British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Nothing in writing but of course BA would never write anything on a piece of paper which could be held against them. They prefer gentlement agreements which they can break whenever it suits them. They never seem to honour any exisiting agreements. Look at the operations over the past few months. We seem to be operating without any agreements in place.
The last time I looked it was neither BA's concern nor indeed any of their business where you live as a consenting adult. They require that, under normal rostered circumstances, that you be within the vicinity of your work place 2 hours prior to report time.
The company you seem to be denigrating doesn't exist. In the real world agreements are made, broken, discarded and remade as circumstance allows. I have worked in many places before coming to BA and, trust me, BA is a good employer to work for. But like all employers you must pull your weight both with respect to your individual job and your department.
BA do not owe anyone a living. BA do not have to give anyone staff travel, BA does not have to give free parking, free uniforms, discounted meals etc. etc. etc.
What we have now is a generation within BA who have become so used to having everything given to them on a plate and cosseted to the Nth degree that the loss of anything becomes a personal attack.
Many within BA don't realise how nasty the real world can be.
Perhaps soon the BASSA militants who blame everything and everybody for their situation except themselves will find out.
Time will tell.
1. Not being part of a union.
2. Not being able to afford to strike.
3. Not wanting to lose a SIN or HKG. Interesting that many LR flights departed...
4. Not wanting to get the word STRIKE on their file. Craving for a promotion...
5. Not wanting to lose ST. Interesting that we had many commuters at BFC.
6. Not wanting to strike for the very reason that others can do the "dirty" job.
2. Not being able to afford to strike.
3. Not wanting to lose a SIN or HKG. Interesting that many LR flights departed...
4. Not wanting to get the word STRIKE on their file. Craving for a promotion...
5. Not wanting to lose ST. Interesting that we had many commuters at BFC.
6. Not wanting to strike for the very reason that others can do the "dirty" job.
7. Don't believe in the self centred, militant rantings of a Union from a bygone era protecting their own backsides and demanding that everyone else pays for their 1980's style cushy expenses whilst stubbornly denying that anything is foing on nasty outside of Plabet BASSA.
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Not wanting to lose a SIN or HKG. Interesting that many LR flights departed...
Is it too hard for you to fathom that if only 56% of cabin crew voted for strike action that many of the remaining 44% simply don't agree with you? Not scared, not greedy, not ambitious, not skint, they just don't agree with you.
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MissM
Crew crossed the picket line for different reasons. I could think of the most obvious ones:
1. Not being part of a union.
2. Not being able to afford to strike.
3. Not wanting to lose a SIN or HKG. Interesting that many LR flights departed...
4. Not wanting to get the word STRIKE on their file. Craving for a promotion...
5. Not wanting to lose ST. Interesting that we had many commuters at BFC.
6. Not wanting to strike for the very reason that others can do the "dirty" job.
I could think of a combination that some went to work convinced that there would be enough crew going on strike so they didn't need to do it and at the same time keep their ST.
As for LGW, they should have received representation if they needed assistance regarding a personal matter, especially if they are a paying member.
1. Not being part of a union.
2. Not being able to afford to strike.
3. Not wanting to lose a SIN or HKG. Interesting that many LR flights departed...
4. Not wanting to get the word STRIKE on their file. Craving for a promotion...
5. Not wanting to lose ST. Interesting that we had many commuters at BFC.
6. Not wanting to strike for the very reason that others can do the "dirty" job.
I could think of a combination that some went to work convinced that there would be enough crew going on strike so they didn't need to do it and at the same time keep their ST.
As for LGW, they should have received representation if they needed assistance regarding a personal matter, especially if they are a paying member.
8. Wish to Back BA and respect the customers who pay their wages.
9. Believe that BASSA have not acted in their interests by at least stating the company offer (s).
10. Sick and tired of the moaning whinging minorities who make their working life a misery.
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All quotes posted by Miss M
Crew crossed the picket line for different reasons. I could think of the most obvious ones:
Crew crossed the picket line for different reasons. I could think of the most obvious ones:
1. Not being part of a union.
2. Not being able to afford to strike.
3. Not wanting to lose a SIN or HKG. Interesting that many LR flights departed...
4. Not wanting to get the word STRIKE on their file. Craving for a promotion...
5. Not wanting to lose ST. Interesting that we had many commuters at BFC.
6. Not wanting to strike for the very reason that others can do the "dirty" job.
Many of us also believe the strike is unjustified and morally wrong, Miss M.
