British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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I am a moderate crew member.
I just think in some ways that the whole Mixed Fleet thing is oppurtunistic that will slow and maybe... just maybe end some current crews careers!
Oh there is no such thing as a career - well not as Cabin Crew anyway, we don't deserve houses etc as we are just waiters/waitresses in the sky according to some people!
I just wish WISH WISH that we could have Mixed Fleet crew flying ALONGSIDE us - like the current temps. They could have Scheme rest INBETWEEN trips but our rest on our trips. Of course reduced crew like we are working to now is fine of course we do need to be more efficient.
Any of BAs negotiating team please consider this
HAHA! As I think even BASSA will agree to that!
I just think in some ways that the whole Mixed Fleet thing is oppurtunistic that will slow and maybe... just maybe end some current crews careers!
Oh there is no such thing as a career - well not as Cabin Crew anyway, we don't deserve houses etc as we are just waiters/waitresses in the sky according to some people!
I just wish WISH WISH that we could have Mixed Fleet crew flying ALONGSIDE us - like the current temps. They could have Scheme rest INBETWEEN trips but our rest on our trips. Of course reduced crew like we are working to now is fine of course we do need to be more efficient.
Any of BAs negotiating team please consider this
HAHA! As I think even BASSA will agree to that!
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Ranger07
Are you suggesting that crew who took IA have not worked dam hard for this airline in the past?
Maybe you are right we should have got with the programme, taken whatever we were offered and reflected on how lucky we are to have jobs.
God why should we try and have a good standard of living when the money could go to a better cause.
I am sure the bonus culture management need more pay, the board must be running out of cash.
I do however feel for the shareholders due to the mismanagement of the company they are also suffering.
Are you suggesting that crew who took IA have not worked dam hard for this airline in the past?
Maybe you are right we should have got with the programme, taken whatever we were offered and reflected on how lucky we are to have jobs.
God why should we try and have a good standard of living when the money could go to a better cause.
I am sure the bonus culture management need more pay, the board must be running out of cash.
I do however feel for the shareholders due to the mismanagement of the company they are also suffering.
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Originally Posted by biteme
Humour me some more as I am interested on how you guys managed to offer to match the cost base BA could achieve at open skies. Would that not have caused sever changes to any future pilots pay and T&Cs.
Timothy you obviously have not had the same information from IFCE management as I have, my in box has several E-mails from BA stating that the reason they were removing my staff travel was to recoup some of the financial damage caused by IA.
So from your reply I take it that you think it is worth jeopardising a way forward for the sole reason of punishing the naughty crew who dared to stand up for what they believed in.
In my opinion that is not the actions of a man who wants to see an end to this dispute. What benefits can be gained by punishing the crew community for taking legal IA?
Will this solve BA problems?
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Interesting review of BA's service during the strike in today's Daily Mail:
Mail girl puts flights to Malaga to the test - and almost wished she'd stayed at home | Mail Online
For some reason the online version has an accompanying picture of a 747!
Max
Mail girl puts flights to Malaga to the test - and almost wished she'd stayed at home | Mail Online
For some reason the online version has an accompanying picture of a 747!
Max
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SlideBustle wrote:
This is the new reality: MF is the future and the writing is on the wall for WW and EF. If it's any consolation, cabin crew have several years to deal with the consequences of reduced flying on WW and EF. And within 15 years I reckon that those on existing contracts will be offered MF or VR.
Of course, Unite and BASSA should have been negotiating the conditions of MF instead of being obsessed with imposition, ST, VCC and disciplinaries.
I don't know - but I just am VERY worried now of Mixed Fleet - it is going to be very big in such a small space of time. They said 500 crew in 2 years initially now it is 1250 or whatever it is!
Of course, Unite and BASSA should have been negotiating the conditions of MF instead of being obsessed with imposition, ST, VCC and disciplinaries.
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biteme
Ranger07
Are you suggesting that crew who took IA have not worked dam hard for this airline in the past?
