British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Diplome
That is such a nice post. It is really nice to see someone acknowlage all us crew who have worked during this strike.
I do not need anyone to thank me because I am only doing the job I have been paid to do but some people, who post on this site, actually sound like they hate all crew, strikers or non-strikers. It is hard coming into work, more so on non-strike days because alot of the strikers are very vocal and being branded as a scab is not nice, as many flight crew know too.
I think we will all be getting letters soon giving us 90 days to sign. I think the offer will be like the last one Mr.Walsh made. If crew dont sign they will get replaced with new crew on new fleet.
I am worried for the future because the hatred of some will go on for a long time. What ever happens it is going to be very hard for all of us. However thoes like me who have worked will be hated by both Strikers and alot of flight crew by the sounds of some of these posts.
Anyway thank you for your nice post.
That is such a nice post. It is really nice to see someone acknowlage all us crew who have worked during this strike.
I do not need anyone to thank me because I am only doing the job I have been paid to do but some people, who post on this site, actually sound like they hate all crew, strikers or non-strikers. It is hard coming into work, more so on non-strike days because alot of the strikers are very vocal and being branded as a scab is not nice, as many flight crew know too.
I think we will all be getting letters soon giving us 90 days to sign. I think the offer will be like the last one Mr.Walsh made. If crew dont sign they will get replaced with new crew on new fleet.
I am worried for the future because the hatred of some will go on for a long time. What ever happens it is going to be very hard for all of us. However thoes like me who have worked will be hated by both Strikers and alot of flight crew by the sounds of some of these posts.
Anyway thank you for your nice post.
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Diplome, Why did you delete your post. It was a good post and you did not say anything bad. It was so good to hear a reasoned person. Thanks anyway. Maybe you could post it again.
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Posted by Boondocker
Was this proposal for real? Did BF explain to the crew community that shares/tickets etc had been proposed but BASSA turned it down. Please point me in the right direction as I don't recall.
Was this proposal for real? Did BF explain to the crew community that shares/tickets etc had been proposed but BASSA turned it down. Please point me in the right direction as I don't recall.
Regardless, it's too late. I vaguely remember seeing it but I think I may have deleted it from my inbox. The question is how we move on from here Boondocker and sadly where and how we end up.
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Part-timers
Runway vacated wrote:
I was once told by a cabin crew manager that BA wasn't keen to recruit part-timers as they have a higher sickness rate than full-timers.
I know that many people claim that part timers have a lower sickness rate than anyone else (which is not saying much, frankly!) and are therefore more "loyal" than others, but I am not so sure.
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Tiramisu, I wasn't making a point. I wanted to know the answer to a question.
If this supposed proposal, that would have avoided NF and placed us all in such nirvana, existed then I would have expected BF to have been banging a big drum about it. I don't recall such noises.
Where and how we end up as you put it is indeed the immediate question.
However, discussion still continues down route about how we arrived at this point and including this so-called missed opportunity in conversations would help others understand. If that's one less person on strike then the source of flying nunn's information is important to me if not you.
If this supposed proposal, that would have avoided NF and placed us all in such nirvana, existed then I would have expected BF to have been banging a big drum about it. I don't recall such noises.
Where and how we end up as you put it is indeed the immediate question.
However, discussion still continues down route about how we arrived at this point and including this so-called missed opportunity in conversations would help others understand. If that's one less person on strike then the source of flying nunn's information is important to me if not you.
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I remember seeing an offer like the one Flying Nun is talking about. It was the offer before the one Derek Simpson nearly accepted before Christmas. It is in my ESS somwhere I will try and find it.
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Bettygirl
You wrote
I have done 3 flights during the present strikes and the cabin crew who turned up were an absolute pleasure to work with.
As flight crew I can honestly say I have nothing but admiration for the cabin crew that have turned up for my flights.
In the future you will fly with more non-strikers than strikers.
I don't see hatred for cabin crew from the pilots on this website. I share the anger that pilots have towards the strikers at the way they hold the company to ransom at a time when the company is in a non profitable state.
You wrote
However thoes like me who have worked will be hated by both Strikers and a lot of flight crew
As flight crew I can honestly say I have nothing but admiration for the cabin crew that have turned up for my flights.