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Miss M,
Final question please as you've refused to answer this previously.
There are no lifelines left...
You can't ask the audience because you know what they think......the public hate us.
You can't phone a friend as many of them came to work and you know what they think.
There isn't an option for 50:50.
Please tell me honestly, what has going on strike achieved for you and what will future strikes achieve?
Final question please as you've refused to answer this previously.
There are no lifelines left...
You can't ask the audience because you know what they think......the public hate us.
You can't phone a friend as many of them came to work and you know what they think.
There isn't an option for 50:50.
Please tell me honestly, what has going on strike achieved for you and what will future strikes achieve?
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It would seem that I am not the only one wondering over the lunacy of minority/majority 'automatic yes' votes!
Make it harder to strike, say bosses | Mail Online
How surprising that they use pictures of a useless, ill informed, non event strike as the picture.
Take IA over the management have the audacity, the sheer audacity to decide how many crew are required on an aircraft. I mean, come on, how could they even dream up such radical changes without the safe, steering guidance of Auntie BASSA?
BASSA, who were so certain that crewing levels were contractual, until the Judiciary told them otherwise. BASSA who were so certain that action by them would 'ground the airline', only it didn't. BASSA who were so certain that they would get ST back 'in days' only they didn't. BASSA who have run out of ideas in a strike they should never have called but they don't know how to do anything else. But Auntie BASSA tells us that we will all be smiling and she'll buy the ice cream when that nasty man Willie Walsh goes and the nice man Kieth Williams takes over because he's a nice money man....... who knows exactly what savings are required...... and what the cost savings will be ........ when the CC are rationalised into modern practices........... and who fully endorses the current non compromising action ........ oh .......?
Unite are going to be fighting wars on all fronts from tomorrow as the public sector, who have been largely cushioned from the recession as the private sector took the hits, gets the result of 13 years of extravagent Labour over spending.
Will they care about CC whose jobs aren't threatened? Who have a jolly nice Pimm's up on the picket line? Who are pictured drinking beer next to their M3 convertibles? Oooops.
If you haven't got anything by tomorrows emergency budget then I suggest you leave BASSA and save the money. You are going to need it!
Make it harder to strike, say bosses | Mail Online
How surprising that they use pictures of a useless, ill informed, non event strike as the picture.
Take IA over the management have the audacity, the sheer audacity to decide how many crew are required on an aircraft. I mean, come on, how could they even dream up such radical changes without the safe, steering guidance of Auntie BASSA?
BASSA, who were so certain that crewing levels were contractual, until the Judiciary told them otherwise. BASSA who were so certain that action by them would 'ground the airline', only it didn't. BASSA who were so certain that they would get ST back 'in days' only they didn't. BASSA who have run out of ideas in a strike they should never have called but they don't know how to do anything else. But Auntie BASSA tells us that we will all be smiling and she'll buy the ice cream when that nasty man Willie Walsh goes and the nice man Kieth Williams takes over because he's a nice money man....... who knows exactly what savings are required...... and what the cost savings will be ........ when the CC are rationalised into modern practices........... and who fully endorses the current non compromising action ........ oh .......?
Unite are going to be fighting wars on all fronts from tomorrow as the public sector, who have been largely cushioned from the recession as the private sector took the hits, gets the result of 13 years of extravagent Labour over spending.
Will they care about CC whose jobs aren't threatened? Who have a jolly nice Pimm's up on the picket line? Who are pictured drinking beer next to their M3 convertibles? Oooops.
If you haven't got anything by tomorrows emergency budget then I suggest you leave BASSA and save the money. You are going to need it!
Last edited by Wirbelsturm; 21st Jun 2010 at 17:53.
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Miss M
I know you blame the ones that saw sense and went to work to do nothing more than the job they are paid to do. I myself blame the bassa leadership for not doing the job that they are paid to do. Rather than looking for the real views of the members at the meeting at sandown last year they manipulated the ones that were present into a unanimous vote for no negotiation with BA. No view was sought from the three quarters or more of the membership that were not present or any opportunity given to voice any opinion other than the pre determined one.
