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SAMRA/SARON/INRAT

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SAMRA/SARON/INRAT

Old 19th Oct 2023, 19:37
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They should be for subjects such as principles of flight, navigation, and meteorology. If you're set on taking a course though, I would strongly suggest you look at Aerocourse. Their books give you a very good feel for how the questions will be on the exams (in many cases, word for word), and I hear their seminars are top-notch. I'd suggest if you want to drop money on something. So that it is clear, I only ever bought their books, I have no affiliation other than seeing and hearing about their product, but I've never heard a bad thing. With that said, do not use their books to study the answers - as I said, that will eventually come back to bite you.

I would also suggest the following:

From the Ground Up - This is the GO-TO textbook in Canada. You can get through most of the subjects in Canada with just this book. It is about as thick as one of my NZ subject books, but within those pages is a gold mine of information.

Canadian Aviation Regulations Website - This will be your one-stop shop for all the air law. Although I also used a book called "
CARs in Plain English CARs in Plain English
," you avoid the potential for changing regulations by going straight to the source.

TC AIM - The Aeronautical Information Manual outlines all the rules and procedures for operating an aircraft in Canada. You can think of it as expanded guidance from the CARs. This is not so much I suggest you get it, as you will need to get it if you have any chance of passing your exams - that is how integral it is to aircraft operations.

Nav Canada AIP - The AIP is similar to, but quite different from the TC AIM. The only part of the AIP that you will likely find helpful is Part 1, often known as the CAP GEN. Parts 2 and 3 are used by international flight ops departments to figure out how to operate into and from Canada. When operating within Canada, it is the AIM that is the primary reference.

Air Command Weather Manual - An Air Force Weather Manual put out by the RCAF. It's good to grab as this seems to be what TC uses to develop their Met questions.

Mechanics of Flight - Not well known in Canada, but I think every pilot should own this. It's great for principles of flight, and the content for high-speed flight is a great starting point for pilots.

Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators
- Put out by the US Navy, this is a go-to book for principles of flight. There is a reason we used this during my university aerodynamics studies. Sure, it has its problems, but it is well worth the cost.

Human Factors in Aviation - Advanced Handbook Human Factors in Aviation - Advanced Handbook
- There are better books out there on the subject, but this is where TC seems to pull information for the questions. Be careful: there are two editions to this book: Basic and Advanced. Advanced is what you want for the ATPL. Basic is for the PPL and into the CPL.

Alright, as for other books that I won't hyperlink, but that I nevertheless found helpful (but in no particular order) during all my studies thus far (this includes a type rating and into my 23rd year as an airline pilot):
  • Dictionary of Aviation Terms
  • Handling the Big Jets
  • The Jet Engine (by Rolls-Royce)
  • Gas Turbine Engines (for Pilots and Mechanics)
  • The Turbine Pilots Flight Manual
  • Fly the Wing
  • Advanced Aircraft Systems
  • Flight Discipline (Kern)
  • Redefining Airmanship (Kern)
  • Airplane Flying Handbook (FAA, available as PDF. Just ignore the FAR stuff, unless you want to fly into the US, then it's handy!)
  • Instrument Flying Handbook (FAA, same as above)
  • Instrument Procedures Handbook (FAA, same as above, but there are a few differences between Canada and the US, so take this with the warning that is intended)
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Old 11th Nov 2023, 00:26
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Hello captains, any suggestions where to get the best source for SARON, SAMRA and INRAT study guide? Thank you for your comments!
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Old 11th Nov 2023, 02:12
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Hi, whats the meaning of CAP and CFS in the point number 5?
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Old 12th Nov 2023, 03:05
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where to get the best source for SARON, SAMRA and INRAT study guide?
Transport Canada Study and Reference Guides

​​​​​​​whats the meaning of CAP and CFS in the point number 5?
Both the CAP and the CFS are components of the Transport Canada Aeronautical Information Publication.

CAP - The Canada Air Pilot is a collection of manuals that describe the instrument procedures used at Canadian airports. There is a General Section (CAP GEN) that is a must, hence my specific inclusion in the list above. The other eight volumes contain the procedures for a particular part of Canada. For example, CAP 1 covers all the instrument procedures in the territories, whereas CAP 4 covers Ontario. There are two CAP versions for Quebec, one in English (CAP 5) and one in French (CAP 6). Although you will use the CAP during training, many commercial operators and almost all airlines use Jeppesen for this information.

