SAS storm refugee boat
The Independent and the BBC are both lefty liberal organisations so judge their comments from that starting point.
No sovereign country should be blackmailed into accepting immigrants and I trust that Oz will not give in to external or internal pressure - goodonya!
You could, of course, send the ship to Dover where our bleeding hearts would welcome them with open arms and send them all up to Bradford to join their mates, drawing the dole whilst they await their nice furnished houses.
No sovereign country should be blackmailed into accepting immigrants and I trust that Oz will not give in to external or internal pressure - goodonya!
You could, of course, send the ship to Dover where our bleeding hearts would welcome them with open arms and send them all up to Bradford to join their mates, drawing the dole whilst they await their nice furnished houses.
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TheViking,
If you are legally migrating to Australia, I would like very much to welcome you........
The people under discussion here are not legal migrants like yourself, they pay these very ruthless boat owners to bring them here illegally, bypassing the system that you have obviously correctly gone through.
They would all be as welcome as you IF they went through the correct channels.
Again, WELCOME DUNNUNDA when you arrive...
Best regards,
"lame"
If you are legally migrating to Australia, I would like very much to welcome you........
The people under discussion here are not legal migrants like yourself, they pay these very ruthless boat owners to bring them here illegally, bypassing the system that you have obviously correctly gone through.
They would all be as welcome as you IF they went through the correct channels.
Again, WELCOME DUNNUNDA when you arrive...
Best regards,
"lame"
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The reason Oz still gives aid to Indonesia is to look good in the International arena.
All countries are concernced with how they are percieved internationally....well apart from the Middle Eastern slumbs.
If we were to try and seek refuge in Afghanistan, the "Tolerent Islamic Nation" we would either be shot or put in jail and made to eat cockroaches.
Just look what happens when you try and preach another religion in that tolerent country......death.
The Koran says that islam is a tolerent religion........well I have yet to see evidence as such. After all they have martars from Islamic Shiad, who walk into restaurants with a few kg's of TNT and take out a shop load of normal people......tolernce...hmm more like insanity and it's all for "the cause".
Not the sort of people you want in Oz really.
I am all for refugee status, but YOU CAN"T JUMP THE QUE. Go through the correct channels the UN and wait your turn...after all it's not Australia's fault Afgahnistan is so screwed up.
If I were the skipper of the Norwegian vessel who saw the boat sinking it would have been FULL STEAM AHEAD, Ey Capt.
These people need a deterent otherwise you'll find Australia under the rule of the Taliban.
CFI,
Couldn't agree more with you. All those people in favour of taking the BOAT PEOPLE(we'll use the correct terms) can each put them up in THEIR own homes, feed, cloth and keep them. Then we'll see who wants the sent back.
All countries are concernced with how they are percieved internationally....well apart from the Middle Eastern slumbs.
If we were to try and seek refuge in Afghanistan, the "Tolerent Islamic Nation" we would either be shot or put in jail and made to eat cockroaches.
Just look what happens when you try and preach another religion in that tolerent country......death.
The Koran says that islam is a tolerent religion........well I have yet to see evidence as such. After all they have martars from Islamic Shiad, who walk into restaurants with a few kg's of TNT and take out a shop load of normal people......tolernce...hmm more like insanity and it's all for "the cause".
Not the sort of people you want in Oz really.
I am all for refugee status, but YOU CAN"T JUMP THE QUE. Go through the correct channels the UN and wait your turn...after all it's not Australia's fault Afgahnistan is so screwed up.
If I were the skipper of the Norwegian vessel who saw the boat sinking it would have been FULL STEAM AHEAD, Ey Capt.
These people need a deterent otherwise you'll find Australia under the rule of the Taliban.
CFI,
Couldn't agree more with you. All those people in favour of taking the BOAT PEOPLE(we'll use the correct terms) can each put them up in THEIR own homes, feed, cloth and keep them. Then we'll see who wants the sent back.
