BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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upperdeckpsr
If I were you I would not bother with the PCCC. Nobody knows who they are and there's a strong rumour that this council has either been set up by BA or it being funded by management.
If they keep insisting on remanining anonymous, how are they going to offer representation?
If I were you I would not bother with the PCCC. Nobody knows who they are and there's a strong rumour that this council has either been set up by BA or it being funded by management.
If they keep insisting on remanining anonymous, how are they going to offer representation?
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MissM
What do you think would be reasonable with regard to the sacked staff? Do you want full reinstatement, regardless of the dismissal reason, or an independent review, if requested by the affected individuals?
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MissM
Ref the PCCC - I was trying to find out some answers I guess.
What is a bit disconcerting is that they seem to be self-elected and they are embarking on a 'recruitment' drive for people to be on their committee. Of those who are interested, they will be contacting and interviewing prospective candidates over the coming weeks apparently - I assume the self-elected committee will then chose who can join them on their self-elected committee!
So no democratic election process? No letting members vote for their preferred candidate? And a self-elected committee who choose who can be on their committee?
Sound more like a dictatorship than a democracy to me.
What is a bit disconcerting is that they seem to be self-elected and they are embarking on a 'recruitment' drive for people to be on their committee. Of those who are interested, they will be contacting and interviewing prospective candidates over the coming weeks apparently - I assume the self-elected committee will then chose who can join them on their self-elected committee!
So no democratic election process? No letting members vote for their preferred candidate? And a self-elected committee who choose who can be on their committee?
Sound more like a dictatorship than a democracy to me.
Litebulbs,
The disciplinary process was agreed jointly between BA and Unite. The fact that 20 staff have been sacked as a result of the process is neither here nor there. You cannot have a mutually agreed procedure that is immediately subject to external arbitration as soon as the results don't go the way you want.
If any of the sacked or otherwise disciplined people has a grievance about their handling then they and their union should take legal action under unfair dismissal legislation. The fact that the union is deciding not to persue this course is in itself interesting. There should be no way that the disciplinary process should be part of any sort of block trade off.
The disciplinary process was agreed jointly between BA and Unite. The fact that 20 staff have been sacked as a result of the process is neither here nor there. You cannot have a mutually agreed procedure that is immediately subject to external arbitration as soon as the results don't go the way you want.
If any of the sacked or otherwise disciplined people has a grievance about their handling then they and their union should take legal action under unfair dismissal legislation. The fact that the union is deciding not to persue this course is in itself interesting. There should be no way that the disciplinary process should be part of any sort of block trade off.
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You'll find genuine answers to all your genuine questions by logging on to the Professional Cabin Crew Council website at mypccc.co.uk
Why the sarcasm?
Unfortunate that you see it that way, that wasn't my intention.
I genuinely believe that all your questions should be answered and they will be, on the PCCC forum and if you direct them to PCCC admin.
The PPrune moderators have been generous to allow the PCCC to form part of the debate here but I think your questions willl be better placed on the PCCC forum.
So why not log on to mypccc.co.uk and give it a go. If you don't like it, you can always remove yourself from the membership. You have nothing to lose by joining and you may be pleasantly surprised.
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upperdeckpsr
It sounds a bit strange that they are recruiting people to become part of their committee. As to your questions, surely they should be able to speak outside of their forum instead of asking you to become a member with the intention of raising their membership number.
It sounds a bit strange that they are recruiting people to become part of their committee. As to your questions, surely they should be able to speak outside of their forum instead of asking you to become a member with the intention of raising their membership number.
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Miss M said,
As to your questions, surely they should be able to speak outside of their forum instead of asking you to become a member with the intention of raising their membership number
As to your questions, surely they should be able to speak outside of their forum instead of asking you to become a member with the intention of raising their membership number
Miss M said,
If I were you I would not bother with the PCCC. Nobody knows who they are and there's a strong rumour that this council has either been set up by BA or it being funded by management.
If I were you I would not bother with the PCCC. Nobody knows who they are and there's a strong rumour that this council has either been set up by BA or it being funded by management.
If only that was true, it would be so much easier on all fronts.
It has been said endlessly, that we are BA MANAGEMENT/PILOTS or god knows who else. We are BA cabin crew of all grades using our own money to fund everything including our own time. Not a penny has come from anywhere else, not even from our members as yet. We all have laptops, printers and paper is cheap enough to buy, that's all that is needed for the time being.
It's a small sacrifice to make so that our voices can heard on a platform where crew with like minded views can discuss and debate so we can protect our terms and conditions and save our jobs. We all have a common goal, Miss M. The only difference is we are doing it by listening and talking, not by striking.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 17th Oct 2010 at 14:39. Reason: Spelling and repetition
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If any of the sacked or otherwise disciplined people has a grievance about their handling then they and their union should take legal action under unfair dismissal legislation. The fact that the union is deciding not to persue this course is in itself interesting. There should be no way that the disciplinary process should be part of any sort of block trade off.
One thing I have learnt from this dispute and recent training, is that do not agree to any policy that could lead to a dismissal!
do not agree to any policy that could lead to a dismissal!
If there are individual cases where it is felt the process has gone wrong, fine, take legal recourse and go to tribunal. It is simply farcical to say that all cases are suspect and need looked at again. This is simply a smoke and mirrors ploy and I personally find it disgusting that supporters of rights in the workplace back moves whereby someone who had been sacked for bullying and harassment had another bite at the cherry.
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Where please Miss M? Can you give us any ideas? Every time we put up posters, leaflets, they are ripped up by BASSA members.
