BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Seems to me that the Amicus bunch are just sore that they have yet again been outflanked. They are currently stuck as a branch within Unite and like BASSA have no ability to do their own thing. They can shriek and roar about how unjust it all is, although their protestations are sharply at odds with the Amicus principal candidate for the GenSec job, Les Bayliss, but then I guess they are rooting for Jerry Hicks. Odd how this bolt from the blue arrived so close to the kickoff for the Unite Gen Sec election.
Sure, only BASSA have the capability to call the dispute off, but frankly, most passengers are pretty unfazed by the noises coming from that camp. They pay more heed to the numbers of crew who reported for work during the last walk out and the volumes of volunteers. They believe BA management when they say that the company will operate a 100% schedule in the event of a strike.
Take a look at some of the comment on the frequent flyer forums. There are a lot of FFs who state that they had a better experience with the crews who flew during the strike period than they did immediately prior to or following the walkouts.
There are also a lot of FFs who are happily booking tickets for the next few months. Doesn't sound like the actions of a customer base who think that BASSA have a snowball's chance in hell of getting an effective strike together.
The diehards in BASSA and CC89 really ought to get along to one of the sessions on results. The forward bookings profile is not being damaged. That suggests that the battle to dent profitability by scaremongering isn't working. Time for BASSA and C89 to earn a new trick.
Finally, the delay in putting out the ballot has now cost both branches the opportunity for a christmas strike. Unless of course they want to restrict the voting to a week or so, which is hardly consulting
So time to wake up smell the coffee, chuck another idea in the fishpond and see if it blows bubbles, take a reality check. Stop messing around and start representing your members, because if they don't they won't have much of a membership to worry about.
Sure, only BASSA have the capability to call the dispute off, but frankly, most passengers are pretty unfazed by the noises coming from that camp. They pay more heed to the numbers of crew who reported for work during the last walk out and the volumes of volunteers. They believe BA management when they say that the company will operate a 100% schedule in the event of a strike.
Take a look at some of the comment on the frequent flyer forums. There are a lot of FFs who state that they had a better experience with the crews who flew during the strike period than they did immediately prior to or following the walkouts.
There are also a lot of FFs who are happily booking tickets for the next few months. Doesn't sound like the actions of a customer base who think that BASSA have a snowball's chance in hell of getting an effective strike together.
The diehards in BASSA and CC89 really ought to get along to one of the sessions on results. The forward bookings profile is not being damaged. That suggests that the battle to dent profitability by scaremongering isn't working. Time for BASSA and C89 to earn a new trick.
Finally, the delay in putting out the ballot has now cost both branches the opportunity for a christmas strike. Unless of course they want to restrict the voting to a week or so, which is hardly consulting
So time to wake up smell the coffee, chuck another idea in the fishpond and see if it blows bubbles, take a reality check. Stop messing around and start representing your members, because if they don't they won't have much of a membership to worry about.
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This post by Amicus clearly demonstrates that they no longer have any say within Unite, nor do they have any strategy to offer their members - other than "fight to the death".
Which is brave rhetoric, but stupid , and doomed to failure. The last hissy fit perhaps.
Lady Fly Fly might like to tell us what she hopes to achieve by striking once more, and explain to us mere mortals why BA will accede to this strike. (They won't of course).
Which is brave rhetoric, but stupid , and doomed to failure. The last hissy fit perhaps.
Lady Fly Fly might like to tell us what she hopes to achieve by striking once more, and explain to us mere mortals why BA will accede to this strike. (They won't of course).
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It's not much a case of what the branches hope to achieve from further strike action. It's what are they striking for and what is it they want. It is patently obvious that the manning levels will not be returned to pre 09 levels.It is also clear that the union has been offered a route back on the staff travel issue. The dismissals have also been addressed. OK so maybe the options aren't quite what the branches sought.time for BASSA and CC89 to put their cards on the table rather than just say no.
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Litebulbs
Industrial action in response to sacked and suspended members. Nothing to do with the current dispute. If it was, then obviously, they were punished because of the industrial action, not for matters of discipline
For a strike to be effective it must be supported by an overwhelming majority of the workers. UNITE has found out the hard way that they do not have this support. They may get large percentages at ballots for IA but crucially they do not get an overwhelming percentage of their members that are actually prepared to strike. The ballot must have both a very percentage turn out but also a very high percentage voting for IA that will carry out IA in accordance with their vote. Voting is less important than action when the employer doesn't listen to messages sent by a ballot. If a union cannot cripple the economic activity of a company then striking is a waste of time and becomes more costly to the workers than the company - as BASSA has just re-proven.
