British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[LD12986]

I don't think the company needs to change its name or its livery and the brand identity was "refreshed" only a couple of years ago. I think the money would be better spent investing in the product rather than a rebranding. Also, the Ibera merger and AA TATL JV should help drive revenues going forward.

That said, when this is over for good, there does need to be something big to make people forget about the strikes. Something like a repeat of the post Gulf War "The World's Biggest Offer".

Much like Cadbury did with the drumming gorilla ad campaign after the salmonella outbreak. I'm not suggesting an exact replica of the Cadbury campaign (!), but the point is the campaign created a lot of noise and helped the company recover.

Big brands can recover from crises like these. Just like Cadbury did and just like BP will from its current troubles.

[Spanner in the works]

All this marketing guff is so up it's own backside it isn't true.

As said above - a big campaign with cheap offers - big advertising showing the route network. Run it long enough - job done.

We (public) have very short memories as long as the product is value for money.
Be it Electricity, Broadband, Asda special deals or Airline seats.

[pcf]

contractual to work

This is the point of interest. I don't believe there is anything in the existing cabin crew contracts which say they must fly. Provided they receive their basic pay, in the eyes of their contracts they are not being discriminated against. They are required to be "available" or to do "standby" on occasion but I would be surprised if there was anything contractual which stated how often this was permitted.

I await with interest....

Today, 18:30
I dont believe there is - EF CSD's have been left with very little work - many blocks filled with 5/6 days of AV and not used in the past 18 months. many of us have been just on basic pay

[Tiramisu]

Posted by Pcf
Today, 18:30
I dont believe there is - EF CSD's have been left with very little work - many blocks filled with 5/6 days of AV and not used in the past 18 months. many of us have been just on basic pay

Hi Pcf,
Curious to know where you got that last bit from. Are you referring to CSDs who were on strike? I must stress that BA will not discriminate and if trips are available, they will be scheduled accordingly. However, as a non-striking CSD, my roster is full of work and has improved massively since January this year.
If you are referring to 2009, yes then you are right, we weren't utilised effectively.
However since the removal of the Purser from the 767 last December, I have a steady stream of work. It also helps if you are prepared to do Moscows, Athens and Istanbuls which aren't always the popular trips. I tend to do my fair share of these destinations on the 767 and have a varied ammount of work to keep me flying.

[pcf]

work/trips contractual

no tiri not just striking crew-
my point was that a previous poster suggested that we had a right to trips - and the point i am making - NO, .. not necessarily- whilst things have now improved CSD's in EF didnt have much work in 09 and there was very little the BASSA could do for us therefore only our basic pay is contractual.

[Fabio747]

Staff travel and discrimination

I had been reading this thread for a while with a lot of interest, this is my first post.

I would like to point out that according to ART 28 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU, strike is a RIGHT! I do not see how a European Corporation like BA can include in a hypothetical new contract a no-strike clause, as stated previously in this forum.

About staff travel, yes I was informed by BA of the loss of ST for participating to a legal strike but according to the International Labour Organization, a United Nations agency:

• No one should be penalized for carrying out or attempting to
carry out a legitimate strike (ibid., para. 590);

Yes, staff travel might not be contractual but removing this benefit which is enjoyed by ALL BA employee ONLY to striking cabin crew is a clear discriminatory act.
The main reason why most of my colleagues went to work was not to keep the flag flying but to KEEP the STAFF TRAVEL. As the company well knows, the majority of us use ST not to go on exotic holidays but as a mean of transportation to go to work: I call this blackmailing.

It will probably take a few years, but we will fight this injustice up to the European Court of Justice. Meanwhile Easyjet and Ryanair, although not flexible are quite cheap....
According to Mr Walsh, striking cabin crew are not loyal employees and do not deserve this benefit enjoyed by every single BA employee: never mind years of no sickness, no lateness, professionalism, passion about this beautiful profession, letters of compliments from passengers (and I am talking for the majority of my colleagues who joined me on the strike).
BA used to be a lovely place to work: unfortunately the culture had been dramatically changed from the top. I only see fear of expressing opinions, suspects, divisions... Divide et impera (divide and conquer ).

PS Sorry for the syntactic mistakes but English is not my first language.