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LAME: I'm with you, sunshine, good to "see" a level head amongst all the crud.
BSB:- I heard on the steam radio a couple of days ago that the Tampa was en-route Fremantle to Singapore when asked by the Oz authorities to alter course to help, but can't confirm.
Woomera: When is enough "enough"?
Regards,
TheNightOwl.
BSB:- I heard on the steam radio a couple of days ago that the Tampa was en-route Fremantle to Singapore when asked by the Oz authorities to alter course to help, but can't confirm.
Woomera: When is enough "enough"?
Regards,
TheNightOwl.
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The media persist in referring to these "boat people" as refugees or asylum seekers. That is simply untrue; they are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS pure and simple. If they were attempting to cross the border from Mexico to the United States they would be repelled.
They have effectively hijacked the ship and by virtue of threats of violence and moral blackmail usurped the authority of the Captain.
Seems to me that the SAS has secured the vessel and guaranteed the safety of the crew from the threats of the hijackers.
No doubt the owners would be directing the Captain as to how he should proceed now. If they can expedite the landing of the ILLEGALS onto Christmas Island the sooner their ship can be back in business. Their stance is NOT a moral one.
Quite a few Christmas Islanders also are sympathetic to the ILLEGALS. Why would that be so? Pretty obvious really. It is commercially driven because it brings extra economic activity their way.
Typo again!!!
[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: pterodactyl ]
They have effectively hijacked the ship and by virtue of threats of violence and moral blackmail usurped the authority of the Captain.
Seems to me that the SAS has secured the vessel and guaranteed the safety of the crew from the threats of the hijackers.
No doubt the owners would be directing the Captain as to how he should proceed now. If they can expedite the landing of the ILLEGALS onto Christmas Island the sooner their ship can be back in business. Their stance is NOT a moral one.
Quite a few Christmas Islanders also are sympathetic to the ILLEGALS. Why would that be so? Pretty obvious really. It is commercially driven because it brings extra economic activity their way.
Typo again!!!
[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: pterodactyl ]
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Dear Fruit Bat and friends,
I am an illegal immagrant with 39 friends just spotted off Queensland. I have read your posts and appreciate your acceptance of us.
I am requesting you sponsor us for our visit to Australia and provide food accomodation. Additionally, we require you do not speak of christianity for the duration of our stay or we may have to hang you as is our custom.
thankyou in anticipation
Abdul
ps I have more friends on the may so I will require you to make them at home as well.
[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: airbrake42 ]
I am an illegal immagrant with 39 friends just spotted off Queensland. I have read your posts and appreciate your acceptance of us.
I am requesting you sponsor us for our visit to Australia and provide food accomodation. Additionally, we require you do not speak of christianity for the duration of our stay or we may have to hang you as is our custom.
thankyou in anticipation
Abdul
ps I have more friends on the may so I will require you to make them at home as well.
[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: airbrake42 ]
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This really p!sses me off.
What happens if an Aussie illegaly arrives or overstays in the US - or for that matter in any of the countries this poor refuse of society comes from??? Slapped in jail and summarily deported if lucky.
Our national anthem should be
Australians all let us rejoice
For we are young and free
We all come out in fishing boat
Across South China Sea
Government - He buy us clothes
And nice house for to live
And then we ruin land values
When we all move in to live.
They are bloody illegal and knew the job was dagerous when they took it. God knows our Collins class subs need some exercise. What a great opportunity.
It is NOT the refugees fault - but it is not our problem.
Just this little black ducks feelings.
Best to all.
EWL
What happens if an Aussie illegaly arrives or overstays in the US - or for that matter in any of the countries this poor refuse of society comes from??? Slapped in jail and summarily deported if lucky.
Our national anthem should be
Australians all let us rejoice
For we are young and free
We all come out in fishing boat
Across South China Sea
Government - He buy us clothes
And nice house for to live
And then we ruin land values
When we all move in to live.