CC89 may get all their members to strike but as they number approx 2000, it will have little impact on BA's operation. BASSA will be unable to help them as secondary action is illegal and will result in sackings.
For CC89 all of their ramblings are just posturing as their threat of continued or regular IA is a paper tiger. It is likely to lead to their members being marginalised and ultimately given new contracts - a "take it or effectively sack yourself" option.
CC89 used to have some value to BA as it split the CC work group and the two unions could be played off against each other - indeed often BA could rely on the stupidity of the two groups to shoot themselves in their feet. The BASSA/CC89 spat during this dispute has aided BA to an incredible extent and effectively allowed the imposition to be legal. This value is now diminishing with every new member of MF that is recruited. CC89 need to be a lot more savvy or it will cease to exist in fairly short order.
CC89 cannot go it alone, they have to act in concert with BASSA or they are history.
Just for clarity Amicus/CC89 cannot hold a separate ballot for IA or anything else it is a single workplace for cabin crew.
The same applies to BASSA if one group holds a ballot it must include all members in that workplace and this has been tested in law.
All they can do is tell their members to vote no, which is what they have doneand if the result is yes then it will be applied to ALL members regardless.
BA will not ask to see who voted yes or no and then apply different settlements it is after all a secret ballot.
The same applies to BASSA if one group holds a ballot it must include all members in that workplace and this has been tested in law.
All they can do is tell their members to vote no, which is what they have doneand if the result is yes then it will be applied to ALL members regardless.
BA will not ask to see who voted yes or no and then apply different settlements it is after all a secret ballot.
The Meltdown Continues......
BASSA- A STEP TOO FAR- BASSA STATEMENT Nov 9th, 2010
We have now been presented with all the paperwork pertaining to the offer made by BA to end this dispute. We still think the best way forward is to let all members of Amicus and BASSA ultimately decide whether this offer is acceptable or not. For that to happen BA required that the two unions give a “yes” recommendation. Three weeks ago, we were prepared, reluctantly, to go down that road to give you all a vote. Your collective voice will always be louder than that of your committee.
While we would still like to see this offer put to ballot, BASSA are now not prepared to give a “yes” recommendation. We have since seen Apendix II which we were given over the weekend which contain further conditions that make this now a “step too far” in our opinion.
There are some good parts within BA’s offer, in particular their acceptance of binding independent ACAS arbitration, but there are many other clauses which we simply, as a trade union, can not recommend. While all those disciplined on dispute related incidences are at the forefront of our concerns, especially those who have been dismissed, we simply can not be held to ransom. Unite and Tony Woodley have always positioned the fate of the disciplined members as to be their number 1 priority. We respect and thank them for that and hope they understand, in turn, what we mean by a “step too far.”
We still plan to go ahead with the agreed ballot as it is important all crew, who are members of Unite, should still have their say through the democratic process.
BASSA- A STEP TOO FAR- BASSA STATEMENT Nov 9th, 2010
We have now been presented with all the paperwork pertaining to the offer made by BA to end this dispute. We still think the best way forward is to let all members of Amicus and BASSA ultimately decide whether this offer is acceptable or not. For that to happen BA required that the two unions give a “yes” recommendation. Three weeks ago, we were prepared, reluctantly, to go down that road to give you all a vote. Your collective voice will always be louder than that of your committee.
While we would still like to see this offer put to ballot, BASSA are now not prepared to give a “yes” recommendation. We have since seen Apendix II which we were given over the weekend which contain further conditions that make this now a “step too far” in our opinion.
There are some good parts within BA’s offer, in particular their acceptance of binding independent ACAS arbitration, but there are many other clauses which we simply, as a trade union, can not recommend. While all those disciplined on dispute related incidences are at the forefront of our concerns, especially those who have been dismissed, we simply can not be held to ransom. Unite and Tony Woodley have always positioned the fate of the disciplined members as to be their number 1 priority. We respect and thank them for that and hope they understand, in turn, what we mean by a “step too far.”
We still plan to go ahead with the agreed ballot as it is important all crew, who are members of Unite, should still have their say through the democratic process.
Junior trash
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and
www.santascrew.co.uk
Not clear if its called santa screw because they want to wreck our customers christmas or not.
www.santascrew.co.uk
Not clear if its called santa screw because they want to wreck our customers christmas or not.
Junior trash
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Working back from christmas. BASSA will want to strike by Christmas eve at absolute latest. So 1 week strike notice, 4 week ballot, 1 week ballot notice. That means BA can pull the offer and the strikers staff travel on 19th Nov and totally stuff them. Is the waterside theatre booked that day?
a warning would have been nice.
