BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Originally Posted by mohitomaster
The majority of crew have seen and witnessed their underhand tactics,
Originally Posted by mohitomaster
They are now steam rolling through our agreements on a daily basis
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There is no way legacy crew will end up on the new contract:
Watch this space. Redeployment clause springs to mind. Trust me BA have not spent all this money on busting BASSA for nothing.
Personally sitting at home with no work, and getting paid would be a pretty good outcome, but seriously that's not going to happen is it?
I think a lot more non contractual (or so they say) changes, are going to be imposed very soon. The job will become less palatable , new fleet will expand, old fleet will do only the non long range, MMP will stop. Eventually no more old fleet. Choice then leave or be redeployed on a new contract.
Watch this space. Redeployment clause springs to mind. Trust me BA have not spent all this money on busting BASSA for nothing.
Personally sitting at home with no work, and getting paid would be a pretty good outcome, but seriously that's not going to happen is it?
I think a lot more non contractual (or so they say) changes, are going to be imposed very soon. The job will become less palatable , new fleet will expand, old fleet will do only the non long range, MMP will stop. Eventually no more old fleet. Choice then leave or be redeployed on a new contract.
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old crew get a payrise and allowance protections.
But at the moment, BASSA is the same ole BASSA. Hence,near to zero support outside the CC fraternity for the continual calls for IA as they continue spitting out their dummies. The lack of negotiation and political left wing agenda within a branch that wont even allow YOU to vote on an offer, defies belief!
And, very scary, if there are many others like 'crewfriend'!
Many of us, as stated time and time again, have, over the past few years, adapted to change on a mammoth scale.
The world has changed, and, sadly, not for the good!
The sad reality is, that many will continue to lose jobs, and house repossesion in 2011 is expected to be a further 40,000 according to the CML.
And BASSA in its own little world continue with its own agenda. This despite retaining your job with written guarantees re T &C's!
This is certainly not about union busting. This is about a CEO finally saying to BASSA 'no more', fully supported by many staff, hence the VCC's.
A change of leadership within BASSA is the only solution to long term harmony, IMHO.
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Union busting examples:
Three years ago, the Company commissioned a report advising them on the best approach to "Union busting" within cabin crew, details were recently leaked to and published in the Guardian newspaper, who alone, amidst the tabloid hysteria, were able to see the true agenda.
It was entitled, "A review of where BA are in the relationship with BASSA": its main aims are reprinted below.
"Hitting BASSA where it hurts"
"Taking an 'anti-BASSA' approach"
"Seeking help from the parent union to 'divide and rule' "
"An anti-BASSA approach is required given that with its present structure and leadership there is no prospect of moving towards the end game let alone partnership"
When 100 academic experts later wrote to The Guardian to voice their concerns that blatant "union busting" by British Airways was the true agenda driving the industrial dispute, rather than any much vaunted cost cutting measures, Maria da Cunha, the Company's Director of Government Affairs, replied to The Guardian, stating, "Your leading industrial relations academics can rest easy. We have no intention of breaking Unite."
The Company further stated that the document was just one of many commissioned by the airline, even though in truth it was the only one (this admission is perhaps rather more disturbing than she intended). Despite BA's corporate protests that they were "far from trying to break the union" and their insistence their objectives were purely research and to find 'new, mutually beneficial ways of working together', BASSA has been briefed that Union busting firms such as the infamous US based Burke Group employ six main principles:
1: Decapitate the Union by taking out key officials undermining their organisational structure.
2: Employ threats, intimidation, and surveillance to create a climate of fear amongst workers to undermine their faith in the Union's ability to protect and to divide the workforce.
3: Use litigation to distract, drain the financial resources and break the power of the Union.
4: Use alternative sources of labour for product delivery to undermine the confidence of the workforce and any industrial action.
5: Establish rival organisations, staff associations or more compliant 'Unions'.
6: Employ external advisors.
Are BA following this blueprint to the ‘Union Busting’ letter.....
1) BASSA’s Branch Secretary has been sacked, the director of all BASSA communications has been sacked, the Treasurer is on a charge of gross misconduct, the rep in charge of all dispute related suspensions has been suspended and charged with gross misconduct, another key rep is facing a charge of gross misconduct and the Convener, the Deputy Convener and the Chairman all still face disciplinary charges.
2) There have been sixty crew suspensions and fifteen dismissals for dispute related 'offences' all run by a separate 'Backing BA' team and conducted in rooms specifically in use for 'Backing BA', Asset Protection have been photographed sitting outside crews houses and are actively monitoring all websites mentioning the dispute. Crew are afraid to speak to anyone for fear of being reported and other departments and all levels of management are being actively encouraged to report crew.