They are bloody illegal and knew the job was dagerous when they took it. God knows our Collins class subs need some exercise. What a great opportunity.
It is NOT the refugees fault - but it is not our problem.
Just this little black ducks feelings.
Best to all.
EWL
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yeh ,couple of Norweigian luvies on newsnight last night howling about the inhumanity of Australia,I assume that that ship is Norweigian territory, if Norway is so concerned let Norway take them.
As someone has already stated, in future distressed ships will be avoided like the plague.
As someone has already stated, in future distressed ships will be avoided like the plague.
This bloke needs a good ppruneing
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Per head of population we ACCECPT more refuges than all but one country.
Per 1000 people we take 41
Norway per 1000 people take 5
Great brittin per 1000 people take 19
Indonesia per 1000 people 5
We must maintain a controled migrant intake or we will lose our country as we know it.
Per 1000 people we take 41
Norway per 1000 people take 5
Great brittin per 1000 people take 19
Indonesia per 1000 people 5
We must maintain a controled migrant intake or we will lose our country as we know it.
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Talk about reaction!!!
I hope none of you are (or descendants of) immigrants, hypocrisy is what you (we) make it.
[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: The Crimson Fruitbat ]
I hope none of you are (or descendants of) immigrants, hypocrisy is what you (we) make it.
[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: The Crimson Fruitbat ]
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Blake writes:
Yes we certainly have matured as a nation haven't we!??
One of you Captains will have a Hijack, "take me to Australia", one day. I hope (for the pax) you do just that (and let the SAS et al do it from there).
[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: The Crimson Fruitbat ]
Fruit bat
Jews of the 40's are now jews of the 2000's do we want that!!
Jews of the 40's are now jews of the 2000's do we want that!!
One of you Captains will have a Hijack, "take me to Australia", one day. I hope (for the pax) you do just that (and let the SAS et al do it from there).
[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: The Crimson Fruitbat ]
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Unfortunately the majority of posts to this thread do little to further any legitimate claim for Australia being in the right in this particular situation.
A few of you speak of the reception we would receive in the subject countries given the reverse circumstances, as well as the violence, religious fanatacism and despot governments etc etc ad nauseam. It's probably worth keeping in mind that this is what the majority of these people are trying to escape.
Others speak of "target practice" for the subs etc. Come on - Either these are wind ups or you are Dick_head/s.
This is exactly the sort of crud that makes any country (including Oz) look like small minded twits.
Although myself and 88% of Aussies (you twats being the other 2%)agree that a hard stand is necessary, you don't do Oz any favs by doing the "redneck rhumba".
Try some semi intelligent arguments and your message will be heard in a much more favourable manner.
For the record I believe we have to stand our ground on this issue before it gets seriously out of control. We will probably lose this move in the international game of UN chess, but we've also countered a few future gambits.
Live long and Prosper
A few of you speak of the reception we would receive in the subject countries given the reverse circumstances, as well as the violence, religious fanatacism and despot governments etc etc ad nauseam. It's probably worth keeping in mind that this is what the majority of these people are trying to escape.
Others speak of "target practice" for the subs etc. Come on - Either these are wind ups or you are Dick_head/s.
This is exactly the sort of crud that makes any country (including Oz) look like small minded twits.
Although myself and 88% of Aussies (you twats being the other 2%)agree that a hard stand is necessary, you don't do Oz any favs by doing the "redneck rhumba".
Try some semi intelligent arguments and your message will be heard in a much more favourable manner.
For the record I believe we have to stand our ground on this issue before it gets seriously out of control. We will probably lose this move in the international game of UN chess, but we've also countered a few future gambits.
Live long and Prosper
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Every night of the year multitudes of Mexicans jump the border to the US. Many are rounded up like cattle by good ol boys in 4wd's (like spot lighting rabbits) & sent packing straight back where they come from & no one seems to care.