Maybe you are right we should have got with the programme, taken whatever we were offered and reflected on how lucky we are to have jobs.
God why should we try and have a good standard of living when the money could go to a better cause.
I am sure the bonus culture management need more pay, the board must be running out of cash.
I do however feel for the shareholders due to the mismanagement of the company they are also suffering.
Are you suggesting that crew who took IA have not worked dam hard for this airline in the past?
Maybe you are right we should have got with the programme, taken whatever we were offered and reflected on how lucky we are to have jobs.
God why should we try and have a good standard of living when the money could go to a better cause.
I am sure the bonus culture management need more pay, the board must be running out of cash.
I do however feel for the shareholders due to the mismanagement of the company they are also suffering.
Far from saying you should have taken anything on offer,by just 'talking' and 'discussing' what actually was on offer, it may not have got to this.
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Thanks for the reply Timothy,
My moral dilemma is the lack of truth from my leadership team.
I have asked the question many times re: ST and they will not admit the real reason behind the removal.
I could take it if they admitted the truth, as you so succinctly put the real reason for its removal.
My moral dilemma is the lack of truth from my leadership team.
I have asked the question many times re: ST and they will not admit the real reason behind the removal.
I could take it if they admitted the truth, as you so succinctly put the real reason for its removal.
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If BASSA had been smart and negotiated 14 months ago, there would have been no New Fleet, you would have had an extra ticket and a share scheme.
The longer this goes on the worse it has got for CC - each offer from BA is a little worse than before. The longer it goes on the more the company can take away from you. BASSA made this about union busting by presenting the company with a gold plated gift horse of an opportunity to break the union. WW did not look that gift horse in the mouth and now we are where we are.
BASSA had the opportunity to do what other staff groups did - to offer genuine savings achievable by small productivity changes. By continuing to say no, no, no, no without thinking BASSA has created this problem and is delivering to its own members the apocalypse they so feared.
Perhaps now more of the cabin crew will start to realise that the longer this goes on the more BASSA is hurting their own members in a desperate attempt to stop things that have already passed them by. CSDs are working on the trolley and the world did not stop rotating. The only thing BASSA are actually achieving is brand damage - gifting business to our competitors with lower cost bases. That is hardly a recipe for a long term, well recompensed job is it? This dispute will end and when it does how much damage will have been done by this union in pathetic and futile attempts to turn back the tide?
A constant refrain from BASSA is everything would be alright if the evil that is WW was removed from the negotiating process, this however should really be turned on its head - the BASSA leadership should be excluded from any negotiation and everything would be be better. Perhaps it is time for Nigel Stott, Lizanne Malone, Marcel Devereaux, Duncan Holley, Mark Everett et al to be sidelined for some people who can rationally analyse where the negotiating so far has got them and why.
This current BASSA leadership has presided over the marginalisation of their union. It has been made largely irrelevant by its own actions and has already seen its membership decimated. If the membership cannot see this then they only have themselves to blame. Loss of staff travel is the least of the membership's worries - their union is pretty much an irrelevance now to BA. Well done. Time for a change, perhaps someone who is not a CSD would be a start.
The longer this goes on the worse it has got for CC - each offer from BA is a little worse than before. The longer it goes on the more the company can take away from you. BASSA made this about union busting by presenting the company with a gold plated gift horse of an opportunity to break the union. WW did not look that gift horse in the mouth and now we are where we are.
BASSA had the opportunity to do what other staff groups did - to offer genuine savings achievable by small productivity changes. By continuing to say no, no, no, no without thinking BASSA has created this problem and is delivering to its own members the apocalypse they so feared.
Perhaps now more of the cabin crew will start to realise that the longer this goes on the more BASSA is hurting their own members in a desperate attempt to stop things that have already passed them by. CSDs are working on the trolley and the world did not stop rotating. The only thing BASSA are actually achieving is brand damage - gifting business to our competitors with lower cost bases. That is hardly a recipe for a long term, well recompensed job is it? This dispute will end and when it does how much damage will have been done by this union in pathetic and futile attempts to turn back the tide?
