BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
tomkins
I don't think there is any financial gain to BA in hiring new BA F/C.They are only paid the market rate, and much less than some of our European competitors. (plus the huge training costs involved)
Flying hours near the maximum as well at the moment.
Compare their flying hours with BA legacy CC especially EF and you will see how much more competetive and flexible their Agreements are.
In the recent weather disruptions you did'nt need to ask BALPA if a 777 F/C could do a Frankfurt or any other European trip to get rid of the pax backlog, they just get on with it. Try that on with WW CC!
Flying hours near the maximum as well at the moment.
Compare their flying hours with BA legacy CC especially EF and you will see how much more competetive and flexible their Agreements are.
In the recent weather disruptions you did'nt need to ask BALPA if a 777 F/C could do a Frankfurt or any other European trip to get rid of the pax backlog, they just get on with it. Try that on with WW CC!
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The Bassa meeting is on the 10th Jan at 1100. There is a bit of a verbal war happening on another forum where the Amicus members want to know why its not a joint meeting. Most of the Bassa diehards including Miss LaLa keep mentioning its a 'normal' quarterly meeting. Normal eh! So why is red Len attending? Does the head of Unite 'normally' attend quarterly branch meetings? Bet he's not going to the Amicus meeting down the road, even if its at a similar time. 
Ummm. Not always. I love replying to a diehard Purser who says for example ' How dare you say that when I have 25 years experiance' My reply is 'yes, some crew have 25 years experience, and some have 1 years experience 25 times' Sadly we have a number of the latter!!
sorry but experience and loyalty count whatever the role
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I find if you ignore posts that just want to insult current BA WW and E/F cabin crew, all 13,000+ of us, they just give up eventually and get back to informed debate.
I think you will find that one of these knowledgeable posters doesn't even work for BA and the others take any opportunity to say the same thing over and over and over again.
I think you will find that one of these knowledgeable posters doesn't even work for BA and the others take any opportunity to say the same thing over and over and over again.
Last edited by Betty girl; 9th Jan 2011 at 10:02.
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You do not have to pay any grade at BA what they are currently being paid. Look at this post for instance (1385) about a wholly owned BA subsidiary and the rates of pay that are offered and accepted -
http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/409...ml#post5615471
You will always find some on more and some on less. The balance of the more or less equation will be driven by the performance of the company and the ease of replacement of the high cost employees. But in some jobs, lower rewards are a mere stepping stone to higher pay at a later date.
What I see as the defining moment by BA in how they handled this, is maneuvering Bassa into a position where a separate entity was not working together with existing crew. It is not very "trade union" of me, but I would have been doing everything in my power to have these new "low cost" crew as an integral part of the existing fleets, just like the pre/post 97 contract adjustments. However, that would have meant some change and we know that hasn't been welcomed in the past.
Easy for me to say however, two years down the line.
http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/409...ml#post5615471
You will always find some on more and some on less. The balance of the more or less equation will be driven by the performance of the company and the ease of replacement of the high cost employees. But in some jobs, lower rewards are a mere stepping stone to higher pay at a later date.
What I see as the defining moment by BA in how they handled this, is maneuvering Bassa into a position where a separate entity was not working together with existing crew. It is not very "trade union" of me, but I would have been doing everything in my power to have these new "low cost" crew as an integral part of the existing fleets, just like the pre/post 97 contract adjustments. However, that would have meant some change and we know that hasn't been welcomed in the past.
Easy for me to say however, two years down the line.
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Waspes
I would generally rather have an experienced cabin crew member avmed and interpersonal skills treating me if I fell ill on a flight, than one of the flight crew community. Horses for courses.
Last edited by Litebulbs; 9th Jan 2011 at 15:41.
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I would generally rather have an experienced cabin crew member avmed and interpersonal skills treating me if I fell ill on a flight, than one of the flight crew community. Horses for courses.
Horses for courses I suppose.
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I believe the primary reason behind the 'generic' standard of Avmed for the CC is to protect the crew from litigation should something go wrong. The application of controlled drugs is, obviously, dangerous thus requiring the authority of a trained paramedic or doctor.
That autority can be given, in a life threatening situation, over the radio by Medlink thus putting the legal responsibility onto the shoulders of the authorising person at Medlink.
No 'bashing' intended, the system is there to protect the crew for anything greater than that which requires rudimentary first aid.
Thread creep complete!
That autority can be given, in a life threatening situation, over the radio by Medlink thus putting the legal responsibility onto the shoulders of the authorising person at Medlink.
No 'bashing' intended, the system is there to protect the crew for anything greater than that which requires rudimentary first aid.
