British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Meanwhile we've got main crew at Heathrow who are 45, have been flying for 20+ years but have chosen not to go for Purser.
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Yet the latter cannot go for the CSM role.
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Yet the latter cannot go for the CSM role.
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But how long will motivated crew stay for on that money?!
BA currently have many thousands of "career" cc who, under current T&Cs just cost too much.
So, you lose your motivation and move on, to be replaced by a younger, more motivated person.
It isn't rocket science.
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Meanwhile we've got main crew at Heathrow who are 45, have been flying for 20+ years but have chosen not to go for Purser.
There used to be a similar situation with pilots in BA, whereby it was not in senior first officers' interests to take a command - it was effectively a massive pay cut. Instead, they stayed on long haul, picking up all the plum "money trips", and in a lot of cases, not being very good pilots.
A system that encourages this sort of behaviour is wrong. I welcome this new development, much as I welcomed the change in pay scales with pilots, that encouraged them to take a command. What pilot, after all, does not want to be a captain one day? And what CC member does not want to be a purser one day? If they don't, then they're in the wrong job.
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If you take a moment to read your ESS you will see exactly how excited, the oily Bill Francis is over its launch.
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Can Duncan Holley, legally, remain an active member of BASSA as he is no longer employed by BA or does he now have a 'management' role within Unite?
If so, I see great things for his level of literacy considering Len McKlunky seems to have made it to the top!
If so, I see great things for his level of literacy considering Len McKlunky seems to have made it to the top!
Len McKlunky
Wee Willy
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BASSA's Cunning Plan
Unite wish to ballot everyone bar non-strikinG LGW crew. This tactic is being done to force BA to apply for an injunction. By doing that, BA will extend the 'era of uncertainty' and forward bookings will remain low. BASSA will therefore succeed in their continued campaign of trying to force BA to return ST to striking BASSA members.
That is BASSA's 'cunning plan'.
But, I foresee BA legal seeing straight through that and would therefore expect for BA to allow the strike to start, then apply for an injunction and on top of that, they would force through their final 'play'. To sack any crew who fail to report on the basis of their obviously illegal ballot.
Game over Baldrick.
That is BASSA's 'cunning plan'.
But, I foresee BA legal seeing straight through that and would therefore expect for BA to allow the strike to start, then apply for an injunction and on top of that, they would force through their final 'play'. To sack any crew who fail to report on the basis of their obviously illegal ballot.
Game over Baldrick.
Last edited by Right Engine; 25th Jun 2010 at 13:13.
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BA's offer
This looks like the crucial bit as far as BASSA/Unite are concerned. Crucial as in 'cross or crux'. And what becomes of those who do not accept? Has the Union commented?
British Airways has made a new offer to Unite today in a fresh attempt to end the current dispute.
The offer includes two changes that are intended to address cabin crew concerns about their future earnings:
The new top-up payment means all crew will receive a guaranteed minimum amount of variable pay, irrespective of the routes they fly.
Crew who are not members of Unite are being invited to accept the offer on an individual basis. Members of Unite who want to accept the offer are being urged to express their views to the union.
Bill Francis, British Airways’ head of cabin crew, said: “We have changed our offer in line with feedback we have received from crew and we genuinely believe that it can end this dispute – which is what the vast majority of crew and our customers want.”
The new proposal continues to provide existing crew with assurances about their future. These include:
British Airways has made a new offer to Unite today in a fresh attempt to end the current dispute.
The offer includes two changes that are intended to address cabin crew concerns about their future earnings:
- a new top-up payment is being offered to guarantee that existing crew will not lose out on route allowances when newly-recruited crew begin flying in the autumn;
- a proposal to increase staffing levels on some flights, funded by a reduction in crew allowances, has been withdrawn.
The new top-up payment means all crew will receive a guaranteed minimum amount of variable pay, irrespective of the routes they fly.
Crew who are not members of Unite are being invited to accept the offer on an individual basis. Members of Unite who want to accept the offer are being urged to express their views to the union.
Bill Francis, British Airways’ head of cabin crew, said: “We have changed our offer in line with feedback we have received from crew and we genuinely believe that it can end this dispute – which is what the vast majority of crew and our customers want.”
The new proposal continues to provide existing crew with assurances about their future. These include:
- A firm commitment that crew can keep their current pay and conditions
- An assurance that promotions and part time contracts within their current fleet will be on existing terms and conditions
- An assurance that Heathrow crew can transfer between Worldwide and Euro Fleet on current terms and conditions
- A fair share of routes and access to new aircraft across all fleets
- A commitment to look for opportunities for growth at Gatwick.
