SAS storm refugee boat

[Blake]

Beasley on the news this morning said something along the lines :"if Howard had acted like a prime minister at the beginning and not a polititian we wouldn't be in this situation".
I have to wonder what a prime minister would have done.
What will our new coast guard be used for.
Coastwatch seems to find most if not all of these peolpe before they arrive on our soil, BUT surely that is useless unless we have a plan for them when they arrive.
Why not just let them arrive on the door step ring the bell, like they did at Nightcliff in Darwin around 9 years ago, (came on shore stopped a taxi and asked to be taken to the local police).
Save an awful lot of money spent on Dash 8's, 406's and islanders flying around.
What would the opposition do??

Also watched some pommy twit (government MP) on TV last night having a go at all the spare desert we have in this country and we should allow them to live there. Are these people for real??

[engage left autopilot]

Hey viking, just out of curiosity, you say that you are in the process of immigrating down under? What kind of formalities have you been through/how long have you been waiting?

typo!

[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: engage left autopilot ]

[Luca_brasi]

Just read in todays paper that the Indonesians are saying that they will use whatever force neccessary to prevent the Tampa from entering territorial waters. As well, Australia has sent the HMAS Arunta with a crew to sail the Tampa and if neccessary to tow it.

It seems that things are going to get quite ugly fairly quickly with an armed Australian warship escorting a Norwegeian flagged ship (with Australian troops on board) into Indonesian territorial waters. What if Indonesia responds the same way that we did?? A firefight between the Kopuss and the SAS on a container ship with refugges aboard??? It doesnt seem too appealing. Or what if a Indonesian surface vessel fires on the Tampa or the Arunta?? Then what?? Is that an act of war? And if so, who against?? Australia or Norway (Though im pretty sure it would be Australia)

It seems that this is going to flare up pretty quickly and can ruin relations between Indo and Australia very very quickly. Comments??

[no name]

In the end it's not our decision, but the governments, so I guess we will have to agree to disagree as everyone is going to have their own opinion.

Most of the 90% of people who say that Australia should turn them away are only thinking of Australia's best interests, so there's no need for some of you to go off half cocked calling people racist and bigots at the drop of a hat, when i'm sure thats not the case.

fair enough these people have had a tough life, I can think of one other race in Australia that have as well (as have many others), and shouldn't we attend to that first, not to mention the high unemployment rate Australia is stilled faced with today.

[chips_with_everything]

Letters in the paper...

-----------------------

As a Kiwi living in Norway I have read your letters with interest. What these refugees didn't realise when they set off was that both Australia and Norway have elections in the near future, Norway in two weeks' time.
Pauline Hanson's counterpart here is one Carl I. Hagen, and he is no more refugee-friendly than your Pauline and he is also about to split the vote here. Jens Stoltenberg, the Norwegian Prime Minister, is also choosing his words in these run-up days to an election in which the polls have him lagging behind the conservatives.
Michael Joyce, Drobak, Norway, August 29.

------------------

Let's hope the Tampa incident has sent a strong message to refugees from around the world. If you are going to leave your oppressive regime to seek solace in the West, don't do it in an election year.
Phil Dobbie, Paddington, August 29.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Yeah I've got a comment. Who gives a flying f**k about Indonesia's attitude. A country that's riddled with corruption(in Govt and military) that facilitates these people towards our shores,let them have both barrels(politically).

I have had an absolute GUTFULL of pissweak Australian Politicians pandering to the whims and racist rhetoric we get from the likes of Malaysian and Indonesian Politicians. And before you lot pidgeon hole me as a redneck I fly all around Malaysia/Indonesia every week and have a great deal of respect for the Malaysian/Indonesian people.

BUT

Australia does not have the wherewithal to support unlimited refugees, be they political or economic, and should not have to.

I call on the Australian Govt to cut off ALL foriegn aid to Indonesia until THEY take some responsibility for turning these people around and sending them home as well.

When Europe, or anywhere else, are taking numbers approaching what Australia has taken then they can have an opinion on what WE should do with OUR Country. Until then shut the F**K up.

To keep this with some aviation content,
1/. The guys and girls flying coastwatch could, if they were allowed, tell you how bad the problem is becoming. They hardly fly a mission out to the islands and reefs NW of Australia's mainland without spotting boatloads of refugees.
2/. When I flew Bae146s for NatJet in Darwin we were ALWAYS doing charters in the middle of the night taking the latest boatload of Pakistanis to Port Headland or Woomera, the guys and girls from Perth flew the riot cops out to control the rioters at Woomera, that I'd flown there the week before.
3/. WHO ARE THEY TO COMPLAIN OF CONDITIONS AT EITHER PLACE, THEY'RE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS FOR F**KS SAKE.

