general Q's about life in the RAAF
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Luca Brasi, eyesight min crit (for entry):. .1) MVR1 visual acuity no worse than 6/12 unaided each eye, and atleast 6/6 in each eye corrected.. .2) Hypermetropic Astigmatism no worse than +0.75 Dioptres each eye.. .3) Myopia -1.00 each eye. .4) Myopic Astigmatism no worse than -0.50 dioptres. .5) near vision N5 or better after correction
as stated above, I bummed out on stronger myopia (-2.75). LASIK is now permitted (along with another type of refractive surgery, but forgot which one!), but I don't know the conditions. Best bet to phone recruiting, they will put you through to the medical staff (who by now should be aware of the changes), and they will be able to answer your questions with better accuracy.
Good Luck,
fnb
PS: I'm quite sure that once you're in, there would be a new set of 'rules'. If you end up finding them out, please drop us a line.
as stated above, I bummed out on stronger myopia (-2.75). LASIK is now permitted (along with another type of refractive surgery, but forgot which one!), but I don't know the conditions. Best bet to phone recruiting, they will put you through to the medical staff (who by now should be aware of the changes), and they will be able to answer your questions with better accuracy.
Good Luck,
fnb
PS: I'm quite sure that once you're in, there would be a new set of 'rules'. If you end up finding them out, please drop us a line.
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Anyone got a link to the above Mirage pilot`s Vietnam service with USAF?Calls for Medal of Honour etc.
Then to dead stick a Mirage some years later-remarkable stories.
Makes TJs Guild of Fellowship or whatever,pale into insignificance.
Then to dead stick a Mirage some years later-remarkable stories.
Makes TJs Guild of Fellowship or whatever,pale into insignificance.
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Thanks franks, i still cant find my prescription but i do know i have some sort of astigmitism, cant remember what type. ill print out the list and show my optometrist and ask if i have better than what you listed. Mind you, that is not even half the problem, still plenty of other tests to go. but im sure its all worth it. Ill get onto it as soon as i can and let you all know.
Guys be very careful if considering laser eye surgery. ADF pilot applicants undergo corneal mapping scans during the opthalmology tests to see if any laser surgery has ocurred.In the past it was a big no-no, so beware.. .RM
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Roller Merlin. .Thanks for the explanation (credit card)
It was in the past, but now certain types of corrective surgery are allowed. I don't know the crit., but it may make it possible to achieve your dream, if eyesight was the only thing holding you back. If I got it done, according to the RAAF's conditions, it would only mean that I would pass the medical (as far as I know!!). I must then pass the Psych., Flt Screening, then OIB. But as I said, corrective surgery offers hope to those who otherwise wouldn't be able to live their dream (for something that doesn't really matter anymore). Only thing I don't understand is this: You are allowed to 'fry' your eyes to get in, you cannot wear glasses below a certain limit before you get in, but you can literally the day after you get in.
fnb
Please correct me if I'm a bit off with that last statement
It was in the past, but now certain types of corrective surgery are allowed. I don't know the crit., but it may make it possible to achieve your dream, if eyesight was the only thing holding you back. If I got it done, according to the RAAF's conditions, it would only mean that I would pass the medical (as far as I know!!). I must then pass the Psych., Flt Screening, then OIB. But as I said, corrective surgery offers hope to those who otherwise wouldn't be able to live their dream (for something that doesn't really matter anymore). Only thing I don't understand is this: You are allowed to 'fry' your eyes to get in, you cannot wear glasses below a certain limit before you get in, but you can literally the day after you get in.
fnb
Please correct me if I'm a bit off with that last statement
I don't want to justify the party line, but suggest the reasoning behind it.
I think with medical standards in things like eyesight, hearing etc. that tend to deteriorate over time, whoever makes these kinds of decisions draws an educated line in the sand as to where aircrew should be on entry, the reason being I would assume to ensure that a decent length of service could be expected from new recruits.
Once someone is in and trained, a good deal of money has been invested in him or her, so it changes the equation somewhat.. .This means that if people already working as RAAF aircrew have ears, eyes etc. that go below the limit, so to speak, their case will be reviewed on an individual basis and a decision made (not always favourable to the individual, either).
