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Can an international student find an flight instructor job with PSGW visa ?

Canada The great white north. A BIG country with few people and LOTS of aviation.

Can an international student find an flight instructor job with PSGW visa ?

Old 20th Mar 2019, 14:27
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Can an international student find an flight instructor job with PSGW visa ?

Hi. I am from India and I would like to know of any good flying schools in Canada. Id like to know how well the weather compliment towards the flying and how many days in a year is a 'no go'. As an international student, will I be able to find a job after my training as a flight instructor or or some charter perhaps. Please share your experiences.

Last edited by Shyam Sunder; 20th Mar 2019 at 14:50.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 05:53
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Hi,

Are you the same Cdt Shyam Sunder from 4 Punjab Air Sqn, NCC, Ludhiana ..?
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 11:37
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One of every five people at most Canadian flight schools is from India. It has been like this since as far back as 2000. It should be very easy for you to find thousands of Indian people on Facebook who trained and then worked in Canada. They may be able to help you out with some information. Most flight schools are very experienced in processing students from India. A quick email to any major Canadian flight school should result in a detailed reply. As far as I know, your flight school can sponsor your student visa. You can then apply for a work visa after you finish your training if you wish to work as an instrutor. Contacting a flight school would be your first step.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 13:05
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Originally Posted by Takira101 View Post
One of every five people at most Canadian flight schools is from India. It has been like this since as far back as 2000. It should be very easy for you to find thousands of Indian people on Facebook who trained and then worked in Canada. They may be able to help you out with some information. Most flight schools are very experienced in processing students from India. A quick email to any major Canadian flight school should result in a detailed reply. As far as I know, your flight school can sponsor your student visa. You can then apply for a work visa after you finish your training if you wish to work as an instrutor. Contacting a flight school would be your first step.
You heard it from the best. The rest is your luck of course
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 13:21
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Originally Posted by Takira101 View Post
One of every five people at most Canadian flight schools is from India. It has been like this since as far back as 2000. It should be very easy for you to find thousands of Indian people on Facebook who trained and then worked in Canada. They may be able to help you out with some information. Most flight schools are very experienced in processing students from India. A quick email to any major Canadian flight school should result in a detailed reply. As far as I know, your flight school can sponsor your student visa. You can then apply for a work visa after you finish your training if you wish to work as an instrutor. Contacting a flight school would be your first step.
Takira101, thank you for your valuable suggestions.

Well here in India, aviation is one of the most lucrative and unpredictable industries. After the 2006, 2007 recession, many of our budding pilots were left stranded without a job for many years. Unlike Canada, US, pilots didn't have the scope to work anywhere as a pilot other than an airline, not even as an instructor as we don't have many flying schools here to begin with. I had so many friends who changed their professions due to unavailability of jobs due to thethe effe of recession for so many years. After about 8 years, we see some light at the end of the tunnel. I assume countries like US, Canada face such bad times as well with respect to aviation industry which in turn affects many aspiring pilots due to unemployment. Correct me if I'm wrong. I have few things I would like to get clarity in to understand the Canadian market better.

How's aviation in Canada doing at the moment ? Is Canada really facing a shortage of pilots right now ?

How sure can one get a job as an instructor after finishing his CPL especially being a foreigner ? I would like to get some deep insights on this as I'm almost 7000 miles away planning to start my life in a foreign land. I hope you get what I mean especially with a question been asked within myself a several times, 'Will I be able to land myself in some pilot job?'

Are there any other opportunities than becoming an instructor to build hours ?

How does an employer differentiate between a Canadian citizen & a foreign national both with CAA license when they want to hire you ?

Can a foreign national build his hours by being an instructor or any other way possible to enter an Canadian airline ? If so, how many hours does a regional & international airlines demand ?

Is it true that airlines demand a degree in aviation ?