What do you think would have happened to any member that put their hand up and said they would like to see more negotiation? The next ballot, if there is one, will give a clearer indication of where the feeling truly is. Will you join me in encouraging people to make their own minds up on the issues?
I know you blame the ones that saw sense and went to work to do nothing more than the job they are paid to do. I myself blame the bassa leadership for not doing the job that they are paid to do. Rather than looking for the real views of the members at the meeting at sandown last year they manipulated the ones that were present into a unanimous vote for no negotiation with BA. No view was sought from the three quarters or more of the membership that were not present or any opportunity given to voice any opinion other than the pre determined one.
What do you think would have happened to any member that put their hand up and said they would like to see more negotiation? The next ballot, if there is one, will give a clearer indication of where the feeling truly is. Will you join me in encouraging people to make their own minds up on the issues?
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Wirbelsturm
Nothing in writing but of course BA would never write anything on a piece of paper which could be held against them. They prefer gentlement agreements which they can break whenever it suits them. They never seem to honour any exisiting agreements. Look at the operations over the past few months. We seem to be operating without any agreements in place.
Nothing in writing but of course BA would never write anything on a piece of paper which could be held against them. They prefer gentlement agreements which they can break whenever it suits them. They never seem to honour any exisiting agreements. Look at the operations over the past few months. We seem to be operating without any agreements in place.
Wow, what a disaster that must have been for those involved.
Well no, it wasn't. For all involved the atmosphere was positive, can-do, and highly satisfying knowing that the best that Bassa could offer was being thwarted by a great team, working together to get passengers to destinations without the malevolent influence of the Bassamentalists.
That's how we will work in the future. With you (if you adapt to the new order) or without you.
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90 minutes from base
People are made aware of the need to be able to get to their base within 90 minutes even before they join BA. Here is an advert for CC: it's a couple of years old, but I can't imagine that it would be different today.
Ref UKLGW95
Region UK - Gatwick
Location London - Gatwick
Category Customer Contact
Job Description
Closing: 10th March 2008
Air Cabin Crew - Gatwick Fleet LGW
Interacting with a wide variety of people from a broad range of cultures forms a major part of the Cabin Crew role. Cabin Crew must be able to relate to others and show a passion for delivering excellent customer service. There is a need to balance confidence and professionalism with a friendly approachable manner. Anticipating and exceeding customer expectations is essential.
Requirements
* The right to live and work within the UK with no restrictions.
* Holder of a valid European Union passport allowing unrestricted world-wide travel or a passport issued by one of the following accession states: - Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Slovenia, Cyprus, Malta.
* Aged between 18 and 62 at time of application.
* Experience of front line face to face customer contact in a busy and challenging environment.
* Demonstrate respect, attention and professionalism to customers.
* Fluent in English, both written and spoken.
* Educated to GCSE or equivalent standard in Maths and English.
* Willing and able to apply for a criminal record check.
* Able to provide the names and addresses of references covering 5 years continuous work and academic history.
* A high standard of physical fitness.
* To be a minimum of 5ft 2in (1.585m) and 6ft 2in (1.88m) in height, with weight in proportion, such that the ability to perform all job functions is not hindered.
* The ability to, whilst facing forward, walk and fit comfortably down the aisle, fit quickly through the overwing window exit, and to fit into a jump seat harness without modification including closure without a seatbelt extension.
* Able to successfully pass a comprehensive medical questionnaire.
* Live within 90 minutes of the airport from which you are based.
You as a person
Representing British Airways as a member of our Cabin Crew is a unique experience. Our customers have their own unique needs and requirements. You?ll find every day holds a different challenge - from the moment you welcome our customers aboard the aircraft, their safety and comfort are your responsibility.
Your role includes all aspects of customer care from communication to serving refreshments. You will hold the key to our customers having a fantastic flight and, most importantly, wanting to fly with us again.
* Friendly and caring personality.
* Competent in handling difficult situations.
* Confident communicator and great listener.
* Supportive of colleagues and a team player.
* Able to remain calm and efficient under pressure.
* Willing to treat everyone as an individual.
* Satisfy current BA/CAA health requirements.
* Takes pride in personal grooming with no visible tattoos or piercings and willing to conform to uniform standards.
* Able to swim well with confidence.
* Be prepared to work unsociable hours any day of the year, at any time, including weekends and public holidays.
