BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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I do agree with you BG re labels. I dont use either Legacy or heritage. I am w/w but sadly terms come into everyday parlance and whilst we may not always want that to be the case there it is. I suppopse to be honest I would not use any of these words (as I say W/W).
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Simple solution to crew baggage labels boasting of belonging to a particular group - ban them. Give plenty of warnings that no tags are to used at all and then sack the bullies who use them.
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Give plenty of warnings that no tags are to used at all
Last edited by ottergirl; 11th Feb 2011 at 15:27.
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Ottergirl and A13
Genius 'From Tunbridge Wells' - then we can spend all our lives trying to find which are our bags and won't have time to care what we're called! Thats the kind of crazy idea that someone office based would implement without thinking through the consequences!
to clarify; no obviously inflammatory, bullying tags (like the yellow pens).
Dear Tunbridge Wells,
Would you include all groups in your total ban & sack pilots displaying a baggage tag?
Would you include all groups in your total ban & sack pilots displaying a baggage tag?
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Quite a bunch, the origional "First Fleeters"
First Fleet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
most of them were villains
First Fleet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
most of them were villains
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Or Cambridge dictionary
heritage - valued objects and qualities ............... that have been passed down from previous generations:
legacy - something that is a part of your history or which stays from an earlier time
No mention there of old or elderly! Value seems to be the common theme!
From Tunbridge Wells - I feel that the focus on baggage tags is something of a smoke screen. A baggage tag can not bully or intimidate, it is just a tag whatever colour it is, likewise a pen. The inference a person places on the tag is a different matter and that is personal choice. You can choose to be bothered by them, or not!
In some ways it is useful to be able to see a persons allegiances just by looking at their bags, rather like the Nazi's made people wear symbols on their clothes. If BA were to insist that the strikers wore something to identify them there would be a public outcry. For the life of me, I can't understand why someone would want to be identified in such a way.
heritage - valued objects and qualities ............... that have been passed down from previous generations:
legacy - something that is a part of your history or which stays from an earlier time
No mention there of old or elderly! Value seems to be the common theme!
From Tunbridge Wells - I feel that the focus on baggage tags is something of a smoke screen. A baggage tag can not bully or intimidate, it is just a tag whatever colour it is, likewise a pen. The inference a person places on the tag is a different matter and that is personal choice. You can choose to be bothered by them, or not!
In some ways it is useful to be able to see a persons allegiances just by looking at their bags, rather like the Nazi's made people wear symbols on their clothes. If BA were to insist that the strikers wore something to identify them there would be a public outcry. For the life of me, I can't understand why someone would want to be identified in such a way.
Last edited by ottergirl; 11th Feb 2011 at 21:29.
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Very good point Ottergirl.
I find that it no longer bothers me if I see yellow or red pens or XXXX tags.
It does however give me an instant indication to the persons views without even having to have a conversation with them about the BA/Bassa IA situation.
Quite handy really, now you mention it!!
I find that it no longer bothers me if I see yellow or red pens or XXXX tags.
It does however give me an instant indication to the persons views without even having to have a conversation with them about the BA/Bassa IA situation.
Quite handy really, now you mention it!!
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Betty Girl
My two closest friends that work with you as crew at BA, are none of the things that this thread portray, when you talk to them outside of work.
They both support the action, but are unconvinced of my argument that you should absolutely question BA, but the same should be true of Unite. In doubt if I would ever see either of them down a mine or at a dock; they just do not believe BA. I would love it if you and Otter could sit down and chat to them, because it is peers who will convince, not reps or managers.
They both support the action, but are unconvinced of my argument that you should absolutely question BA, but the same should be true of Unite. In doubt if I would ever see either of them down a mine or at a dock; they just do not believe BA. I would love it if you and Otter could sit down and chat to them, because it is peers who will convince, not reps or managers.
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I am afraid Litebulbs that some of them seem to have been somehow brainwashed by Bassa.