CFS - In short, the Canada Flight Supplement is the official airport directory for all registered airports and aerodromes. It is reference material used primarily during flight planning to identify if the airport you are flying to has all the equipment, lighting, and fuel you need. Also included are communications procedures, some VFR transit information, and information regarding radio aids and emergency procedures. It is heavily used at flight schools and smaller operators, but at the airlines, we primarily reference company-produced documents or those published by Jeppesen.

You will need to become intimately familiar with how to quickly read and interpret both the CAP and the CFS for most Transport exams in Canada.
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Old 16th Nov 2023, 19:23
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Originally Posted by WWSG
I purchased it, and you're right. It will help me so much. I would appreciate it if one of those tests was exactly the same one I will do. The explanations in each test are more useful for understanding each point than reading 300 pages. I was an airline pilot in Brazil for many years, and I remember when I was applying for ANAC (It is like TC in Canada) exams, I used to do many practice tests like Nizuz and one of them was the same test with the same questions in the same order I had done it a few days before the test. What a dream. Thanks, man!
Hello everyone,
my profile is as follows.
TT - 1400Hrs.
BOEING 737 300/500 TIME: 1100Hrs
(ICAO) CPL
with multi engine IR .
Currently flying for the Boeing 737 300/500 in Africa

My wife is a Canadian Citizen in Toronto and after I leave my current job I intend to come up to Canada and convert my licence and find a job. I want to know if I am eligible to write the Saron, Samra and Iatra exams to Covert my ICAO CPL for a frozen Canadian ATPL as I have not gotten the Total time of 1500hrs yet. Or am I only eligible for Canadian CPL ? what is the best and most suitable licence can get at this time and the process to do So.
Also,what is the current job scenario for a pilot with my hours and type rating.
I already done my medical last month still waiting for the certificate

I plan to visit Canada next month to do the ground research but at the same time help here would be highly appreciated.
Thanks
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Old 17th Nov 2023, 09:37
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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It'll take you 4-6 months to convert anyway, starting with the medical and study for the exams. By the time you're ready to go to Canada and take the exams you'll have 1500 hours. Just be aware that Canada has an unusual requirement for 150 actual PIC hours rather than the usual 100.
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Old 17th Nov 2023, 21:08
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Hello everyone,
my profile is as follows.
TT - 1400Hrs.
BOEING 737 300/500 TIME: 1100Hrs
(ICAO) CPL
with multi engine IR .
Currently flying for the Boeing 737 300/500 in Africa
So first, at face value, you cannot do what you are suggesting. You cannot convert a foreign CPL to a Canadian ATPL. I'll be long dead from being blue in the face from saying it, but Canada does not have a frozen ATPL. You either have a CPL or an ATPL. You can have your ATPL exams written, but it doesn't mean anything here. What you have to do is convert your foreign CPL to a Canadian CPL and then sit the required exams. You can't skip a step (I know, I tried! haha)

Second, you've given far too little information to make an informed comment about your eligibility to hold an ATPL. You have to compare your logged hours against the CARs requirements. This includes items such as total time, total PIC, total cross-country, total cross-country at night, and total instrument. If you don't meet all the requirements, then you're not eligible for the license. So too if you don't have the experience then for a CPL. I've mentioned before how when I transferred a New Zealand CPL to my Canadian, I had some night hours to clean up because NZ required fewer hours than Canada. Thankfully, I already held a Canadian PPL, so I didn't have to jump through so many hoops, but be prepared to fall back down to a PPL if needed (although I doubt that with your experience). But, don't just compare your hours against the ATPL, compare them against the CPL to make sure you're good there. And, as rudestuff alludes to, we have a few weird rules here.

Speaking of weird, is PIC time. Canada requires 250 hours PIC time for the ATPL, of which 100 hours can come from a pilot-in-command under supervision program. The 150 hours rudestuff mentioned is a "soft" minimum for those at an air operator who have a PICUS program. Otherwise, its all the way up to 250 hours.