Makes sense, I guess.
I think with medical standards in things like eyesight, hearing etc. that tend to deteriorate over time, whoever makes these kinds of decisions draws an educated line in the sand as to where aircrew should be on entry, the reason being I would assume to ensure that a decent length of service could be expected from new recruits.
Once someone is in and trained, a good deal of money has been invested in him or her, so it changes the equation somewhat.. .This means that if people already working as RAAF aircrew have ears, eyes etc. that go below the limit, so to speak, their case will be reviewed on an individual basis and a decision made (not always favourable to the individual, either).
Makes sense, I guess.
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franksnbeans,. .Your sign off worries me.. .With such bad eyesight you might have trouble finding it.
BUt then again perhaps you could feel your way around.. . <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
BUt then again perhaps you could feel your way around.. . <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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Franks,
After you finish with the RAAF you have a definite position in the old boys club , sorry I mean CASA. There your are free to drive civilian aviation mad by uneducated decisions and keep the power trip going for a few more years.
( you know why they gave the RAAF afterburners?. .so they can taxi back to the hangar after the wheels up landing!)
Just a dig from the Navy dont get too upset boys!
After you finish with the RAAF you have a definite position in the old boys club , sorry I mean CASA. There your are free to drive civilian aviation mad by uneducated decisions and keep the power trip going for a few more years.
( you know why they gave the RAAF afterburners?. .so they can taxi back to the hangar after the wheels up landing!)
Just a dig from the Navy dont get too upset boys!
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Franks...,
Did my time in the outfit, including a tour on the long nose, high speed camera platform.
IMHO, the only reason you should join the military is because you want to join the military. Else could be a recipe for unhappiness.
Cheers
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Did my time in the outfit, including a tour on the long nose, high speed camera platform.
IMHO, the only reason you should join the military is because you want to join the military. Else could be a recipe for unhappiness.
Cheers
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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Arm out the Window. .I can understand where you are coming from. But like RPPT wrote a few posts ago.... we are not in AvMed, so can only speculate what the motivation behind such a decision is. Although your knowledge would be 'slightly' more accurate than mine. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> . .Nevertheless, a rule is a rule, and regardless as to whether it is right or not, it is there, and it may just be bad luck for me.
But it's still good to know that laser surgery (although very risky now) is allowed, so maybe in about 6 - 8 yrs I will look at it.
Flat Side Up... mate, as long as I get off, I don't care!. .
Sheep Dog, all I have to say is, never trust anything whose wing flys faster than it's fusalage. Although having said that, I have never been in a chopper before.....
Zone 5, I do want to be in the military, it would teach you a lot, and filter out all those unmotivated slackers which you find in so many other jobs. Promotion is based on performance, not who you know or how much you suck up/backstab. You would really develope as a person (teamwork, leadership, even learn how to iron your clothes properly!).
Of course, you'd probably have to do more exercise than the usual lifting food to your mouth infront of the TV.
. .rgds. .fnb
[ 17 February 2002: Message edited by: franksnbeans ]</p>
But it's still good to know that laser surgery (although very risky now) is allowed, so maybe in about 6 - 8 yrs I will look at it.
Flat Side Up... mate, as long as I get off, I don't care!. .
Sheep Dog, all I have to say is, never trust anything whose wing flys faster than it's fusalage. Although having said that, I have never been in a chopper before.....
Zone 5, I do want to be in the military, it would teach you a lot, and filter out all those unmotivated slackers which you find in so many other jobs. Promotion is based on performance, not who you know or how much you suck up/backstab. You would really develope as a person (teamwork, leadership, even learn how to iron your clothes properly!).
Of course, you'd probably have to do more exercise than the usual lifting food to your mouth infront of the TV.
. .rgds. .fnb
[ 17 February 2002: Message edited by: franksnbeans ]</p>
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Franks (and others),
An interesting thread, albeit with a huge amount of speculation and misinformation. I'll try and clear up a couple of those, and throw in my 20 cents worth about RAAF life in general.