* Able to work to tight time constraints.
* Successfully complete initial training and recurrent training programmes
Benefits
Full time basic starting salary £10,815.00 per annum.
Flying allowances variable and can vary each month depending on trip allocation. Typical new entrant cabin crew member can expect to earn in the region of £500 per month additional flying allowances.
Holiday entitlement is 28 days (including public holidays pro- rated in first year). As the flying operation is 365 days a year, Cabin Crew must be able to fly on public holidays and religious festivals.
Hotel accommodation whilst on flying duty.
Free Uniform, worn in accordance with uniform regulations.
Your remuneration package will be determined by your individual contract of employment. Whilst this varies from business to business, typical benefits include:
* Profit share scheme*
* Bonus*
* Employee share scheme*
* Car park, subsided catering, sports and social facilities.
* Choice of contributory pension and private healthcare schemes
* Opportunities for reduced air fare travel and travel discounts*
Region UK - Gatwick
Location London - Gatwick
Category Customer Contact
Job Description
Closing: 10th March 2008
Air Cabin Crew - Gatwick Fleet LGW
Interacting with a wide variety of people from a broad range of cultures forms a major part of the Cabin Crew role. Cabin Crew must be able to relate to others and show a passion for delivering excellent customer service. There is a need to balance confidence and professionalism with a friendly approachable manner. Anticipating and exceeding customer expectations is essential.
Requirements
* The right to live and work within the UK with no restrictions.
* Holder of a valid European Union passport allowing unrestricted world-wide travel or a passport issued by one of the following accession states: - Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Slovenia, Cyprus, Malta.
* Aged between 18 and 62 at time of application.
* Experience of front line face to face customer contact in a busy and challenging environment.
* Demonstrate respect, attention and professionalism to customers.
* Fluent in English, both written and spoken.
* Educated to GCSE or equivalent standard in Maths and English.
* Willing and able to apply for a criminal record check.
* Able to provide the names and addresses of references covering 5 years continuous work and academic history.
* A high standard of physical fitness.
* To be a minimum of 5ft 2in (1.585m) and 6ft 2in (1.88m) in height, with weight in proportion, such that the ability to perform all job functions is not hindered.
* The ability to, whilst facing forward, walk and fit comfortably down the aisle, fit quickly through the overwing window exit, and to fit into a jump seat harness without modification including closure without a seatbelt extension.
* Able to successfully pass a comprehensive medical questionnaire.
* Live within 90 minutes of the airport from which you are based.
You as a person
Representing British Airways as a member of our Cabin Crew is a unique experience. Our customers have their own unique needs and requirements. You?ll find every day holds a different challenge - from the moment you welcome our customers aboard the aircraft, their safety and comfort are your responsibility.
Your role includes all aspects of customer care from communication to serving refreshments. You will hold the key to our customers having a fantastic flight and, most importantly, wanting to fly with us again.
* Friendly and caring personality.
* Competent in handling difficult situations.
* Confident communicator and great listener.
* Supportive of colleagues and a team player.
* Able to remain calm and efficient under pressure.
* Willing to treat everyone as an individual.
* Satisfy current BA/CAA health requirements.
* Takes pride in personal grooming with no visible tattoos or piercings and willing to conform to uniform standards.
* Able to swim well with confidence.
* Be prepared to work unsociable hours any day of the year, at any time, including weekends and public holidays.
* Able to work to tight time constraints.
* Successfully complete initial training and recurrent training programmes
Benefits
Full time basic starting salary £10,815.00 per annum.
Flying allowances variable and can vary each month depending on trip allocation. Typical new entrant cabin crew member can expect to earn in the region of £500 per month additional flying allowances.
Holiday entitlement is 28 days (including public holidays pro- rated in first year). As the flying operation is 365 days a year, Cabin Crew must be able to fly on public holidays and religious festivals.
Hotel accommodation whilst on flying duty.
Free Uniform, worn in accordance with uniform regulations.
Your remuneration package will be determined by your individual contract of employment. Whilst this varies from business to business, typical benefits include:
* Profit share scheme*
* Bonus*
* Employee share scheme*
* Car park, subsided catering, sports and social facilities.
* Choice of contributory pension and private healthcare schemes
* Opportunities for reduced air fare travel and travel discounts*
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Miss M.