3) Various well known court cases and injunctions have been instigated against Unite.
4) Money was no object, even the incredibly expensive wet leasing of aircraft, dispersal of revenue to other carriers. The full weight of the corporate machine was behind the 'Backing BA' agenda, no matter what the cost, alternate staff were drafted in from around the globe (VCC’s), all to directly undermine lawful industrial action.
5) The PCCC was created & openly encouraged.
6) The commissioning of reports, employment of Union busters and the engagement of the American multi-national Baker McKenzie, the second largest law firm in the world as their legal advisors.
Three years ago, the Company commissioned a report advising them on the best approach to "Union busting" within cabin crew, details were recently leaked to and published in the Guardian newspaper, who alone, amidst the tabloid hysteria, were able to see the true agenda.
It was entitled, "A review of where BA are in the relationship with BASSA": its main aims are reprinted below.
"Hitting BASSA where it hurts"
"Taking an 'anti-BASSA' approach"
"Seeking help from the parent union to 'divide and rule' "
"An anti-BASSA approach is required given that with its present structure and leadership there is no prospect of moving towards the end game let alone partnership"
When 100 academic experts later wrote to The Guardian to voice their concerns that blatant "union busting" by British Airways was the true agenda driving the industrial dispute, rather than any much vaunted cost cutting measures, Maria da Cunha, the Company's Director of Government Affairs, replied to The Guardian, stating, "Your leading industrial relations academics can rest easy. We have no intention of breaking Unite."
The Company further stated that the document was just one of many commissioned by the airline, even though in truth it was the only one (this admission is perhaps rather more disturbing than she intended). Despite BA's corporate protests that they were "far from trying to break the union" and their insistence their objectives were purely research and to find 'new, mutually beneficial ways of working together', BASSA has been briefed that Union busting firms such as the infamous US based Burke Group employ six main principles:
1: Decapitate the Union by taking out key officials undermining their organisational structure.
2: Employ threats, intimidation, and surveillance to create a climate of fear amongst workers to undermine their faith in the Union's ability to protect and to divide the workforce.
3: Use litigation to distract, drain the financial resources and break the power of the Union.
4: Use alternative sources of labour for product delivery to undermine the confidence of the workforce and any industrial action.
5: Establish rival organisations, staff associations or more compliant 'Unions'.
6: Employ external advisors.
Are BA following this blueprint to the ‘Union Busting’ letter.....
1) BASSA’s Branch Secretary has been sacked, the director of all BASSA communications has been sacked, the Treasurer is on a charge of gross misconduct, the rep in charge of all dispute related suspensions has been suspended and charged with gross misconduct, another key rep is facing a charge of gross misconduct and the Convener, the Deputy Convener and the Chairman all still face disciplinary charges.
2) There have been sixty crew suspensions and fifteen dismissals for dispute related 'offences' all run by a separate 'Backing BA' team and conducted in rooms specifically in use for 'Backing BA', Asset Protection have been photographed sitting outside crews houses and are actively monitoring all websites mentioning the dispute. Crew are afraid to speak to anyone for fear of being reported and other departments and all levels of management are being actively encouraged to report crew.
3) Various well known court cases and injunctions have been instigated against Unite.
4) Money was no object, even the incredibly expensive wet leasing of aircraft, dispersal of revenue to other carriers. The full weight of the corporate machine was behind the 'Backing BA' agenda, no matter what the cost, alternate staff were drafted in from around the globe (VCC’s), all to directly undermine lawful industrial action.
5) The PCCC was created & openly encouraged.
6) The commissioning of reports, employment of Union busters and the engagement of the American multi-national Baker McKenzie, the second largest law firm in the world as their legal advisors.
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The first Guardian article you refer to was withdrawn by the newspaper:
Frank Burchill - Apology | From the Guardian | guardian.co.uk
Frank Burchill - Apology | From the Guardian | guardian.co.uk
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I switched off with the mention of 'The Guardian'.
A left of centre newspaper, no more no less. But this is what a lot of this is about isn't it, politics?
Crewfriend, where are you?
A left of centre newspaper, no more no less. But this is what a lot of this is about isn't it, politics?
Crewfriend, where are you?
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Examples of agreements being broken:
1.Disruption agreement implemented without union agreement
2. crew forced to take unpaid leave ( at their expense), if unable to get to work due to snow. Weather is no longer an acceptable excuse for a no show, despite the fact LHR was effectively shut.