A constant refrain from BASSA is everything would be alright if the evil that is WW was removed from the negotiating process, this however should really be turned on its head - the BASSA leadership should be excluded from any negotiation and everything would be be better. Perhaps it is time for Nigel Stott, Lizanne Malone, Marcel Devereaux, Duncan Holley, Mark Everett et al to be sidelined for some people who can rationally analyse where the negotiating so far has got them and why.
This current BASSA leadership has presided over the marginalisation of their union. It has been made largely irrelevant by its own actions and has already seen its membership decimated. If the membership cannot see this then they only have themselves to blame. Loss of staff travel is the least of the membership's worries - their union is pretty much an irrelevance now to BA. Well done. Time for a change, perhaps someone who is not a CSD would be a start.
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Well if that is the case Caribbean Boy, I can see what you are saying BUT I would think any other work group at BA would be VERY angry if they could SEE, ie. it was blatantly obvious their lifestyle and way of living would be gone to new people on ''cheap'' contracts.
I can see what you are saying re: we have time to find a new job, but do you think people are just going to roll over and accept it? Like me who is in my 20s? OK I can train to do something else, but I do enjoy my job. I nor anyone else can be guaranteed any job but this is just blatant taking away the jobs for bonuses and shares! Not because BA desperately need a new fleet to survive (they have survived for years and profited for years with us expensive crew!)
Now don't get me wrong, I am not advocating a strike or anything, but I am just saying - do you think people are going to just accept this?
Why can't we have an intergrated approach - it would still save money as more new crew come in in the same way... it wouldn't save quite as much but would still save plenty?
I can see what you are saying re: we have time to find a new job, but do you think people are just going to roll over and accept it? Like me who is in my 20s? OK I can train to do something else, but I do enjoy my job. I nor anyone else can be guaranteed any job but this is just blatant taking away the jobs for bonuses and shares! Not because BA desperately need a new fleet to survive (they have survived for years and profited for years with us expensive crew!)
Now don't get me wrong, I am not advocating a strike or anything, but I am just saying - do you think people are going to just accept this?
Why can't we have an intergrated approach - it would still save money as more new crew come in in the same way... it wouldn't save quite as much but would still save plenty?
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Ranger07
They did show the offers I have copies on my PC.
They were not offers that the membership wanted.
We are in a very difficult situation at the moment and as I have stated I feel that we have problems in both camps.
This could be resolved but it will take some backing down from BASSA and WW.
Lets hope that sense is seen and the mess can be resolved.
What a lot of people don’t understand is that CC are by the nature of our job an emotional bunch.
The leadership team have failed to recognise this and treated us with contempt for the past few years.
In my opinion sadly this is the driving force behind the dispute.
I have worked in many departments in BA and understand the character traits that different roles attract.
I think the reason the flight crew community struggle to understand where the CC are on this dispute is you guys have a more methodological out look to life.
Left and right brain as WW put it....
They did show the offers I have copies on my PC.
They were not offers that the membership wanted.
We are in a very difficult situation at the moment and as I have stated I feel that we have problems in both camps.
This could be resolved but it will take some backing down from BASSA and WW.
Lets hope that sense is seen and the mess can be resolved.
What a lot of people don’t understand is that CC are by the nature of our job an emotional bunch.
The leadership team have failed to recognise this and treated us with contempt for the past few years.
In my opinion sadly this is the driving force behind the dispute.
I have worked in many departments in BA and understand the character traits that different roles attract.
I think the reason the flight crew community struggle to understand where the CC are on this dispute is you guys have a more methodological out look to life.
Left and right brain as WW put it....
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nice article...but who are the real bullies who impose?
Nice article indeed... and as Tiramisu said before, all flights during the strike where like VIP flights, crewed by people who work for BA, not BASSA and people who love their job and realise that changes have to be made...