I have just done a three day trip with a yellow pen touting crew member who was absolutely lovely to talk to and was a superb crew member. He was brilliant with our passengers and went out of his way to make our passengers have a good flight.
I have flown with him before and he was aware that I worked during the strike and we chatted about the whole situation together throughout the trip in a totally adult manner, respecting each others views. He could see that Bassa had handled this badly and I agreed with him that BA had also handled it badly too, but he still was adamant that he would vote to strike again if balloted even though he agreed that the offer was ok and in fact good.
It all seems to boil down to trust and no matter how I explained that no previous agreement with Bassa had ever had cast iron guarantees more than this one does, it did not change his view. He was also upset about what he saw as unfair sackings and even though we both agreed that none of us new the details of the cases he believed that they must be unfair because Bassa said they were.
I truly hope there is no strike again because I would really hate for someone like him to lose his job because although we had different opinions, he was a really great crew member, totally customer focused and a hard worker.
So there lies the problem. Some people trust absolutely everything they are told by Bassa no matter how much you reason with them. DH truly has a lot of power over some of his members.
I have just done a three day trip with a yellow pen touting crew member who was absolutely lovely to talk to and was a superb crew member. He was brilliant with our passengers and went out of his way to make our passengers have a good flight.
I have flown with him before and he was aware that I worked during the strike and we chatted about the whole situation together throughout the trip in a totally adult manner, respecting each others views. He could see that Bassa had handled this badly and I agreed with him that BA had also handled it badly too, but he still was adamant that he would vote to strike again if balloted even though he agreed that the offer was ok and in fact good.
It all seems to boil down to trust and no matter how I explained that no previous agreement with Bassa had ever had cast iron guarantees more than this one does, it did not change his view. He was also upset about what he saw as unfair sackings and even though we both agreed that none of us new the details of the cases he believed that they must be unfair because Bassa said they were.
I truly hope there is no strike again because I would really hate for someone like him to lose his job because although we had different opinions, he was a really great crew member, totally customer focused and a hard worker.
So there lies the problem. Some people trust absolutely everything they are told by Bassa no matter how much you reason with them. DH truly has a lot of power over some of his members.
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Betty Girl
But you had a full engagement with an opposing view, without feeling bullied by a bag tag.
The crew member in question probably thought that you had taken BA's 13 pieces of silver. But the conversations you had and will have again, will be the cure. Much is said about the right to manage, but peer to peer engagement will move this on.
I think I will just say engagement again, just to engage those that are not engaged.
The crew member in question probably thought that you had taken BA's 13 pieces of silver. But the conversations you had and will have again, will be the cure. Much is said about the right to manage, but peer to peer engagement will move this on.
I think I will just say engagement again, just to engage those that are not engaged.
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fly12345
It is a simple trade dispute. If the rarefied atmosphere of flying makes union members more susceptible to top table comments, then I agree. But I doubt that is the case.
What it is, in my opinion, is some well paid employees looking at the prospect of not being so well paid in the future, with the survival of the business being pinned to the assumption that if the cost is not reduced, the business will disappear.
What it is, in my opinion, is some well paid employees looking at the prospect of not being so well paid in the future, with the survival of the business being pinned to the assumption that if the cost is not reduced, the business will disappear.
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litebulbs,
I think you are right that some of them genuinely fear being forced to work to Mixed Fleet agreements and no matter what we say, they will not see that BA cannot force crew onto a different agreement without negotiating it.
Bassa have been using scare tactics to such a degree in order to muster support that these crew just don't believe anything the company say even when they put it in black and white.
The most silly thing about this whole situation is that, the way Bassa have handled this whole affair has caused it's membership to drop and that in fact could cause BA to derecognised the union in the future and that in turn could lead to our agreements getting changed. So the very people claiming to be protecting our agreements are actually the ones putting them in jeopardy!!!
I will continue to chat to crew, when appropriate, and try and explain my reasons for accepting BA's offer but as others have said it is not that easy. Some people are just not receptive and it is my job to have a happy and coherent crew working as a team and so more often than not, these discussions have to be left OFF the aircraft.