However, Canada does not recognize P1U/T (or P1U/S) or PICUS earned outside of Canada or at another operator for the purpose of licensing. This can be a stumbling block for guys and gals coming over who hope to use their previous "under supervision" time as PIC time. Canada is very straightforward in this regard: PIC time is logged by the Captain and only ever by the Captain. PICUS must be logged at the company, within 12 months of applying for the ATPL, and logged separately from PIC time. It cannot carry over from another company or another country. I raise this only because I've seen it twice where someone made the move over, thinking they had their PIC time all figured out, only to be told that nope, they only had 150 PIC, not the 250 that is required. Also, looking at the basic breakdown of your hours, you got onto a 737 with 300-ish hours, so you might be in that area where PIC time becomes problematic. So, either ask if the company has a PICUS program during your interview or go rent a plane. Better yet, if you have to rent, do a bunch of night-cross-country flights. Kill all the birds you can with a single stone.

As for job prospects, with your experience, you'd likely get a job with Air Canada or WestJet or their regional airlines, although don't expect to immediately get back onto a 737. Be ready to spend time on a Q400 or ATR. If at 1400 hours you hold out for a 737 or 320, you might be disappointed. Take what you can and run with it. Heck, you might even find something like a King Air or 1900D gets you away from autopilots and autothrottles and back into real flying again, if only for a bit!
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Old 24th Nov 2023, 05:55
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Hello fellas, I have a few questions.

Do I need to get my medical exam issued by CAME (Civil Aviation Medical Examiner) - Transport Canada before applying the written exams and IFR test, like SARON, SAMRA, INRAT? or can I do it without the medical certificate? and where should I schedule the exams?

Nowadays, how long is taking to receive the medical exam with an adress inside Canada, British Columbia?

Thank you for your responses in advance, I really appreciate it.

Best,
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Old 24th Nov 2023, 14:27
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Do I need to get my medical exam issued by CAME (Civil Aviation Medical Examiner) - Transport Canada before applying the written exams and IFR test, like SARON, SAMRA, INRAT?
Good question. CAR 401.13 - Examination Prerequisites is your answer. It states:

​​​​​​​
  • 401.13 (1) Prior to taking a written examination, an applicant for a flight crew permit, licence or rating shall meet the prerequisites for the examination set out in the personnel licensing standards with respect to
    • (a) medical fitness;
    • (b) identification;
    • (c) a recommendation from the flight instructor who is responsible for the training of the applicant; and
    • (d) experience.
  • (2) The applicant for a flight crew permit, licence or rating must be sufficiently competent in one of the official languages to be able to read the examination questions and to write the answers without assistance.
So yes, you would require your medical to meet the (1)(a) requirement.

​​​​​​​where should I schedule the exams?
The TC regional office for where you are located. You mention BC, and from memory that is in Surrey, but that is easily Googalable...

​​​​​​​how long is taking to receive the medical exam with an adress inside Canada, British Columbia?
The service standard for most things at TC for pilot licensing is 40 working days, however, they say actual processing times vary and it's not uncommon to wait up to 6 months for the medical.

Your best bet though is to talk directly to Transport. That is where your conversion process will begin and end, and they can give you an up-to-date account based on your circumstances.
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Old 25th Nov 2023, 08:11
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"...you would require your medical to meet the [401.13](1)(a) requirement"

Is that strictly how Transport interprets the standards at present? The prerequisites in 421 are more inclusive:

Standard 421: Division IIóTesting

421.13 Examination Prerequisites

(1) For admission to a written examination required for the issue of a permit, licence or rating an applicant shall have met the medical standards for the issue of the permit, licence or rating and shall produce proof of medical fitness in one of the following forms:

(a) a Medical Certificate in the appropriate medical category;
(b) a Medical Assessment Letter (Form 26-0417) in the appropriate medical category;
(c) in the case of a Student Pilot Permit - Aeroplane, Pilot Permit - Ultra-light Aeroplane or Pilot Licence - Glider, a Civil Aviation Medical Declaration (Form 26-0297);
(d) a temporary Medical Certificate in the appropriate medical category; or
(e) a Medical Examination Report assessed to the appropriate medical category by the Regional Aviation Medical Officer.
Until earlier this year, there were covid-related exemptions allowing candidates to write exams without holding an appropriate medical certificate. It doesn't look like these have been extended.

There is still an exemption (until 28 Feb 2025) allowing the holder of a category 4 medical certificate, and a category 1 medical certificate that has become valid only for private pilot privileges, to attempt a flight test for the PPL/CPL/ATPL and flight instructor rating. NCR-006-2023. If Capirover might also rely on an FLVC and a valid foreign medical certificate to attempt flight tests.