[MissM]

That is what most of us have been saying for a long time. To withdraw staff travel concessions for those taking part in industrial action is discriminatory.

I'm extremly proud for having taking part in this strike. There has been some really great support from the public on the picket lines, open-top buses and marches down Bath Road. The last march to Waterside was a great ending and the turnout of crew was amazing.

I do hope this dispute will come to an end soon. But, with WW's stubborness I'm not too optimistic of it. Unfortunately, I have to say: Bring on the next ballot!

[Tiramisu]

Posted by Fabio747
The main reason why most of my colleagues went to work was not to keep the flag flying but to KEEP the STAFF TRAVEL.

Fabio,
Not true. That is not the reason why I went to work. It was simply the wrong fight as many of us have said here repeatedly. BA had spent over a year trying to negotiate and BASSA simply failed to engage in an adult manner.

For what it's worth, I have 26 years seniority and last year, I did not use staff travel once. As a result, both my two free J Class tickets lapsed. On occasion when I have used them in the past even when confirmed in J Class, I have been downgraded prior to boarding which shows that seniority doesn't make that much difference except for the onload priority. So Staff Travel does not make that much of a difference to me and isn't the reason to come to work in my case.
I worked to keep the flag flying, and to serve our customers.

[Chigley]

Fabio747:

BA used to be a lovely place to work: unfortunately the culture had been dramatically changed from the top. I only see fear of expressing opinions, suspects, divisions... Divide et impera (divide and conquer ).

BA is still a great place to work, the culture has not changed it's just that emotions are running very high at the moment. The people which make this job are still the same we just have very different opinions on this dispute and back different 'teams'. If we can just respect each others views and get on with the job we are paid to do, then these fears and divisions should go away? Maybe I'm just being too optimistic?

[report call sign]

The reason why MOST of the crew went to work was NOT to keep staff travel, but to KEEP their mortgages paid, food on the table and clothes on their backs!
Oh, and some may have decided to go to work because they can see through the retric, rubbish and spin that seems to be coming endlessly from the depths of the BASSA camp, that is getting more and more predictable and desperate by the day!
lets get real here!!!!!

[Tiramisu]

Posted by report call sign
The reason why MOST of the crew went to work was NOT to keep staff travel, but to KEEP their mortgages paid, food on the table and clothes on their backs!

All the above as well in my case too, report call sign.

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by Fabio747

I would like to point out that according to ART 28 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU, strike is a RIGHT!

Not in the UK.

[exeng]

Fabio747

The main reason why most of my colleagues went to work was not to keep the flag flying but to KEEP the STAFF TRAVEL.

Fabio most cabin crew use their car or the big red 90B to get to work.

According to Mr Walsh, striking cabin crew are not loyal employees and do not deserve this benefit enjoyed by every single BA employee

Correct. Striking employees have been singled out and will have their staff travel privileges removed - for ever.

I call this blackmailing.

I call this a common sense reaction to the actions of a minority of militants.

never mind years of no sickness, no lateness, professionalism, passion about this beautiful profession, letters of compliments from passengers (and I am talking for the majority of my colleagues who joined me on the strike).

Pray tell me how you have gained access to the details of the sickness records etc of your fellow Cabin Crew.

This beautiful profession my **** - the party is over Fabio.


Regards
Exeng

[Chesh01]

Worries about going to work?

I just want to remind crew that the mind can play tricks on you. In other words any fears about the working enviroment is often what we build up in our minds.

Be on time, adhere to uniform and SEP standards and be nice to everyone and you will be fine whatever side of the fence you are on.
Behaviour breeds behaviour so either you will join their mood or you can bring them into your positive mindset.

We can only react to what will happen, not dictate it. So whilst Unite ponder their next move and Willie prepares the response lets focus on working together and looking after our customers.

Having said that, ZERO TOLERANCE TO ANY BULLYING.

[ranger07]

MissM

I do hope this dispute will come to an end soon. But, with WW's stubborness I'm not too optimistic of it. Unfortunately, I have to say: Bring on the next ballot!

Bring it on indeed. More ground staff are in the process of being trained for vcc, I really think you under estimate the determination of the vast majority of staff, most of whom have taken the hit and only want a future for this airline and refuse to allow a minority to hold us to ransom. No more!