Can you suggest me some good flying schools and also tell me how good is Harv's Air in Manitoba.
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 13:25
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Originally Posted by Ilyushin76 View Post
You heard it from the best. The rest is your luck of course
Yeah, that's true.
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Old 24th Mar 2019, 03:38
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How's aviation in Canada doing at the moment ? Is Canada really facing a shortage of pilots right now ?
The industry in Canada is doing quite well. It is as close to a "pilots market" as I have seen in twenty years. There is, and there is not a pilot shortage. By that I mean the classes at the airlines are still being filled and while the minimum required experience levels are dropping, neither WestJet nor Air Canada is looking to hire 250-hour pilots any time soon. Their regional subsidiaries are a different story, with almost all regional airlines now actively hiring pilots with less than 1000 hours. With that said, the shortage is with experienced pilots. Quite a few of the open jobs still require 3000 to 5000 hours to apply and those companies either will not or can not accept a lower level of experience.

This can all end tomorrow with a recession, terrorist attack, health scare - you name it. Aviation is fickle and a lot of our junior pilots are in for a very rude awakening during the next industry downturn. And we are overdue for a downturn.

Are there any other opportunities than becoming an instructor to build hours ?
Lots. You can do scenic flying, traffic patrol, go up to the northern parts of Canada and fly in the bush, or apply to a regional airline and see if they'll take you. In this regard, the sky is limit. Instructing should only be a route for those who actually enjoy teaching, not those who just want to hour build. So if you don't think you'd be a good instructor, or you think you'll only think of yourself and not your student, do something else.

How does an employer differentiate between a Canadian citizen & a foreign national both with CAA license when they want to hire you ?
They don't because it is illegal. If you have the right to work in Canada and are qualified, an employer cannot discriminate for anything, including nationality. End of story. With that said, an employer does not have to hire you either. There are a lot of variables that go into hiring decisions, but where you come from is not one of them...or at least, it's not supposed to be.

Can a foreign national build his hours by being an instructor or any other way possible to enter an Canadian airline ? If so, how many hours does a regional & international airlines demand ?
Airlines don't typically care how you build the hours. Every regional airline is different, but most are interviewing or hiring pilots with less than 1000 hours. Jazz is currently the best bet as they hire 250-hours pilots and have been very successful in their program. Porter interviews at 250 and hires at 1000 based on the last info I have, although that is almost a year old so they may have dropped the requirements. Encore will accept your resume at 250, but won't hire until 1000, for now. Be aware though that you might also be put into a pool - a group of qualified applicants who have been successful in the interview process, and may have received the word that they will be hired, but at a point in the future. Some people sit in a pool for a couple of days, others for months. WestJet and Air Canada have had pools lasting 2 years in the past.

Is it true that airlines demand a degree in aviation ?
No. Air Canada used to, but the latest info I have says it is now preferred and they will take a person with a degree over one who does not. WestJet does not care about a degree, but you better have good contacts. In any event, a degree is not a bad idea because you can always lose a medical and flying is not exactly a transferrable skill.

I'm not going to answer your last question because that requires a little more research on your part. There are hundreds of flight schools and programs in Canada. You need to do your research into what cities you are willing to move to, then research the schools in those areas, and then ask about experiences at those schools. Otherwise, you're going to get a lot of data with no good way to sort through it. For example, there is a school in Yellowknife. But I doubt you want to move there.
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Old 24th Mar 2019, 06:56
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Hi,

I was in the middle of writing an answer for you when +TSNA upstaged me with a fantastic detailed reply. I myself do not live in Canada and it seems he has more first hand knowledge than I do. I did however do all of my training in Canada and have done a lot of flying there over the years. I cannot hope to match +TSNA’s detailed knowledge of how things currently are in Canada, but I will give you whatever advice I can.

My best advice to you is not to worry about job markets and degrees, etc. Your main focus now should be your flight training. Don't worry about anything else. Human society has a natural ebb and flow which you cannot control. Don't worry about it and just focus on your training. There will of course be difficult periods, but over time, if you stay focused and do the best you can, you will have many opportunities to succeed in aviation.

Pilot shortage? Don't worry about that. Commercial aviation around the world is expanding and, though there will be downturns, air travel will continue to expand. The tide of the middle class is exploding all over the world and it is rising all boats. Capitalism is the greatest thing ever! Take it one step at a time, do your training, and there is a good chance you will be working as a pilot in the future.