So what does CNN do ? Take a cheap shot at us that's what! Good ol septics don't have a problem with hypocrisy at all. As for the Norwegians, never heard of them, don't they eat Whales or something ? The Poms ? well you can't take them seriously when they can't even play the game they invented.
[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: shocka ]
So what does CNN do ? Take a cheap shot at us that's what! Good ol septics don't have a problem with hypocrisy at all. As for the Norwegians, never heard of them, don't they eat Whales or something ? The Poms ? well you can't take them seriously when they can't even play the game they invented.
[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: shocka ]
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Fruitbat and Dundee have a point, we have to be strong but put the xenophobic and racist crap out of the way.
What are YOU going to do when someone wants to divert YOUR 747/767?
Go where they want I'd say and hope "the teams" at the destination are good.
Phil Ruddock seems like a fairly tough unit who doesn't seem to pander to the lobby groups.
[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: The Bishop ]
What are YOU going to do when someone wants to divert YOUR 747/767?
Go where they want I'd say and hope "the teams" at the destination are good.
Phil Ruddock seems like a fairly tough unit who doesn't seem to pander to the lobby groups.
[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: The Bishop ]
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Somebody stated;
"If I were the skipper of the Norwegian vessel who saw the boat sinking it would have been FULL STEAM AHEAD, Ey Capt."
Reckon you could sail past a three year old screaming as it is trying not to drown?
Idiot.
Yes they MUST be picked up, but no its not Australia's problem.
Since the ship has only enough liferafts to cater for 26 crew, when he picked up those illegos' he MUST head for the closest port, which was in Indo, therefore initially it was Indos problem.
Yet the captain turned and headed for Aus. supposedly under pressure from the illego's, and if he has broken the law by doing this (re the liferaft thing) then i believe the problem now lies with Norway because the captain has done the wrong thing and NOT headed for the closest port, whether under pressure by the illego's or not.
If Norway is so concerned for the refugees, then why dont they send a ship out that can cater liferaft wise and take them back to Norway?
Me thinks these countries moaning about Aus. not taking them have become use to the idea that Aus. is a dumping ground.
Its like a kid, let them get away with it just once, and the monkeys will have you by the balls for eternity.
"If I were the skipper of the Norwegian vessel who saw the boat sinking it would have been FULL STEAM AHEAD, Ey Capt."
Reckon you could sail past a three year old screaming as it is trying not to drown?
Idiot.
Yes they MUST be picked up, but no its not Australia's problem.
Since the ship has only enough liferafts to cater for 26 crew, when he picked up those illegos' he MUST head for the closest port, which was in Indo, therefore initially it was Indos problem.
Yet the captain turned and headed for Aus. supposedly under pressure from the illego's, and if he has broken the law by doing this (re the liferaft thing) then i believe the problem now lies with Norway because the captain has done the wrong thing and NOT headed for the closest port, whether under pressure by the illego's or not.
If Norway is so concerned for the refugees, then why dont they send a ship out that can cater liferaft wise and take them back to Norway?
Me thinks these countries moaning about Aus. not taking them have become use to the idea that Aus. is a dumping ground.
Its like a kid, let them get away with it just once, and the monkeys will have you by the balls for eternity.
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747400 asks what this has to do with a pilots' forum? It's only a matter of time before some group hell bent of getting to Australia tries a similar stunt to the one pulled by the Afghans who hijacked the aircraft to Stansted last year.
One question that hasn't been asked is how these long-suffering 'refugees' get to Indonesia? You don't hear of any grossly overloaded rust buckets floundering on the way to Indonesia, because there aren't any. The FACT is these 'refugees' fly into Indonesia as paying passengers in commercial airliners.