I would be very interested to understand what you think would have happened when CC went on strike,had no one had volunteered to take striking CC's place. Do you and others think that you would be on the same TC's now.
Rgds
BF
I would be very interested to understand what you think would have happened when CC went on strike,had no one had volunteered to take striking CC's place. Do you and others think that you would be on the same TC's now.
Rgds
BF
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3cessnapete
We could argue over this for a lifetime.
I believe a full WW schedule when I see it. That they are looking for VCC in the US is nothing but a sign of desperation and they are having trouble finding enough of VCC in the UK. I don't even want to know how much this is costing BA. They should have settled with our previous proposal and none of this would have happened.
It is not OUR fault that the public is against us. Blame WW and his so called management.
Chuchinchow
Why? I said to you earlier that unless you remove your patronising attitude I don't want to debate with you. You said in a PM that you couldn't care less. What's the problem?
skylight
Crew have been told different things then. I know of several "language speakers" who were recruited and told that they could use ST to get to LON.
Wirbelsturm
I think you will see that most crew are taking their responsibility in getting to and from work. Commuting crew are spending a huge amount of time and money to enjoy their lifestyle. But, some crew were recruited to the company and told that they could use ST. Some will argue otherwise. This is a discussion which could go on and on forever.
If BA is a good employer is debatable. At least it used to be until WW took over. He has done nothing good to the company. We are becoming a laughing stock with a falling service and brand.
Timothy Claypole
No, it's not difficult for me to fathom that everyone doesn't agree with me. Everyone crossed the picket line for whatever reason. But, I still think that every member should follow what the majority vote for. If a union calls for a strike, every member strikes.
Facts remain that every ballot has had a strong turnout so there is definitely some disagreement amongst the cabin crew.
Tiramisu
You are paying your mortage with money which BASSA have negotiated for you. It says BA on your payslip but the amount of it is because of BASSA.
I can't afford not to strike. Sure it's a dirty job. I have lost £1400 in basic pay plus trip allowances. I don't know exact numbers but I have probably lost somewhere around £2500 in total. Why am I striking? Because I believe in it. It's always a last resort but dealing with a management which is not interested in serious negotiations is not easy and brought us to where we are today. Our strike has not achieved anything yet which is the fault of all those crew who reported for duty and all VCC who have been trained to do our job. If they hadn't, we wouldn't have been here today. I can only hope that any future strikes will bring back both sides to serious negotiations and a reached settlement.
beesflyer
If nobody has crossed the picket line or volunteered to become cabin crew, BA would have been grounded and WW had been forced back to the table for some serious negotiations. I don't doubt we would have reached a good deal.
We could argue over this for a lifetime.
I believe a full WW schedule when I see it. That they are looking for VCC in the US is nothing but a sign of desperation and they are having trouble finding enough of VCC in the UK. I don't even want to know how much this is costing BA. They should have settled with our previous proposal and none of this would have happened.
It is not OUR fault that the public is against us. Blame WW and his so called management.
Chuchinchow
Why? I said to you earlier that unless you remove your patronising attitude I don't want to debate with you. You said in a PM that you couldn't care less. What's the problem?
skylight
Crew have been told different things then. I know of several "language speakers" who were recruited and told that they could use ST to get to LON.
Wirbelsturm
I think you will see that most crew are taking their responsibility in getting to and from work. Commuting crew are spending a huge amount of time and money to enjoy their lifestyle. But, some crew were recruited to the company and told that they could use ST. Some will argue otherwise. This is a discussion which could go on and on forever.
If BA is a good employer is debatable. At least it used to be until WW took over. He has done nothing good to the company. We are becoming a laughing stock with a falling service and brand.
Timothy Claypole
No, it's not difficult for me to fathom that everyone doesn't agree with me. Everyone crossed the picket line for whatever reason. But, I still think that every member should follow what the majority vote for. If a union calls for a strike, every member strikes.
Facts remain that every ballot has had a strong turnout so there is definitely some disagreement amongst the cabin crew.
Tiramisu
You are paying your mortage with money which BASSA have negotiated for you. It says BA on your payslip but the amount of it is because of BASSA.
