BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

[Bunk Monitor]

According to the Guardian talks have been taking place this week and "substantial progress" has been made. Also according to a Tweeted message from Amicus, all Mixed Fleet courses for November/December have been cancelled.....

[The Moo]

Miss BA your new MTP etc is non contractual. Have BA not demonstrated in the last 12 months that anything they feel to be non contractual they can eventually take away with no agruments ?

[Miss BA]

MTP? Not sure what they could take away Moo?

[MissM]

Anyone who signed the individual offer sold themselves down the river.

The pay deal is only for three years. Wait until they want to re-negotiate the top-up payment and be rest assured it will be lowered because lucrative routes have gone over to Mixed Fleet and thus the yearly average earning is lower. Since you won't have any union representation either it will be a take it or leave it situation.

Good news if courses have been cancelled because they haven't found enough suitable candidates. If true I guess that's because many can see a bit further beyond and understand what a lousy package BA are offering.

[Miss BA]

Miss M,

Why have we sold ourselves down the river? We are still getting the same pay as you are ( and being increased in January), same allowances and same terms and conditions.

If we all lived our lives saying " but what if" no one would get any where.

Funny how some members of your organisation emailed Bill Francis to ask if they could sign up for it after the closing date.

[Wirbelsturm]

The pay deal is only for three years. Wait until they want to re-negotiate the top-up payment and be rest assured it will be lowered because lucrative routes have gone over to Mixed Fleet and thus the yearly average earning is lower. Since you won't have any union representation either it will be a take it or leave it situation.

You have sown the seeds of your own demise through inability to negotiate like adults. If BASSA had even contemplated a combined rate for flying hours consisting of the meal payments, destination payments, box payments etc. being rolled into one then the spectre of 'losing' high allowance routes to New Fleet would never have existed. As BASSA is chaired by LH crew who would sell their own Grandmother to protect their cash cows at the expense of all others change was never really on the cards was it.

The example of what could have been done is already operating in the airline where 'high paying trips' doesn't exist anymore and the route structure is open to all. Whilst costing some money and making others money the transition was ok resulting in a more equitable rostering system.

All of this was made available to CC but BASSA stonewalled it. Why?

BA offered to discuss New Fleet with BASSA. BASSA refused. BA offered a second time, re-iterating that if BASSA wanted some sort of influence over the formation, or indeed if NF was to be formed, then they HAD to sit down and discuss it. Again BASSA point blank refused.

BASSA have fired their one and only IA weapon and shot themselves in the foot. Why should BA continue to deal with a bunch of malcontents who are paling into insignificance both for the Airline and for their Union paymasters Unite who have bigger problems on the horizon.

You may spout union rhetoric at all those who have signed the new contract Miss M but, ultimately, it is YOUR UNION through purile arguments and innevective leadership which has placed and pushed many into the position of having to accept it to pay their bills.

[Pornpants1]

Bunk Monitor

According to the Guardian talks have been taking place this week and "substantial progress" has been made. Also according to a Tweeted message from Amicus, all Mixed Fleet courses for November/December have been cancelled.....

Seems very few people have bothered to pick up on this. I heard the same late this week, or is that late last week?? Anyway the only elaboration I got was that UNITE, read BASSA, read Cabin Crew, would pay a very high price to get New Fleet off the table and Staff Travel back

[Miss BA]

Pay a high price? In what way?

[TorC]

Originally Posted by MissM

........
The pay deal is only for three years. Wait until they want to re-negotiate the top-up payment and be rest assured it will be lowered because lucrative routes have gone over to Mixed Fleet and thus the yearly average earning is lower. Since you won't have any union representation either it will be a take it or leave it situation........

What might BASSA be able to get for you? Surely they are not holding-out for a watertight, gold-plated, for-a-lifetime, never-ending deal? That'd be totally unrealistic, so come to think of it, it probably IS what they're holding-out for

Since BASSA have chosen (along with CrewForum, which I thought was an "independant" site?) to restrict the ability of their members to discuss matters privately amongst themselves, the Professional Cabin Crew Council forum at www.mypccc.co.uk is now the only place where BA CC can do so.