Thread creep complete!
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Decisions, decisions
We would all prefer them to be made easy for us.
But they aren't!
Medlink will make recommendations, but will rarely commit themselves.
A doctor on board may be willing to take responsibility for a course of action with regards to treatment and medication. The crew can administer first aid.
Some may even be medically qualified.
But in practice (even if it's blindingly obvious) it often comes down to the capt to decide a course of action - or not, as the case may be.
So, Litebulbs, it may be the crewmember who administers the plaster, or oxygen, or even cpr. But it could well be the capt's decisions which actually save you.
That's not to take any credit away from BA crew who are - generally - very good in medical emergencies. As are crew of other airlines i'm sure.
We would all prefer them to be made easy for us.
But they aren't!
Medlink will make recommendations, but will rarely commit themselves.
A doctor on board may be willing to take responsibility for a course of action with regards to treatment and medication. The crew can administer first aid.
Some may even be medically qualified.
But in practice (even if it's blindingly obvious) it often comes down to the capt to decide a course of action - or not, as the case may be.
So, Litebulbs, it may be the crewmember who administers the plaster, or oxygen, or even cpr. But it could well be the capt's decisions which actually save you.
That's not to take any credit away from BA crew who are - generally - very good in medical emergencies. As are crew of other airlines i'm sure.
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It's been confirmed by BASSA now. How honourable of BA to completely ignore our Ops & Choice Agreement by offering part-time to any crew who signs the individual offer and accordingly jumping the part-time queue.
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How honourable of BA to completely ignore our Ops & Choice Agreement by offering part-time to any crew who signs the individual offer and accordingly jumping the part-time queue.
Last edited by ottergirl; 9th Jan 2011 at 20:39.
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Hence the reason that all decisions are made through med link and the ability to actually administer controlled drugs is limited if not non existant.
Incidently, Medlink is quite a recent innovation to cope with a litigious US culture. When I started flying we learnt to administer Nubain injections by practising on an orange and apart from a pa asking for a doctor, we just had to get on with it!
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Taking a quick look at the Ops&Choice documents, I found this statement: "Consultation
All transfers, promotions and part time moves will be subject to discussions between BA and your Trade Unions at the monthly Manpower Meeting."
Maybe you can ask* bassa when they last attended a "monthly Manpower Meeting" on its members behalf.
If it were me, I'd also ask* them why, when they withdrew from these meetings,(and all others, except maybe H&S afaik) and thus lowered the ability for members concerns to be voiced, did they not also lower the cost of membership/representation accordingly.
I'd also want to know why, having withdrawn from the above mentioned meetings, they still think it right to promote themselves with the following statement on their website: "We are therefore fully involved in every aspect of cabin crew working life, including rosters and scheduling, pay, hotels, allowances and all working agreements and conditions."
Surely bassa doesn't subscribe to the "pay the same, get less in return" and "say one thing, do another" ways of doing business.
*Mind you, the last time I tried asking bassa anything, I was told in no uncertain terms exactly where I should go. While appreciative of their suggestion, I chose another, somewhat more attractive destination: freedom!
Last edited by TorC; 9th Jan 2011 at 21:23. Reason: misplaced *
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Miss m
My wife is on the part time list.
She left the union a year ago and accepted the settlement offer.
Apart from a letter informing her that they hope to honour her part time soon, in line with what was promised last year re the part time list, she's still waiting.
Question. If it turns out to your (dis)satisfaction, that this latest BASSA claim is all guff, will you finally consider the possibility that BASSA might not actually have been the best source of "facts" and "information" throughout all this, after all?
My wife is on the part time list.
She left the union a year ago and accepted the settlement offer.
Apart from a letter informing her that they hope to honour her part time soon, in line with what was promised last year re the part time list, she's still waiting.
Question. If it turns out to your (dis)satisfaction, that this latest BASSA claim is all guff, will you finally consider the possibility that BASSA might not actually have been the best source of "facts" and "information" throughout all this, after all?
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Blue Riband
it could be the crew members immediate action to restrain a passenger with an i.o.d in his shoe to save the aircraft.Thankfully situations of life and death rarely happen at the front or the rear of the aircraft.
it could be the crew members immediate action to restrain a passenger with an i.o.d in his shoe to save the aircraft.Thankfully situations of life and death rarely happen at the front or the rear of the aircraft.
Last edited by tomkins; 10th Jan 2011 at 01:22.
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Blue Ribband,
So do think that a 20 year pilot will have seen and dealt with -
So do think that a 20 year pilot will have seen and dealt with -
- less
- same
- more
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