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ANOTHER great offer, but no better than anything we've had in the past.
I fear that, as BA continues to make these offers which are - if you look deeply enough - not as good as anything that's been offered in the past (but who can blame them for that?), the union will view these offers as victories. They'll claim that the new offers are being made because of increased union pressure and further threats of strike action.
But in reality, as briefly touched upon above, if none of the strikes had taken place and had we properly considered previous offers, we'd all be in a much better position than we will be if any of these new offers are accepted.
ADDITIONALLY, there appears to be (unless I've missed it) no mention of the return of staff travel. Nor any mention of the disciplinaries.
Will this good offer ALSO be turned down because BA is refusing to cave on these two issues?
I fear that, as BA continues to make these offers which are - if you look deeply enough - not as good as anything that's been offered in the past (but who can blame them for that?), the union will view these offers as victories. They'll claim that the new offers are being made because of increased union pressure and further threats of strike action.
But in reality, as briefly touched upon above, if none of the strikes had taken place and had we properly considered previous offers, we'd all be in a much better position than we will be if any of these new offers are accepted.
ADDITIONALLY, there appears to be (unless I've missed it) no mention of the return of staff travel. Nor any mention of the disciplinaries.
Will this good offer ALSO be turned down because BA is refusing to cave on these two issues?
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Will this good offer ALSO be turned down because BA is refusing to cave on these two
On the face of it, it looks like a better option than Mixed Fleet for current main crew. Or for striking.
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Crew who are not members of Unite are being invited to accept the offer on an individual basis.
This is interesting... I wonder what this means exactly, how it will be implemented, etc.
(The views above are my own, not those of my employer)
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And whilst we are talking about CSMs/FTC!
I have to say I agree with Eddy!
This CSM and Future Talent is a kick in the teeth to many Main Crew. Many have been waiting for over 10 years for the chance (if they are on Worldwide - Eurofleet Main Crew have had more oppurtunities!) and now like Ottergirl says - any MC who have done over 6 years are excluded from CSM. As even if they have management experience, they would probably have not had it in the last 6 years. Also many Main Crew probably have not had management experience - or a year at all.
Future Talent is not really an option for most Main Crew because it would mean a rather large salary drop. £11,000 - £12,000 plus £2.40 (was it £2.60 I heard somewhere??) for a year whilst on the programme - and there is no guarantee of CSM at the end - wouldn't be SO bad if you could get back to Eurofleet/Worldwide at the end of it! Is it an offer to try and get as many hopefuly Main Crew over?
BA have made a mistake with this. CSM is essentially a CSD/PSR role. OK so there will be some management on the ground and some training - but we recruit Line Trainers who haven't had any training experience. CSD/PSRs with no management experience. What do they get? A training course.
I know BA are saying there will be promotions on current fleets - but especially on Worldwide they have been limited for years and with less PSR positions, and a gradually shrinking fleet - how many promotion campaigns will there be.
I know this may seem trivial to lots of other workers. But many (most!) loyal BA crew are NOT dead wood like some suggest. I appreciate that is probably why you can't just transfer to MFH based on seniority like other fleets but to say the restrictive requirements for CSM are to sort out the dead wood will be offensive to the many BA crew who are passionate. Promotion is NOT a god given right, granted, but I do think for many of us dedicated and want more responsibility promotion is not an unreasonable thing to expect in the future!
Anyway this is my opinions.... I backed BA and do believe strikes are not going to/haven't achieved anything. But I don't believe this latest offer is very good either. And not just because of the above reasons! I am suspicious of our protections on Current Fleets now.
This CSM and Future Talent is a kick in the teeth to many Main Crew. Many have been waiting for over 10 years for the chance (if they are on Worldwide - Eurofleet Main Crew have had more oppurtunities!) and now like Ottergirl says - any MC who have done over 6 years are excluded from CSM. As even if they have management experience, they would probably have not had it in the last 6 years. Also many Main Crew probably have not had management experience - or a year at all.
Future Talent is not really an option for most Main Crew because it would mean a rather large salary drop. £11,000 - £12,000 plus £2.40 (was it £2.60 I heard somewhere??) for a year whilst on the programme - and there is no guarantee of CSM at the end - wouldn't be SO bad if you could get back to Eurofleet/Worldwide at the end of it! Is it an offer to try and get as many hopefuly Main Crew over?