It's a small sacrifice to make so that our voices can heard on a platform where crew with like minded views can discuss and debate so we can protect our terms and conditions and save our jobs. We all have a common goal, Miss M. The only difference is we are doing it differently, by listening and talking, not by striking.
Last edited by MissM; 16th Oct 2010 at 16:46.
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So you take it to tribunal and you win, you could still be out of a job.
That is the legal system that ALL employees exist under - why should any sacked CC be a special case. Independant arbitration of the procedure would also not ensure that anyone got their job back.
Just so I can give this up and go to the pub could you please explain why CC are a special case and should not be subject to the standard disciplinary process as agreed by BA and Unite?
Just so I can give this up and go to the pub could you please explain why CC are a special case and should not be subject to the standard disciplinary process as agreed by BA and Unite?
MissM,
This
Gets to the root of the problem. The world has changed. Protecting your terms and conditions does not mean accepting permanent and significant changes. Every other work group at BA have accepted this except BASSA. The company is moving on and it is now doing so without you.
This
Protect our terms and conditions? What do you think BASSA are trying to do?
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Because they are suggesting that there is a possibility that the dismissals were not fair and an independent review prior to legal action could help. But as you say, unless it is binding arbitration, agreed by both parties, it will not matter.
We shall see what comes from the talks.
We shall see what comes from the talks.
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Miss M said
Protect our T/C's. Are you serious and I'm not being sarcastic. The problem is that ALL Bassa have tried to do in the past is PROTECT, PROTECT, PROTECT. We have moved on from that 'way' of negotiating many many years ago. Its all about evolvement amd involvement now, and being proactive in trying to move things forward for both ANY company AND the employees. Unfortunetely Bassa have always been a one trick pony and have now lost out. The problem is that ALL crew have lost out, thanks to Bassa. As for TW, I said last week that he is stringing this along to avoid an xmas strike just like he did over the general election. There will be NO 'significant progress' IMO
Plodding along said
The jury is still out on that one I'm afraid!!
Litebulbs said
Actually its not. All that has simply happened is BA have had enough and are now thank goodness taking control. A lot of the sacked crew have deserved it for years but have got away with murder because Bassa have protected them. Its like the Mafia literally. If things have been unfair, I know of a female CC manager who was verbally abused in a disgraceful and personal way. The guy got a 3 year written warning despite being a known troublemaker for years. So I would suggest BA could have sacked even more perhaps. Also remember not all have been sacked for 'strike' events - just most.
Protect our terms and conditions? What do you think BASSA are trying to do? Best of luck trying to talk to our management who gives the impression that they don't want to reach an agreement with us as it was TW who had to approach BA to resume talks.
Plodding along said
BASSA reps might be militant but they are not completely stupid.
Litebulbs said
It is just surprising that so many (21?) have been dismissed in a year or so.
Last edited by JUAN TRIPP; 16th Oct 2010 at 17:04.
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As expected, an offer has been made....
BASSA - Latest News TALKS UPDATE Oct 16th, 2010
We were hoping to update you today with details of the completion of talks between British Airways and UNITE.
These had been expected to conclude on Thursday night, however these discussions, including involvement of ACAS and the TUC, continued into Friday, and finally concluded late on Friday night. Unite General Secretary, Tony Woodley held a late night briefing session that finished during the early hours of this morning, for the small number of reps that were released by BA to attend.
We do now have details of the offer and also a reasonable understanding of its detail; as you would expect, it contains both good and bad. Some points have legal implications and so require additional legal opinion; we need to secure that as quickly as possible.
We must all carefully decide our next step.
To reassure you all, Tony has committed that the decision will not be taken by him but will, quite rightly, rest with your elected reps. We in turn, as is our duty, commit to you that decisions will also ultimately not be taken by us, but directly by you, our members.
We understand your frustrations but please be aware that there is no hidden agenda or anything more sinister going on than careful thought.
We have most of the information that we need but it still needs to be shared and considered with a lot of the people that represent you. BASSA chair, Lizanne Malone has also not as yet seen it as Bill Francis declined her de-rostering to attend the briefing held by Tony Woodley.
We ask for your patience just a little while longer, while your union’s formal response is formulated.
We stress again that there is no need for any anxiety, as any - and all - decisions taken, will be yours.
BASSA - Latest News TALKS UPDATE Oct 16th, 2010
We were hoping to update you today with details of the completion of talks between British Airways and UNITE.
These had been expected to conclude on Thursday night, however these discussions, including involvement of ACAS and the TUC, continued into Friday, and finally concluded late on Friday night. Unite General Secretary, Tony Woodley held a late night briefing session that finished during the early hours of this morning, for the small number of reps that were released by BA to attend.
We do now have details of the offer and also a reasonable understanding of its detail; as you would expect, it contains both good and bad. Some points have legal implications and so require additional legal opinion; we need to secure that as quickly as possible.
We must all carefully decide our next step.
To reassure you all, Tony has committed that the decision will not be taken by him but will, quite rightly, rest with your elected reps. We in turn, as is our duty, commit to you that decisions will also ultimately not be taken by us, but directly by you, our members.
We understand your frustrations but please be aware that there is no hidden agenda or anything more sinister going on than careful thought.
We have most of the information that we need but it still needs to be shared and considered with a lot of the people that represent you. BASSA chair, Lizanne Malone has also not as yet seen it as Bill Francis declined her de-rostering to attend the briefing held by Tony Woodley.
We ask for your patience just a little while longer, while your union’s formal response is formulated.
We stress again that there is no need for any anxiety, as any - and all - decisions taken, will be yours.
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Do you think it was reasonable not to de-roster the BASSA chair, to meet with the JGS of Unite, to discuss the previous weeks talks?