First, the eyesight. In an attempt to confirm some of the rumour floating around on this thread, I went straight to the horse's mouth, and phoned the senior doctor at AVMED in Adelaide. Quite simply, Franks is exactly right in his last post, ie vision as bad as 6/12 is acceptable, provided it can be corrected to 6/6. Laser eye surgery is now acceptable, provided that it has been successful. However, the big caveat is that there is still significant latitude available to the examining ophthalmologist, ie the corneal scan must show that the surgery has produced the required correction without any excess damage. The AVMED doctor's opinion on how sensible it was to have laser surgery (a procedure still in it's relative infancy, and one that is certainly not without risk) was another matter entirely. The rest of the techo numbers were as FnB outlined above.. .AOTW is right when he says that recruiting is manned by all types of people. There are no longer pilots available to do that kind of job, so it has been partially outsourced. The uniformed people are largely NCO's from categories where there is a surplus of personnel (eg admin clerks). Through no fault of their own, they are not always fully informed about all the medical and related issues. In this case, anyone still having problems should quote ADFP 701 (Aust Defence Force Publication). This has been very recently updated to contain the latest medical requirements for both recruiting and serving personnel. Recruiting will be able to source this publication, and if not, should be able to get in touch with someone who can.
Luca - on your issue of rations / quarters etc, you are correct in saying that if you were to live in the mess, your cost of living would be lower than an equivalent member choosing to live in the city.. .However, you need to consider lifestyle. Once people have completed training courses etc, they move off base. No-one (and I mean NO-ONE) lives on base anymore, unless they are completely devoid of social skills! It is generally very isolated, and the camaraderie which used to exist in messes years ago is a thing of the past these days. Just like they say in the ads, in terms of lifestyle,it's a normal job (most of the time at least!)
As far as the job itself goes, I posted this a while ago to a thread on Military Pilots. Perhaps it's a bit whimsical, but for me at least, it sums up how I feel about my career so far...
As the old saying goes, "some days you're the hound, and some days you're the hydrant".. .We all have days when we look out the window, and can't imagine any other aviation job in the world. You know what I mean - you're tally 1 and flaring into the merge, upside down at 50000' and Mach 2, landing your Herc on NVG's (or in Hawaii!) , slamming on a 40 STOL approach in the New Guinea highlands or getting sonobuoy hits off that sub you've been chasing for hours. Where else on earth can you do stuff like that and then go and talk about it for hours over cheap beers with some of the best mates you'll ever make?. .Then there are other days when the bull@#%, the paperwork or the poodling just seems to go on forever. No one in the "support" elements seems to have the first clue about what we do, or why we're there, and if you want anything done properly, you have to do it yourself. On those days, you often ask yourself why you didn't leave years ago.. .Someone said to me many years back that when you first start out, all the crap just washes over you. When you start noticing it, and more to the point, getting worked up over it, it's time to leave.. .Me? Well, I'll never be the chief, but I reckon I've got a couple of years left in me yet. Like most of us, I've wanted to do this since I was a little kid, and I'd hate to look back in twenty years and realise that I left before I got it right out of my system. After all, you're a long time retired.. .So, I go to work, I go flying in one of the world's great aircraft, I get paid pretty well for the privilege ('cause that's what it is), I ignore the bull@#$% and if I'm not flying, I'm out the door at 4.30.. .Yeah......it's still the best flying job money can buy!
So anyway, I think that sums it up. No matter what type you fly, you'll have a fantastic time. I don't know anyone (and I mean that) who has ever regretted being a military pilot.. .Yes, there is a downside (but what job is there that doesn't have one?). .In the main, though, it's been everything I ever imagined it could be. . .So go on - pick up the phone and dial 13-whatever it is and give it a go!
Cheers,
SW
An interesting thread, albeit with a huge amount of speculation and misinformation. I'll try and clear up a couple of those, and throw in my 20 cents worth about RAAF life in general.
