general Q's about life in the RAAF
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hey guys, me again (boy this thread is screaming along),
back to army/navy aviation, is it easier to get into than RAAF? (no offence to army/navy pilots out there) . .the reason i ask is that i've got corrected vision, i'm -2.5 w/o my contacts and i'm thinking that my make it tough for hornet or F-111 selectors but not so tough for maybe a blackhawk selector. i know it's not fastjet but i'd still jump at the opportunity to fly a blackhawk.. .any chopper pilots out there care to input?
back to army/navy aviation, is it easier to get into than RAAF? (no offence to army/navy pilots out there) . .the reason i ask is that i've got corrected vision, i'm -2.5 w/o my contacts and i'm thinking that my make it tough for hornet or F-111 selectors but not so tough for maybe a blackhawk selector. i know it's not fastjet but i'd still jump at the opportunity to fly a blackhawk.. .any chopper pilots out there care to input?
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Duck Muck
No problems with Carlo, just that the thread was heading in the wrong direction and it was suggested to me that some indiscretions were becoming more likely than not.. .The F111s' serviceability may now be a matter of public record, but whether this should be so is moot and there are other matters that are not.. .I'm sure you would agree our security is always a serious matter made even more serious, if that is possible, by recent events.. .It is all to easy for us in idle chat amongst fellow pros to forget that this is a publicly accessible forum and drop the odd one.
No problems with Carlo, just that the thread was heading in the wrong direction and it was suggested to me that some indiscretions were becoming more likely than not.. .The F111s' serviceability may now be a matter of public record, but whether this should be so is moot and there are other matters that are not.. .I'm sure you would agree our security is always a serious matter made even more serious, if that is possible, by recent events.. .It is all to easy for us in idle chat amongst fellow pros to forget that this is a publicly accessible forum and drop the odd one.
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Adelaide is a 'nice' place to live - if you go for quiet country towns with even more parochial attitudes to their AFL teams than Perth (a difficult achievment!). It's also got the worst case I've ever seen of 'it happened somewhere else, so it could/has happened here in Adelaide too...'
I don't ever say that I come from Adelaide - I just work here.
But to answer your question.... how often do we get away... a fair bit. Over an entire year, you might get away for 3 or 4 months of it. Not in big blocks all the time, it's mostly 1, 2 or 3 weeks at a time. I've never really added up how much time I spend away in total in a year....
We get to go all over Australia - but mostly to Perth, Sydney and Darwin. Traditionally, overseas trips are usually on offer 2 or 3 times a year - South Pacific, South-East Asia, US/Hawaii if you're lucky. If you're _very_ lucky, then there is the odd trip to Canada, UK and Japan. But no guarantee that every person will get one of those.
In terms of deciding which aircraft type you go to, I know that Nav course was 'streaming' their students fairly on - ie, deciding on their type based on ability/performance, and then tailoring their basic training as a result. I have had rumours that was/may be changing though. You always get asked where you'd like to go - it gives the instructors something to giggle about in their crewroom.... <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
I don't ever say that I come from Adelaide - I just work here.
But to answer your question.... how often do we get away... a fair bit. Over an entire year, you might get away for 3 or 4 months of it. Not in big blocks all the time, it's mostly 1, 2 or 3 weeks at a time. I've never really added up how much time I spend away in total in a year....
We get to go all over Australia - but mostly to Perth, Sydney and Darwin. Traditionally, overseas trips are usually on offer 2 or 3 times a year - South Pacific, South-East Asia, US/Hawaii if you're lucky. If you're _very_ lucky, then there is the odd trip to Canada, UK and Japan. But no guarantee that every person will get one of those.
In terms of deciding which aircraft type you go to, I know that Nav course was 'streaming' their students fairly on - ie, deciding on their type based on ability/performance, and then tailoring their basic training as a result. I have had rumours that was/may be changing though. You always get asked where you'd like to go - it gives the instructors something to giggle about in their crewroom.... <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
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Jetage. .I'm not sure how it is now, but wrt army and navy aviation:. .I believe that you sign up to join the army or navy, for x years, and it is then that they decide on where you will go, not before hand. With the RAAF, you know what you will be trained as before you sign the dotted line.