3. Crew being told that days stuck downroute can now be considered MBT's.
1.Disruption agreement implemented without union agreement
2. crew forced to take unpaid leave ( at their expense), if unable to get to work due to snow. Weather is no longer an acceptable excuse for a no show, despite the fact LHR was effectively shut.
3. Crew being told that days stuck downroute can now be considered MBT's.
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MM, if I may?
1) It's hardly surprising that BA went ahead and implemented the DA given the historical reluctance of BASSA to allow its' implementation. I don't dispute, however, that it would have been the noble thing to at least try to contact Lizanne or her nominated deputy in advance of doing so.
2) This, I'm afraid, is a pretty standard thing throughout BA and other companies in the UK. I believe Tesco were doing the same in recent bad weather. It's not illegal. Again, we can discuss the morality/nobility of such but the law is what it is.
3) This has always but always been the case from a legal perspective. It is perfectly acceptable to satisfy the scheme rules for rest whilst one is downroute. Again, it's not pretty but it's legally pretty watertight.
Sorry, but in essence, the examples you've provided are more about how well you've managed to protect yourselves from the vicissitudes of the real corporate world for so long. For that, I tip my hat to you, but the undeniable truth is that the world just isn't like that anymore. It's vicious, it's nasty and, with my hand on my heart, I wish it were different but it's not.
MrB
1) It's hardly surprising that BA went ahead and implemented the DA given the historical reluctance of BASSA to allow its' implementation. I don't dispute, however, that it would have been the noble thing to at least try to contact Lizanne or her nominated deputy in advance of doing so.
2) This, I'm afraid, is a pretty standard thing throughout BA and other companies in the UK. I believe Tesco were doing the same in recent bad weather. It's not illegal. Again, we can discuss the morality/nobility of such but the law is what it is.
3) This has always but always been the case from a legal perspective. It is perfectly acceptable to satisfy the scheme rules for rest whilst one is downroute. Again, it's not pretty but it's legally pretty watertight.
Sorry, but in essence, the examples you've provided are more about how well you've managed to protect yourselves from the vicissitudes of the real corporate world for so long. For that, I tip my hat to you, but the undeniable truth is that the world just isn't like that anymore. It's vicious, it's nasty and, with my hand on my heart, I wish it were different but it's not.
MrB
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Mr Bunker, the point I'm tring to make, is our agreements are the only real difference between us and new fleet. Without them we have no protection. BA are not honouring their own agreements now. Why will it be any different, if we agree to this new proposal. We will just have less left to protect.
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I do understand where you're coming from, truly. I think the point I'm making, albeit obliquely, is that the kinds of guarantees and protections that you seek from the company simply don't exist in modern business. Again, from a point of view of what would be desirable, I absolutely agree but the truth is that no major modern company will ever offer the kinds of protections that you seek. It simply renders them uncompetitive. Yes, it's a race to the bottom for us all and I abhor it for that alone but it's the world we now, regrettably, live in.
MrB
MrB
mohitomaster
'' Money was no object, even the incredibly expensive wet leasing of aircraft''
Wrong! During the last IA on a number of EF routes it was cheaper to wet lease than operate our own aircraft and crews. The charter operators C/C are generally far more productive than BA. ie Larnaca out and back, double Nice/Frankfurt etc. with same crew and a/c etc.(B767)
Wrong! During the last IA on a number of EF routes it was cheaper to wet lease than operate our own aircraft and crews. The charter operators C/C are generally far more productive than BA. ie Larnaca out and back, double Nice/Frankfurt etc. with same crew and a/c etc.(B767)
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our agreements are the only real difference between us and new fleet
a deal is on the table to guarantee those, but it truly sounds like you want to throw all that away with unwarranted strike action.
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union busting
I am going to take a sideways step here.
I do not believe the dispute is primarily about 'union busting' it is about cost savings and putting the companies fixed/ongoing costs for the future under control so that the airline can actually turn a profit significant enough to attract investors/share holders and also purchase significant new equipment in terms of aircraft, IFE etc. Our 1st class is a shadow of what it should be and the charter airlines, low cost and asian carriers are all with us or beyond us - not like it was when I joined BA and we were so far ahead of the rest (or at least the vast majority of them).
