Emirates vs. Air Canada
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How's that aggressive lobbying strategy working out for you so far Emirates and Etihad? 
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Canadian forces may pull forces out of base in UAE
An insider told CTV News that Canada was essentially being used as a pawn in heavy-handed blackmail. Transport Canada and Air Canada opposed the move. The Conservative government told UAE that it would rather give up the base than give in to unacceptable demands, senior officials told CTV's Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife.
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Canadian forces may pull forces out of base in UAE
An insider told CTV News that Canada was essentially being used as a pawn in heavy-handed blackmail. Transport Canada and Air Canada opposed the move. The Conservative government told UAE that it would rather give up the base than give in to unacceptable demands, senior officials told CTV's Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife.
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Dubai base
An interesting report Wxgeek, thanks. Probably doesn't make much difference though as Canada is (supposedly) poised to pull it's troops out of the region in approx 9 months. Time will tell eh?
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Originally Posted by theflyinggreek
Its just out.. we have 27 days to vacate the base in Dubai..
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DUBAI, Oct 10, 2010 (AFP) - Canada’s ties with the United Arab Emirates will be "affected" by the lack of an agreement to expand aviation links between the two countries, the UAE’s ambassador to Canada was quoted as saying Sunday.
"The UAE is disappointed that despite intensive negotiations over the last five years, the UAE and Canada have been unable to arrive at an agreement on expanding the number of flights between the two countries," Mohammed Abdullah al-Ghafli was quoted as saying by the official WAM news agency.
"The fact that this has not come about undoubtedly affects the bilateral relationship," the ambassador said.
The report said that the existing six commercial flights a week fell short of the economic needs and growth potential of both Canada and the Gulf state.
The Canadian embassy in Abu Dhabi could not be reached for comment on Sunday, while UAE foreign ministry officials were also not immediately available.
But according to Canadian media reports, the country may have to withdraw from a "secret" military base near the UAE transport hub of Dubai as a result of the disagreement.
"The Canadian government is now preparing to relocate forces from the United Arab Emirates to somewhere such as Cyprus rather than give in to what it considers unreasonable demands from the host country," The Globe and Mail reported on its website on Friday in reference to the commercial flights issue.
The Vancouver Sun said Saturday that "Canadian soldiers and aircrew have only 27 days to pack up and clear out of Camp Mirage, the not-so-secret airbase in the United Arab Emirates that Ottawa established seven years ago to support military operations in Afghanistan."
The daily’s website said the UAE suspended a memorandum of understanding on the base on Tuesday, after the Canadian government balked at a demand that "Dubai-based Emirates Airlines and Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways... each be granted daily flights between Toronto" and the UAE.
About 27,000 Canadians live in the United Arab Emirates, which is one of Canada’s biggest economic partners in the Middle East with bilateral trade valued at about 1.5 billion dollars per year, WAM cited Ghafli as saying.
© Copyright (c) AFP
Read more: UAE warns Canada ties may be hit by lack of air deal
"The UAE is disappointed that despite intensive negotiations over the last five years, the UAE and Canada have been unable to arrive at an agreement on expanding the number of flights between the two countries," Mohammed Abdullah al-Ghafli was quoted as saying by the official WAM news agency.
"The fact that this has not come about undoubtedly affects the bilateral relationship," the ambassador said.
The report said that the existing six commercial flights a week fell short of the economic needs and growth potential of both Canada and the Gulf state.
The Canadian embassy in Abu Dhabi could not be reached for comment on Sunday, while UAE foreign ministry officials were also not immediately available.
But according to Canadian media reports, the country may have to withdraw from a "secret" military base near the UAE transport hub of Dubai as a result of the disagreement.
"The Canadian government is now preparing to relocate forces from the United Arab Emirates to somewhere such as Cyprus rather than give in to what it considers unreasonable demands from the host country," The Globe and Mail reported on its website on Friday in reference to the commercial flights issue.
The Vancouver Sun said Saturday that "Canadian soldiers and aircrew have only 27 days to pack up and clear out of Camp Mirage, the not-so-secret airbase in the United Arab Emirates that Ottawa established seven years ago to support military operations in Afghanistan."
The daily’s website said the UAE suspended a memorandum of understanding on the base on Tuesday, after the Canadian government balked at a demand that "Dubai-based Emirates Airlines and Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways... each be granted daily flights between Toronto" and the UAE.
About 27,000 Canadians live in the United Arab Emirates, which is one of Canada’s biggest economic partners in the Middle East with bilateral trade valued at about 1.5 billion dollars per year, WAM cited Ghafli as saying.