I can't afford not to strike. Sure it's a dirty job. I have lost £1400 in basic pay plus trip allowances. I don't know exact numbers but I have probably lost somewhere around £2500 in total. Why am I striking? Because I believe in it. It's always a last resort but dealing with a management which is not interested in serious negotiations is not easy and brought us to where we are today. Our strike has not achieved anything yet which is the fault of all those crew who reported for duty and all VCC who have been trained to do our job. If they hadn't, we wouldn't have been here today. I can only hope that any future strikes will bring back both sides to serious negotiations and a reached settlement.
beesflyer
If nobody has crossed the picket line or volunteered to become cabin crew, BA would have been grounded and WW had been forced back to the table for some serious negotiations. I don't doubt we would have reached a good deal.
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MissM wrote:
So, BA's offer last year was so bad that you had to go on strike. Was it the same offer which someone said that she "would have happily accepted it as it meant that future crew would work on existing WW and EF fleets".
Hint: that person was you.
If nobody has crossed the picket line or volunteered to become cabin crew, BA would have been grounded and WW had been forced back to the table for some serious negotiations. I don't doubt we would have reached a good deal.
Hint: that person was you.
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If BA is a good employer is debatable. At least it used to be until WW took over. He has done nothing good to the company. We are becoming a laughing stock with a falling service and brand.
BASSA and its advocates take everything to heart and act emotionally. Willie Walsh was also CEO when BA made its greatest ever profit. Willie Walsh is not interested in Jane Bloggs from IFcE personally. He doesn't know, personally, the names of all BA's employees. That is the line managers job. From them to the department manager to the head of department to the CEO to the board. Welcome to business.
Willie Walsh has a mandate to ensure that the company survives, is profitable into the future, provides investors with a safe investment vehicle and is competitive. He will delegate the responsibility of deciding what changes are viable to his senior management team, in the case of IFcE Bill Francis. In this case the prior history of the intransigence of BASSA has led BA management, finally, to decide to grasp the nettle and address the problem head on.
As far as BASSA are concerned that makes Willie Walsh the henchman. However BASSA have been a thorn in BA's side through their militant stance for the past 15 years. Hardly a year has gone by without threats of strike action from BASSA because they don't like something. The benefits taken into the future far outweigh the short term costs now.
This is no longer about £10 million here or there, this is about BASSA disobeying Unite, as they felt they were sold down the river by Tony Woodley last time, and desperately trying to cling to the power they felt they held over the past 15 years.
Far from being a bully, Willie Walsh, through his management team is finally standing up to the playground bully that is known as BASSA.
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Miss M
Miss M,
Whilst I applaud your tenacity, you may want to consider a thought:
When you fly in the face of adversity, in this case adversity means 40,000 other BA workers, other Unite members, your senior management, your board, your shareholders and the majority of the general public, so in total maybe 40 million people, it may be prudent to consider that maybe you've got this wrong...
"he/she who hold their head high in the face of adversity are likely to get it shot off"
Whilst I applaud your tenacity, you may want to consider a thought:
When you fly in the face of adversity, in this case adversity means 40,000 other BA workers, other Unite members, your senior management, your board, your shareholders and the majority of the general public, so in total maybe 40 million people, it may be prudent to consider that maybe you've got this wrong...
"he/she who hold their head high in the face of adversity are likely to get it shot off"
Last edited by harrypic; 21st Jun 2010 at 20:35.
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Miss M
Simply repeating BASSA soundbites neither makes them facts, nor any more convincing. They remain simply that: BASSA soundbites. Carry on repeating them, if it makes you feel better.
In the meantime, here are some more FACTS to dispute your BASSA soundbites.
Base closures were handled, as stated earlier, by 2 years of DUTY TRAVEL. Foreign recruits were given exactly the same staff travel perks as every other BA employee - to use as they feel fit. But hey, carry on "insisting" you are right. Your insistence, which never has any shred of evidence alongside it, does not make it right or fact.
You also claim that the rest of us "enjoy" the achievements of BASSA. Wrong again. In the last 20 years or so, all the key agreements - long range agreement, midfleet, BEP 97, CSD talks, have all been negotiated by CC89/AMICUS. BASSA have either been on strike over them or refused to sign the relevant documents, even though they operate on them.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to continue this "debate" when one side of it merely insists on repeating, parrot fashion, infathomable, unjustified statements.