That said all of us that have worked for BA for a number of years know that the Cabin Crew unions (almost exclusively BASSA) have been paramount in resiting any progress the company want to make. Anything that has been tried to be achieved, either long term or operationally on the day to allow us to adapt to a fluid situation has been denied by BASSA. Managers can't manage, Captains can't be 'The Captain', Dispatchers can't dispatch, Supervisors can't supervise all because BASSA have ruled with an iron fist - many, many crew will not do anything to help the comapny or the situation unless BASSA agree it first. Those that do, get harranged by the unions reps afterwards. How can any company operate like this is the modern world.
If Union Busting is on the agenda, then who is to blame and who in the company apart from cabin crew and those with left wing political agendas would care?
I am 100% firmly behind BA 'busting' the current CC union that they have tried to work with for so many years. Unfortunatley in these days of political correctness public figures are not allowed to speak the truth that is why the CEO of any company would always have to deny this. I have always believed that whatever cost savings are agreed (or not agreed) to this time with CC that unless BASSA are broken, then any progress the company needs to make will be limited. You simply cannot run a business with such an arrogant union with such power, power that has most certainly corrupted over the years.
To succeed as a company and therefore as departments and individuals we need to be dynamic and change quickly with the times. The days of saying no, no, never have to end because as we waste time and lose money arguing with CC unions all are competitors go sailing by with our (ex) customers on board :-(
If that what it takes ( nd I am 100% in belief that it does) then bust that union and count on my (and many others) support!
Lets then hope that a modern union that can negotiate can then take its place and protect our workers rights whilst balancing the needs of the business so that we have a profitable business with jobs that are still better than most in any other UK airline.
I do not believe the dispute is primarily about 'union busting' it is about cost savings and putting the companies fixed/ongoing costs for the future under control so that the airline can actually turn a profit significant enough to attract investors/share holders and also purchase significant new equipment in terms of aircraft, IFE etc. Our 1st class is a shadow of what it should be and the charter airlines, low cost and asian carriers are all with us or beyond us - not like it was when I joined BA and we were so far ahead of the rest (or at least the vast majority of them).
That said all of us that have worked for BA for a number of years know that the Cabin Crew unions (almost exclusively BASSA) have been paramount in resiting any progress the company want to make. Anything that has been tried to be achieved, either long term or operationally on the day to allow us to adapt to a fluid situation has been denied by BASSA. Managers can't manage, Captains can't be 'The Captain', Dispatchers can't dispatch, Supervisors can't supervise all because BASSA have ruled with an iron fist - many, many crew will not do anything to help the comapny or the situation unless BASSA agree it first. Those that do, get harranged by the unions reps afterwards. How can any company operate like this is the modern world.
If Union Busting is on the agenda, then who is to blame and who in the company apart from cabin crew and those with left wing political agendas would care?
I am 100% firmly behind BA 'busting' the current CC union that they have tried to work with for so many years. Unfortunatley in these days of political correctness public figures are not allowed to speak the truth that is why the CEO of any company would always have to deny this. I have always believed that whatever cost savings are agreed (or not agreed) to this time with CC that unless BASSA are broken, then any progress the company needs to make will be limited. You simply cannot run a business with such an arrogant union with such power, power that has most certainly corrupted over the years.
To succeed as a company and therefore as departments and individuals we need to be dynamic and change quickly with the times. The days of saying no, no, never have to end because as we waste time and lose money arguing with CC unions all are competitors go sailing by with our (ex) customers on board :-(
If that what it takes ( nd I am 100% in belief that it does) then bust that union and count on my (and many others) support!
Lets then hope that a modern union that can negotiate can then take its place and protect our workers rights whilst balancing the needs of the business so that we have a profitable business with jobs that are still better than most in any other UK airline.
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Mohitomaster
The '100 academics' that you refer to are all left wing union supporters and are all sympathisers with socialist views. Nothing wrong with that per se, but not a balanced and therefore credible group within the context of what you are trying to say.
The '100 academics' that you refer to are all left wing union supporters and are all sympathisers with socialist views. Nothing wrong with that per se, but not a balanced and therefore credible group within the context of what you are trying to say.
I know it has been said so many times before but I am going to say it again:
BASSA have brought this on themselves!
If BA were following some kind of plan to 'bust' the unions then BASSA was an obvious target.
No to the Long Range Agreement
No to midfleet/767
No to New York crew hotel (Fitzpatrick)
No to the consolidation (1997)
No to hourly rate - and less tax
No to pensions changes
No to hot towels
No to window blinds
No negotiating
NO NO NO NO
What good is a union that has only one response to ANY proposal?
They have self-destroyed and are now on a long and very slippery slope to oblivion - Good
BASSA have brought this on themselves!