In the future you will fly with more non-strikers than strikers.
I don't see hatred for cabin crew from the pilots on this website. I share the anger that pilots have towards the strikers at the way they hold the company to ransom at a time when the company is in a non profitable state.
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Boondocker,
My sincere apologies, I misunderstood you. I have tried to search through my emails and ESS was temporarily down. The information is equally important to me, too. If I find it, I'll pm it to you.
Betty girl,
Thanks. I hope you have better luck than me.
My sincere apologies, I misunderstood you. I have tried to search through my emails and ESS was temporarily down. The information is equally important to me, too. If I find it, I'll pm it to you.
Betty girl,
Thanks. I hope you have better luck than me.
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Yes I remember the offer too. It was the "New Fleet is Dead (oh no it's not) Offer".
BA pushed the "Destroy BASSA button" long before this. The offer looking back was good compared to todays. I certainly thought intergrating new crew into current fleets was better as you could avoid BA cherry picking routes for New Fleet, which was always the/a "big issue" (plus promotion prospects).
BA knew that as good as it was, BASSA would say no. So it didn't really matter how good it was (as long as it was worse than what BASSA wanted). Such was/is the predictablity of the union (or to be precise it's negotiating team). BA had their next steps planned months in advance. all the needed to do was move the goalposts slightly everytime, sighting changes in economic conditions blah blah etc etc.
The only time the union did wrong foot was BA the Xmas strike (that no one wanted). No strike busting VCCs etc etc (the plan was already hatched but not implemented). But BA paid some lip service, avoided the strike, and got back on track.
Which leads us neatly to this sunny day......
BA pushed the "Destroy BASSA button" long before this. The offer looking back was good compared to todays. I certainly thought intergrating new crew into current fleets was better as you could avoid BA cherry picking routes for New Fleet, which was always the/a "big issue" (plus promotion prospects).
BA knew that as good as it was, BASSA would say no. So it didn't really matter how good it was (as long as it was worse than what BASSA wanted). Such was/is the predictablity of the union (or to be precise it's negotiating team). BA had their next steps planned months in advance. all the needed to do was move the goalposts slightly everytime, sighting changes in economic conditions blah blah etc etc.
The only time the union did wrong foot was BA the Xmas strike (that no one wanted). No strike busting VCCs etc etc (the plan was already hatched but not implemented). But BA paid some lip service, avoided the strike, and got back on track.
Which leads us neatly to this sunny day......
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Thanks Suninmyeyes,
I have done lots of flights also and you are right all the pilots have been lovely and very protective of us crew.
It will of course be harder when there is no strikes going on because they will not know if I was a striker or not. It will be hard to talk about it openly as we can now. I have had pilots during the non strike days being a bit frosty untill I droped it into the conversation that I was not a striker.
I know that most pilots as you say will be supportive to non striking crew but some posts do talk about crew as if we are all overpaid and lazy etc. etc. and for those of us who have worked it is upsetting.
I did not ask BA to pay me what they do. I accepted this job 22 years ago but of course I have a mortgage based on my earnings etc.
I can see that things need to be altered and I feel that the offers made have been fine. That is why I am working.
If I was sent an offer similar to the one that Bassa turned down I would sign it, but some people seem to want us all to be put on the new fleet rate which obviously would be impossible for us.
Thank you once again.
I have done lots of flights also and you are right all the pilots have been lovely and very protective of us crew.
It will of course be harder when there is no strikes going on because they will not know if I was a striker or not. It will be hard to talk about it openly as we can now. I have had pilots during the non strike days being a bit frosty untill I droped it into the conversation that I was not a striker.
I know that most pilots as you say will be supportive to non striking crew but some posts do talk about crew as if we are all overpaid and lazy etc. etc. and for those of us who have worked it is upsetting.
I did not ask BA to pay me what they do. I accepted this job 22 years ago but of course I have a mortgage based on my earnings etc.
I can see that things need to be altered and I feel that the offers made have been fine. That is why I am working.
If I was sent an offer similar to the one that Bassa turned down I would sign it, but some people seem to want us all to be put on the new fleet rate which obviously would be impossible for us.
Thank you once again.
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BA knew that as good as it was, BASSA would say no.