© Copyright (c) AFP
Read more: UAE warns Canada ties may be hit by lack of air deal
Oh and wasn't he crowing about how "payback was a bitch" with regards to the Blackberry nonsense?
October 2010 Last updated at 15:12 Share this pageFacebookTwitterShareEmailPrint
United Arab Emirates will not ban Blackberries
Those who use the popular service in UAE will be pleased the ban is lifted
The United Arab Emirates has said it will not go ahead with plans to ban Blackberry services, following talks with maker Research in Motion.
It had threatened to suspend all services from 11 October.
The UAE Telecommunications Regulatory Authority confirmed that it is satisfied services on the devices are now compliant with its security needs.
It had said Blackberries posed a risk because the network was encrypted and data stored abroad.
Similar bans
Continue reading the main story
Related stories
UAE Blackberry update was spyware
Gulf states unveil Blackberry ban
The UAE Telecommunications Regulatory Authority (TRA) said in a statement: "All Blackberry services in the UAE will continue to operate as normal and no suspension of service will occur on October 11, 2010".
The TRA also acknowledged "the positive engagement and collaboration of Research In Motion (RIM) in reaching this regulatory compliant outcome".
Research in Motion (RIM) has found itself at the centre of a series of rows with countries unhappy with the way data is stored on the device.
India and Saudi Arabia have threatened similar bans.
RIM has always made it clear that it would not change the architecture of its service to placate countries wishing to extend their surveillance powers.
"It is unclear what will have changed in the nature of the RIM service," said Tony Cripps, principal analyst at Ovum.
"As such we can only hypothesise that some kind of workaround has been agreed in terms and conditions between the UAE regulator and local carriers ...to gain access to e-mails sent over the Blackberry service," he said.
RIM said in a statement that it would not discuss the details of the discusisions with the TRA. "RIM confirms that it continues to approach lawful access matters internationally within the framework of core principles that were publicly communicated in August," it said.
In August RIM sought to reassure customers that it would only allow governments to access services "in the strict context of lawful access and national security" and that no greater access than that given by rival firms would be granted.
It also stated that it would make no changes to the security architecture for Blackberry business customers.
At the time it said: "Contrary to any rumours, the security architecture is the same around the world and RIM truly has no ability to provide its customers' encryption keys."
United Arab Emirates will not ban Blackberries
Those who use the popular service in UAE will be pleased the ban is lifted
The United Arab Emirates has said it will not go ahead with plans to ban Blackberry services, following talks with maker Research in Motion.
It had threatened to suspend all services from 11 October.
The UAE Telecommunications Regulatory Authority confirmed that it is satisfied services on the devices are now compliant with its security needs.
It had said Blackberries posed a risk because the network was encrypted and data stored abroad.
Similar bans
Continue reading the main story
Related stories
UAE Blackberry update was spyware
Gulf states unveil Blackberry ban
The UAE Telecommunications Regulatory Authority (TRA) said in a statement: "All Blackberry services in the UAE will continue to operate as normal and no suspension of service will occur on October 11, 2010".
The TRA also acknowledged "the positive engagement and collaboration of Research In Motion (RIM) in reaching this regulatory compliant outcome".
Research in Motion (RIM) has found itself at the centre of a series of rows with countries unhappy with the way data is stored on the device.
India and Saudi Arabia have threatened similar bans.
RIM has always made it clear that it would not change the architecture of its service to placate countries wishing to extend their surveillance powers.
"It is unclear what will have changed in the nature of the RIM service," said Tony Cripps, principal analyst at Ovum.
"As such we can only hypothesise that some kind of workaround has been agreed in terms and conditions between the UAE regulator and local carriers ...to gain access to e-mails sent over the Blackberry service," he said.
RIM said in a statement that it would not discuss the details of the discusisions with the TRA. "RIM confirms that it continues to approach lawful access matters internationally within the framework of core principles that were publicly communicated in August," it said.
In August RIM sought to reassure customers that it would only allow governments to access services "in the strict context of lawful access and national security" and that no greater access than that given by rival firms would be granted.
It also stated that it would make no changes to the security architecture for Blackberry business customers.
At the time it said: "Contrary to any rumours, the security architecture is the same around the world and RIM truly has no ability to provide its customers' encryption keys."
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Nothin good to say, check the middle east forum, as for what I said, it's true, no one was expelled.