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Do the leaders of the BASSA and Amicus factions finally realise that all is lost? How "clever" of them to say that they do not recommend the deal - knowing that their members may well accept it just to end all of this stupidity.
The union leaders can then retreat to their standard position of blaming everybody else - in this case the cabin crew (although they're bound to find an anti-pilot angle!).
The union leaders can then retreat to their standard position of blaming everybody else - in this case the cabin crew (although they're bound to find an anti-pilot angle!).
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It seems to me that no one can now logically predict what will happen next - so, my question is - what do we think will happen ?
I would not be surprised if BASSA now go straight to a ballot so they can get the Christmas period, but as has been debated, there are many issues to go though to make that watertight and effective
I would not be surprised if BASSA now go straight to a ballot so they can get the Christmas period, but as has been debated, there are many issues to go though to make that watertight and effective
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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It's not inconceivable that the offer (including the return of ST) will be withdrawn as neither BASSA nor AMICUS have publically approved the deal? This was a condition of the offer.
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For Bassa to call for strike action they need Unites permission, once given then only Bassa can call the action off. Unite has already stated that this deal is the best that can be achieved by negotiation in the present climate, so I think that Unite will refuse to support a strike ballot as previous strikes have failed to have the desired affect.
Both branches have already been complaining of this -
If they are allowed to ballot, personally I think Xmas is out of the window but there has been talk on BF and CF of targeting Jan 21st.
Both branches have already been complaining of this -
Originally Posted by DH/Bassa
This almost pains me to say but we must also be cognisant of a third person in all this. Unite. If the reps had rejected this deal or gone to ballot with a recommendation to reject (WW permitting) would we get the full support from Unite if the vote was No? We will never know the answer to that but this way if the vote is No - ie rejection - then Unite will have no other choice but to back another industrial action ballot. They are on record saying that. This too had an influence on how BASSA came to decide the way we did.
Originally Posted by CC89
This came at the end of a great deal of soul searching and the profound feeling that this has indeed become a two dog fight. Sadly, it seems it has become Unite and British Airways vs Amicus and Bassa. We are being held to ransom at every turn. How ridiculous is it that we have to sweet talk Unite and kowtow to them in order to get the promise of an industrial action ballot, when it is your right to have one, if that is what you want. Indeed, you have been screaming that at us and them for months now. What more must you do? Reject this offer for the third time? So be it.
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I wouldn't worry too much about a coherent, concerted response. From what I can ascertain elsewhere half the respondent membership are too concerned about getting one over a given staff group in any number of ways. APD/upgrades tax/fraud seems to be the topic du jour this time.
Round and round we go.
MrB
Round and round we go.
MrB
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Is there any evidence that it has anything to do with BA cabin crew, other than its own claim that it does.?
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Is there any evidence that it has anything to do with BA cabin crew, other than its own claim that it does.?
Nominet - WHOIS
From the Amicus message:
What has been seen in Appendix II? If it is so important, why are they not telling us what it is? Does anyone here know?
HiFlyer14,
Not sure about that. BASSA were part of the TGWU, and CC89 were part of Amicus. The TGWU and Amicus then came together to form Unite. Surely that makes BASSA and CC89 members of Unite in the same form - one can no more break away from Unite easier than another!
While we would still like to see this offer put to ballot, BASSA are now not prepared to give a “yes” recommendation. We have since seen Apendix II which we were given over the weekend which contain further conditions that make this now a “step too far” in our opinion.
HiFlyer14,
To my knowledge, Amicus(CC89) retain their independent constitution rules, and could, if they wanted, break away and once again be independent.
BASSA, on the other hand, are a branch of Unite, and remain under the Unite umbrella (and ultimately control?). They cannot break away.
BASSA, on the other hand, are a branch of Unite, and remain under the Unite umbrella (and ultimately control?). They cannot break away.
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CC89 cannot go it alone, they have to act in concert with BASSA or they are history.
BASSA, on the other hand, are a branch of Unite, and remain under the Unite umbrella (and ultimately control?). They cannot break away.
It is clear now that Unite have had enough of the shenanigans, and are not prepared to fund or support BASSA/Amicus any further. I believe that the clause in the offer for not supporting disciplinaries is more for Unite's benefit than BA's. After all, BA could not stop anyone going to an independent lawyer or tribunal, so the clause appears to serve little purpose for BA. It does however have huge financial implications for Unite, so could it be that Unite wanted it in there as they simply do not want to defend the defenceless?
The next few weeks could be very interesting.
I am BA cabin crew - This is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
Last edited by HiFlyer14; 10th Nov 2010 at 10:58.