn't be so quick to cast judgement. You keep commenting on whether or not people understand French phrases, the reality I'm afraid, is that the Aviation language is English. An bhfuil tú ag cáint as gaeilge? Understand that? Do you care whether you do or not?
Anyway, to bring the thread back on track, it is a pity an EASA license isn't accepted as a standard over the world. It's a possibility though that it's as much a political/arrangement issue as it is a safety concern.
Just out of interest, what would be involved in getting FAA A&P license? I know a number of lads who have both EASA and A&P, don't know what was involved in it getting it though. Not only would you be able to apply for the Malaysian jobs but it may also open a lot of other doors you didn't expect. Just a thought.
Regards..
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Grafity: You beat me to it!
I would say it is a polictical issue like most things in the European 'Community'.
How faceless, non aircraft orientated people in Koeln can dictate aviation policy in Europe is far beyond me.
Basic requirements for getting a FAA A&P license are:
2. Sit x3 CBT exams (General, Airframe and Powerplant 70% pass mark)
3. Pass oral and practical examination.
As SC says probably the best one to have as regards to job oppuntunities and flexibility.
I would say it is a polictical issue like most things in the European 'Community'.
How faceless, non aircraft orientated people in Koeln can dictate aviation policy in Europe is far beyond me.
Basic requirements for getting a FAA A&P license are:
1. Get your application indorsed/signed by a FAA Flight Safety District
Office
You normally have to prove you work on 'N' registered A/C.Office
2. Sit x3 CBT exams (General, Airframe and Powerplant 70% pass mark)
3. Pass oral and practical examination.
As SC says probably the best one to have as regards to job oppuntunities and flexibility.
Last edited by Whinging Tinny; 31st Jul 2010 at 13:13.
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Matmax since your first post you peace me off...you represented the perfect image of the basic french AF enginneer, arrogant and reactionary...i know what i say, i did my training in AF, the gender of men like you helped to ensure in france a low level of mind, of professionnal standart. That why since my first contracting in italy with british company, i'm trying more possible to avoid working in france, because i'm sure to meet some guy's like you.
You understood nothing about the purpose of my thread, and if you are not happy about my english, you can send a complaint to the Queen...
I'm french,i'm proud of it and i don't care about you!
Masen
You understood nothing about the purpose of my thread, and if you are not happy about my english, you can send a complaint to the Queen...
I'm french,i'm proud of it and i don't care about you!
Masen
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To be honest through my eyes as an EASA B1 and C licenced Engineer, and also the holder of a CAA Licence, I do not see it as one Engineer being better than another, I have seen bad engineers holding licences the world over, and good ones having none.............
The reasoning I can see behind the Asian situation is, in the past they employed CAA licenced Engineers and were obviously happy with the "Standard or quality" of those Engineers they employed, therefore why change what you know to be a winning format, and with the change over they have simply continued to source their Engineers from the UK...... languages may also be an issue as well as, and before you ask I am not slagging off any other countries.........
Another one and perhaps a fundamental one and again, I am not having a go at any other countries, but the CAA play by the book, and where other countries would simply convert licences or approvals over to the EASA licence, the CAA will not, therefore to do electrical work a licenced engineer in the UK is required to sit those modules to bring their licences up to full none limited licences.....
Countries like Denmark possibly and maybe France I believe just issued licences with no limitation on and converted them straight across.... PLEASE CONFIRM THIS IF YOU KNOW.
Now I know those that have just recieved licences post EASA would have had to do all the courses to clear them, but those prior would not,
Therefore if I was seeking an engineer I would look at
One............ are they compatible with our old system IE the CAA one we previously used.
Two........... If they have a full licence have they actually completed the extra modules required to hold it and which country did......... UK
Three........... Do they have a full command of the language used in our facility............ English.....
Because there was not an even playing field on the issue of licences as I see it from what I know/ believe, there will be differences as to how those licences are perceived........... which is what we have in Asia.
Aztek I can understand not issuing a UK licence to a French licenced engineer or indeed any engineer in Europe, because if you have your licenced removed off you in say France for a serious error, then you could carry on certifiying on your UK one........ I think that is the reason you cannot hold 2.............. does not stop Doctors though
The reasoning I can see behind the Asian situation is, in the past they employed CAA licenced Engineers and were obviously happy with the "Standard or quality" of those Engineers they employed, therefore why change what you know to be a winning format, and with the change over they have simply continued to source their Engineers from the UK...... languages may also be an issue as well as, and before you ask I am not slagging off any other countries.........
Another one and perhaps a fundamental one and again, I am not having a go at any other countries, but the CAA play by the book, and where other countries would simply convert licences or approvals over to the EASA licence, the CAA will not, therefore to do electrical work a licenced engineer in the UK is required to sit those modules to bring their licences up to full none limited licences.....