Of course you have proof Canada's negotiation team were being bullied or expelled, so please post? the lease was not renewed by the UAE, because the Harper government, again with it's head up its a@@ would not negotiate a reasonable bilateral commercial air agreement. 27000 Canadians in the UAE, yet to Transport (Air) Canada that's not enough to justify more than 1 daily flight for all UAE carriers into 1 Canadian city a day. The UAE had on the table unlimited rights for any number of Canadian airlines to fly any number of times to the UAE 2 major cities on a daily basis. But, alas the wise Harper trade team could not consolidate an agreement...Canada loses and you're happy?
Man you need to go home, to forget the hatred you have for the company you work for, ...that's a weird enough thing...
I guess you can't cause you see that the entry level positions at Air Canada and Transport pay less than 50,000 a year, but I guess you'll have made all your money at EK and won't care what your paid in Canada. Yet I'm sure you'll bitch about those jobs too.
RIM is not a uncompetitive monopoly like Air Canada, that's why Blackberry will keep growing...funny enough the it was RIM that got everything sorted not Canada's current inept government.
Of course you have proof Canada's negotiation team were being bullied or expelled, so please post? the lease was not renewed by the UAE, because the Harper government, again with it's head up its a@@ would not negotiate a reasonable bilateral commercial air agreement. 27000 Canadians in the UAE, yet to Transport (Air) Canada that's not enough to justify more than 1 daily flight for all UAE carriers into 1 Canadian city a day. The UAE had on the table unlimited rights for any number of Canadian airlines to fly any number of times to the UAE 2 major cities on a daily basis. But, alas the wise Harper trade team could not consolidate an agreement...Canada loses and you're happy?
Man you need to go home, to forget the hatred you have for the company you work for, ...that's a weird enough thing...
I guess you can't cause you see that the entry level positions at Air Canada and Transport pay less than 50,000 a year, but I guess you'll have made all your money at EK and won't care what your paid in Canada. Yet I'm sure you'll bitch about those jobs too.
RIM is not a uncompetitive monopoly like Air Canada, that's why Blackberry will keep growing...funny enough the it was RIM that got everything sorted not Canada's current inept government.
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I think it's weirder - and quite sad - that you have a hatred for your home country, it's elected government, and it's major airline to the point that you'd rather declare your loving support for a dictatorship and it's airline. Care about your own interests above all else, much? Bitter ex-AC pilot, much?
No one said the negots team was being bullied or expelled, but it seems to be just about a foregone conclusion that the military is being expelled. And if trying to leverage one unrelated favour against another isn't a definition of bullying I don't know what is. I guess when the Canadians are based elsewhere that will satisfy your need of proof of expulsion? Or will you just blame Harper? God how Canadian, to whine and blame the government.
You make it sound like increased rights for Canada to fly to the UAE in return for increased rights for the UAE to fly to Canada is an equitable agreement!! ROTFLMAO! WHERE are these Canadian carriers clamouring for such rights?! Oh yeah, there AREN'T any! When you're negotiating for something you want, shouldn't you offer something the other country wants?! But I guess if they actually did, they wouldn't have to resort to using a military base as a bargaining chip.
Read this slowly: there isn't a market in Dubai for Canadian carriers like there is in Canada for Emirates. Dubai is a hub, not a destination. The UAE is demanding feed for a hub and offering access to a spoke in return. That's the simplest I can put it.
Yes, I do concede that there could be room for a niche flight by AC or whomever for a YYZ-DXB flight to service the miniscule percentage of pax for whom the UAE is an end destination. In spite of 27,000 sounding like a large number, it is NEGLIGIBLE compared to the millions and millions of transit pax. And those 27,000 do have options, TODAY. Maybe you can't hop a standby flight as often as you'd like. But allowing Emirates to drop its capacity into Canada just because it had the hubris to order a zillion 380's isn't my idea of the solution.
It's clear that you define all issues by how much money you can make overseas versus in Canada. Like I said, bitter much?
No one said the negots team was being bullied or expelled, but it seems to be just about a foregone conclusion that the military is being expelled. And if trying to leverage one unrelated favour against another isn't a definition of bullying I don't know what is. I guess when the Canadians are based elsewhere that will satisfy your need of proof of expulsion? Or will you just blame Harper? God how Canadian, to whine and blame the government.
You make it sound like increased rights for Canada to fly to the UAE in return for increased rights for the UAE to fly to Canada is an equitable agreement!! ROTFLMAO! WHERE are these Canadian carriers clamouring for such rights?! Oh yeah, there AREN'T any! When you're negotiating for something you want, shouldn't you offer something the other country wants?! But I guess if they actually did, they wouldn't have to resort to using a military base as a bargaining chip.