First, the eyesight. In an attempt to confirm some of the rumour floating around on this thread, I went straight to the horse's mouth, and phoned the senior doctor at AVMED in Adelaide. Quite simply, Franks is exactly right in his last post, ie vision as bad as 6/12 is acceptable, provided it can be corrected to 6/6. Laser eye surgery is now acceptable, provided that it has been successful. However, the big caveat is that there is still significant latitude available to the examining ophthalmologist, ie the corneal scan must show that the surgery has produced the required correction without any excess damage. The AVMED doctor's opinion on how sensible it was to have laser surgery (a procedure still in it's relative infancy, and one that is certainly not without risk) was another matter entirely. The rest of the techo numbers were as FnB outlined above.. .AOTW is right when he says that recruiting is manned by all types of people. There are no longer pilots available to do that kind of job, so it has been partially outsourced. The uniformed people are largely NCO's from categories where there is a surplus of personnel (eg admin clerks). Through no fault of their own, they are not always fully informed about all the medical and related issues. In this case, anyone still having problems should quote ADFP 701 (Aust Defence Force Publication). This has been very recently updated to contain the latest medical requirements for both recruiting and serving personnel. Recruiting will be able to source this publication, and if not, should be able to get in touch with someone who can.
Luca - on your issue of rations / quarters etc, you are correct in saying that if you were to live in the mess, your cost of living would be lower than an equivalent member choosing to live in the city.. .However, you need to consider lifestyle. Once people have completed training courses etc, they move off base. No-one (and I mean NO-ONE) lives on base anymore, unless they are completely devoid of social skills! It is generally very isolated, and the camaraderie which used to exist in messes years ago is a thing of the past these days. Just like they say in the ads, in terms of lifestyle,it's a normal job (most of the time at least!)
As far as the job itself goes, I posted this a while ago to a thread on Military Pilots. Perhaps it's a bit whimsical, but for me at least, it sums up how I feel about my career so far...
As the old saying goes, "some days you're the hound, and some days you're the hydrant".. .We all have days when we look out the window, and can't imagine any other aviation job in the world. You know what I mean - you're tally 1 and flaring into the merge, upside down at 50000' and Mach 2, landing your Herc on NVG's (or in Hawaii!) , slamming on a 40 STOL approach in the New Guinea highlands or getting sonobuoy hits off that sub you've been chasing for hours. Where else on earth can you do stuff like that and then go and talk about it for hours over cheap beers with some of the best mates you'll ever make?. .Then there are other days when the bull@#%, the paperwork or the poodling just seems to go on forever. No one in the "support" elements seems to have the first clue about what we do, or why we're there, and if you want anything done properly, you have to do it yourself. On those days, you often ask yourself why you didn't leave years ago.. .Someone said to me many years back that when you first start out, all the crap just washes over you. When you start noticing it, and more to the point, getting worked up over it, it's time to leave.. .Me? Well, I'll never be the chief, but I reckon I've got a couple of years left in me yet. Like most of us, I've wanted to do this since I was a little kid, and I'd hate to look back in twenty years and realise that I left before I got it right out of my system. After all, you're a long time retired.. .So, I go to work, I go flying in one of the world's great aircraft, I get paid pretty well for the privilege ('cause that's what it is), I ignore the bull@#$% and if I'm not flying, I'm out the door at 4.30.. .Yeah......it's still the best flying job money can buy!
So anyway, I think that sums it up. No matter what type you fly, you'll have a fantastic time. I don't know anyone (and I mean that) who has ever regretted being a military pilot.. .Yes, there is a downside (but what job is there that doesn't have one?). .In the main, though, it's been everything I ever imagined it could be. . .So go on - pick up the phone and dial 13-whatever it is and give it a go!
Cheers,
SW
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Swingwing. .thanks chief. I'm just interested, but do you let your nav have a fly? Only asking because I've been considering being a nav, if it is offered to me. I'd imagine that the navs would lead much the same lifestyle as a pilot and, if in the F-111, even have a play with the stick and rudder themselves.
Do the J model Hercs need as many navs, or are they being replaced with advanced systems?
Was reading the nav info off the web, and it says that you will pretty much be given a desk job after a few years, only limited number of flying post availiable after reach Sqn Ldr. How true is this?