And as PCCC membership grows daily, I wouldn't have too many fears about not having representation in the future.

[Dixie Dean]

Bassa say today they were due to announce a new ballot.

However Unite are in talks with BA and have told BASSA not to proceed with the ballot.

DD

[Miss BA]

Thanks Dixie, I am always the last to know things..

[diut]

The only reason as to why they might have decided to stop NF, if it is true, would not really be down to us, but it is possibly because of what is going on at the moment.

I have flown with temps,which are not new fleet but who works under the same pay scale at the moment, and they are all struggling. I have seen people crying in briefing room and people saying they are sleeping in CRC because coming in for a t&b is not worth the money for the petrol.

I hope the management has seen this and realized that some changes were needed.

So for all of you who keep on talking about the new fleet as the future, come and fly with us for a day and if you already do that, speak to these guys and you might find out why so many of us are against it.

[MrBunker]

Aside from the, as ever, slightly overblown rhetoric - this could be interesting.

Bassa

[Wirbelsturm]

this could be interesting.

Until Lizanne and Duncan don't like the font the proposal is printed in!

[Pornpants1]

MissBA

You now know what I know:-

elaborate.... "add more detail concerning what has already been said : he would not elaborate on his news."

I would however speculate, that in order to get New Fleet off the table, and staff travel back, the proposal may contain something along the lines of another Purser off long haul aircraft to be replaced by main crew, some of those cost saving could be used to offer VR for those disenchanted with BA.

Reduced MBTs on some trips, new entrant pay scales and or a slower progression along the existing pay scales, or a pay cap for all new joiners.

You name it, hourly rate could also be back!

As I said its speculation! But no more New Fleet and staff travel returned is not going to come cheap.

All these have been discussed at great length before, and off course BASSA have made clear that neither BASSA or CC89 have been at the table, so standby for another chapter of "the good, the bad, and the ugly" later next week or whenever Tony and Derek make the "new deal" public

Its clear UNITE don't want or need another failed strike on their hands. So the timing of this "new deal" appears just like all the other stalling tactics used by UNITE to ensure that there will be no strikes at Christmas.

Maybe this time its different

[Pornpants1]

UNITE can't impose a solution on BASSA, after the strike that wasn't in February 2007 BASSA changed the rules, only BASSA can put a stop to the runaway train

[Yellow Pen]

But a 'Take it or leave it, we'll support you no further' ultimatum is an imposition in all but name, and we know how much BASSA dislike imposition!

[diut]

I will never understand why people like yourself MISS BA, who has worked all strike days, has not moved on to the NEWFLEET..apparently they are short of candidates so why not helping the management once again and move over?

Why is it okay for someone else to be paid 11k and 2.40 an hour and not for you?

Me,on my part,have been trying everything I could to fight the introduction of such pay.

Even though the strike was about imposition we all knew talks were about other subjects as well- one was the introduction of mixed fleet- like it was 4 years ago. It is never just about one line ,there is always more to it.

So,explain me why, if you wish, you are not moving onto the new fleet.

[Wirbelsturm]

UNITE can't impose a solution on BASSA, after the strike that wasn't in February 2007 BASSA changed the rules, only BASSA can put a stop to the runaway train

I agree with Yellow Pen, I think Tony Woodleys patience can only be stretched so far. Unite have a nasty year ahead of them with the public sector. The last thing they need is the negative publicity of further strikes from members whose jobs haven't even been threatened even if their representatives doomsday projections lead them to think that way!

Perhaps BASSA are under threat of removal from Unite if they don't play ball, who knows whats going on behind the scenes with God Duncan!

[pushycat]

T or C,

you are incorrect,there are two other forums where BA crew can communicate and they are in addition to the PCCC.

I'm not sure on a forum such as this which displays such animosity towards cabin crew that I want to give the links though.