Read this slowly: there isn't a market in Dubai for Canadian carriers like there is in Canada for Emirates. Dubai is a hub, not a destination. The UAE is demanding feed for a hub and offering access to a spoke in return. That's the simplest I can put it.
Yes, I do concede that there could be room for a niche flight by AC or whomever for a YYZ-DXB flight to service the miniscule percentage of pax for whom the UAE is an end destination. In spite of 27,000 sounding like a large number, it is NEGLIGIBLE compared to the millions and millions of transit pax. And those 27,000 do have options, TODAY. Maybe you can't hop a standby flight as often as you'd like. But allowing Emirates to drop its capacity into Canada just because it had the hubris to order a zillion 380's isn't my idea of the solution.
It's clear that you define all issues by how much money you can make overseas versus in Canada. Like I said, bitter much?
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wtf are you saying?? I read your post carefully and you still make as much sense as hockey played on grass, and stop going around on all the threads saying I hate Canada, that's just plain bullsh#T.
go back to your ek hate rants they're more sensible.
pretend it's the other finger I'm holding up
go back to your ek hate rants they're more sensible.
pretend it's the other finger I'm holding up
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Cheapest Fuel?
Bunkhog,
Sorry, not so. the fuel here has too much sulpher and cannot be refined to jet consumption quality. The fuel for EK aircraft in DXB comes from or through Singapore.
Sorry, not so. the fuel here has too much sulpher and cannot be refined to jet consumption quality. The fuel for EK aircraft in DXB comes from or through Singapore.
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Farewell to the UAE...
...fond, or otherwise. Just watching the story unfold on the CBC while waiting for the big bird to cook, I can only feel for the AF pers that are going to have to pull-pole and decamp to another location. Last time I was through, it seemed like a pretty good go...air conditioning in the quarters, excellent grub, bright lights and big city just a short drive away...nobody shooting at you...
On the other hand...Hot, humid...passive-aggressive behavior from the host nation...gate guards sniffing around for anyone over the two-per-day, per-man...
It's been a while, but I recall Cyprus was pretty sweet too, and a Canadian presence on the island is not unprecedented. I do know of a large, unused terminal near the capital...runways need some work though...
Pure speculation, but I wonder what the food is like at Akrotiri?
On the other hand...Hot, humid...passive-aggressive behavior from the host nation...gate guards sniffing around for anyone over the two-per-day, per-man...
It's been a while, but I recall Cyprus was pretty sweet too, and a Canadian presence on the island is not unprecedented. I do know of a large, unused terminal near the capital...runways need some work though...
Pure speculation, but I wonder what the food is like at Akrotiri?
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Happy Thanksgiving Canada
And what am I thankful for? This thread! It's a great read!
Oh well, at least the NHL has started, hockey is here (2 rinks!) and baseball playoffs are underway...the rest is pure political bunk and I could care less...nighty night Canada...all this turkey has made me sleepy!
Oh well, at least the NHL has started, hockey is here (2 rinks!) and baseball playoffs are underway...the rest is pure political bunk and I could care less...nighty night Canada...all this turkey has made me sleepy!
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hahahah six7driver, you're such a twit...if you think there's a difference between hating Emirates and hating the UAE you need to get out more....they're joined at the hip.
yeah, you're a regular patriot all right...
Sorry you struggled with my post, I'll use smaller words. You seem to think it's a good idea to give a competitor access to your major market, in return for gaining access to their pitifully small one. I say that's stupid, and explained why.
All of that is aside from the nonsense of using a military base for leverage. But I guess you'll just be a victim and blame that on Harper too lol.
Here's hoping Canada tells these fools to plan their LAX/SFO/IAH flights outside of Canadian airspace. What did diverting a Canforce Challenger around UAE cost, an extra 100 track miles?! LOL
yeah, you're a regular patriot all right...
Sorry you struggled with my post, I'll use smaller words. You seem to think it's a good idea to give a competitor access to your major market, in return for gaining access to their pitifully small one. I say that's stupid, and explained why.
All of that is aside from the nonsense of using a military base for leverage. But I guess you'll just be a victim and blame that on Harper too lol.
Here's hoping Canada tells these fools to plan their LAX/SFO/IAH flights outside of Canadian airspace. What did diverting a Canforce Challenger around UAE cost, an extra 100 track miles?! LOL
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I would not be surprised if Prime Minister Harper now revokes landing rights at YYZ...