The eyesight limits published a few posts ago are for ALL ADF aircrew recruits, (to my knowledge anyway).
So iow, you may be led into thinking that you will be a chopper pilot, in order to get you to sign up, and then told that you'll be in logistics....
I was told this (not in so many words) by recruiting about 1.5 yrs ago, so it may have changed with this new flt screening system.
. .FishHead. .Thankyou very much for the info. You may have guessed where I was going with all that nav hrs as PIC talk, so I'll be straight; Do you know of any ex navs that have made it on the outside as professional pilots (flying intructors to airline pilots, doesn't matter what sort)?
Thanks again. .fnb
P.S. atleast you get out of good old Adelaide for a few months each yr!
The eyesight limits published a few posts ago are for ALL ADF aircrew recruits, (to my knowledge anyway).
So iow, you may be led into thinking that you will be a chopper pilot, in order to get you to sign up, and then told that you'll be in logistics....
I was told this (not in so many words) by recruiting about 1.5 yrs ago, so it may have changed with this new flt screening system.
. .FishHead. .Thankyou very much for the info. You may have guessed where I was going with all that nav hrs as PIC talk, so I'll be straight; Do you know of any ex navs that have made it on the outside as professional pilots (flying intructors to airline pilots, doesn't matter what sort)?
Thanks again. .fnb
P.S. atleast you get out of good old Adelaide for a few months each yr!
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fnb. .my thoughts on flying FJs:
5 hours flying a week can keep you pretty busy enough in the fast jet world depending on what you're doing when airborne.
I can't think of a better aviation job in the world than flying a FJ. No, not everyone makes it, but it's either you or the next bloke (no offence ladies, but give it your best shot). I've averaged at least one overseas deployment a year since my time in the FJ world, and many more dets around Oz in between. Going away with the boys to fly fighters is akin to an end of season footy trip, and yes, we still do fare very well against the western world's best. . .It's one of the few jobs you'll find in which everyone is there because they want to be - no one finds themselves "lumped with flying a fighter" and they've all worked hard with this job specifically in mind.
There are always things to whinge about, and I agree with Swingwing that the bull@#$% does flow to excess sometimes, but guess what - you leave the desk once a day to do something most guys would give 'their left one' to do.
If you decide to give it a go, my only advice is don't do it half heartedly - everyone else flying FJs in Oz thinks it is the best thing in the world, and have sacrificed a lot of time and energy for a lot of years to end up in the pointy end of a fast jet. Your instructors will want to know you are willing to do the same.. .Good Luck
5 hours flying a week can keep you pretty busy enough in the fast jet world depending on what you're doing when airborne.
I can't think of a better aviation job in the world than flying a FJ. No, not everyone makes it, but it's either you or the next bloke (no offence ladies, but give it your best shot). I've averaged at least one overseas deployment a year since my time in the FJ world, and many more dets around Oz in between. Going away with the boys to fly fighters is akin to an end of season footy trip, and yes, we still do fare very well against the western world's best. . .It's one of the few jobs you'll find in which everyone is there because they want to be - no one finds themselves "lumped with flying a fighter" and they've all worked hard with this job specifically in mind.
There are always things to whinge about, and I agree with Swingwing that the bull@#$% does flow to excess sometimes, but guess what - you leave the desk once a day to do something most guys would give 'their left one' to do.
If you decide to give it a go, my only advice is don't do it half heartedly - everyone else flying FJs in Oz thinks it is the best thing in the world, and have sacrificed a lot of time and energy for a lot of years to end up in the pointy end of a fast jet. Your instructors will want to know you are willing to do the same.. .Good Luck
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You can join the Army as a Specialist Service Officer (SSO) and do their pilot's course. It is very similar to joining Direct Entry with the RAAF. If you join as an SSO Officer Cadet in AAAvn Corps, you will do pilot's course.
[ 21 February 2002: Message edited by: RPPT ]</p>
[ 21 February 2002: Message edited by: RPPT ]</p>
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Frank, Life in the RAAF is different. Great mates but there is also the continual fog + uncertainty which is intrinsic to military life. Jet squadrons are the better places to go, and at the moment if you do top half of course you will probably get jets.expect to wait for a pig conversion(up to 2years after IFC) but 2ocu is quicker. If you don't make jets then expect a posting to an already crowded squadron.