Countries like Denmark possibly and maybe France I believe just issued licences with no limitation on and converted them straight across.... PLEASE CONFIRM THIS IF YOU KNOW.
Now I know those that have just recieved licences post EASA would have had to do all the courses to clear them, but those prior would not,
Therefore if I was seeking an engineer I would look at
One............ are they compatible with our old system IE the CAA one we previously used.
Two........... If they have a full licence have they actually completed the extra modules required to hold it and which country did......... UK
Three........... Do they have a full command of the language used in our facility............ English.....
Because there was not an even playing field on the issue of licences as I see it from what I know/ believe, there will be differences as to how those licences are perceived........... which is what we have in Asia.
Aztek I can understand not issuing a UK licence to a French licenced engineer or indeed any engineer in Europe, because if you have your licenced removed off you in say France for a serious error, then you could carry on certifiying on your UK one........ I think that is the reason you cannot hold 2.............. does not stop Doctors though
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aztek kid,
first of all , get some respect to older Engineers , OK .
second , as it looks to me that you do not know about the rules , read them first before asking.
third , nobody learnt you that when you do not know something , the best way of acting was to shut-up instead of saying stupid things.
did you copy kid ?
poor France , thats the next generation ...
first of all , get some respect to older Engineers , OK .
second , as it looks to me that you do not know about the rules , read them first before asking.
third , nobody learnt you that when you do not know something , the best way of acting was to shut-up instead of saying stupid things.
did you copy kid ?
poor France , thats the next generation ...
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spanners,
with the last generation , there is a problem of education...
they are at work and not working ...
when you ask them to do something , you can do it yourself , it will be quicker ...
when you explain them something , before you finish , they will tell you that they know already , but the next time the same happens , they don't know ...
sometimes , i get the feeling that i am losing my time with them ...
with the last generation , there is a problem of education...
they are at work and not working ...
when you ask them to do something , you can do it yourself , it will be quicker ...
when you explain them something , before you finish , they will tell you that they know already , but the next time the same happens , they don't know ...
sometimes , i get the feeling that i am losing my time with them ...
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MATMAX
I think you better choose your words carefully before posting in forums, an engineer is not just a machines fixer, there's much more to it than that, an engineer must be tolerant,understanding,respectful and helpfull, you might meet the technical criteria yet as per your above posts you have none of the attitude requirments of an engineer.
You like to flaunt about your skill's at wire locking or the type rates that you possess, But you also expose a huge deficiency in yourself when you speak with this attitude to people.
If you find any inadequacy in your apprentices why not advise them, Teach them and be tolerant with them, If you want to build a good reputation to french EASA license holder's first thing you should consider is training the apprentices the best way possible seeing as they will resemble your country one day when they work abroad.
I'll tell you what, I ran into many engineers with the same behaviour as yours as i'm an apprentice myself and I had to tolerate all sorts of aggravations coming off those engineer's that think they're the best and cannot withstand the sight of apprentices, And I must tell you its not just apprentices that cannot stand them, Even the managment and thier co-workers they're abominated everywhere, And many of them ultimately resigned because they wouldn't get by wherever they go due to this attitude, It's no good to be concieted and looking down at new people just because you think ''you made it in your career'' not just in aviation but in every other profession,Those people whom you're ''Wasting your time with'' are the outlook of your country, and like spanners said respect is earned not given, Always treat people the way you expect them to treat you.
No wonder everyone reprimands you here I think you better step back and think twice before you post your replies.
I think you better choose your words carefully before posting in forums, an engineer is not just a machines fixer, there's much more to it than that, an engineer must be tolerant,understanding,respectful and helpfull, you might meet the technical criteria yet as per your above posts you have none of the attitude requirments of an engineer.
You like to flaunt about your skill's at wire locking or the type rates that you possess, But you also expose a huge deficiency in yourself when you speak with this attitude to people.
If you find any inadequacy in your apprentices why not advise them, Teach them and be tolerant with them, If you want to build a good reputation to french EASA license holder's first thing you should consider is training the apprentices the best way possible seeing as they will resemble your country one day when they work abroad.
I'll tell you what, I ran into many engineers with the same behaviour as yours as i'm an apprentice myself and I had to tolerate all sorts of aggravations coming off those engineer's that think they're the best and cannot withstand the sight of apprentices, And I must tell you its not just apprentices that cannot stand them, Even the managment and thier co-workers they're abominated everywhere, And many of them ultimately resigned because they wouldn't get by wherever they go due to this attitude, It's no good to be concieted and looking down at new people just because you think ''you made it in your career'' not just in aviation but in every other profession,Those people whom you're ''Wasting your time with'' are the outlook of your country, and like spanners said respect is earned not given, Always treat people the way you expect them to treat you.
No wonder everyone reprimands you here I think you better step back and think twice before you post your replies.
Last edited by flame_bringer; 1st Aug 2010 at 01:13.