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Old 25th Nov 2023, 15:14
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Originally Posted by +TSRA
Good question. CAR 401.13 - Examination Prerequisites is your answer. It states:



So yes, you would require your medical to meet the (1)(a) requirement.



The TC regional office for where you are located. You mention BC, and from memory that is in Surrey, but that is easily Googalable...



The service standard for most things at TC for pilot licensing is 40 working days, however, they say actual processing times vary and it's not uncommon to wait up to 6 months for the medical.

Your best bet though is to talk directly to Transport. That is where your conversion process will begin and end, and they can give you an up-to-date account based on your circumstances.
Thank you for all the information given, I just made my medical exam 2 days ago, for type 1, hope donít take too much time to get it. Regards,
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Old 25th Nov 2023, 15:21
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Originally Posted by +TSRA
Good question. CAR 401.13 - Examination Prerequisites is your answer. It states:



So yes, you would require your medical to meet the (1)(a) requirement.



The TC regional office for where you are located. You mention BC, and from memory that is in Surrey, but that is easily Googalable...



The service standard for most things at TC for pilot licensing is 40 working days, however, they say actual processing times vary and it's not uncommon to wait up to 6 months for the medical.

Your best bet though is to talk directly to Transport. That is where your conversion process will begin and end, and they can give you an up-to-date account based on your circumstances.
Originally Posted by selfin
"...you would require your medical to meet the [401.13](1)(a) requirement"

Is that strictly how Transport interprets the standards at present? The prerequisites in 421 are more inclusive:



Until earlier this year, there were covid-related exemptions allowing candidates to write exams without holding an appropriate medical certificate. It doesn't look like these have been extended.

There is still an exemption (until 28 Feb 2025) allowing the holder of a category 4 medical certificate, and a category 1 medical certificate that has become valid only for private pilot privileges, to attempt a flight test for the PPL/CPL/ATPL and flight instructor rating. NCR-006-2023. If Capirover might also rely on an FLVC and a valid foreign medical certificate to attempt flight tests.

Hi, sounds good. Thank you.

So, as Iím understanding, Iím an ATPL ICAO, with medical type 1 issued by ICAO and also Iím a medical first class FAA issued. With any of this certificates I should apply for the written exams? (SAMRA,SARON, INRAT).
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Old 6th Dec 2023, 15:47
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So, as I’m understanding, I’m an ATPL ICAO, with medical type 1 issued by ICAO and also I’m a medical first class FAA issued. With any of this certificates I should apply for the written exams? (SAMRA,SARON, INRAT).
I suggest you contact Transport Canada. There are no credits listed for foreign applicants for the ATPL, unlike the PPL or CPL (421.34). As such, it does not read as though you can write the SAMRA, SARON, and INRAT based on a foreign ATPL (unlike the credits provided for a PPL or CPL). You can either convert ATPL to ATPL through the foreign license validation or FAA conversion exam, or you convert to a lower license to get the Canadian equivalent and then write the ATPL exams.

The issue here is not the medical or the license, it's both. You might meet the requirements for one (the medical) but you don't meet the requirements for the second (the license). This is why I've been saying call Transport Canada. They're the ones who can give you the definitive answer. Otherwise, and frankly, you're wasting time hoping something will work out.

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Old 6th Dec 2023, 15:58
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This is what they'll send you
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Old 6th Dec 2023, 21:35
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I wonder why they've not included that into the standard like they have with the other license types...but, that makes sense that you'd need a Canadian medical - to get the file number for TC to be able to write the exam in the first place.
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Old 16th Jan 2024, 21:05
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Hello, does anyone knows where do I have to make the appointment for the SARON, INRAT & SAMRA?

thank you!
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Old 18th Jan 2024, 15:02
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Check here. In short, you contact your regional TC centre
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Old 21st Jan 2024, 03:54
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Thank you 🙏
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Old 31st Jan 2024, 14:48
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Hello everyone.
I have an EASA ATPL TR 320/330/350 and about 9k hours. I'm thinking about going for the TC license.
Could you tell me if I also have to take the INRAT test, or just SARON+SAMRA? I read on nizus "A candidate for the ATPL who does not have their IFR will need to pass the INRAT"... not sure if I can skip this one

Thanks for your help
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Old 4th Mar 2024, 00:00
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Yes Phil. You'd need to pass INRAT too.
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