Building hours without instructing? +TSNA gave a perfect reply so I can only expand on it slightly. Working as an instructor at the flight school you trained at will offer a sense of familiarity. You will be in a familiar environment. Likely living in the same place and surrounded by familiar people and a school that can help you with resident visa related issues. Getting a low time position somewhere in another part of the country may be short term requiring you to move around like a nomad. Some people prefer this lifestyle though. It is up to you. As mentioned by +TSNA, DO NOT get into instructing unless you want to be an instructor.

Applying for jobs as a foreign national? Canada is a country of immigrants. It just so happens that a huge percentage of those immigrants are, like you, from India. You will fit right in. I have met many Indians who did their training in Canada, instructed for a time, and then got in with a regional airline. As long as you are legally able to work in Canada, you will have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Regarding hour requirements, I can’t really add to the previous reply.

About degrees in aviation. A degree in political science, art history, or lesbian dance theory does not qualify you to fly planes. Many major airlines still prefer a degree, but other than applying to larger airlines, you don't need to worry about it.

About Harv’s Air in Manitoba. I DO NOT RECOMMEND HARV’S AIR. I spent two months there a few years ago. They are quite unprofessional. I watched them unfairly squeeze money out of the foreign students who didn’t know any better. Their online ground school is also very long and inefficient. I recommed hangaar.com if you are looking for an online grond school. Pacific Flying Club and Canadian Flight Center at Boundary Bay near Vancouver are good. On the other side of the country I would recommend Canadian Flyers in Toronto or St. Cathrines Flying Club. Keep in mind that most schools will give you a sales pitch about how great they are and what they can do for you. I have direct as well as indirect knowledge about various schools in Canada so let me know if you need more info regarding any school in particular. Try contacting the chief flight instructor of a school and see how helpful he or she is or isn’t. Usually a good indicator. Otherwise someone will send you the same copy and paste email telling you about how great their school is.

Last edited by Takira101; 24th Mar 2019 at 07:12.
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Old 24th Mar 2019, 08:19
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Takira101;


Hi
Thank you for your detailed response on this thread.
I am also an aspiring pilot from India and wish to start training this August /september. During my research , I found that many flight schools are offering integrated ATPL courses which are a little fast paced and more expensive.
Should i go for a modular course or iATPL ?
aslo,
How is OAS(ottawa Aviation services) for a flight school? They seem to have good tie-ups with regional airlines.
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Old 24th Mar 2019, 17:36
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+TSRA;

Wow, that was something I was hoping to know at the end of this thread and you have made it so much easier for me. Thanks

How is the weather in Canada ? How many months in a year can we fly and between when to when ?
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Old 24th Mar 2019, 23:56
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Originally Posted by Takira101 View Post
Hi,

I was in the middle of writing an answer for you when +TSNA upstaged me with a fantastic detailed reply. I myself do not live in Canada and it seems he has more first hand knowledge than I do. I did however do all of my training in Canada and have done a lot of flying there over the years. I cannot hope to match +TSNA’s detailed knowledge of how things currently are in Canada, but I will give you whatever advice I can.

My best advice to you is not to worry about job markets and degrees, etc. Your main focus now should be your flight training. Don't worry about anything else. Human society has a natural ebb and flow which you cannot control. Don't worry about it and just focus on your training. There will of course be difficult periods, but over time, if you stay focused and do the best you can, you will have many opportunities to succeed in aviation.

Pilot shortage? Don't worry about that. Commercial aviation around the world is expanding and, though there will be downturns, air travel will continue to expand. The tide of the middle class is exploding all over the world and it is rising all boats. Capitalism is the greatest thing ever! Take it one step at a time, do your training, and there is a good chance you will be working as a pilot in the future.

Building hours without instructing? +TSNA gave a perfect reply so I can only expand on it slightly. Working as an instructor at the flight school you trained at will offer a sense of familiarity. You will be in a familiar environment. Likely living in the same place and surrounded by familiar people and a school that can help you with resident visa related issues. Getting a low time position somewhere in another part of the country may be short term requiring you to move around like a nomad. Some people prefer this lifestyle though. It is up to you. As mentioned by +TSNA, DO NOT get into instructing unless you want to be an instructor.