What about job prospects outside the RAAF for navs?
would be interesting to know
Do the J model Hercs need as many navs, or are they being replaced with advanced systems?
Was reading the nav info off the web, and it says that you will pretty much be given a desk job after a few years, only limited number of flying post availiable after reach Sqn Ldr. How true is this?
What about job prospects outside the RAAF for navs?
would be interesting to know
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Swingwing.... After that motivational prose, sign me up!... oh, hang on, I'm already in <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Oh, and the phone number is 13 1901 (as in the year of federation, get it?)
Franks...... .Not being a Nav myself, but happy to speak for them, I believe that Navs on J-model Hercs are going to be a very rare species. The future for the Nav corps lies in bombers and maritime patrol. I'll leave comments on the bomber force to Swingwing, but on P-3s the Nav is one of the hardest working folks... (please don't tell any of them that I said that!) They tend to work longer hours (in preperation and debrief) than the rest of us, but they do get the fun bit of actually running the release of a weapon (so long as the pilot has authorised said release by switching on the Master Arm switch).
Job prospects above the rank of Flight Lieutenant are pretty much the same for both Pilots and Navs - and flying jobs get rarer and rarer as you go on. Having said that, it still looks like it'll be a cold day in a very warm place when a Nav gets to be Chief of Air Force.
Oh, and the phone number is 13 1901 (as in the year of federation, get it?)
Franks...... .Not being a Nav myself, but happy to speak for them, I believe that Navs on J-model Hercs are going to be a very rare species. The future for the Nav corps lies in bombers and maritime patrol. I'll leave comments on the bomber force to Swingwing, but on P-3s the Nav is one of the hardest working folks... (please don't tell any of them that I said that!) They tend to work longer hours (in preperation and debrief) than the rest of us, but they do get the fun bit of actually running the release of a weapon (so long as the pilot has authorised said release by switching on the Master Arm switch).
Job prospects above the rank of Flight Lieutenant are pretty much the same for both Pilots and Navs - and flying jobs get rarer and rarer as you go on. Having said that, it still looks like it'll be a cold day in a very warm place when a Nav gets to be Chief of Air Force.
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thanks for that FishHead. .Sorry, just another few, what will this upgrade programme for the P-3C improve?(hopefully not replaceing the NAVCOM/TACCO!)
What are ex RAAF navs doing now? I also read somewhere that you can count your nav hrs as PIC, if you divide by 2 or 3?
Swingwing, if you have a spare moment,what are the differences btwn the F-111C and G? Do they perform different roles?. .As for my current understanding, I know that some Cs are now RF-111Cs. Also that 6 sqn operates the G (along with some Cs for F-111 conversion training).
I take it that not too many navs have been offered the pilots course? If I joint as nav, I wouldn't be doing it in the hope of getting pilot training, but would be good to know what the chances are.
How much longer the H model planned to be around for?
Thanks guys, I know this topic is getting old....
What are ex RAAF navs doing now? I also read somewhere that you can count your nav hrs as PIC, if you divide by 2 or 3?
Swingwing, if you have a spare moment,what are the differences btwn the F-111C and G? Do they perform different roles?. .As for my current understanding, I know that some Cs are now RF-111Cs. Also that 6 sqn operates the G (along with some Cs for F-111 conversion training).
I take it that not too many navs have been offered the pilots course? If I joint as nav, I wouldn't be doing it in the hope of getting pilot training, but would be good to know what the chances are.
How much longer the H model planned to be around for?
Thanks guys, I know this topic is getting old....
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Franks,
The AP-3C upgrade (A = Australian) basically rips the guts out of frame, and puts all new whizz-bang stuff in. We get a glass(ish) cockpit, all new tactical computers, new acoustic gear, new radar and new cameras (eventually). The only crew station that is retained is the ESM kit, which itself was only updated about 4-5 years ago.
The Nav/Tacco is retained, however their role for is slightly redefined. Things are still being worked out in the detail, but basically the Nav is taken out of the 'navigation' loop a little, and put more into the tactical management role. He still gets the tactical radio comms (pilots weren't silly enough to take that on!), but the FMS system is run by the pilots rather than the Nav as it is now.