Miss M..... Malone, I presume? Could that explain why you're so concerned about the Professional Cabin Crew Council? www.mypccc.co.uk
Simply repeating BASSA soundbites neither makes them facts, nor any more convincing. They remain simply that: BASSA soundbites. Carry on repeating them, if it makes you feel better.
In the meantime, here are some more FACTS to dispute your BASSA soundbites.
Base closures were handled, as stated earlier, by 2 years of DUTY TRAVEL. Foreign recruits were given exactly the same staff travel perks as every other BA employee - to use as they feel fit. But hey, carry on "insisting" you are right. Your insistence, which never has any shred of evidence alongside it, does not make it right or fact.
You also claim that the rest of us "enjoy" the achievements of BASSA. Wrong again. In the last 20 years or so, all the key agreements - long range agreement, midfleet, BEP 97, CSD talks, have all been negotiated by CC89/AMICUS. BASSA have either been on strike over them or refused to sign the relevant documents, even though they operate on them.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to continue this "debate" when one side of it merely insists on repeating, parrot fashion, infathomable, unjustified statements.
Miss M..... Malone, I presume? Could that explain why you're so concerned about the Professional Cabin Crew Council? www.mypccc.co.uk
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MissM
I believe a full WW schedule when I see it.
That they are looking for VCC in the US is nothing but a sign of desperation and they are having trouble finding enough of VCC in the UK.
They should have settled with our previous proposal and none of this would have happened.
It is not OUR fault that the public is against us. Blame WW and his so called management.
Was it "WW and his so called management" who broke the confidentiality of negotiations by tweeting?
Have you actually asked any members of the public why they were against you?
I know of several "language speakers" who were recruited and told that they could use ST to get to LON.
If BA is a good employer is debatable. At least it used to be until WW took over. He has done nothing good to the company.
The fact that he was appointed as CEO of BA-IB suggests he's well-regarded by the board of at least one other airline.
It's always a last resort but dealing with a management which is not interested in serious negotiations is not easy and brought us to where we are today.
The following's from the judge's ruling in the February court case.
"BASSA had a heated argument with Amicus and refused to cooperate together"
"I heard evidence as to the course of events at ACAS and the following emerged. The BASSA and Amicus factions were separately represented and sat in separate rooms. Despite the efforts of ACAS they could not be persuaded to join forces for a meeting with BA. The latter raised the possibility of separate agreements with the respective factions but, understandably, that did not appeal. In the overall result there was no meeting between the Union and BA."
Last edited by DeThirdDefect; 21st Jun 2010 at 20:52. Reason: couple of typos
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MissM:
Problem? I have no problem. Patronising? Where and when? All our postings are available for anyone to read.
I have a job I love, a salary and allowances that satisfy my material needs, reasonable pension expectations, and (for the most part) very congenial company while I am at work.
I am not going to jeopardise all that by consorting with a morally bankrupt trade union that appears to function solely to protect and to advance the personal interests of the very "representatives" who are entrusted with the professional affairs of the rank and file membership. I expect and demand that my CSD gets off his/her rear end and help with serving the passengers.
You are "playing the person, and not the ball", MissM, and that is a direct contravention of PPRuNe rules. You are doing that not only with me (who can and will respond) but also with Willie Walsh and every other member of the BA leadership team. And don't suggest that WW responds here; he will and does talk to your elected representatives - when they show up.
If you don't like what I contribute to this thread you are under absolutely no obligation to respond. But you have - again.
Chuchinchow
Why? I said to you earlier that unless you remove your patronising attitude I don't want to debate with you. You said in a PM that you couldn't care less. What's the problem?
Why? I said to you earlier that unless you remove your patronising attitude I don't want to debate with you. You said in a PM that you couldn't care less. What's the problem?
I have a job I love, a salary and allowances that satisfy my material needs, reasonable pension expectations, and (for the most part) very congenial company while I am at work.
I am not going to jeopardise all that by consorting with a morally bankrupt trade union that appears to function solely to protect and to advance the personal interests of the very "representatives" who are entrusted with the professional affairs of the rank and file membership. I expect and demand that my CSD gets off his/her rear end and help with serving the passengers.
You are "playing the person, and not the ball", MissM, and that is a direct contravention of PPRuNe rules. You are doing that not only with me (who can and will respond) but also with Willie Walsh and every other member of the BA leadership team. And don't suggest that WW responds here; he will and does talk to your elected representatives - when they show up.