BA have made a mistake with this. CSM is essentially a CSD/PSR role. OK so there will be some management on the ground and some training - but we recruit Line Trainers who haven't had any training experience. CSD/PSRs with no management experience. What do they get? A training course.
I know BA are saying there will be promotions on current fleets - but especially on Worldwide they have been limited for years and with less PSR positions, and a gradually shrinking fleet - how many promotion campaigns will there be.
I know this may seem trivial to lots of other workers. But many (most!) loyal BA crew are NOT dead wood like some suggest. I appreciate that is probably why you can't just transfer to MFH based on seniority like other fleets but to say the restrictive requirements for CSM are to sort out the dead wood will be offensive to the many BA crew who are passionate. Promotion is NOT a god given right, granted, but I do think for many of us dedicated and want more responsibility promotion is not an unreasonable thing to expect in the future!
Anyway this is my opinions.... I backed BA and do believe strikes are not going to/haven't achieved anything. But I don't believe this latest offer is very good either. And not just because of the above reasons! I am suspicious of our protections on Current Fleets now.
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SlideBustle - "I am suspicious of our protections on Current Fleets now."
IMHO those who don't sign up to the new offer would be right to worry. The new offer seems to protect for a couple of years anyway. That's better than most of us can expect these days.
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Why are the company recruiting 1250 suddenly? Do they assume that they'll lose that many existing employees who won't sign to the new contract?
If you take that 1250 and assume that we're staff on a x5 factor to allow for rest, days off, holiday, recurrent training, maternity leave, illness etc which is probably more like x6. And then assume there are 15 crew on each jumbo that only gives 16 jumbos that could be staffed by NF each day.
Are NF to be integrated into the mix or will there be effectively a glass partition and routes will be split between fleets?
When the company says that;
If you take that 1250 and assume that we're staff on a x5 factor to allow for rest, days off, holiday, recurrent training, maternity leave, illness etc which is probably more like x6. And then assume there are 15 crew on each jumbo that only gives 16 jumbos that could be staffed by NF each day.
Are NF to be integrated into the mix or will there be effectively a glass partition and routes will be split between fleets?
When the company says that;
- a proposal to increase staffing levels on some flights, funded by a reduction in crew allowances, has been withdrawn.
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VSOP Fables,
True there are never any guarantees in any job especially with the recession.
I also would be worried about any further strikes making future offers worse. Why couldn't we have just accepted last years offer witn NO NEW FLEET AT ALL!!!
Oh yes, I forgot BASSA didn't put it to all their members! DOH!
True there are never any guarantees in any job especially with the recession.
I also would be worried about any further strikes making future offers worse. Why couldn't we have just accepted last years offer witn NO NEW FLEET AT ALL!!!
Oh yes, I forgot BASSA didn't put it to all their members! DOH!
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New fleet salary
Could I point out that the new starter rate is not that different than the bottom of the new starter scales in cBA/reservations.
However, their money is for a 5 day 37.5 hour week and a year of around 220 days.
I know I'm not comparing apples by comparing ground staff and flying staff but IMHO the new fleet salary will be a pretty good deal to some.
DW
However, their money is for a 5 day 37.5 hour week and a year of around 220 days.
I know I'm not comparing apples by comparing ground staff and flying staff but IMHO the new fleet salary will be a pretty good deal to some.
DW
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First. All New Fleet is going to be 777 and airbus at first.
Second. BA are planning to offer part-time to lots of current crew.
Third. Crew are retiring all the time. Temps are currently being used as we are actually under-crewed at the moment.
When new fleet starts it will get bigger slowly and then come the summer when the schedual expands it will grow to acomodate all 1250 crew.
I have heard at work that already the Copenhagen and Amsterdam night-stops have been removed from the August Eurofleet bid programme. I don't know but maybe they are being used as trainning flights. Anyway thats just rumour not fact.
Second. BA are planning to offer part-time to lots of current crew.
Third. Crew are retiring all the time. Temps are currently being used as we are actually under-crewed at the moment.
When new fleet starts it will get bigger slowly and then come the summer when the schedual expands it will grow to acomodate all 1250 crew.
I have heard at work that already the Copenhagen and Amsterdam night-stops have been removed from the August Eurofleet bid programme. I don't know but maybe they are being used as trainning flights. Anyway thats just rumour not fact.