Your previous posts and their expressive contents, lead me to repeat this question. Why do you work for BA?

[Chigley]

MissM:

The simple truth is there is little or no support from the general public, BA's customers or in fact the workforce within BA. Even the other union's do not support BASSA or show any solidarity. Why do you think that is?

Simple fact is this dispute is about greed and spite. Greed because this minority of militants cannot and will not accept change, because they think they can stamp their feet and make unrealistic demands. And spite because they are claiming they work for a 'bully' and living in a 'climate of fear' just because he dares to stand up to them! Why do the other 30,000 plus employees not share this view?

The militants selfish and reckless behaviour has brought shame on a great British company, and that MissM is what the general feeling is towards this strike - stop believing the BASSA spin and wake up before it's too late! Nobody is impressed with BASSA's petulant behaviour, trying to hold their employer to ransom. If this minority hate BA so much they have a choice, to do us all a favour.........LEAVE!

[Betty girl]

I just want anyone who did strike to understand that all the crew, that I have worked with on eurofleet, went to work to support BA. We went to work because we did not believe a strike would do any good, it would not make any difference to any outcome, it would damage the company that pays our wages, because going to work is our job, because alot of us have lost total faith in Bassa. In my case that happened 22 years ago but I have now lost faith in my previously moderate union Amicus too.

What all of us wanted was a union that would negotiate for us. This has been going on for years. I spoke to Simon Talling Smith, over 5 years ago, about some of the changes BA were looking for and they were the same then. New disruption agreement, fixed links, Pursers in charge on eurofleet. ( Inserdently CSD's already there would have remained) Bassa have represented us very badly and that is why the majority on eurofleet and 50% of longhaul crew came to work.

It is Bassa that have caused New Fleet because of their inability to negatiate about anything. They seem unable to even agree to do hot towels in WT plus !!!! Something that would take all of 5 mins to do. They are the cause of New Fleet because they have been so intransegent in what they do. That is what most crew, who have worked, feel and that is why the vast majority of us worked, NOT FOR STAFF TRAVEL.

Just wanted to get that off my chest. I hope that makes my reasons for working, and many other eurofleet crews reasons, clearer.

Thanks.

[BlueUpGood]

BA used to be a lovely place to work: unfortunately the culture had been dramatically changed from the top. I only see fear of expressing opinions, suspects, divisions... Divide et impera (divide and conquer ).

Hi Fabio,

welcome to the debate - it's always good to hear a new opinion. Can I offer you another perspective on all of this? If one listens to what BASSA has to say, then the CC have been bullied, harassed, victimised, etc etc. Fabio, can you give evidence of your mistreatment? I accept your argument that withdrawing staff travel can be seen as singling out those who chose to strike, and I think it is reasonable to want to contest this. However that is the nature of industrial disputes, and BASSA would have been more responsible if they had warned you of the realities, rather than tell you BA can't do it. They can, and they have, and that part of the dispute will run it's course. But bullying? Harassment? I see no evidence of it on the part of BA. Indeed I would suggest BA have been immensely patient, whilst BASSA have frankly prevaricated and denied reality , and in the process done you and your colleagues a huge disservice.

It is clearly stated in your contract of employment that contact with the media must have the approval of BA. It's the same in every PLC across the land. That doesn't mean BA are trying to harass or gag you, and before the dispute did anyone give that clause in your contract a second thought? No, but BASSA are trying to subvert BA in every way possible, and frankly their claims don't add up.

Fabio, you may have read about some unfortunate comments by BA pilots in the papers. They are now suspended, and are in the disciplinary process that is clearly set out in BA's employment guidlines. There are also CC members in the same process, for other misdemeanors, some with a criminal investigation likely to follow. Are the BA pilots being bullied too? Can you explain why it is ok for UNITE to demand the cases against CC be dropped, but not those against the pilots? Can you tell me why UNITE don't want to follow the disciplinary process that they themselves signed up to before this dispute? Why was it ok a couple of years ago, but not now? Disciplinaries have been taking place for years, over all sorts of allegations. The vast majority find no case to answer, or a chat with a manager for a minor indiscretion. If you push your luck and bring the company into disrepute, or are willfully negligent, then you could be sacked, but the process has been deemed to be fair by UNITE.