Re Nav hours counting as PIC. Excuse me for a moment whilst I step outside...... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.... .Sorry about that.... I'm back now..... .There's a couple of old sayings relevant to this - The four most useless things in aviation are: fuel in the tanker, airspace above you, runway behind you, and hours in a navigator's logbook.
Ex-navs do get employment outside - in fact for a while there, there was a few guys getting jobs with airlines in flight planning roles, ground management, that kind of thing. I know one or two got jobs in Air Services, but generally there are a lot of non-aviation related things they get into. Consultancy for arms-dealers is a popular option right now (arms-dealers = Raytheon, Lockheed, Boeing, Tenix etc etc)
Jumping onto Pilots course from the Nav category is certainly an option. The traditional route is that you do pre-Nav course (otherwise known as scrubbed off Pilots Course), then go off to Sale for Nav Course, then the Squadrons. Going the other way is non-comformist, but possible.
Re topic getting old - don't worry about it - we can talk about ourselves for ages...
The AP-3C upgrade (A = Australian) basically rips the guts out of frame, and puts all new whizz-bang stuff in. We get a glass(ish) cockpit, all new tactical computers, new acoustic gear, new radar and new cameras (eventually). The only crew station that is retained is the ESM kit, which itself was only updated about 4-5 years ago.
The Nav/Tacco is retained, however their role for is slightly redefined. Things are still being worked out in the detail, but basically the Nav is taken out of the 'navigation' loop a little, and put more into the tactical management role. He still gets the tactical radio comms (pilots weren't silly enough to take that on!), but the FMS system is run by the pilots rather than the Nav as it is now.
Re Nav hours counting as PIC. Excuse me for a moment whilst I step outside...... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.... .Sorry about that.... I'm back now..... .There's a couple of old sayings relevant to this - The four most useless things in aviation are: fuel in the tanker, airspace above you, runway behind you, and hours in a navigator's logbook.
Ex-navs do get employment outside - in fact for a while there, there was a few guys getting jobs with airlines in flight planning roles, ground management, that kind of thing. I know one or two got jobs in Air Services, but generally there are a lot of non-aviation related things they get into. Consultancy for arms-dealers is a popular option right now (arms-dealers = Raytheon, Lockheed, Boeing, Tenix etc etc)
Jumping onto Pilots course from the Nav category is certainly an option. The traditional route is that you do pre-Nav course (otherwise known as scrubbed off Pilots Course), then go off to Sale for Nav Course, then the Squadrons. Going the other way is non-comformist, but possible.
Re topic getting old - don't worry about it - we can talk about ourselves for ages...
Dudes,. .keep your ear to the Cone of Silence over the next month or two. A replacement aircraft for navigator training may be announced. Everyone knows it is a playoff between Kingair 350 and Citation B. I know what I would rather travel in... <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
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Ahhh the Land of Navtopia!!! Where every line is a rhumb line, the frozos are always ready to go, and Nav hours count two for one as PIC..... excuse me while I join Fishhead outside...
BAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHAHAH
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!
Ahhh thats better.... <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
BAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHAHAH
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!
Ahhh thats better....
<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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Fishhead and Borg thanks very much for that. Good to see the healthy rivalry is just as strong as ever!
So nav hours count 2 for 1 as PIC. Mmmm.
How do they allocate which aircraft you fly on? Is it how quickly you pick things up? Is it easy to change aircraft type?
FishHead, how much time do you actually spend in that crappy excuse of a city (Adelaide!), and how often do you travel around?
rgds
fnb
P.S, Borg - sorry if I missed something, but what the hell are frozos?
So nav hours count 2 for 1 as PIC. Mmmm.
How do they allocate which aircraft you fly on? Is it how quickly you pick things up? Is it easy to change aircraft type?
FishHead, how much time do you actually spend in that crappy excuse of a city (Adelaide!), and how often do you travel around?
rgds
fnb
P.S, Borg - sorry if I missed something, but what the hell are frozos?