Applying for jobs as a foreign national? Canada is a country of immigrants. It just so happens that a huge percentage of those immigrants are, like you, from India. You will fit right in. I have met many Indians who did their training in Canada, instructed for a time, and then got in with a regional airline. As long as you are legally able to work in Canada, you will have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Regarding hour requirements, I can’t really add to the previous reply.

About degrees in aviation. A degree in political science, art history, or lesbian dance theory does not qualify you to fly planes. Many major airlines still prefer a degree, but other than applying to larger airlines, you don't need to worry about it.

About Harv’s Air in Manitoba. I DO NOT RECOMMEND HARV’S AIR. I spent two months there a few years ago. They are quite unprofessional. I watched them unfairly squeeze money out of the foreign students who didn’t know any better. Their online ground school is also very long and inefficient. I recommed hangaar.com if you are looking for an online grond school. Pacific Flying Club and Canadian Flight Center at Boundary Bay near Vancouver are good. On the other side of the country I would recommend Canadian Flyers in Toronto or St. Cathrines Flying Club. Keep in mind that most schools will give you a sales pitch about how great they are and what they can do for you. I have direct as well as indirect knowledge about various schools in Canada so let me know if you need more info regarding any school in particular. Try contacting the chief flight instructor of a school and see how helpful he or she is or isn’t. Usually a good indicator. Otherwise someone will send you the same copy and paste email telling you about how great their school is.
Hey Takira. Thanks for taking time out of your day to write such informative tips here. I was hoping to go HARV'S AIR but now I'm completely puzzled.
They were very patient in replying to all my emails. In Canada, we can always change the flying school if we are unhappy and logically the number of hours already flown will be valid, yes ?
I need help with choosing the right school. If you can give me your email, I will write to you.
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 01:27
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How is the weather in Canada ? How many months in a year can we fly and between when to when ?
Well, Canada is a big country and is too large to answer your question in generalities without a sly suggestion that you pull out an Atlas and realize that Canada covers almost 40% of the North American continent. It features all the major weather systems and patterns on Earth and can have temperatures that range more than 60*C from its northern and southern points. Every location has its benefits and disadvantages when it comes to flight training.

I'm not trying to be obtuse with my answer here; it's just that your question is similar to my asking you how the weather in Asia is. Laos will have vastly different weather than Turkmenistan, so that's the scale you need to be thinking. Not Canada, but regional - BC, Ontario, Manitoba, Nova Scotia, etc. That is, our provinces are the size of countries and have varied weather to match.

For example, you may have more days lost to low clouds and rain in BC and Nova Scotia than you will Ontario, but you can equally have lost days due to thunderstorms in Ontario and Alberta. You can also have a bright, beautiful day in Saskatchewan, but be grounded because of gusty winds or temperatures below the operational limits for the aircraft.

With reference to my previous post, I would suggest you look up the major cities in Canada and decide on the ones you would be willing to move to and those you would not. Then ask your questions about a specific location you're prepared to move to (e.g., Vancouver, Fredericton, etc.) because the weather is too varied to give a response that would benefit you right now.
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 01:42
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About degrees in aviation. A degree in political science, art history, or lesbian dance theory does not qualify you to fly planes. Many major airlines still prefer a degree, but other than applying to larger airlines, you don't need to worry about it.
Neither does Geology, Nuclear Physics, Law, or Bio-engineering but I've flown with pilots with all those degrees. I would argue that a degree in Political Science would actually do a pilot in an airline quite well considering that most airlines are unionized, and that pilot could help their confrčre. Art History might help the person visualize a training program differently, enabling that person to make a better product for the pilot group. Lesbian dance theory - maybe the person is better able to think outside the box so makes a great sim instructor? I'm pulling at that last one, I admit.

An airlines desire for a degree is merely a rationing device. It permits that airline to limit the pool of applicants from thousands to hundreds. The airlines never really cared what degree an applicant had, just as long as they had one. That's why the posts always read "a three or four-year degree" vice "a degree in the sciences or mathematics."
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 13:35
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Originally Posted by +TSRA View Post
Neither does Geology, Nuclear Physics, Law, or Bio-engineering but I've flown with pilots with all those degrees. I would argue that a degree in Political Science would actually do a pilot in an airline quite well considering that most airlines are unionized, and that pilot could help their confrčre. Art History might help the person visualize a training program differently, enabling that person to make a better product for the pilot group. Lesbian dance theory - maybe the person is better able to think outside the box so makes a great sim instructor? I'm pulling at that last one, I admit.

airlines desire for a degree is merely a rationing device. It permits that airline to limit the pool of applicants from thousands to hundreds. The airlines never really cared what degree an applicant had, just as long as they had one. That's why the posts always read "a three or four-year degree" vice "a degree in the sciences or mathematics."