How can BA ever make any offer , or negotiate in an intelligent manner, with a group of people who :
a, Don't actually know what they want
b. Will never agree to it anyway
........................................................
Can the Bassa strikers ever operate onboard as a team again?
Even now the venom on the Bassa site is beyond belief.
That strikers can come on this site and make accusations about malicious postings on here is too hypocritical for words.
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If it helps some of the historical offers are here BA vs Cabin Crew: Who’s The Weakest Link? - The Source - WSJ
WLITS, you wrote:
Nope, I think you'll find it was BASSA themselves that did that, pushing their own self-destruct button. BA just had to stand back and let them do it. 
You even alluded to it here:
And anything BA said was going to be worse than what BASSA wanted - absolutely anything! Unless BA offered BASSA the 'keys to the Kingdom', BASSA were always going to stomp and hissy-fit! 
BA pushed the "Destroy BASSA button" long before this.
You even alluded to it here:
BA knew that as good as it was, BASSA would say no. So it didn't really matter how good it was (as long as it was worse than what BASSA wanted).
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Abbey Road.
Hmmmm....you may be partially correct. If we're splitting hairs, I'd say it been a case of BA holding the door open and BASSA walking through it.
Neither side are "innocent" in this mess. It just BA are playing a calculated corporate game (not the touchy feely one we've all been used to) with the help of their American consultants (as history has shown they have had no idea how to do it on their own in the past). BASSA have stayed true to form, and susequently walked into BA's carefully laid out plan.
BA have done what a company looking to effect change to a "heavily unionised workforce resistant to change" (BA's words not mine) should do in this situation.
BASSA have done what a group of hardline millitants are expected to do in this situation.
Trade unionism needs to get into the 21st century. The Arthur Scargill style does not fit in with the modern day corporate culture. The BA suits can't deal with them face to face...true. So they get in a bunch of consultants who tell them how to remove them from the equation totally.
It's all politics at the end of the day. Notice Len McKlusky (the figurehead at one point) has vanished? I have. What's happened there eh?
I've actually seen more of Brian Boyd on the TV (McKlusky's opponent for the Gen Sec position) recently.
Boyd is more of a politician than McKlusky. A far better man to have been able to deal with this kind of situation and corporate game play.
Unfortunately Boyd is Amicus, so BASSA's favoured candidate (and of course "leader" of this whole mess) is McKlusky (TGWU).
There are other things going on here. Don't forget that.
Hmmmm....you may be partially correct. If we're splitting hairs, I'd say it been a case of BA holding the door open and BASSA walking through it.
Neither side are "innocent" in this mess. It just BA are playing a calculated corporate game (not the touchy feely one we've all been used to) with the help of their American consultants (as history has shown they have had no idea how to do it on their own in the past). BASSA have stayed true to form, and susequently walked into BA's carefully laid out plan.
BA have done what a company looking to effect change to a "heavily unionised workforce resistant to change" (BA's words not mine) should do in this situation.
BASSA have done what a group of hardline millitants are expected to do in this situation.
Trade unionism needs to get into the 21st century. The Arthur Scargill style does not fit in with the modern day corporate culture. The BA suits can't deal with them face to face...true. So they get in a bunch of consultants who tell them how to remove them from the equation totally.
It's all politics at the end of the day. Notice Len McKlusky (the figurehead at one point) has vanished? I have. What's happened there eh?
I've actually seen more of Brian Boyd on the TV (McKlusky's opponent for the Gen Sec position) recently.
Boyd is more of a politician than McKlusky. A far better man to have been able to deal with this kind of situation and corporate game play.
Unfortunately Boyd is Amicus, so BASSA's favoured candidate (and of course "leader" of this whole mess) is McKlusky (TGWU).
There are other things going on here. Don't forget that.
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working on a breather day
Just came back from a there and back...
entering the crc you could notice the difference... Grumpy, tanned strikers with stand by lanyards talking in small groups, all with silly bassa lanyards... Unfortunately on my flight I was the sole non striker... Needless to say I was isolated. They were spitting poison like cobras... Everyone sees that this strike is meaningless apart from them. They are really passionate, brainwashed and act like hypnotised...
It saddened me when i saw a bunch of them, leaving for a double stand over... They left today, back on Monday... Forgive me guys but I would rather BA had rewarded a non striker with such a trip..