Being in charge of the crew also makes it far more easy for me but for many of the main crew, they are having a dreadful time and are frightened to admit to being a non-striker. Some have actually altered the flights they bid for on Eurofleet because they were basically sent to 'Coventry' by strikers who also bid to do the same type of flights e.g. lates etc. It is very hard for them. Also strikers have lists on their I'phones of non-strikers (bizarrely mostly each others own friends, from prior to the strikes) which is called the Sausages Chips and Beans list and this is scary for some people as they worry that they are on it or are frightened they may be added. So it is not that easy to strike up these conversations Litebulbs.
That's probably why so many of us post on sites like this, just to get our feelings out!!!!
I think you are right that some of them genuinely fear being forced to work to Mixed Fleet agreements and no matter what we say, they will not see that BA cannot force crew onto a different agreement without negotiating it.
Bassa have been using scare tactics to such a degree in order to muster support that these crew just don't believe anything the company say even when they put it in black and white.
The most silly thing about this whole situation is that, the way Bassa have handled this whole affair has caused it's membership to drop and that in fact could cause BA to derecognised the union in the future and that in turn could lead to our agreements getting changed. So the very people claiming to be protecting our agreements are actually the ones putting them in jeopardy!!!
I will continue to chat to crew, when appropriate, and try and explain my reasons for accepting BA's offer but as others have said it is not that easy. Some people are just not receptive and it is my job to have a happy and coherent crew working as a team and so more often than not, these discussions have to be left OFF the aircraft.
Being in charge of the crew also makes it far more easy for me but for many of the main crew, they are having a dreadful time and are frightened to admit to being a non-striker. Some have actually altered the flights they bid for on Eurofleet because they were basically sent to 'Coventry' by strikers who also bid to do the same type of flights e.g. lates etc. It is very hard for them. Also strikers have lists on their I'phones of non-strikers (bizarrely mostly each others own friends, from prior to the strikes) which is called the Sausages Chips and Beans list and this is scary for some people as they worry that they are on it or are frightened they may be added. So it is not that easy to strike up these conversations Litebulbs.
That's probably why so many of us post on sites like this, just to get our feelings out!!!!
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What it is, in my opinion, is some well paid employees looking at the prospect of not being so well paid in the future,
Where the difference lies is in our approach/reaction to the problem and I accept that what stage you are at in your career will colour this. For me, I left Amicus because they couldn't see that it was BASSA's refusal to sit at the table that had hastened the birth of Mixed Fleet. I expected better of them and they let me down badly when they decided to throw in their lot with BASSA. Our only chance was to have negotiated an integrated approach to new crew and we blew it. The day BASSA made a proposal to BA that included Mixed Fleet I knew we were doomed!
This common ground is what could be the foundation of a recovery for crew relations because ultimately we will have to come up with a plan for the future. I want a union with intelligent reps who will negotiate the best deal. We will need to persuade BA that we are worth holding on to, worth the investment, etc and to do that, we need our customers (who pay our wages) to be telling BA that we are outstanding and they prefer flying with the legacy crew. Throwing a hissy fit and disrupting everyone's lives will persuade no-one!
If I only have a few more years of this wonderful life then I need to make sure that I enjoy every minute and I intend to.
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I agree with what you say Ottergirl.
I am confident that, with all our experience, current crew should be able to achieve far better customer satisfaction scores and I am really hoping that crew rise to this challenge and show BA that well rested and properly rewarded crew perform better.
We need to show them that they have made a mistake by going down this low cost route and we can only do that, as you say, by giving our customers the best experience possible and showing BA they have been misguided.
I left Amicus for very similar reasons.
I am confident that, with all our experience, current crew should be able to achieve far better customer satisfaction scores and I am really hoping that crew rise to this challenge and show BA that well rested and properly rewarded crew perform better.
We need to show them that they have made a mistake by going down this low cost route and we can only do that, as you say, by giving our customers the best experience possible and showing BA they have been misguided.
I left Amicus for very similar reasons.