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go_faster.. .thanks for that. I even heard of one guy who was 2 weeks away from grduating 2FTS, and failed because he couldn't join up in formation with another PC9 flying at 400 km/hr at 200ft AGL! The LIF course must be really hard, not to mention 2OCU! <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
I've no quarms about dedication and commitment for the kind of rewards that you guys all speak of.
As far as doing a job that most poeple can only dream about, I hear you. But where there is a will there is a way, and in 6 - 8 years down the track, maybe LASIK will be a bit less risky (and cheaper! ) and I will be accepted (assuming I pass the rest of the selection).
RPPT, I stand corrected.
Schlarp2, cheers for that. What do you do during that long wait for conversion though(2 years is a long time!)?
fnb
I've no quarms about dedication and commitment for the kind of rewards that you guys all speak of.
As far as doing a job that most poeple can only dream about, I hear you. But where there is a will there is a way, and in 6 - 8 years down the track, maybe LASIK will be a bit less risky (and cheaper!
) and I will be accepted (assuming I pass the rest of the selection).RPPT, I stand corrected.
Schlarp2, cheers for that. What do you do during that long wait for conversion though(2 years is a long time!)?
fnb
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What you do is hurry up and wait, OPSO work, go for jollies, golf that sort of thing. As for the fella that got scrubbed 2 weeks prior to grad,the writing would have been on the wall for a while, they won't scrub you for one sheit ride.
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Mate,. .Gofaster got it in one, flying Fighters is the worlds greatest job and all you have to do is want it. Close your ears to all the 'stories' you hear about why people failed trying to get there. Most of them are bulls&*t, most of them are people trying to make up excuses as to why they didn't want it enough. LIF, IFC and OCU is only hard if you don't want to do the job, if you want it, you will kick butt at it.
All the best, don't let the weak cloud your mind.
D
All the best, don't let the weak cloud your mind.
D
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RAAF....Best 20+ years of my life [all flying - I was lucky].
. .Remember most lawyers, accountants etc, will look up whan a Pig or Hornet flies over, but most Hornet or Pig Drivers will not bat an eye-lid when a lawyer, doctor or accountant walks past.
Put up with the Cra**p to enjoy Hawaii, Red Flag, . .et al
Go for it if you qualify.
Air to Air, Bombs, Sub Hunting and NVG Short field exfils are 'just part of the job'.
...have a plan for your future though.
. .Remember most lawyers, accountants etc, will look up whan a Pig or Hornet flies over, but most Hornet or Pig Drivers will not bat an eye-lid when a lawyer, doctor or accountant walks past.
Put up with the Cra**p to enjoy Hawaii, Red Flag, . .et al
Go for it if you qualify.
Air to Air, Bombs, Sub Hunting and NVG Short field exfils are 'just part of the job'.
...have a plan for your future though.
Just want to qualify something Dicey said:
Becoming a fighter pilot "..is only hard if you don't want to do the job".
WRONG.
Contrary to what the RAAF ads say, NOT anyone can be a fighter pilot. I'm sure most (if not all) fighter pilots would say that it was bloody hard work. Plenty of guys have failed the course simply because they couldn't make the grade, not because of lack of conviction or motivation. You can have the strongest desire in the world, but at the end of the day if you can't kill the bandit quickly as the free fighter in neutral 2v1 ACM you won't graduate... Let's face it, if it was easy it wouldn't be so sought after!
However, having said that, Dicey is right when he says don't worry about it being hard. You can't undertake such a lofty endeavour because of fear of failure. It can be a huge impediment to success & it will probably drive you mad worrying even if you have what it takes.
So pin your ears back, go hard & don't let anyone tell you "you're not good enough"!!
(unless of course it's your 2OCU instructor after your scrub ride... <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> )
Becoming a fighter pilot "..is only hard if you don't want to do the job".
WRONG.
Contrary to what the RAAF ads say, NOT anyone can be a fighter pilot. I'm sure most (if not all) fighter pilots would say that it was bloody hard work. Plenty of guys have failed the course simply because they couldn't make the grade, not because of lack of conviction or motivation. You can have the strongest desire in the world, but at the end of the day if you can't kill the bandit quickly as the free fighter in neutral 2v1 ACM you won't graduate... Let's face it, if it was easy it wouldn't be so sought after!