You make a good point which I do not disagree with. However, you may be misunderstanding the point I was trying to make. I never meant to imply that going to university is not beneficial.
I have no doubt that studying political science, art history, even lesbian dance theory (I made this one up) or any other subject can be of benefit toward anything you do. As you argue that these subjects can help a person visualize a training program, think outside the box, etc., I would counter by pointing out, and I am sure you agree, that such abilities can be learned anywhere in life, and are not limited to university education.
There are people who argue that universities today do not teach marketable skills, and are rather more for the credentials. A person who went to Harvard must be smarter than someone who went to community collage, right? In fact, I know a guy who dropped out of music school and is very successful. There are also Harvard graduates who are homeless or in jail. However, I don’t want to stray off of the original topic. This may a subject for a different forum.

My reason for writing what I did was to give encouragement to people who want to become a pilot but do not have a degree. I have flown with masters degree holders as well a high school diploma holders. Not having a degree will not prevent anyone from having a successfull career in aviation. However, in the interest of keeping it real, I also admit that having a few thousand hours total time together with a university degree is definately better than no degree, as there are airlines out there that, as you said, use credentials to narrow the field. However, I encourage anyone reading this to NOT let not having a degree discourage them from moving forward. Absolutely nothing to worry about.

Last edited by Takira101; 25th Mar 2019 at 13:55.
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 13:54
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You make complete sense. Let me do some digging.
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 13:56
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I suppose any degree is what the airline prefer not a particular degree of the sciences or in particular aviation, yeah ?
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 14:02
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Originally Posted by Shyam Sunder View Post
Hey Takira. Thanks for taking time out of your day to write such informative tips here. I was hoping to go HARV'S AIR but now I'm completely puzzled.
They were very patient in replying to all my emails. In Canada, we can always change the flying school if we are unhappy and logically the number of hours already flown will be valid, yes ?
I need help with choosing the right school. If you can give me your email, I will write to you.
Please keep in mind that I am speaking based on my own personal experience. There are probably people out there that had a good experience at Harv’s Air. After what I saw there I cannot personally recommend that school, however, everyone’s personal experience is different and you may end up having a completely different experience than I did. However I am happy to help you out with whatever info I can. [email protected]
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 14:13
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Originally Posted by Shyam Sunder View Post
+TSRA;

Wow, that was something I was hoping to know at the end of this thread and you have made it so much easier for me. Thanks

How is the weather in Canada ? How many months in a year can we fly and between when to when ?
Vancouver area is perfect flying weather from May to September. From September to May you will have very few VRF days. Lucky to get 2 to 3 flyable days a week, if that even. Manitoba area has much clearer weather. Lots of VFR days interrupted by the odd storm. Great flying weather if you can handle -20 degree weather. Unimaginable cold! Very difficult to live in such a climate but, if you can handle arctic weather, go for it. Ontario seems to be between the two. Much colder than Vancouver but less rain. More rain than Manitoba but less cold.
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 22:45
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Originally Posted by Shyam Sunder View Post
I suppose any degree is what the airline prefer not a particular degree of the sciences or in particular aviation, yeah ?
Exactly. It helps them narrow the field if nothing else.
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 14:12
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Hi,

A guy with Canadian PR here. I'm not sure how long you can live & work in Canada with PSGW visa, but I'd highly recommend getting a PR if you want to work here.

I guess at the end of the day it all depends on where you want to work after getting your ATPL but unless you're planning on going back to India, I cannot emphasize the importance of obtaining a PR.

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh, it's just that I've seen a lot of students who spent tons of money on training only to realize they cannot find a place to work because they do NOT have the legal means to (PR, Visa, etc).

Cheers.
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