When you fly all around the regions where these people are coming from you realise how wonderful OZ is. How safe and peacefull,clean and beautiful, how organised and ordered. It is the ABSOLUTE RESPONSIBILITY of the Australian Govt to keep it that way for the benifit of those people who are either Australian by birth or who imigrate there legally, and for their children and childrens children.

I was a teenager when Australia was still mostly 'white' and applaud whole heartedly what Australia has become since the advent of a balanced immigration policy. A truly great multicultural society, but we have gone to far and now we are starting(in the last 10 or 15 years) to see the lawlessness associated with the countries that some of these people come from.

If Indonesia won't accept willingly this last boatload back to where they were a week ago and then send them home from whence they came then Australia should force the issue.

Either tow or sail the Norwegian ship back to Indonesia with a strong military escort who have orders to defend both themselves and the Norwegian vessel if the (totally economically screwed) Indonesian Govt/ Military are stupid enough to come out and threaten them.

RANT OVER

Chuck.

[ohboy]

Aus can only do so much. Well done Howard.........!!!!!!!!!!!

[Blue Sky Baron]

Well said Chuckles.

[Islander Jock]

At the risk of being inflamatory to our northern neighbours. I'll wager a bet that behind the scenes the administration up there is laughing it's collective tits off at us. What have they got to lose by letting a few boatloads live in conditions which would make Woomera and Port Hedland seem like a holiday resort, until they can wave them goodbye on their journey south.

[TheViking]

To lame:
Thanks for your welcome, looking forward to it, but this situation makes it a little bizzar :-)

To engage left autopilot:
We are moving in a mounth initaly to Brisbane area. I have been through a permanent residence application process. I took 9 months and was stright forward. Much easier than travling on an overloaded boat, and risking ending up in a war zone :-). All you need is: some paperwork, an english test, health check, and some sort of higer education or jobb training, and job expirience. In fact I applied as pilot, but also have several years as a computer progammer. Will be usefull to your country!

[gaunty]

Onya Chuckles.
The results of our recent census would be interesting if was even close to telling the truth.

[lame]

TheViking,

No worries, as I said before you are most welcome as you have done the right thing, so is anyone else, regardless of race, colour, creed, religion etc as long as they go through the correct channels.

However people in Australia are fed up with all these illegal immigrants that pay to bypass these channels.

You are very lucky, you are moving to the best part of Australia............ (This MAY be disputed by some on this Forum?, just ignore them, they are jealous).



Best regards,

"lame"

[Metro man]

Be realistic ,there's only 19 million of us and there's no way we can take all the people who want to come here ,we would be overwhelmed.If it doesn't stop here then when ?

At the end of the day it's our country and we decide who gets to live here ,not the UN or anyone else.

Do we want shanty towns around our cities and race riots in 20 years time? At present rates the government will struggle to pay pensions by the time most of us retire ,how will it do the same for all these extra people who will have contributed little if anything?

Already the lawyers are circling like vultures thinking only of their own pockets ,hoping to sue the government and get the illegals awarded hundreds of thousands of dollars of tax payers money ,of which they get a cut.

Stop this nonsense now ,don't back down Mr Howard you have the support of most Australians.

[TheViking]

Lame: Do you have any info about a good flying school in Brisbane/Gold Cost area?

Viking

"Escaping from another slushy winter"

[lame]

Viking,

Not personally, however sure that many other PPRuNers will be able to advise you?

Anyone help please..........

"lame"

[Northern Chique]

I have seen some of these so called refugees first hand lined up last christmas in Darwin. Some of them are "gold card carrying, armani suit wearing criminals" whose previous visas were refused on alledgedly criminal grounds or they are just plain queue jumping. Some have been known to have in their posession first class ticket stubbs to Indonesia from their country of origin. In many cases they have no respect for infidels. (yes thats us Aussies).

They have at hand when landing on Australian soil access to health, law, education and residential facilities when they land here. Beats the hell out of me what is wrong with the facilities they are in, if they came from worse. Youd reackon they would be happy with three square meals a day, and free accomodation.