They all came back and did what was planned on their roster... Simple as that...Pure rudeness to customers, no one spoke to pilots... Crm... well non existent... not that it was ever BA's strongest point...
Now regarding to pilots attitude, well, most of them were really supportive... I just had one occasion from one, that wouldn't acknowledge me,pretending he was on his phone when I popped in to say hi (and this was during the strike days). Then on the way to our hotel, he stated that, no matter if we were strikers or not, he considers all of us- as cabin crew community, responsible for the disastrous effect that this strike has had for BA...
As it was a really isolated issue, I will not comment...
entering the crc you could notice the difference... Grumpy, tanned strikers with stand by lanyards talking in small groups, all with silly bassa lanyards... Unfortunately on my flight I was the sole non striker... Needless to say I was isolated. They were spitting poison like cobras... Everyone sees that this strike is meaningless apart from them. They are really passionate, brainwashed and act like hypnotised...
It saddened me when i saw a bunch of them, leaving for a double stand over... They left today, back on Monday... Forgive me guys but I would rather BA had rewarded a non striker with such a trip..
They all came back and did what was planned on their roster... Simple as that...Pure rudeness to customers, no one spoke to pilots... Crm... well non existent... not that it was ever BA's strongest point...
Now regarding to pilots attitude, well, most of them were really supportive... I just had one occasion from one, that wouldn't acknowledge me,pretending he was on his phone when I popped in to say hi (and this was during the strike days). Then on the way to our hotel, he stated that, no matter if we were strikers or not, he considers all of us- as cabin crew community, responsible for the disastrous effect that this strike has had for BA...
As it was a really isolated issue, I will not comment...
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Was this proposal for real? Did BF explain to the crew community that shares/tickets etc had been proposed but BASSA turned it down. Please point me in the right direction as I don't recall.
It was most definitely for real. It was the proposal put forward to Unite on 19 October 2009. BF emailed it to us on 23 Oct 09. If you want a copy I can pm it to you.
Amongst other things, it included:
Additional 100% staff bookable concession based on company performance 2009/10
Company performance share scheme 2010-2013
A commitment to avoid compulsory redundancies
And all in exchange for....working to the crewing levels that we have been working to since November!
Sadly, it is buried deep in the archives now.....Cheers BASSA.
I am BA cabincrew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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Morning!
I have posted quite a few things on here in the past week and by now it is quite clear that I did take Industrial action, but I have always mentioned that at the end of this waves of strike,I might have to re-consider my position.
I do not believe the numbers of the union and I never believed the numbers of BA.
Lately,there were posts on here stating that BA as a company couldn't make numbers up. If that was the case,then most people according to our management went in as the percentages were very high.
This is clearly not the case according to the following operation for today:
Therefore, out of 256 flights :
153 are being operated by BA = 59.7 %
13 are being operated by other carriers = 5.1 %
90 are cancelled = 35.2 %
153 flights departing
90 canx
BA has stated it will fly 80% of LH and 60% of SH..that makes a rough 70% estimate with the 2 combined. Why is it hardly 55% ?? I trust the information on this site and I most definetely remember a post where somebody stated" BA AS A PLC CAN'T LIE BY LAW ABOUT THE NUMBERS".
Anybody has some suggestions?
I have posted quite a few things on here in the past week and by now it is quite clear that I did take Industrial action, but I have always mentioned that at the end of this waves of strike,I might have to re-consider my position.
I do not believe the numbers of the union and I never believed the numbers of BA.
Lately,there were posts on here stating that BA as a company couldn't make numbers up. If that was the case,then most people according to our management went in as the percentages were very high.
This is clearly not the case according to the following operation for today:
Therefore, out of 256 flights :
153 are being operated by BA = 59.7 %
13 are being operated by other carriers = 5.1 %
90 are cancelled = 35.2 %
153 flights departing
90 canx
BA has stated it will fly 80% of LH and 60% of SH..that makes a rough 70% estimate with the 2 combined. Why is it hardly 55% ?? I trust the information on this site and I most definetely remember a post where somebody stated" BA AS A PLC CAN'T LIE BY LAW ABOUT THE NUMBERS".
Anybody has some suggestions?