Dispute escalates, UAE turns away plane with Canadian officials
By Lynn Curwin.
The United Arab Emirates closed its airspace to a plane carrying Canadian government and military officials on Monday, expressing their unhappiness with the country’s stand on commercial landing rights.
Defence Minister Peter MacKay, Veterans Affairs Minister Jean-Pierre Blackburn and Chief of the Defence Staff, Gen. Walt Natynczyk were on board the plane, which was heading from Afghanistan to Europe..
Earlier in the day, MacKay confirmed that Canada would therefore be vacating the Camp Mirage military base near Dubai.
"There have been discussions going on between the minister of foreign affairs and his counterpart. These discussions have been going on for some time," CTV News quoted MacKay as saying
"At this point we will abide by the wishes of the Emirates, and... we will be leaving the base."
The UAE wanted more landing rights in Canada for its national carriers, Emirates and Etihad, and threatened to force Canada to leave Camp Mirage if Ottawa did not approve an increase.
The airlines have six flights a week to Toronto, carrying passengers from Dubai and Abu Dhabi, but say that with 27,000 Canadians living in the UAE, there is a need for more service.
Read more: Dispute escalates, UAE turns away plane with Canadian officials
Dispute escalates, UAE turns away plane with Canadian officials
By Lynn Curwin.
The United Arab Emirates closed its airspace to a plane carrying Canadian government and military officials on Monday, expressing their unhappiness with the country’s stand on commercial landing rights.
Defence Minister Peter MacKay, Veterans Affairs Minister Jean-Pierre Blackburn and Chief of the Defence Staff, Gen. Walt Natynczyk were on board the plane, which was heading from Afghanistan to Europe..
Earlier in the day, MacKay confirmed that Canada would therefore be vacating the Camp Mirage military base near Dubai.
"There have been discussions going on between the minister of foreign affairs and his counterpart. These discussions have been going on for some time," CTV News quoted MacKay as saying
"At this point we will abide by the wishes of the Emirates, and... we will be leaving the base."
The UAE wanted more landing rights in Canada for its national carriers, Emirates and Etihad, and threatened to force Canada to leave Camp Mirage if Ottawa did not approve an increase.
The airlines have six flights a week to Toronto, carrying passengers from Dubai and Abu Dhabi, but say that with 27,000 Canadians living in the UAE, there is a need for more service.
Read more: Dispute escalates, UAE turns away plane with Canadian officials
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The best lesson you could teach the UAE, is to wait for Qatar to announce there purchase of 60-100 C series aircraft, Then revoke EK 4 slots and EY 3 slots, and award all 7 slots to Qatar.
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He's a British journalist living in Dubai. I find him to be pretty balanced and focuses on the facts. He's certainly not a gov't voice and has been in hot water with the locals on occasion.
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What does the UAE have over the world that makes them bold enough to turn an access issue into a major diplomatic disagreement? They are a small country with an excessively large, and growing much larger, airline that basically depends on poaching passengers away from the local carriers in the countries they fly to. Now for the relatively few slots in Canada they have brought worldwide attention to themselves and their sleazy tactics. They cut off support for Canadian troops fighting in Afghanistan for commercial considerations, and they don't think Canadians will be deeply offended and extremely pissed off at this?
I think they are stupid, and increasingly desperate given the huge numbers of airplanes they had the hubris to order.
I think they are stupid, and increasingly desperate given the huge numbers of airplanes they had the hubris to order.
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"At this point we will abide by the wishes of the Emirates, and... we will be leaving the base."
The UAE wanted more landing rights in Canada for its national carriers, Emirates and Etihad, and threatened to force Canada to leave Camp Mirage if Ottawa did not approve an increase.
The airlines have six flights a week to Toronto, carrying passengers from Dubai and Abu Dhabi, but say that with 27,000 Canadians living in the UAE, there is a need for more service.
The UAE wanted more landing rights in Canada for its national carriers, Emirates and Etihad, and threatened to force Canada to leave Camp Mirage if Ottawa did not approve an increase.
The airlines have six flights a week to Toronto, carrying passengers from Dubai and Abu Dhabi, but say that with 27,000 Canadians living in the UAE, there is a need for more service.
We don't do that in our aviation industry.... i would cut off all their slots...who needs them anyway? 26,000 Canadians in those countries should move their asses out. Bilaterals are just that, mostly equality.