Old good strike days...when entering the crc was a great experience, greeted by smiling faces... and now???
sour faced militants, that boast about how successful their strike was!!!! Can you believe it???
And now they cannot even remember what their strike was about...
ok...Imposition... What could ba have done if all talks were fruitless??? Of course they would impose so we can survive...
then New fleet... How many times has BF said that new fleet is a proposal? And it could have easily been removed from the agenda, should we find a suitable solution?
Now staff travel! Well, you have been warned!
Who are the real bullies? Isn't it bassa, that decide and impose an idea, and then, their brainless members follow it, without thinking, without judging, just follow blindly and start digging their own grave?
Shouldn't a union first listen to what their members have to say, and then take action, not decide what they want to do and then ask members to follow???
What is this? We are ALL bassa, tags, bassa lanyards etc? Guess what guys? No we are NOT ALL bassa!!!! And yes we do too have "I am backing BA lanyards" but we are not wearing them, because we do not want to provoke... What do you Bullies achieve with your silly bassa lanyards??? Annoying passengers, winding staff up and faced with dismissal?
Why don't you realise that you have destroyed our reputation beyond repair???
The sooner you go on a strike, the sooner you will get sacked...
I know that the post will be deleted and I will be banned, but enough is enough.
Old good strike days...when entering the crc was a great experience, greeted by smiling faces... and now???
sour faced militants, that boast about how successful their strike was!!!! Can you believe it???
And now they cannot even remember what their strike was about...
ok...Imposition... What could ba have done if all talks were fruitless??? Of course they would impose so we can survive...
then New fleet... How many times has BF said that new fleet is a proposal? And it could have easily been removed from the agenda, should we find a suitable solution?
Now staff travel! Well, you have been warned!
Who are the real bullies? Isn't it bassa, that decide and impose an idea, and then, their brainless members follow it, without thinking, without judging, just follow blindly and start digging their own grave?
Shouldn't a union first listen to what their members have to say, and then take action, not decide what they want to do and then ask members to follow???
What is this? We are ALL bassa, tags, bassa lanyards etc? Guess what guys? No we are NOT ALL bassa!!!! And yes we do too have "I am backing BA lanyards" but we are not wearing them, because we do not want to provoke... What do you Bullies achieve with your silly bassa lanyards??? Annoying passengers, winding staff up and faced with dismissal?
Why don't you realise that you have destroyed our reputation beyond repair???
The sooner you go on a strike, the sooner you will get sacked...
I know that the post will be deleted and I will be banned, but enough is enough.
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Yes the atmosphere during the strike was very nice... people who wanted to be there.
But I am sad and really upset at the fact that people are bitter towards one and other, some not speaking to each other, blanking each other etc etc.... and that is normal people that normally we would have got along with.
I find it so sad, when will work get to normal again??
But I am sad and really upset at the fact that people are bitter towards one and other, some not speaking to each other, blanking each other etc etc.... and that is normal people that normally we would have got along with.
I find it so sad, when will work get to normal again??
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I just wish WISH WISH that we could have Mixed Fleet crew flying ALONGSIDE us - like the current temps. They could have Scheme rest INBETWEEN trips but our rest on our trips. Of course reduced crew like we are working to now is fine of course we do need to be more efficient.
Why can't we have an intergrated approach - it would still save money as more new crew come in in the same way... it wouldn't save quite as much but would still save plenty?
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I think it was made pretty clear early on that mixing mixed-fleet and existing contracts on the same aircraft does not work. Mixed fleet is all about efficiency, existing fleets are all about inefficiency. Mixing the two negates the savings. I doubt that has escaped KW.
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SlideBustle wrote:
You have to accept reality of MF, the best you can do is to deal with it. And remember that BA cabin crew are unbelievably lucky to have a job for the foreseeable future as another reality is the unemployment suffered by those who worked for Flyglobespan, Zoom, Oasis, Maxjet, Eos Airlines, SilverJet, Aer Lingus, British Midland and others.