The Tampa group are but a small percentage of the total number arriving in our waters. Just look out on Darwin habour before the boat burning is done on a regular basis, or the vessels are impounded pending agreements or sale. Some are fishing vessels but many carry illegals.

(ironically one Indoneasian woman alone owned twelve of these vessels and has been convicted numourous times in Darwin court for various offenses but she alledgedly still sends "fishing vessels" into our waters.)

Whilst involved in the transport of our guests at one point, the following exchange occured.

When I did a cabin brief, one "guard" laughed at me, "they dont understand english".

One of the happy travellers said as he disembarked, "thankyou for the nice flight mam." Many males just really scowl at me. A woman in a place of authority in their culture is unthinkable.

mmmm I say whole heartedly, thankyou Mr Howard, and send the "refugees" Mr Beasleys house to live! Im sure the facilites there would suit them just fine thankyou.

If it possible to imagine the captain of the Tampa had been threated by these people into "doing things" their way, its quite feasible to leave the SAS where they are, refuel the ship and send it to say..... Britain! Or would the afore mentioned British tabloid just have us put them out in our deserts to die. It shows a sad ignorance of our geographics.

Whilst my opinion is somewhat hot headed, it has also been noted from time to time that the so called sinking of the people trafficing vessels is also planned. The speculation in some cases is the Indonesian organisers know the shipping channels and have boats in place at the "right time" for a "rescue" to occur.
I am happy enough for my tax dollars to be spent on genuine cases, but Mr Beasley, my tax dollar at this point backs the Howard government.

[Flat Side Up]

Credit to Tony Jones on ABC Lateline last night. An English professor, supposedly an expert in refugee matters, was being interviewed.
He stated that the illegals (he referred to them as refugees) were starving and in need of urgent medical treatment.
Tony Jones, at that point interrupted with the observation that he did not know where the professor was getting his information but was he aware that in fact the refugees had received food supplies and had been assessed medically with no urgent needs and medical aid was at hand if needed.
The professor, who not once had looked directly at the camera was rendered without response. End of interview!
By the way I don't know where they dredged this joker out from but they either had to break the glass case of raid a mausoleum.
In the meantime the Captain and owners of the Tampa have been pressing hard on the line that it is unsafe to continue on their way because there are insufficient liferafts aboard. Didn't seem to matter about liferafts on the craft they set out on.
Take them at their word and rectify the deficiency. Supply the necessary liferafts! They can then proceed wherever. The usual bleeding hearts will again accuse all and sundry of being racists simply because they refuse to be treated as dills.
Meanwhile in the UK they have had a little contretemps of their own regarding illegal immigrants....not newsworthy though!


[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: Flat Side Up ]

[Pushback]

Lame made a good post on page 3 of this epi logue:

The people being discussed here are nothing like that, in fact the opposite is true. They are mostly all from Afghanistan and Pakistan, and certainly predominantly, if not all, Moslems. They would logically fit in better in Moslem Indonesia, but no they don't want to go there, they want to come to Christian Australia????

These people are also from the Country that is currently putting on trial 2 Australians, under "possible" death sentence, because they might have preached Christianity. I feel more sorry for those 2 Australians, who are in Afghanistan providing aid to that Country..........
logue:

It has to be stopped. Perhaps the "asylum seekers" should be dispatched straight back where they came from....Australia doesn't need extremist religious types. Let them wreak their havoc elsewhere.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

FSU, I saw the Prof on the telly last night, what a hoot! you could almost see the clockwork key sticking out of his back, and he was totally pi$$ed!!
He had no idea of the facts. Probably been reading the tabloids.
I hope Little Johnny will carry on doing what the taxpayers want, not to win an election but because the alternative is for this country to lose much of what it has become.
lame, I migrated here on the independant migrant or "points" scheme, it took seven years of application forms and appeals, because five years of tertiary quals weren't recognised, and I had to accumulate more that WERE recognised, which was the main reason I did the CPL. Then there was the equivalent of a Class One medical with chest x-rays and HIV testing, more paperwork and money; and probably would have taken even longer if my boss hadn't insisted they return my passport by return of post, as I flew into Europe most days and couldn't work without it.
So after seven years with life in limbo I get frustrated when illegal immigrants bypass the system.
If they think bribes etc are acceptable ways of doing business I shudder for the black markets they could create if they were let lose here.

[ilya975]

Christian Australia ???

Damnnn ! I thought there was only one Oztralia. So now please, take me in and cut my balls off.