I assume you have been absent from work on strike days Fabio. I'd like to tell you this, and I mean it with all sincerity, and without bias.. I have talked to many crew who also exercised their democratic right - the right not to go on strike. They are all concerned, some are terrified of the strikers. They are receiving threats of damage to cars, revelations of private matters to partners, exclusion onboard and down route, having their meals tampered with, being called scum and scab etc etc. THIS IS bullying and harassment. THIS IS against BA policy, and SHOULD be the subject of disciplinary action against the perpetrators.

Fabio if you want fairness, could I ask you to consider this. Every other department in BA has made a significant contribution to the undeniable crisis the company is in. Staff across the airline have changed working practices, taken pay cuts, lost T&C's etc. Permanently. Period. BASSA will tell you otherwise, but it's undeniable fact, and if you are in doubt, then why not ask a TRC how their life has changed in the last few years. Or a CSA. Or (heaven forbid) a pilot, or tug driver, bus driver, manager (those that are still here) etc. They will ALL tell you of significant change. Unfortunately the CC (or should I say BASSA) think they are a special case, and this doesn't apply to them, and instead of making small changes that could have been satisfactory to everyone, they have instead cost the company £120m, destroyed our reputation, driven customers away, and caused great upheaval and further loss of earnings to all those who have already given their share to get BA on track again. Is that fair?

Finally, I would ask you consider this. BA is one of the most unionized businesses in the country. Every department is strongly represented, mostly by UNITE. I find it extraordinary that BASSA's actions have been willfully undermined by staff from across the airline. Not just pilots, as BASSA and UNITE love to claim, but by UNITE members.. in their thousands. Fabio can you explain why? Willie Walsh can't MAKE these union oriented individuals volunteer. They have decided to do it themselves. To subvert industrial action by members of their own union. Why Fabio? May I suggest it is because they see BASSA's expectations as way beyond reasonable? Because they recognize the plight of the company, and have done their bit? Because they don't want to see BASSA hold a gun to BA's head for ever and a day? Because, like Willie Walsh, the board of directors, the shareholders (who stated their support of WW today), and believe it or not many of our passengers, they want to ensure that BASSA don't get away with stamping their feet, and getting their own way yet again. It's far too serious for ego-centric selfish protectionism.

Fabio, as you are a first time poster here I hope I haven't been too harsh or dogmatic in my comments. I hope to show you another point of view from that repeated endlessly by BASSA. I would strongly urge any genuine ordinary CC member who has put their trust in BASSA to find out for themselves the truth of the situation. Ask questions of others. Be open to another point of view. Pause to consider why events have played out as they have. If at the end of the process you still stand with BASSA then fair enough.

[4468]

MissM says "Bring on the next ballot", and she will be far from alone in that view.

On the other hand, BA have stated they will operate 100% of the LH operation through any further IA. It is now common knowledge that arrangements are in place at Cranebank to commence a very significant number of new courses for 'new entrants'. Announcement imminent.

All this made me think of the following:

God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
Courage to change the things I can;
And wisdom to know the difference.

I imagine we might disagree on the rights or wrongs of the dispute, but wouldn't you have to be 'hard of thinking' to ignore what is becoming increasingly obvious?

[Right Engine]

MissM

Hi Miss M,

I appreciate your point, that "removing staff stravel from striking crew is discriminatory". The way I read your comment is that it is only over this detail that you're striking. If I was WW I would find it very hard to trust in this belief because the reasons for the strike seem to change with the tides. One week it is imposition, the next it is New Fleet, the next it is Staff Travel.

BASSA and it's striking members have no perceivable continuity in their beliefs. To everyone outside the confines of Bedfont Football Club you frankly cannot be trusted because if Willie was to return your travel concessions you would most likely renege on your promises and we would be back to square one with a different set of 'reasons'.

Negotiations started in March 09 and despite continued and implicit threats that if you strike, your ST would be removed, you did.

It's over. BASSA tried everyone's patience for too long. I'd advise you to attempt at a bit of humility and humbly return to your role. This is not a threat, but if you don't heed that advice your future outside of BA is without doubt, a poorer one.