On profitability: BA has almost always struggled to achieve a 10% profit margin. And the market has changed for the worse, here are some examples:
The current cost savings and MF will enable BA to compete and grow the network. The consequences of failing to compete are none to pleasant to contemplate.
I can see what you are saying re: we have time to find a new job, but do you think people are just going to roll over and accept it? Like me who is in my 20s? OK I can train to do something else, but I do enjoy my job. I nor anyone else can be guaranteed any job but this is just blatant taking away the jobs for bonuses and shares! Not because BA desperately need a new fleet to survive (they have survived for years and profited for years with us expensive crew!)
On profitability: BA has almost always struggled to achieve a 10% profit margin. And the market has changed for the worse, here are some examples:
- The UK's biggest people carrier did not exist before 1995.
- Europe's biggest people carrier nearly went under in 1991 and had carried only 2.25m pax by 1995
- LHR has been opened up, allowing DL, CO and AF to operate flights in direct competition with BA across the Atlantic
- Gulf carriers, especially Emirates, Qatar and Etihad, have expanded hugely
The current cost savings and MF will enable BA to compete and grow the network. The consequences of failing to compete are none to pleasant to contemplate.
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I think that what BA really wants, is that THEY will be the ones who run the airline, or at least IFCE, and NOT BASSA...
and if this involves getting rid of some crew (that ask for it with their actions) then so be it...
Simple!
and if this involves getting rid of some crew (that ask for it with their actions) then so be it...
Simple!
Last edited by blue____; 5th Jul 2010 at 17:30. Reason: typo and addition
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Max motor,
Thanks for highlighting that artical which shows what alot of us are like, and not just on strike days!! however during the strike there was a concentration of crew like Julie which was really great.
Biteme,
I am sorry if I offended you with my post but it was not meant to. I just wanted you to see how I felt about BASSA.
Sidebustle,
I really think it is going to take a long time for New Fleet to grow bigger than us. The initial growth comes from people who are waiting for part time and some crew that may move over. The route network has been printed and it is the same one as in the way forward proposal. The union is going to be consulted about other future routes that move over. It is antisipated that it will take 10 years before New Fleet has 40% of crew.
I really think you are worrying too much. Bassa have already made the mess and anything else they do will just make it worse not better.
Thanks for highlighting that artical which shows what alot of us are like, and not just on strike days!! however during the strike there was a concentration of crew like Julie which was really great.
Biteme,
I am sorry if I offended you with my post but it was not meant to. I just wanted you to see how I felt about BASSA.
Sidebustle,
I really think it is going to take a long time for New Fleet to grow bigger than us. The initial growth comes from people who are waiting for part time and some crew that may move over. The route network has been printed and it is the same one as in the way forward proposal. The union is going to be consulted about other future routes that move over. It is antisipated that it will take 10 years before New Fleet has 40% of crew.
I really think you are worrying too much. Bassa have already made the mess and anything else they do will just make it worse not better.
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Nice article indeed... and as Tiramisu said before, all flights during the strike where like VIP flights, crewed by people who work for BA, not BASSA and people who love their job and realise that changes have to be made...
ok...Imposition... What could ba have done if all talks were fruitless??? Of course they would impose so we can survive...
then New fleet... How many times has BF said that new fleet is a proposal? And it could have easily been removed from the agenda, should we find a suitable solution?
Now staff travel! Well, you have been warned!
What is this? We are ALL bassa, tags, bassa lanyards etc? Guess what guys? No we are NOT ALL bassa!!!! And yes we do too have "I am backing BA lanyards" but we are not wearing them, because we do not want to provoke... What do you Bullies achieve with your silly bassa lanyards??? Annoying passengers, winding staff up and faced with dismissal?
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I really think it is going to take a long time for New Fleet to grow bigger than us. The initial growth comes from people who are waiting for part time and some crew that may move over. The route network has been printed and it is the same one as in the way forward proposal. The union is going to be consulted about other future routes that move over.
It is antisipated that it will take 10 years before New Fleet has 40% of crew.