If BA were following some kind of plan to 'bust' the unions then BASSA was an obvious target.
No to the Long Range Agreement
No to midfleet/767
No to New York crew hotel (Fitzpatrick)
No to the consolidation (1997)
No to hourly rate - and less tax
No to pensions changes
No to hot towels
No to window blinds
No negotiating
NO NO NO NO
What good is a union that has only one response to ANY proposal?
They have self-destroyed and are now on a long and very slippery slope to oblivion - Good
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So here I am, nine months after leaving Amicus, with my ballot paper in hand. How exciting! What should I do with it I wonder?
a) Vote Yes (perhaps not)
b) Vote No (tempting but would it be right?)
c) Bin it (where is the fun in that?)
d) Send it to some one in BA? (Who would want it?)
Anyone care to suggest the solution?
a) Vote Yes (perhaps not)
b) Vote No (tempting but would it be right?)
c) Bin it (where is the fun in that?)
d) Send it to some one in BA? (Who would want it?)
Anyone care to suggest the solution?
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If Union Busting is on the agenda, then who is to blame and who in the company apart from cabin crew and those with left wing political agendas would care?
Thats lovely. so 14000 crew, should just suffer their lot, and accept their career is over? Anyone working for a large company should be really worried. Are you next?
OH, but the deal is great, I hear you say!! the deal is meaningless without a trade union.
This whole dispute has been planned for years. BA could have ended it months ago. They don't want to, not without their prize. BASSA BURIED. Unfortunately I don't think they banked on such resistance. Crew are more determined than ever to go down fighting, so this will drag on.
Thats lovely. so 14000 crew, should just suffer their lot, and accept their career is over? Anyone working for a large company should be really worried. Are you next?
OH, but the deal is great, I hear you say!! the deal is meaningless without a trade union.
This whole dispute has been planned for years. BA could have ended it months ago. They don't want to, not without their prize. BASSA BURIED. Unfortunately I don't think they banked on such resistance. Crew are more determined than ever to go down fighting, so this will drag on.
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Mohitomaster,
Perhaps you should reflect inwards as to why BA wish BASSA to pull its financial weight? BASSA have steadfastly refused to move on anything remotely resembling modernisation of T's & C's for the past 20 years. They have put themselves so far out of touch with all other Unions with respect to modern working practices that they stick out like a sore thumb.
In recent discussions over the move from T1/T4 to T5 lots of contracts were rationalised to fit the new working environment. Many (the loaders) were sanctioned by Unite. BASSA have NEVER agreed to any form of change and the management have been too weak to deal with it.
This time around many other Unions claused their changes with a clause which stated that they would only sign off permanently on changes if ALL Unions agreed to make changes. This left BA with little choice but to implement change when, as expected, BASSA refused to believe in anything.
Union busting? Not really. BA could have financially bankrupt BASSA at any point during the court disputes but that is not what they want. DH and the other reps have brought upon themselevs consequences derived from their own actions. Don't turn up to work regularly, get sacked, use intimidatory and threatening behaviour against other employees, get suspended.
There is no 'Union busting' going on, all that is happening is BASSA throwing a hissy fit because nobody gives a damn about them anymore.
Get over it. BASSA will remain but they won't be holding the company by the balls anymore and amen to that.
Perhaps you should reflect inwards as to why BA wish BASSA to pull its financial weight? BASSA have steadfastly refused to move on anything remotely resembling modernisation of T's & C's for the past 20 years. They have put themselves so far out of touch with all other Unions with respect to modern working practices that they stick out like a sore thumb.
In recent discussions over the move from T1/T4 to T5 lots of contracts were rationalised to fit the new working environment. Many (the loaders) were sanctioned by Unite. BASSA have NEVER agreed to any form of change and the management have been too weak to deal with it.
This time around many other Unions claused their changes with a clause which stated that they would only sign off permanently on changes if ALL Unions agreed to make changes. This left BA with little choice but to implement change when, as expected, BASSA refused to believe in anything.
Union busting? Not really. BA could have financially bankrupt BASSA at any point during the court disputes but that is not what they want. DH and the other reps have brought upon themselevs consequences derived from their own actions. Don't turn up to work regularly, get sacked, use intimidatory and threatening behaviour against other employees, get suspended.
There is no 'Union busting' going on, all that is happening is BASSA throwing a hissy fit because nobody gives a damn about them anymore.
Get over it. BASSA will remain but they won't be holding the company by the balls anymore and amen to that.