How do I know this? Because I fly them in myself, and on one occasion, have been forced to fly a group of them out again on the same flight because they wouldn't pay the first of many bribes all such people have to pay to Indonesian officials from the time they step off the aircraft at Jakarta airport to when they step aboard the boat bound for Australia. I'd hazard a guess and say each person parts with between $30,000 and $50,000 – (and that's US dollars, not Pacific Pesos) – by the time they get to Australia, most of it going to the gangs organising the illegal boats and to Indonesian officials in bribes. (The airlines flying them into Indonesia and the hotels in Indonesia and points further west along the 'underground railway' would see some of it.)
The unseaworthy ferry this particular group were rescued from quite obviously had departed from an Indonesian port. That makes Indonesia responsible for them in my book, but you can rest assured the Indonesians will play the 'not my problem' game to perfection until Howard is forced to eat crow and let them in.
We are told the next group is waiting in Indonesia to see how this one pans out. If that's true, there is no way in the world a large group of foreigners could be waiting in Indonesia without widespread collusion on the part of senior members of the Indonesian government, police or military.
My prediction? This mob, like all the earlier groups, will be allowed in. And so will the next boatload, and the next and the next…
And many people who once wouldn't have dreamed of voting for the likes of Pauline Hanson will register their protest in the only way politicians understand.
One question that hasn't been asked is how these long-suffering 'refugees' get to Indonesia? You don't hear of any grossly overloaded rust buckets floundering on the way to Indonesia, because there aren't any. The FACT is these 'refugees' fly into Indonesia as paying passengers in commercial airliners.
How do I know this? Because I fly them in myself, and on one occasion, have been forced to fly a group of them out again on the same flight because they wouldn't pay the first of many bribes all such people have to pay to Indonesian officials from the time they step off the aircraft at Jakarta airport to when they step aboard the boat bound for Australia. I'd hazard a guess and say each person parts with between $30,000 and $50,000 – (and that's US dollars, not Pacific Pesos) – by the time they get to Australia, most of it going to the gangs organising the illegal boats and to Indonesian officials in bribes. (The airlines flying them into Indonesia and the hotels in Indonesia and points further west along the 'underground railway' would see some of it.)
The unseaworthy ferry this particular group were rescued from quite obviously had departed from an Indonesian port. That makes Indonesia responsible for them in my book, but you can rest assured the Indonesians will play the 'not my problem' game to perfection until Howard is forced to eat crow and let them in.
We are told the next group is waiting in Indonesia to see how this one pans out. If that's true, there is no way in the world a large group of foreigners could be waiting in Indonesia without widespread collusion on the part of senior members of the Indonesian government, police or military.
My prediction? This mob, like all the earlier groups, will be allowed in. And so will the next boatload, and the next and the next…
And many people who once wouldn't have dreamed of voting for the likes of Pauline Hanson will register their protest in the only way politicians understand.
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I see Helen Clark is suggesting NZ might take a few to show NZ's committment to sharing the burden [radio news here in IE this evening].
I suppose refugees *are* easier to share than Air Force Squadrons
Oz made to look like pricks abroad gents I'm afraid - not for refusing refugees but for getting caught out in the legal niceties. These people's status as distressed mariners must override their status as refugees.
Hilarious to see our govt made a protest in Canberra - our govt would dump all ours on a leaking ferry too if it could swing it.
Still though - these people are coming from a country where people are being prosecuted for preaching christianity. There's only two ways to handle such countries - make them pariahs, or else give them WTO status and the Olympics. I wonder which will happen
I suppose refugees *are* easier to share than Air Force Squadrons
Oz made to look like pricks abroad gents I'm afraid - not for refusing refugees but for getting caught out in the legal niceties. These people's status as distressed mariners must override their status as refugees.
Hilarious to see our govt made a protest in Canberra - our govt would dump all ours on a leaking ferry too if it could swing it.
Still though - these people are coming from a country where people are being prosecuted for preaching christianity. There's only two ways to handle such countries - make them pariahs, or else give them WTO status and the Olympics. I wonder which will happen