However, having said that, Dicey is right when he says don't worry about it being hard. You can't undertake such a lofty endeavour because of fear of failure. It can be a huge impediment to success & it will probably drive you mad worrying even if you have what it takes.
So pin your ears back, go hard & don't let anyone tell you "you're not good enough"!!
(unless of course it's your 2OCU instructor after your scrub ride... <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> )
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Booger,
Apologies mate, didn't mean it to come across as harsh as it reads. I know you can speak from personal experience and agree with everything you just wrote. My main point is for Fnb (or anyone else for that matter) to not get sidetracked in what they want to do because of some 'horror stories' they heard about from someone who didn't make it through. Hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.
Apologies mate, didn't mean it to come across as harsh as it reads. I know you can speak from personal experience and agree with everything you just wrote. My main point is for Fnb (or anyone else for that matter) to not get sidetracked in what they want to do because of some 'horror stories' they heard about from someone who didn't make it through. Hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.
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Dicey, Booger . .It just shows that the key to achieving your goals is tunnel vision, commitment and believing in yourself, no matter what happens, or what other people say. It is also good to see that all you guys appreciate how good your job is. Thankyou.
L J R. .Good pt about lawers, etc. I did a bit of that stuff last yr at uni, man it's BORING! What do you mean about plan for the future though?
Schlarp2. .I thought the way he failed did sound a bit harsh!
. .I just need something else cleared up though, I'm still a bit unsure on how the pilot training syllabus for fast jets goes (esp. LIF and IFC). Here is my current understanding (* means things that I'm unsure of):
LIF with 79 sqn at Pearce on the Hawk 127 (6-12 mths)*. .(IFC with 76 sqn at Williamtown on Hawk?)*
Then either:. .2OCU at Williamstown on F/A 18 A/B (6-12 mths). .'crew up'; with sqn (3 and 77 at Williamtown, 75 at Tindal; (77 also has PC 9 as FAC*)). .OR:. .6sqn at Amberley for F-111C conversion (6-12 mths)
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know how the Air Combat Group changes will affect the way things are done either. It would be great if somebody could clear these things up for me. . .Thanks in advance. .fnb
[ 25 February 2002: Message edited by: franksnbeans ]</p>
L J R. .Good pt about lawers, etc. I did a bit of that stuff last yr at uni, man it's BORING! What do you mean about plan for the future though?
Schlarp2. .I thought the way he failed did sound a bit harsh!
. .I just need something else cleared up though, I'm still a bit unsure on how the pilot training syllabus for fast jets goes (esp. LIF and IFC). Here is my current understanding (* means things that I'm unsure of):
LIF with 79 sqn at Pearce on the Hawk 127 (6-12 mths)*. .(IFC with 76 sqn at Williamtown on Hawk?)*
Then either:. .2OCU at Williamstown on F/A 18 A/B (6-12 mths). .'crew up'; with sqn (3 and 77 at Williamtown, 75 at Tindal; (77 also has PC 9 as FAC*)). .OR:. .6sqn at Amberley for F-111C conversion (6-12 mths)
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know how the Air Combat Group changes will affect the way things are done either. It would be great if somebody could clear these things up for me. . .Thanks in advance. .fnb
[ 25 February 2002: Message edited by: franksnbeans ]</p>
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Fnb,
79 Sqn for conversion onto Hawks (about 3 months + or - a bit), 76 Sqn for IFC (about 3 months). At either Sqn, usually 76, you'll do some 'operational' time. ie time to get comfortable flying a jet (anywhere between 2 weeks and 12 months). Then onto either 2OCU (6 months) or 6 Sqn (? months, Booger will know). Then onto a Squadron.
hope that helps
79 Sqn for conversion onto Hawks (about 3 months + or - a bit), 76 Sqn for IFC (about 3 months). At either Sqn, usually 76, you'll do some 'operational' time. ie time to get comfortable flying a jet (anywhere between 2 weeks and 12 months). Then onto either 2OCU (6 months) or 6 Sqn (? months, Booger will know). Then onto a Squadron.
hope that helps