If you don't like what I contribute to this thread you are under absolutely no obligation to respond. But you have - again.
Last edited by Chuchinchow; 21st Jun 2010 at 21:08.
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Wirbelsturm
Of course they should take it personally when WW is after their union. If we are to believe BA, he has never met any of the BASSA reps. He probably already has his opinion of BASSA. That is personal.
BA has a fund which will help them. They will not go bankrupt. This has never been about fighting for our survival. It was one of his many, unsuccessful, attempts to send a message to IFCE. He has done nothing but damage to this company yet he's cashing out a huge salary every year.
It's obvious it is no longer about £10 million. This has always been about breaking our union, once and for all, at any cost. It has NEVER been about reaching an agreement with us. We could have sold our souls and they never would have accepted it. Take the new trick for instance. How much will it cost to bring in the VCC from the US?
harrypic
A majority means nothing. A majority can be wrong.
HiFlyer14
Sorry to disappoint you but I am not the one you are insinuating.
DeThirdDefect
BA will never be able to run a full schedule. But, I believe it when I see it. In such case I want proof that they are fully crewed with passengers and not just cargo or even worse, empty.
Maybe there haven't been any fresh calls after VCC because they know it won't help. Maybe the interest previously was so low that they are going abroad. Who knows?
We could have accepted any of the proposals put forward by the company if they had been waterprooved, which they obviously have not been. BASSA are making sure that any proposal includes that we will be fully protected but BA are not wanting this. BA pushed us to take industrial action. We did not. Nobody wants to strike and we are not striking for the sake of it. We are striking because we feel we have reached a dead end and we are not getting anywhere with BA.
WW may be well-regarded by the board but it does not mean that he is well-regarded by the workforce. IB crew have conducted a poll and 80% of them have said that they will go on strike if WW takes over. They don't want him. As I said earlier today, I will buy a ticket to MAD and join them at the picket lines.
BASSA were, as I have said a couple of times, in the beginning not interested in negotiations. That Amicus and BASSA could not sit in the same room was unfortunate. Ridicilous to say the least.
Chuchinchow
Good for you.
Of course they should take it personally when WW is after their union. If we are to believe BA, he has never met any of the BASSA reps. He probably already has his opinion of BASSA. That is personal.
BA has a fund which will help them. They will not go bankrupt. This has never been about fighting for our survival. It was one of his many, unsuccessful, attempts to send a message to IFCE. He has done nothing but damage to this company yet he's cashing out a huge salary every year.
It's obvious it is no longer about £10 million. This has always been about breaking our union, once and for all, at any cost. It has NEVER been about reaching an agreement with us. We could have sold our souls and they never would have accepted it. Take the new trick for instance. How much will it cost to bring in the VCC from the US?
harrypic
A majority means nothing. A majority can be wrong.
HiFlyer14
Sorry to disappoint you but I am not the one you are insinuating.
DeThirdDefect
BA will never be able to run a full schedule. But, I believe it when I see it. In such case I want proof that they are fully crewed with passengers and not just cargo or even worse, empty.
Maybe there haven't been any fresh calls after VCC because they know it won't help. Maybe the interest previously was so low that they are going abroad. Who knows?
We could have accepted any of the proposals put forward by the company if they had been waterprooved, which they obviously have not been. BASSA are making sure that any proposal includes that we will be fully protected but BA are not wanting this. BA pushed us to take industrial action. We did not. Nobody wants to strike and we are not striking for the sake of it. We are striking because we feel we have reached a dead end and we are not getting anywhere with BA.
WW may be well-regarded by the board but it does not mean that he is well-regarded by the workforce. IB crew have conducted a poll and 80% of them have said that they will go on strike if WW takes over. They don't want him. As I said earlier today, I will buy a ticket to MAD and join them at the picket lines.
BASSA were, as I have said a couple of times, in the beginning not interested in negotiations. That Amicus and BASSA could not sit in the same room was unfortunate. Ridicilous to say the least.
Chuchinchow
Good for you.
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Miss M...
It is not OUR fault that the public is against us
I just hope that the public are purely against the 3,000 or so BASSAmentalists, and not the BA CC in general, who (in their majority) are backing BA by working through the strikes, resigning from BASSA, and generally NOT turning up at BFC.